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Evolved
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 07:50 AM
Females (http://www.kazan.ru/people/?gender=F&sort=t&page=0)

Males (http://www.kazan.ru/people/?gender=M&sort=t&page=0)

Interesting range of phenotypes. :)

1.4 million live in Kazan, over 48.5% are Tatars, 43.3% are Russians, 3.7% are Chuvash and Mordvinians, Udmurts, Mari, and Bashkirs together make up 4.5%. There are also some Germans there.


Kazan, the capital of the Republic of Tatarstan, is celebrating a thousandth birthday in the year 2005. Standing at the crossroads of trading routes between the West and the East, Kazan has been a multinational city for as long as its history goes and is home to more than 70 nationalities. The Germans came to settle in Kazan in the 16th century. On orders from Tsar Ivan the Terrible thousands of Germans and Scots captured in the Livonian War came to live in cities across the region with the right to free religion. The majority of Kazan Germans were merchants and tradesmen. But there were scientists among them too: Karl Fooks, a doctor and ethnographer, one Kazan University's first rectors, chemist Alexander Butlerov, pathologist Petr Lesgaft. 450 Germans lived in Kazan one hundred years ago. 324 of them were Lutherans. The German Lutheran Community in Kazan wad founded in 1767. That same year saw the beginning of the construction of St.Catherine's Church, a wooden structure that opened in 1773. A year later the church burnt down but was soon restored in stone. In 1929 it was nationalized and in 1996 was returned to the city's German community. In addition to divine services and a German choir, it hosts plays in German. And working under its wing are the republic's German House and the German Culture Center, which offers German language courses. Kazan has four secondary schools specializing in the German language. The German population of Kazan is now about 500 and about 10 thousand live on the territory of Tatarstan.

Polak
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 09:26 AM
Most of the girls could pass for eastern Europeans.

But most of them probably are eastern Europeans (Slavs).

The guys show more exotic phenotypes for sure.

Polak
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 09:29 AM
Funny thing is that a woman like this is probably seen by many as a Mongol mix because of her exotic looks, AND the fact that she is from Tatarstan.

But I've seen girls like her in Scandinavia, both with dark and blond hair. And over there, they're seen as normal Nordic girls.

Polak
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 09:44 AM
More usual Slavic type from the same region.

Polak
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 09:45 AM
And an East Asian type. Obviously with very little, if any, Slavic blood.

Polak
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 09:57 AM
ladygoeth,

Do you think this guy's sexy? LOL

Polak
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 10:02 AM
Ok, just kidding. What about this guy?

Loki
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 10:26 AM
More usual Slavic type from the same region.


This one looks amazingly Germanic.

Polak
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 10:44 AM
This one looks amazingly Germanic.


She looks Slavic to me. Sure, she could pass for Germanic, but I wouldn't associate that look with most Germanic girls.

The eyes are Slavic.

Loki
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 11:01 AM
She looks Slavic to me. Sure, she could pass for Germanic, but I wouldn't associate that look with most Germanic girls.

The eyes are Slavic.

Most Slavic girls don't look like her. She has exceptional purity.

Polak
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 11:17 AM
Most Slavic girls don't look like her. She has exceptional purity.


Exceptional purity, eh?

Most Germanic girls are nowhere near as delicate as her.

Loki
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 04:06 PM
Exceptional purity, eh?

Most Germanic girls are nowhere near as delicate as her.

Oh no not the masculinity stuff again... lol. :lol

Prodigal Son
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 05:31 PM
Most Slavic girls don't look like her. She has exceptional purity.

I agree with Polak that she looks more Slavic than Germanic, mainly because of the eyes. And with all due respect Loki, I think that Polak is better qualified to speak about what Slavs (i.e. Northern Slavs: Poles, Russians and Belarussians) do or do not look like, since he is a Slav and has lived in a Slavic country for most of his life.

Loki
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 06:07 PM
I agree with Polak that she looks more Slavic than Germanic, mainly because of the eyes. And with all due respect Loki, I think that Polak is better qualified to speak about what Slavs (i.e. Northern Slavs: Poles, Russians and Belarussians) do or do not look like, since he is a Slav and has lived in a Slavic country for most of his life.

I don't doubt that, but the problem is you guys reckon you are even better qualified to speak about Germanic lands too. Now let's be fair, please. You cannot have your bread buttered on both sides...

Stríbog
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 06:43 PM
She looks Slavic. Slavic girls are more gracile on average than Germanic girls, because of the much lower UP component. Them's the facts, Jack. ;)
What constitutes "exceptional purity" for a Slav? If all Germanics are so pure how do you explain Björk? :P

Awar
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 06:53 PM
Funny thing is that a woman like this is probably seen by many as a Mongol mix because of her exotic looks, AND the fact that she is from Tatarstan.

But I've seen girls like her in Scandinavia, both with dark and blond hair. And over there, they're seen as normal Nordic girls.

Oh my god! I'm in love! She looks like Liv Tyler, only much better!

Loki
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 07:19 PM
She looks Slavic. Slavic girls are more gracile on average than Germanic girls, because of the much lower UP component. Them's the facts, Jack. ;)
What constitutes "exceptional purity" for a Slav? If all Germanics are so pure how do you explain Björk? :P

Have you ever been to Europe, Mr Wise Guy? How do you know for sure? ;)

Stríbog
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 07:48 PM
Have you ever been to Europe, Mr Wise Guy? How do you know for sure? ;)

I've been to Europe 3 separate times, and I've known plenty of Slavics and Germanics who recently came to America.

Vojvoda
Thursday, October 2nd, 2003, 11:56 PM
Hm, yeah it is easy to tell if someone is slavic just by looking at their eyes, like vanessa:love hehe

Borivoj
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 12:03 AM
Yes I know a Slavic girl when I see one :inlove Do we have to get into the "questionable purity" of Slavs and the "supposed masculinity" of Germans again? ;)

Loki
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 12:09 AM
Yes I know a Slavic girl when I see one :inlove Do we have to get into the "questionable purity" of Slavs and the "supposed masculinity" of Germans again? ;)

No we don't have to. I know Slavic girls have cute eyes so don't worry about that ;)

(especially Vannessa... )

torrent
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 12:11 AM
More usual Slavic type from the same region.
interesting she is clearly mongoloid plus nordic mixture. low rooted nose seperate eyes, the chin. is this a typical slav? i though typical slav was a dolichocephal high vaulted battle axe or was it low vaulted kurganid or phalid?
where are we? btw i do find kurganids rathergood looking for i have seen many.
best regards

Evolved
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 04:00 AM
ladygoeth,
Do you think this guy's sexy? LOL

A well-armed, ill-fed Kazakh looking guy? hehe, no thanks. :D

Jehu is cute.
http://www.kazan.ru/people/photos/mi.jpg

His photography (http://kazan.ws/cgi-bin/gallery/galery.pl?id=772) is nice.

Evolved
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 04:37 AM
Here are the best looking guys, IMO ;)

http://www.kazan.ru/people/photos/Ramis.jpg

http://www.kazan.ru/people/photos/Pavel.jpg

http://www.kazan.ru/people/photos/timur.jpg

He's interesting: :)

http://www.kazan.ru/people/photos/r4.jpg

Nordhammer
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 05:39 AM
She looks Slavic. Slavic girls are more gracile on average than Germanic girls, because of the much lower UP component.

