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Romund Viking
Saturday, October 4th, 2003, 11:44 PM
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Hei,

Im very excited to have stumbled upon this site. I have been studying physical anthropology for years, but until now, had known only nordish.com as a forum for Nordish Physical Anthropology.

I may be alone on this, but I believe it to be difficult to classify oneself racially. I was born in Molde, Møre og Romsdal, Norway. My family has been in this district of Norway since time immemorial. Im rather tall (6'2") slim (160lbs) and have exceedingly pale, freckled skin that does not tan, brown hair and green eyes, and large feet and hands. The cranial vault is rather high, the occiput strongly curved and protruding and the browridges rather strong. I am enclosing the only photo that I have of myself online (it's a little funny.) I suspect that I am a Trønder-Hallstatt mix, which for some unknown reason has favored a darker strain of pigmentation than is normally Scandinavian, although there are conflicting reports of a small, Paleo-Atlantid community on the Norwegian west coast -- perhaps this has something to do with my pigmentation.

Thank you again for this forum and your imput. I look forward to your replies.

Takk,

Romund Viking

Loki
Saturday, October 4th, 2003, 11:50 PM
Hello Romund Viking,

I'm glad you found us, and hope your stay with us will be pleasant and fulfilling. Very welcome!

We have a sort of informal "panel" here of people who like to classify others, lol. Some opinions are on the spot, and others a little further out. But take that which you feel hits closest to home. :)

Our friend volksdeutsche specialises in Scandinavian typology, and he may be of help here. To be honest, I think your picture is not indicative enough for a proper classification. A colour picture would have been better, as well as a larger one. I am not going to make a guess at this stage, since I am in a bit of a rush.

Kind regards

Loki

Polak
Sunday, October 5th, 2003, 04:03 PM
Hello!

Yes, you do certainly have some Nordid in you. Though it doesn't jump out too much because of the pigmentation.

You have a fairly long face, but your cheekbones are quite noticeable as well. The face is quite broad.

The nose is Nordid, so is the jaw. Forehead and head possibly as well, but maybe too rounded for a pure Nord.

The eyes are not Nordid. They seem Mediterranean to me.

Ok, so what we've got here is a right old mix. I would say a UP/Nordid/Med mix.

The UP is probably Borreby, though I could be wrong there.

Regards








[FONT=Verdana]

Hei,

Im very excited to have stumbled upon this site. I have been studying physical anthropology for years, but until now, had known only nordish.com as a forum for Nordish Physical Anthropology.

I may be alone on this, but I believe it to be difficult to classify oneself racially. I was born in Molde, Møre og Romsdal, Norway. My family has been in this district of Norway since time immemorial. Im rather tall (6'2") slim (160lbs) and have exceedingly pale, freckled skin that does not tan, brown hair and green eyes, and large feet and hands. The cranial vault is rather high, the occiput strongly curved and protruding and the browridges rather strong. I am enclosing the only photo that I have of myself online (it's a little funny.) I suspect that I am a Trønder-Hallstatt mix, which for some unknown reason has favored a darker strain of pigmentation than is normally Scandinavian, although there are conflicting reports of a small, Paleo-Atlantid community on the Norwegian west coast -- perhaps this has something to do with my pigmentation.

Thank you again for this forum and your imput. I look forward to your replies.

Takk,

Romund Viking

cosmocreator
Sunday, October 5th, 2003, 07:42 PM
I don't see Tronder. From that picture I see Mediterranean.

Frans_Jozef
Sunday, October 5th, 2003, 09:36 PM
I don't see Tronder. From that picture I see Mediterranean.

Hallstatt, maybe mixed with some Valle type of Brunnid, by which a Med strain has re-appeared as some side-effect, an element known to have exist quite largely in Trondelagen but disappeared since the Middle Ages onwards.

Romund Viking
Sunday, October 5th, 2003, 10:02 PM
Thank you all for your kind replies. I believe that Frans' theory is the closest to the truth. Rufosity and freckling are very common among Brünns, unless I am mistaken, a trait which I have in spades (freckling at least.) I should like to add a few more bits of information: my CI is 77, eyes really green-gray combination, and the walls of the cranial vault are not really rounded at all; the transition from the front to the side of the cranial vault are abrupt and angular, not rounded as in Trønders or UPs. If it would be of assistance, I can post more photos, including ones of my father and his father (both of whom were 1.96m tall.)

A little off of the subject, but I believe it was Lundman who spoke of the Littoral (his Littoriden) race orignating in the near-east and spreading as far as Vestlandet, Norway. Could this be the genesis of any un-depigmented mediterraneans in Scandinavia? Does the Littoral race correspond to the Mesolithic / Long-Barrow mediterraneans mentioned by Coon?

Again, thanks to the creators of the site for this important, and unfortuneately, rare forum.

Glenlivet
Sunday, October 5th, 2003, 11:32 PM
The Races and Peoples of Europe (1977) by Bertil Lundman

The racial history of Europe: an outline

We also find some other old, eastern, round-skulled and high-skulled, dark strains, which are higher in the frequency of blood type gene q, in some of the coastal regions of West Europe. These strains are our Litorid race (See Map 18). They are approximately equivalent to Deniker's Litoral race. The coastal regions where these strains are found include:
the Swedish western coast, northwestern Jutland, the Dutch province of Zeeland, Kent in England, northeastern Scotland (where the frequency of blood type gene q reaches almost 10%), the Isle of Man, southwestern Ireland (Valentia), western Wales, Cornwall, and western France (Brittany, Gironde).