Must be from the greater Mongoloid component. :D

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 09:23 AM
interesting she is clearly mongoloid plus nordic mixture. low rooted nose seperate eyes, the chin. is this a typical slav? i though typical slav was a dolichocephal high vaulted battle axe or was it low vaulted kurganid or phalid?
where are we? btw i do find kurganids rathergood looking for i have seen many.
best regards


If you think those features indicate Mongolid admixture, then that means many millions of Europeans are actually Mongols, from Iberia to Russia.

I'm curious, have you been to Europe? Features like hers are very common in many populations, Slavic and others. They are white European features.

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 09:26 AM
A well-armed, ill-fed Kazakh looking guy? hehe, no thanks. :D

Jehu is cute.
http://www.kazan.ru/people/photos/mi.jpg

His photography (http://kazan.ws/cgi-bin/gallery/galery.pl?id=772) is nice.


Trust me, his photography is crap. Cliched crap, to be exact. And yes, I can do better, and can prove it.

Evolved
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 09:40 AM
"More usual Slavic type from the same region."

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3410

I've never been there so I can't say what people look like. But she doesn't look purely Russian. If the "usual Slavic type" from Tatarstan is usually semi-mongoloid, then maybe she is. :)

I agree with asparukh, spacing between her eyes, shape of her nose and her chin indicate some mongoloid. Britney Spears has those far-apart eyes but in her case I would guess Native American admixture. :)

Loki
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 09:57 AM
"More usual Slavic type from the same region."

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3410

I've never been there so I can't say what people look like. But she doesn't look purely Russian. If the "usual Slavic type" from Tatarstan is usually semi-mongoloid, then maybe she is. :)

I agree with asparukh, spacing between her eyes, shape of her nose and her chin indicate some mongoloid. Britney Spears has those far-apart eyes but in her case I would guess Native American admixture. :)

If asparukh, ladygoeth and Nordhammer all claim to spot *something*, then perhaps there could be truth to it. Upon a second glance, I actually see what they saw. Some incipient Mongoloid characteristics?

I retract my statement that she looks Germanic. She doesn't.

Frans_Jozef
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 10:05 AM
No we don't have to. I know Slavic girls have cute eyes so don't worry about that ;)

(especially Vannessa... )

During the winter times, the Avar warlords took residence among the Slavic peasants and claimed the whole village in the vicinity of their camps as part of their extended family, including the young maidens and wifes of the peasant folk...of course, these maiden wouldn't be much longer maidens at the end of the season...

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 10:52 AM
"More usual Slavic type from the same region."

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3410

I've never been there so I can't say what people look like. But she doesn't look purely Russian. If the "usual Slavic type" from Tatarstan is usually semi-mongoloid, then maybe she is. :)

I agree with asparukh, spacing between her eyes, shape of her nose and her chin indicate some mongoloid. Britney Spears has those far-apart eyes but in her case I would guess Native American admixture. :)


Ok, let me just say that I have a lot of experience when it comes to oogling at young lasses.

This girl may have Mongol genes, and in that part of the world that's not unusual.

But if we're talking about her phenotyope, then it looks very European to me.

I've seen girls like this in Italy, Poland, France, the UK, Scandinavia...all over the place.

I'm sure they weren't all mixed, because if they were then Europe is a very mixed place.

Take a look at Claudia Schiffer. Is she the descendant of Hun warriors who camped in Germanic villages along the Rhine?

Well perhaps, but I doubt it.

Loki
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 11:37 AM
Take a look at Claudia Schiffer. Is she the descendant of Hun warriors who camped in Germanic villages along the Rhine?

Well perhaps, but I doubt it.

Indeed. She may have some Slavic ancestors, hence.... There are many people in Germany with some Slavic blood. So it is very possible.

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 12:36 PM
Indeed. She may have some Slavic ancestors, hence.... There are many people in Germany with some Slavic blood. So it is very possible.


I actually think she's very Germanic. I could not mistake her for a Slav.

She looks very Scandinavian and very Borreby to me.

Nevertheless, she does have pseudo-Mongoloid features.

What we're forgetting here is that Caucasoids and Mongoloids are very close, so there will be some overlappig in features.

It just seems to me that whenever this happens in Slavic countries, this is automatically thought of as a residue of medieval invasions.

But Northwest Europeans with wide cheekbones, short faces and almond eyes are often thought of as Nordics.

Those clowns on that Nordish website even classified Schiffer as a Halstatt once. Amazing.

Anyway, thus far, there is no genetic evidence of the Avars or Huns leaving any sort of a mark in eastern Europe.

The only thing we've found so far is one island in Croatia with Haplotype F, which may or may not be Avar, and a guy from the Rhine valley with 23% Mongoloid Autosomal DNA.

I think unless someone shows me some solid evidence of real Mongoloid features (I mean like on a forensic level) and some genetic studies, then they can shove their stories of Avar warriors and Slavic maidens up their collective poop shutes.

I think that's fair.

Loki
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 12:40 PM
I actually think she's very Germanic. I could not mistake her for a Slav.

She looks very Scandinavian and very Borreby to me.



Oh you mean Miss Schiffer? Yeah that's possible... as I've said, she is probably some mixture. Nevertheless a sexy mix.

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 01:55 PM
Oh you mean Miss Schiffer? Yeah that's possible... as I've said, she is probably some mixture. Nevertheless a sexy mix.



Yeah, I don't mind her.

She does tend to have big teeth, but it looks kind of cute on her.

The point I'm making is that many "racialists" would label her a Mongol based on her features if they didn't know her bakground.

I'm willing to bet she isn't a Mongol, but then again she does come from the Rhine valley where the Huns burned a few cities, so who knows.

But no one here seems interested in raising that issue.

That's right people, the Huns made it all the way to the Dutch border. Shouldn't you be searching for Mongols all the way through Germany?

No?

Kind of hypocritical I think.

Anyway, I don't think we should have a cow over one pic of a Tatar girl, or whoever she is.

I think what we should be doing, all of us, is backing up our arguments with solid evidence.

I can do it, and have been doing it. I can back up all my points with hard facts, not outdated material and myths about ye olden days.

Christ people, it's 2003, let's act like it.

Loki
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 02:01 PM
Yeah, I don't mind her.

She does tend to have big teeth, but it looks kind of cute on her.

The point I'm making is that many "racialists" would label her a Mongol based on her features if they didn't know her bakground.

I'm willing to bet she isn't a Mongol, but then again she does come from the Rhine valley where the Huns burned a few cities, so who knows.

But no one here seems interested in raising that issue.

That's right people, the Huns made it all the way to the Dutch border. Shouldn't you be searching for Mongols all the way through Germany?

No?

Kind of hypocritical I think.

Anyway, I don't think we should have a cow over one pic of a Tatar girl, or whoever she is.

I think what we should be doing, all of us, is backing up our arguments with solid evidence.

I can do it, and have been doing it. I can back up all my points with hard facts, not outdated material and myths about ye olden days.

Christ people, it's 2003, let's act like it.

Okay, the Huns were all over Germany and Holland, but they somehow missed Poland. How is your head working? You are sounding just like a Jew. One standard for Poles, and another for everyone else.

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 02:15 PM
Okay, the Huns were all over Germany and Holland, but they somehow missed Poland. How is your head working? You are sounding just like a Jew. One standard for Poles, and another for everyone else.


Actually, they did miss Poland. Or rather, they missed the Poles.

And they never went into Holland, but anyway...

The Huns travelled north of the Black Sea, south of the Carpathians, through Moravia, and into Germany, where they went more than a little nuts.

The Slavs, who were to become Poles at this stage, were still north of the Hun's range.

The Hun empire is often depicted as including half of Europe up to the Urals, but that has little to do with reality.

They had an empire in present day Hungary and raided to the west and south.

I have detailed maps of their travels, and they never come into contact with the Polish tribes.

The Avars do not come into contact with the Poles either.

The Mongols did attack southern Poland, and went all the way up to Germany through Silesia, but this attack can't be compared with the Huns lengthy attacks of western and southern Europe.

I have these maps here, would you like to seem them?

Frans_Jozef
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 04:01 PM
Actually, they did miss Poland. Or rather, they missed the Poles.

And they never went into Holland, but anyway...

The Huns travelled north of the Black Sea, south of the Carpathians, through Moravia, and into Germany, where they went more than a little nuts.

The Slavs, who were to become Poles at this stage, were still north of the Hun's range.

The Hun empire is often depicted as including half of Europe up to the Urals, but that has little to do with reality.

They had an empire in present day Hungary and raided to the west and south.

I have detailed maps of their travels, and they never come into contact with the Polish tribes.

The Avars do not come into contact with the Poles either.

The Mongols did attack southern Poland, and went all the way up to Germany through Silesia, but this attack can't be compared with the Huns lengthy attacks of western and southern Europe.

I have these maps here, would you like to seem them?

On the other hand, there's ample evidence to postulate a priori that the East Germanic tribes in NE Europe might have been absorbed by the Slaves and gradually lost their language and customs to them....hence why we find Hallstatt and probably other Scandinavian types in this region, no?

Loki
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 04:03 PM
You are right, Polak.

It seems from maps that the Huns have missed the Polish people mostly, since they passed to the south of what is now Poland. Of course, during those times, there was no Poland yet, and the Polish people (or their Slavic ancestors) did live more to the east and south than the current Polish borders would indicate. I don't think there is convincing evidence that the Poles were completely unaffected by the Huns, though.

In any case, if the semi-Mongoloid Turkic Huns missed the Poles, then certainly the fully-Mongoloid Mongols of the 13th century totally compensated for that. Poor Krakow was devastated and burnt to the ground, I believe. I wonder what happened to all the young brunette lovely Polish maidens, and if they all escaped the lusts of those savages. I guess one will never know.

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 04:32 PM
You are right, Polak.

It seems from maps that the Huns have missed the Polish people mostly, since they passed to the south of what is now Poland. Of course, during those times, there was no Poland yet, and the Polish people (or their Slavic ancestors) did live more to the east and south than the current Polish borders would indicate. I don't think there is convincing evidence that the Poles were completely unaffected by the Huns, though.

In any case, if the semi-Mongoloid Turkic Huns missed the Poles, then certainly the fully-Mongoloid Mongols of the 13th century totally compensated for that. Poor Krakow was devastated and burnt to the ground, I believe. I wonder what happened to all the young brunette lovely Polish maidens, and if they all escaped the lusts of those savages. I guess one will never know.


South and east?

Nope, the Poles were to the north of the Hun advance. They didn't move into the area touched by the Huns till several centuries later.

Poles and Huns never met.

In regards to the Mongol attack, I don't know precisely whether any Polish maidens were invloved in any way.

However, I have not seen any evidence to suggest that the Mongols went on a raping spree, which then resulted in hybrids.

Southern Poland, which has been studied genetically quite extensively in recent years, does not show any of the Haplogroup 10 associated with the Mongol invasions.

In fact, it doesn't even show any Tat-C, or HG26, which may or may not be Mongoloid.

These are all paternal genes that the Mongols would have left behind.

Not only that, but in terms of Autosomal DNA Poles are further away from Asians than Northern Europeans are.

I personally don't believe that the Hun, Avar and Mongol invasion left much in the way of blood in Europe. I don't really know why, but it just didn't happen. Perhaps it had something to do with population sizes and dynamics at the time, or the way the women were treated - perhaps they were killed after being raped?

Whatever, but there is no trace of these people in Poland, that's for sure.

The Balkans are showing very small signs of the Turkic and Mongol waves, but only very small. After all, Hungary, where the Huns were based, shows various Mongol markers at 1-2%. And this is after quite a few studies looking for different things.

So what's going on? I don't know. But like I said, let's deal in facts, not ancient fairy tales.

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 04:39 PM
On the other hand, there's ample evidence to postulate a priori that the East Germanic tribes in NE Europe might have been absorbed by the Slaves and gradually lost their language and customs to them....hence why we find Hallstatt and probably other Scandinavian types in this region, no?


Most of the eastern Germanic tribes left the area. In fact, the Goths allied themselves with the Huns.

But yes, some stayed behind and mixed with the advancing Slavs. Many place names in Poland are of Gothic origin and they must have been passed on verbally.

Not sure about whether they had much of an impact racially. Most Slavs belonged to the more rugged, higher headed Nordic types, so perhaps the presence of lower vaulted Halstatts is due to Germanic influence? Hard to tell.

Borivoj
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 04:50 PM
Do Czechs show any large amounts Haplogroup 10?

Nordhammer
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 05:04 PM
I'm sure they weren't all mixed, because if they were then Europe is a very mixed place.

Take a look at Claudia Schiffer. Is she the descendant of Hun warriors who camped in Germanic villages along the Rhine?

Well perhaps, but I doubt it.

Well, let me say this, I'd rather have a Germanic Hun than a Slavic Hun. :D

Loki
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 05:05 PM
South and east?

Nope, the Poles were to the north of the Hun advance. They didn't move into the area touched by the Huns till several centuries later.

No, I meant the Polish were located to the east and the south of current Poland. You misunderstood me.


So what's going on? I don't know. But like I said, let's deal in facts, not ancient fairy tales.

The Mongol invasions were not fairy tales -- they really happened. The whole of Little Poland was invaded by the Mongols. During all invasions, unfortunately, women get raped and impregnated. It would be idealistic to suggest Poland escaped this fate.

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 05:08 PM
Do Czechs show any large amounts Haplogroup 10?


Czechs don't shown any Haplogroup 10.


They do, however, show 6% of Haologroup 12, which is the ancestral gene to Tat-C.

This may, or may not be of Mongoloid origin. But even if it is of Mongol origin, there's no telling it was brought there by Mongols, because many whites carry it too (Finns and Balts especially).

Nordhammer
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 05:14 PM
I personally don't believe that the Hun, Avar and Mongol invasion left much in the way of blood in Europe. I don't really know why, but it just didn't happen. Perhaps it had something to do with population sizes and dynamics at the time, or the way the women were treated - perhaps they were killed after being raped?

Maybe their little tools couldn't reach far enough to inseminate our big-boned women. :) Like a Chihuahua trying to impregnate a German shepherd.