There is an especially strong concentration of Litorids in the old mining regions of southwestern Spain. ("Tharsis" on the Rio Tinto is only the ancient name of a modern mine). The Litorids are found deep into the interior of Spain and further east on the south coast around Cadiz and Malaga.

In the Mediterranean Sea region, however, we so strongly approach on the island of Malta and around Naples, Italy the present area of dispersal of the Armenid race that the question is no more of the same interest. Naturally, many descendants of later migrants from the Near East also dwell in the above-named areas.

Peake and Fleure, who dealt with these problems in their ten-volume series The Corridors of Time, explained these racial occurrences in terms of seekers of noble metals and also amber coming from the Near East. In part, these migrations took place in the very early Bronze Age. However, at that time the coastal region of the eastern Mediterranean Sea was inhabited almost only by low-skulled and long-skulled Arabids.

Round-skulled and high-skulled Armenids (no one has thought of Dinarids) had just reached the innermost northeastern corner of the Mediterranean Sea in greater number from the northeastern part of the Near East in the early Bronze Age. This may possibly give an indication that the Armenids brought the art of copper-mining with them to Cyprus from their old home. All this is extremely problematical. Still many of the existing occurrences of Litorid strains in outlying regions of western Europe are not at all explainable through eventual migrations in historical times.

We have previously discussed the similar ancestors of the Carpathids in eastern Central Europe, as well as the Bell-Beaker people of prehistory. These two groups with their almost exclusively inland distribution still were not identical with the Litorids whose forefathers almost always settled near seacoasts. It appears probable that all three groups were only different parts of a great early-metallic culture-stream from the northern Near East.

The Etruscans migrated to Tuscany in Italy from adjacent regions in the Near East on the threshhold of history. The Etruscans came to Europe with similar goals. They also were characterized by an anthropological structure similar to the Litorids. The descendants of the Etruscans still survive in great number, especially in the metal-rich southern part of Tuscany. In this part of Italy we find relatively high values of blood type gene q.







Litoral race of Lundman is Mediterranid-Armenoid. You can read Lundman yourself, as you understand Swedish.

I have written the text below before, but here it is once again:

Bertil Lundman wrote in "Jordens Folkstammar" (The Earth's Folk Tribes) in page 64 that the Frisians stand linguistically and racially closer to the Englishmen than the Low Germans from North Germany. Furthermore, they are racially still strikingly pure Nordid, nevertheless here and there with weak "litoral" strains.

He define Litoral as Mediterranid-Armenid in page 53 in the chapter about Europe.

Note that Deniker's Litoral is Karpathid. It is Gorid-Mediterranid (probably Pontid here) with ancient Armenoid strains. It is found in e.g. Hungary.

They came to both SW England (as in Cornwall) and SW Ireland and the Netherlands. Even Denmark with amber dealers from the south, so maybe Anders Fogh Rasmussen's dark pigmentation (for Danes) and some peculiar facial features can be explained by that and not only the Falid type.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen:

http://www.sinktank.ch/archiv/rasmussen.jpg

http://www.pnltv.com/splash1/denmark_2.jpg

There are certainly Norwegians with darker pigmentation and what is not typical for Nordid features. However, I can often see that they are from Norway, as there is not only one individual who look like that. They are part of the racial condition of Norway, the folk stocks, if you will, in Lundman terms. They are actually what characterise Norway, inasmuch there are some types which characterise Denmark or Sweden.

It would be best to see a colour photo of your face and profile.

Du är mycket välkommen

Ha det bra

Awar
Sunday, October 5th, 2003, 11:38 PM
You look very mediterranean, I suppose that we should see your parent's photos to make some better judgement of the admixtures present.

Polak
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 06:32 AM
That's interesting. Your father and grandfather were both 1.96m, and you're 1.88m.

That's a big difference, in the opposite direction than I would expect.

Is the pigmentation different as well? What about the head shape (cephalic index and height)?

I'm about 1.91m, so that's nearly 20cm taller than my dad. And my grandfather was only a bit taller than him, I think.

Regards




Thank you all for your kind replies. I believe that Frans' theory is the closest to the truth. Rufosity and freckling are very common among Brünns, unless I am mistaken, a trait which I have in spades (freckling at least.) I should like to add a few more bits of information: my CI is 77, eyes really green-gray combination, and the walls of the cranial vault are not really rounded at all; the transition from the front to the side of the cranial vault are abrupt and angular, not rounded as in Trønders or UPs. If it would be of assistance, I can post more photos, including ones of my father and his father (both of whom were 1.96m tall.)

A little off of the subject, but I believe it was Lundman who spoke of the Littoral (his Littoriden) race orignating in the near-east and spreading as far as Vestlandet, Norway. Could this be the genesis of any un-depigmented mediterraneans in Scandinavia? Does the Littoral race correspond to the Mesolithic / Long-Barrow mediterraneans mentioned by Coon?

Again, thanks to the creators of the site for this important, and unfortuneately, rare forum.