Asians don't seem as virile as Caucasians, a lot of them just like to "watch". Why do you think no one likes to watch Asian porn? Even Asians don't like to watch themselves. :D

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 05:15 PM
No, I meant the Polish were located to the east and the south of current Poland. You misunderstood me.

Oh...

But my point stands.

The Polish tribes were in the marshy and forested areas to the north of where the Huns rode through.

I've never seen any evidence that the two groups met.

Hun remains in Poland are not extensive and they predate any sort of a Slavic presence by many years.


The Mongol invasions were not fairy tales -- they really happened. The whole of Little Poland was invaded by the Mongols. During all invasions, unfortunately, women get raped and impregnated. It would be idealistic to suggest Poland escaped this fate.


Well I don't know what happened. I have been asking myself this question for a long time.

But there's no proof of large scale rapes - in terms of forensic Mongoloid traits (like shovel shaped incissors) or Mongol gene markers.

If hybrids resulted, they didn't leave much of an imprint for some reason. Maybe they were too few?

Stríbog
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 05:18 PM
Well, let me say this, I'd rather have a Germanic Hun than a Slavic Hun. :D

That doesn't really make much sense....

Nordhammer
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 05:54 PM
Do Czechs show any large amounts Haplogroup 10?

I must say, there are a lot of fine female specimens that come out of the former Czechoslovakia.

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 06:01 PM
I must say, there are a lot of fine female specimens that come out of the former Czechoslovakia.



Yeah, and this one's my favorite...Karolina Kurkova.

Loki
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 06:11 PM
Yeah, and this one's my favorite...Karolina Kurkova.

Her face reminds me a little of Mila Jovovich.

Allenson
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 06:13 PM
I'm not speaking with any anthropological backing here...but I can't help but speculate that, if the evidence is correct in the low amount of Mongoloid genetic material in just about all of Europe, there must be some form of proto-Eurasian that creeps up into peoples phenotypes from time time. I mean,there was a split at some time in ancient history between Europids and Mongoloids so it shouldn't some as much of a surprise to occasionally see a Swede, German, Pole, etc. that shows some (this is the KEY word here) incipient physical traits that are reminisent of this time.

Now, I have been to Europe (Germany, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, England & Wales) but that was way the hell back in high school and while I could certainly tell the difference between the major races I wasn't at all tuned in to the oft-subtle differences between our sub-types. Therefore, I can't speak with any authority as can those who actually live there. That being said, I have met many native Europeans here in the States, I've looked at lots-o-pics in past couple years in this whole classification game, I see European derived people everywhere here AND I'm a big watcher of the Olympics when the come around. So, I feel reasonably confident in saying that I've seen this "look" on folks of many different European nationalities...especially from northern, central and eastern Europe. The features that I am talking about are: low rooted nose often with a slight up-turn, widely-spaced "almond"-shaped eyes and highish malars.

Again, I can't help but wonder if these are indeed remnants from a "proto-Eurasian" stage and not at all (or perhaps only slightly) the result of more historical Mongoloid invasions.

Call me crazy if you will. :)

Borivoj
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 06:19 PM
I have noticed that too Dalonord...
One last pic Paulina Porizkova ;)

Her face looks similar to many women here, I don't know how to describe it however. I think it is the lips and eyes.

Awar
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 06:27 PM
There are quite a lot of girls who look just like Paulina Porizkova in Northern Serbia ( Vojvodina ). I'd say that in panonia this type of people is in majority.

Of course, I can already see Nordicists 'inventing' seeing Mongoloid DNA, Down's syndrome, Moorish ancestry and Inbreeding in Paulina's phenotype, simultaneously proclaiming her un-attractiveness.

Oh well..... jelaous...

Allenson
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 06:31 PM
There are quite a lot of girls who look just like Paulina Porizkova in Northern Serbia ( Vojvodina ). I'd say that in panonia this type of people is in majority.

Of course, I can already see Nordicists 'inventing' seeing Mongoloid DNA, Down's syndrome, Moorish ancestry and Inbreeding in Paulina's phenotype, simultaneously proclaiming her un-attractiveness.

Oh well..... jelaous...


Hee-hee, I see none of these things in this woman's phenotype. All I see there is pure beauty.

I'm not jealous. Actually I am happy for you AWAR. What are you sitting in front of a computer for if there are women like that where you live?! :)

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 06:52 PM
I'm not speaking with any anthropological backing here...but I can't help but speculate that, if the evidence is correct in the low amount of Mongoloid genetic material in just about all of Europe, there must be some form of proto-Eurasian that creeps up into peoples phenotypes from time time. I mean,there was a split at some time in ancient history between Europids and Mongoloids so it shouldn't some as much of a surprise to occasionally see a Swede, German, Pole, etc. that shows some (this is the KEY word here) incipient physical traits that are reminisent of this time.

Now, I have been to Europe (Germany, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, England & Wales) but that was way the hell back in high school and while I could certainly tell the difference between the major races I wasn't at all tuned in to the oft-subtle differences between our sub-types. Therefore, I can't speak with any authority as can those who actually live there. That being said, I have met many native Europeans here in the States, I've looked at lots-o-pics in past couple years in this whole classification game, I see European derived people everywhere here AND I'm a big watcher of the Olympics when the come around. So, I feel reasonably confident in saying that I've seen this "look" on folks of many different European nationalities...especially from northern, central and eastern Europe. The features that I am talking about are: low rooted nose often with a slight up-turn, widely-spaced "almond"-shaped eyes and highish malars.

Again, I can't help but wonder if these are indeed remnants from a "proto-Eurasian" stage and not at all (or perhaps only slightly) the result of more historical Mongoloid invasions.

Call me crazy if you will. :)


Well I agree with that, and I believe it.

I don't want to shock anyone here, but did you people actually know that some of the major European specific mtDNA markers are actually more closely related to Mongolid specific markers than they are to each other?

Do you know what this means?

Polak
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 07:00 PM
And riddle me this.

Is this Swedish guy a Mongol hybrid, or does he just have some features from the proto-Caucasoid/Mongoloids?

I can't tell.

Nordhammer
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 08:07 PM
Yeah, and this one's my favorite...Karolina Kurkova.

Mmm hmm, you could rest a glass on that. Nice body, don't care for the face though.

Nordhammer
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 08:10 PM
I have noticed that too Dalonord...
One last pic Paulina Porizkova ;)

Her face looks similar to many women here, I don't know how to describe it however. I think it is the lips and eyes.

She's got a great backside on her, stirs the emotions! She's definitely a hottie.

She gets buck naked and straddles a guy in the movie Thursday, which is a cool movie also, where a blond Nordic guy talks sht to a bunch of blacks and blows them all away. :D

Nordhammer
Friday, October 3rd, 2003, 08:16 PM
Of course, I can already see Nordicists 'inventing' seeing Mongoloid DNA, Down's syndrome, Moorish ancestry and Inbreeding in Paulina's phenotype, simultaneously proclaiming her un-attractiveness.

Oh well..... jelaous...

Nope, she's great, but I'm not sure if I believe a majority look like her. :)

She didn't marry right really, I believe that rocker from The Cars? He's a weirdlooking, darkhaired guy.

Awar
Saturday, October 4th, 2003, 12:12 AM
Nope, she's great, but I'm not sure if I believe a majority look like her. :)

I said that the majority of people are the same sub-racial type as her. Tall, slender, blonde-to-dark brown, with light eyes, thin noses, white/pinkish skin.


She didn't marry right really, I believe that rocker from The Cars? He's a weirdlooking, darkhaired guy.

Ooh! :-O Darkhaired!!! Let's gass him! :D

Evolved
Saturday, October 4th, 2003, 02:26 AM
Oh god, it's turning into another "Slavic babes" thread. How many is that now, 100? :joystick :joystick :joystick = :pig :pig :pig

Gladstone
Saturday, October 4th, 2003, 02:50 AM
She didn't marry right really, I believe that rocker from The Cars? He's a weirdlooking, darkhaired guy.
Their separated now..the hard way. He died a few years back.

Loki
Saturday, October 4th, 2003, 06:04 PM
http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/02/11/science/030211_sci_KHANmap.gif

Note that the country borders are the modern ones. If you take into consideration the ethnic borders of 1280, this Mongol Empire (yes -- empire, not just an invasion) covered at least more than half of the ethnic Polish area, the entire Ukrainian, Belarussian and most of populated Russia.

Loki
Saturday, October 4th, 2003, 06:11 PM
Following on from the map in my previous post, here is a quote taken from this link:

http://www.racearchives.com/archived/viewnews.asp?newsID=734600245952

"A remarkable living legacy of the Mongol empire has been discovered by geneticists in a survey of human populations from the Caucasus to China.

They find that as many as 8 percent of the men dwelling in the confines of the former Mongol empire bear Y chromosomes that seem characteristic of the Mongol ruling house. "

Frans_Jozef
Saturday, October 4th, 2003, 07:13 PM
On the other hand, there's ample evidence to postulate a priori that the East Germanic tribes in NE Europe might have been absorbed by the Slaves and gradually lost their language and customs to them....hence why we find Hallstatt and probably other Scandinavian types in this region, no?

For whom is interested in the historic and ethnological records:

The Goths in Greater Poland
Tadeusz Makiewicz



During the first centuries ad, referred to by Polish archaeologists as the Period of Roman Influences, three large cultural complexes, probably associated with three different peoples, made their mark in the present-day territories of Poland. Southern and central Poland was occupied by the Przeworsk Culture, which gained its name from the village of Przeworsk, situated in Lesser Poland (Maűopolska), where the first cemeteries typical of this culture were discovered. This culture emerged at the beginning of the second century bc and continued to thrive for several hundred years, right up until the Migration Period. The regions of Warmia and Mazuria (Mazury) were inhabited by representatives of the Western Balt Culture, which developed independently of its neighbours, and differed from them distinctly, bearing, however, a clear relationship to Baltic peoples. In contrast, during the first decades ad, an entirely new culture began to take shape in Pomerania. Archaeologists dubbed it the Wielbark Culture, after the site at Wielbark (currently Malbork-Wielbark), where the first cemetery of this culture was found. This area of Poland had previously been occupied by the Oksywie Culture, closely related to the Przeworsk Culture, but differing in many aspects from the subsequent Wielbark Culture. At the beginning of its existence the Wielbark Culture had exactly the same territorial extent as the Oksywie Culture. Thus, it covered an area stretching along the Lower Vistula from Gdańsk to Chełmno in the south, whilst to the west it encompassed a large proportion of Pomerania, reaching beyond the River Parsęta. Later on it extended even further, into the of Kashubian and Krajeński Lakelands and into northern Greater Poland, stretching south towards the Poznań region. Another marked change took place during the first half of the third century ad, when the Wielbark Culture withdrew from Greater Poland and from virtually the whole of Pomerania, apart from those territories situated nearest the Vistula Estuary. At the same time, expansion to the south-east began, Wielbark communities settling in Mazovia (Mazowsze) and Little Poland to the east of the Vistula, even reaching as far as the Ukraine.
Hence, by about the mid first century ad, the Przeworsk societies which had previously lived in northern Greater Poland had been displaced by the Wielbark Culture whose own freshly founded settlements and cemeteries continued to exist here for approximately 150 years. These cultures were separated by a clear divide, contacts between them having been so minimal as to not be detectable by archaeological methods. Thus, we can conclude that they represented two clearly disassociated tribal groups.
What were the distinguishing characteristics of the Wielbark Culture? Wielbark societies practised both cremation and inhumation rites for burying their dead. The proportion of inhumation to cremation burials at Wielbark Culture cemeteries varies greatly from site to site. It is difficult to say where these differences in burial rites came from; whether they resulted from differences in religion or from the different cultural traditions of a particular family. This latter theory seems rather more convincing, as identical grave goods accompanied both forms of burial.
The custom of raising stone-covered burial mounds of various shapes is another typical feature of this culture, as are stone circles, stelae and numerous types of cobble cladding. Wielbark Culture grave goods did not include weapons or tools (which was one of the stock items of Przeworsk Culture burials), ornaments and elements of costume taking precedence in this respect. A very limited number of male burials contained spurs - the only object in the entire grave assemblage related to a warrior’s equipment. The final characteristic feature of this culture is the predominant use of bronze for making ornaments and dress accessories, silver being used much less often and gold only very rarely, whilst iron was practically never used. It should also be added that virtually no Wielbark settlements have been recorded in this area, which means that we have a rather one-sided view of this culture as we know very little of the everyday life of its communities.
Evidence of the Wielbark Culture in Greater Poland comes from the cemetery at Kowalewko. Two large Wielbark cemetery sites had already earlier been excavated in northern Greater Poland (at Lutomie and Słopanów), whilst numerous smaller burial grounds and single graves, or individual items from them, had also been noted across the entire region. The cemetery at Kowalewko is, however, one of the largest burial sites in the whole of Poland and has yielded a particularly rich collection of beautiful finds. Archaeologists had not previously been aware of its existence. Therefore, it is entirely thanks to the fact that the gas pipeline was scheduled to pass through the cemetery that led to its discovery and excavation.
The Kowalewko cemetery site was first recorded during the course of fieldwalking along the route of the proposed gas pipeline. Excavation work began in 1995 and to-date has revealed a total of over 400 graves. By looking at a site plan showing all of the burials discovered thus far and taking into consideration the surrounding terrain, we can estimate that approximately 80% of the whole cemetery has now been explored, meaning that the grand total of burials may ultimately amount to between 500 and 550.
Both cremations and inhumations are represented at this cemetery. The latter are, naturally, of smaller dimensions, the burnt bones of the dead having been placed inside a pottery vessel known as an urn or deposited directly inside a modestly-sized burial pit. Cremations make up approximately 40% of the burials at Kowalewko. Inhumations were placed in plank-built coffins, or very occasionally, inside a coffin made from a single hollowed-out tree-trunk. Some graves were marked on the surface by a solitary stone, whilst in two instances, large boulders, selected for their specific form and additionally hewn into shape, had been used. Strange, atypical rituals involving the treatment of the skeleton were observed in a number of burials, such as turning the skull upside-down or positioning it on the chest or in the leg area.
No differences were noted in the grave goods included with inhumation and cremation burials.
The deceased individual was interred with articles which had belonged to him or her in life. In accordance with the principles of this culture, these consisted almost exclusively of dress accessories or ornaments, i.e. bracelets, bead necklaces, pendants, buckles and bronze belt fittings. The most numerously encountered form of burial good consisted of fibulae (a type of brooch used for fastening robes), which were often very decorative and extremely well-made. Two or three of these were usually found accompanying each burial. Fewer graves contained only a single fibula, whilst some rare examples had up to four. The fibulae are found in pairs, positioned at shoulder height, with the third brooch securing the robe at the chest. Bracelets, often with finials in the shape of stylized snake’s heads, also served as grave goods. Hair-pins made of silver, bronze and bone were another common find. Beads, however, accounted for the greatest quantity of burial finds. They came in various shapes and sizes and were made from amber, glass or silver. In some cases, necklaces consisting of up to 300 beads were found. These necklaces were fastened with silver ‘S’-shaped clasps, made of either silver or gold and very skilfully decorated. Further items of jewellery included bronze and silver pendants and, in a very few rare instances, gold ones. Pottery vessels, bone combs and metal fittings from wooden trinket boxes also featured as grave goods, whilst bronze spurs were found exclusively with male burials. Spurs were the only warrior-related items found in these graves. They included examples made in the Roman Empire and imported to this region. Undoubtedly, the most attractive artefact among the vast array recovered was a beautifully decorated bronze jug.
The Kowalewko cemetery dates from approximately the mid first century ad, to c. ad 220. Thus, it remained in use for a period of about 170 years - a total of about seven generations. We can conclude, therefore, that one generation numbered around eighty individuals.
It is worth adding that a Wielbark Culture settlement site had already earlier been excavated at Kowalewko; Greater Poland being the only region where numerous other settlements of this culture have been discovered. Several of these sites were recorded during the course of archaeological fieldwork along the route of the pipeline. As a result, we have been able to gain an insight into the settlement types and everyday lives of Wielbark societies.
The outline given above of the cemetery site at Kowalewko and of the Wielbark Culture to which it belongs does not answer the question of which race of people this culture was related to. What lies behind the strange names afforded these communities by archaeologists? Who were the people who inhabited these territories? What language did they speak and where did they come from?
Putting an ethnic origin to the many archaeologically defined ‘cultures’ is one of the most difficult problems facing researchers in this discipline today. This difficulty arises from two main sources. Firstly, what relation do archaeological cultures bear to specific ethnic units, i.e. to tribes and peoples? This issue has been hotly debated since the very dawn of archaeology and remains unresolved. Secondly, only a fragmented and very limited number of written sources exist which allude to Poland during this period, and can offer us some clues as to the nature of settlement in these territories.
Researchers have traditionally associated the Wielbark Culture with the Scandinavian peoples known as the Goths, maintaining that it was founded as a result of Gothic migration from their home territories in the Swedish province of Gotland or the Island of Gotlandia. Having completed a lengthy stay in Poland, these tribes then continued their migration to the Black Sea coast. The latest results of work carried out by archaeologists and historians indicates, however, that the real situation was not quite so straightforward and that we cannot simply equate the Wielbark Culture with the Goths.
Ancient writers, such as Pliny the Elder, Tacit and Ptolemy make mention of the Goths in their works, Tacit referring to their having been involved in an incident which took place in ad 19 on the territory of what is now the Czech Republic. The most important information, however, is proffered by the sixth-century writer Jordanes, who lived during the reign of the Emperor Justinian. Jordanes records that in the reign of King Berig, the Goths set sail from the Island of Skandia (i.e. modern-day Scandinavia) in three ships, alighting at the other side of the ocean, in a land which they called Gothiskandza, subjugating the neighbouring populations. Under the reign of Berig V they embarked on a further voyage to the land of Oium, i.e. to the northern territories of the Black Sea coast. A variety of interpretations have been put forward in relation to the three ships. The number was considered by some to have been merely symbolic, whilst others believed that it stood for three tribes - the Ostrogoths, Visigoths and Gepidae - or took it literally to refer to three sailing vessels carrying the Amal royal family, of which Theoderic the Great was a descendant.
Recent archaeological research and lengthy debate on this subject have, however, established that the Wielbark Culture did not simply come into being as a result of the arrival of tribes of Scandinavian Goths in Pomerania. Instead, it evolved from the development of the local Oksywie Culture, possibly having been subject to outside influences from Scvandinavia. This is evidenced primarily by the fact that in its initial phase, the Wielbark Culture had exactly the same territorial extent as the Oksywie Culture, many cemeteries having been kept in continued use by these two societies. Wielbark communities comprised mostly members of tribes already settled in this area with the addition of Scandinavian migrants, who maybe arrived here in small groups. At present, it is thought that those areas which were inhabited directly by Gothic peoples are characterised by the presence of extensive barrow cemeteries of the Odry-Węsiory-Grzybnica type, at which stone circles consisting of large boulders were raised. These were sites of a ritual character where tribal meetings (known as things) took place. Sites of this type are found in the Kashubian and Krajeński Lakelands, extending to the Koszalin region in the Central Lakelands, hence, to the west of the Vistula. These burial grounds began to appear across this area during the latter part of the first century ad, at the same time that the Kowalewko cemetery was founded.
This area is also associated with the Wielbark Culture, whose communities settled in Greater Poland during the same period and exhibit a number of close links with the aforementioned lakelands. We do not, however, have any evidence of stone circles or cobble-clad graves from Greater Poland, barrow burials being a rarity - only three having been recorded in the peripheral zone of this region. The Wielbark Culture appears to have been composed of Scandinavian Goths and Gepidae as well as of earlier local communities - the Venedi and Rugii. The woodlands of the Kashubian and Krajeński Lakelands, lying to the north-east of Greater Poland, are where groups of Goths are believed to have established their own settlements. The Wielbark Culture is thought to have reached Greater Poland from Pomerania, displacing the local Przeworsk Culture. Whether the Wielbark Culture was really of Gothic ethnic origin or made up of a number of different tribes (including Goths), we cannot say. In later years, at the beginning of the third century ad, they abandoned the territories of Greater Poland and Pomerania, moving on, together with their kinsfolk, until they reached the promised land of Oium, situated in modern-day Ukraine, where they founded their mighty empire.


For in-depth information and data on the history and language of the Goths:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/

Tore
Saturday, October 4th, 2003, 08:22 PM
"A remarkable living legacy of the Mongol empire has been discovered by geneticists in a survey of human populations from the Caucasus to China.

They find that as many as 8 percent of the men dwelling in the confines of the former Mongol empire bear Y chromosomes that seem characteristic of the Mongol ruling house. "

The Haplogroup in reference is surely Hg 10, which seems to be more or less confined to Central Asia ( as is Hg 36, which derives from 10).

Tore
Saturday, October 4th, 2003, 08:42 PM
Now, I have been to Europe (Germany, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, England & Wales) but that was way the hell back in high school and while I could certainly tell the difference between the major races I wasn't at all tuned in to the oft-subtle differences between our sub-types. Therefore, I can't speak with any authority as can those who actually live there. That being said, I have met many native Europeans here in the States, I've looked at lots-o-pics in past couple years in this whole classification game, I see European derived people everywhere here AND I'm a big watcher of the Olympics when the come around. So, I feel reasonably confident in saying that I've seen this "look" on folks of many different European nationalities...especially from northern, central and eastern Europe. The features that I am talking about are: low rooted nose often with a slight up-turn, widely-spaced "almond"-shaped eyes and highish malars.

The only true "pseudo-Mongoloids" (pertaining to cases where admixture is highly unlikely) I have observed have been of British Isles descent.

One is Scottish-English friend of mine.

His features truly are pecuilar and atypical for anyone of wholly European descent, as he is equipped with a low-rooted, broad nose, almond shaped eyes which are brown in pigment, and dark-brown hair. Apart from this, he is a less-distinct Bruenn type with a long, broad face, a large head, and a robust bone structure. Both of his parents are fully Europid with typical Bruenn features, as is his brother.

The other is a Welsh-Scottish girl who attends the same high-school as me who's appearance is vaguely similar to Bjork's, except she is more Europid with blue-eyes and less acentuated Mongoloid facial features. Her brother is a Blond-Haired, Blue-eyed UP type (Borreby?).

Of course, I don't mean to pick on those of British-Ises ancestry ( I fall partially into this category as well:)). I used the examples to illustrate that partially or seemingly Mongoloid individuals don't necessarily have to be the result of a historical incursion of Mongoloid blood. Therefore, those of British Isles descent were used as examples as, genetically speaking, the region is widely known to have low levels of Mongoloid lineages.

Nordhammer
Sunday, October 5th, 2003, 01:10 AM
The only true "pseudo-Mongoloids" (pertaining to cases where admixture is highly unlikely) I have observed have been of British Isles descent.


You mean witnessed in person?

I see many pseudo-Mongoloids, but they're obviously truly part Mongoloid, just in a Caucasoid mixture (a few were at the wedding I just got back from). I've never had a friend or acquaintance who looked pseudo-Mongoloid without having Mongoloid ancestry. All of my "white" or Nordish friends are usually of British Isles ancestry for the most part and look distinctly Nordish without any pseudo-Negroid or pseudo-Mongoloid traits.

As far as what I've observed in pictures, movies, etc, the pseudo-Mongoloids have almost all been Eastern European or Russian. There are a few broad-nosed, flat-faced Borreby types, like that big British guy in that movie Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels. He was similar to some of the examples Coon gave for Borreby.

And of course we know that according to genetic studies there is minor admixture in just about all countries, so seeing 1 out of 100 or 1000 looking Mongoloidish or Negroidish isn't unusual.

Tore
Sunday, October 5th, 2003, 05:51 AM
You mean witnessed in person?

I see many pseudo-Mongoloids, but they're obviously truly part Mongoloid, just in a Caucasoid mixture (a few were at the wedding I just got back from). I've never had a friend or acquaintance who looked pseudo-Mongoloid without having Mongoloid ancestry. All of my "white" or Nordish friends are usually of British Isles ancestry for the most part and look distinctly Nordish without any pseudo-Negroid or pseudo-Mongoloid traits.

I use the term Pseudo-Mongoloid to pertain to one who shows aspects of Mongoloidism/incipient Mongoloidism in their phenotype without having any Mongoloid ancestry.

I have met other Europeans of similar appearance, although in their case, I can not assume that they are wholly Europid in ancestry (i.e. a Hungarian).

Nordhammer
Sunday, October 5th, 2003, 04:45 PM
I use the term Pseudo-Mongoloid to pertain to one who shows aspects of Mongoloidism/incipient Mongoloidism in their phenotype without having any Mongoloid ancestry.

I have met other Europeans of similar appearance, although in their case, I can not assume that they are wholly Europid in ancestry (i.e. a Hungarian).

I understood your intention.

In many cases it cannot be confirmed, at least readily. Genetic studies may shine more light upon that for populations, but for individuals it's not practical (most people aren't going to have DNA studies done). So in that case, where one is unable to tell if they truly have ancient Mongoloid ancestry or whether it was just a natural convergence, it's unresolved. And really, does it matter? If you have a two people, one who is a true Mongoloid-white mixture, and another who is a European for generations but looks very similar to the hybrid, what difference does it make? Especially say if the hybrid has a higher IQ and is a good citizen and person? They both will reproduce semi-Mongoloid characteristics.

Phenotypical purity or aesthetic elitism is also important to people's racial perception. If we all looked like a bunch of pseudo-Mongoloids or pseudo-Negroids, who would really care about racial purity?

Loki
Sunday, October 5th, 2003, 05:25 PM
I have met other Europeans of similar appearance, although in their case, I can not assume that they are wholly Europid in ancestry (i.e. a Hungarian).

Care to clarify this statement regarding Hungarians? Are they any less Europid than, say, Ukrainians?

I also find your statement regarding these supposed British Mongolic-looking people rather strange... have you even been to Britain or Europe?

Tore
Sunday, October 5th, 2003, 11:36 PM
Care to clarify this statement regarding Hungarians? Are they any less Europid than, say, Ukrainians?

I'm not sure.

A small minority of Ukrainians (>5%), who tend to be darker than their Polish and Russian neighbours, who I have encountered look to be of questionable racial composition

I have not encountered a great deal of Hungarian individuals (Ukrainians are much more frequent were I live) although a Hungarian girl that I do know is of Turanid racial type. I would think that she would be atypical of Hungarians as a whole.


I also find your statement regarding these supposed British Mongolic-looking people rather strange... have you even been to Britain or Europe?

Yes, I have as a matter of fact, and have British Isles ancestry to boot.

No, I do not believe that such individuals are common among the indigenous British population.

Satisfied?:)


If you have a two people, one who is a true Mongoloid-white mixture, and another who is a European for generations but looks very similar to the hybrid, what difference does it make?

A valid point.

The genotype should not preside over the phenotype.

Evolved
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 01:01 AM
So in that case, where one is unable to tell if they truly have ancient Mongoloid ancestry or whether it was just a natural convergence, it's unresolved. And really, does it matter? If you have a two people, one who is a true Mongoloid-white mixture, and another who is a European for generations but looks very similar to the hybrid, what difference does it make?

It makes a big difference. :)

Someone who is "Eurasian" looking but there is no known Asian ancestry (and the features are from being "Ladogan", part Saami, or reemergence from non-recent Asian ancestry), and a Hapa are not going to reproduce similar offspring. That is placing all the importance on phenotype alone. With a hapa the mongoloid would be much stronger, because it is very recent. With someone like Björk, who is atypical for her family and the features come from reemergence, the mongoloid is recessive.

http://bjork.mcdesigns.net/isadora.jpg

Nordhammer
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 01:08 AM
It makes a big difference. :)


So you say now... but what if Bjork comes back with some Mongoloid in her DNA? You previously thought she was okay, but then you would change your mind? How much percentage of Mongoloid in the DNA is okay?

Bjork also obviously looks better, more white, than a half-breed hapa. She may be only equivalent to a 1/8 or 1/16th, I'm not sure.

BTW, I'm waiting for the Ancestry by DNA version 3.0, where they can also pinpoint regional subgroups, as in Northwest, Northeast Europe, etc! Cool!

Evolved
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 01:25 AM
I doubt she has much mongoloid DNA, probably much less than a typical Saami does. She's Germanic, afterall, so definitely part of the Master Race.

I find under 20% acceptable for mongoloid.

cosmocreator
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 07:31 AM
Which brings up an interesting point for one of our members. Xia is 23% Mongoloid. She lives in the US.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3467

Nordhammer
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 07:50 AM
Which brings up an interesting point for one of our members. Xia is 23% Mongoloid. She lives in the US.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3467

Yeah, she looks a little mestizo-ish, although her skull is not distinctly Mongoloid and looks more Caucasoid. I have little doubt the mainstream would say she's white.

cosmocreator
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 07:59 AM
Yeah, she looks a little mestizo-ish, although her skull is not distinctly Mongoloid and looks more Caucasoid. I have little doubt the mainstream would say she's white.


The Mongoloid comes from Northern Scandinavia. I think that's where's she is from.

Loki
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 12:48 PM
I doubt she has much mongoloid DNA, probably much less than a typical Saami does. She's Germanic, afterall, so definitely part of the Master Race.

I find under 20% acceptable for mongoloid.

This has to be the quote of the month, LOL. :lol

Frans_Jozef
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 01:11 PM
Which brings up an interesting point for one of our members. Xia is 23% Mongoloid. She lives in the US.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3467

she does not come over as a Mestizo or some ordinary Euro-Mongoloid blend, actually her face is quite large with cheekbones strong and a bit bowing out, in a way she reminds me of some Magdalénian UPs...

Nordhammer
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 03:56 PM
she does not come over as a Mestizo or some ordinary Euro-Mongoloid blend, actually her face is quite large with cheekbones strong and a bit bowing out, in a way she reminds me of some Magdalénian UPs...

Mestizos come in various mixtures, often with Negroid tinges, but I use the term mestizo in exclusion of that as far as I can discern unless mentioned. I'm not merely talking about half-breeds, but various levels of Amerindian. I've seen enough of them to know that she does resemble one that is more on the Caucasoid side, perhaps 25-10% Amerindian.

She has enough peculiarities to distinguish herself from a pure UP, IMO. If we saw more pictures of her at different angles too, I think it would be more clear.

Is the great Frans (joking :)) trying to say he is unable to detect any Mongoloid or that Mongoloid ancestry when in a solution of Caucasoid greatly resembles UPs? Is she "white enough" to be your wife, Frans? Do you find her appealing?

goidelicwarrior
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 04:18 PM
This has to be the quote of the month, LOL. :lol

I thought these views where limited to SF... :D

Loki
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 04:21 PM
I thought these views where limited to SF... :D

We do still make time for humour every now and then ;P

Prodigal Son
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 04:30 PM
A small minority of Ukrainians (>5%), who tend to be darker than their Polish and Russian neighbours, who I have encountered look to be of questionable racial composition


There is a small enclave of a Turanid racial type in Deniperopetrovsk, Eastern Ukraine (Leonid Brezhnev is a good example of this type). Of course, these people are very much in the minority, much as I would expect Turanid individuals in Hungary to be.

xïa
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 11:43 AM
Interesting. Thank you for your comments. I am studying Radiation Therapy Technology - not Anthropology. Please send me a message of you´d like.

Some of my Karelian relatives were named Turunen - Turanid? ;)

I almost look exactly like my father. I was treated for Nasopharyngeal Cancer last year, at Stanford Hospital.

I have never been in South East Asia, Northern Africa, Alaska or Greenland were it is most common.

My cheekbones are more prominent today than before, partly due to my age. The picture you were viewing (above) was taken during my last month of treatment, and my "tanned" complexion is from 9000 GY given to may face and neck.

No one ever have said that I am Mongoloid. I never thought so myself.

All of you know that East Asian genes are found in many places, and people of (or that have ancestors from) Eastern Europe, Russia and Northern Europe are said to have the most.

Perhaps some of those 23% are not all from my mother. What about my Wallachian, Macedonian/Bulgarian family? The percentage may be rather low.

http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Papers/p2.htm

I do not resemble that Ostiak woman. Besides, she is not a Saami person. I never mentioned that I belong to that culture either.

I understand there are disapproval and displeasure, but what´s the point...

I never said that I am beautiful, quite the contrary. This is hilarious!

Awar
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 01:56 PM
I don't see any mongoloid ancestry in your phenotype, except maybe for the cheekbones.
I know a mexican woman who's got the generally similar shape of the head, but I've always thought that to be rather UP looking.

Anyway, the last picture you posted is no good for classification, as there is too much distraction :D

Frans_Jozef
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 02:27 PM
Mestizos come in various mixtures, often with Negroid tinges, but I use the term mestizo in exclusion of that as far as I can discern unless mentioned. I'm not merely talking about half-breeds, but various levels of Amerindian. I've seen enough of them to know that she does resemble one that is more on the Caucasoid side, perhaps 25-10% Amerindian.

She has enough peculiarities to distinguish herself from a pure UP, IMO. If we saw more pictures of her at different angles too, I think it would be more clear.

Is the great Frans (joking :)) trying to say he is unable to detect any Mongoloid or that Mongoloid ancestry when in a solution of Caucasoid greatly resembles UPs? Is she "white enough" to be your wife, Frans? Do you find her appealing?


Wie het laatste lacht, lacht het best
= he laughs best who laughs last...

I was going to tell you that we both are able enough to discern true and mingled Mongolid traits from incipient, but not evolved Mongoloidism.
Furthermore, she reminds me of a young Saami girl who I saw in an article on the Saami people in a Dutch scientific magazine, her wide malars and eye form reminiscent too of that Ostiak woman, displayed here:

http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Papers/p2.htm

But we, the Great Frans and Marcus the Inquisitor, got it both sadly wrong, like others, fellow members and associates, verging on an iniquity...which should ashame us...but I came(as often :glasses) however virtually close to the truth....
But there's always another opportunity to beat me...;-)

Frans_Jozef
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 02:42 PM
Is the great Frans (joking :)) trying to say he is unable to detect any Mongoloid or that Mongoloid ancestry when in a solution of Caucasoid greatly resembles UPs? Is she "white enough" to be your wife, Frans? Do you find her appealing?

Hypothetical question, besides she's already somebody's wife...:)

Frans_Jozef
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 07:03 PM
Wie het laatste lacht, lacht het best
= he laughs best who laughs last...

I was going to tell you that we both are able enough to discern true and mingled Mongolid traits from incipient, but not evolved Mongoloidism.
Furthermore, she reminds me of a young Saami girl who I saw in an article on the Saami people in a Dutch scientific magazine, her wide malars and eye form reminiscent too of that Ostiak woman, displayed here:

http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Papers/p2.htm

But we, the Great Frans and Marcus the Inquisitor, got it both sadly wrong, like others, fellow members and associates, verging on an iniquity...which should ashame us...but I came(as often :glasses) however virtually close to the truth....
But there's always another opportunity to beat me...;-)

Considering the ordeal Xia has gone through and affected her appearance and burdened her life, I reckon on your Southern gentlemanship to apologize towards her for some brutal, demeaning insinuations in your last entry....she deserves it, be good and play the better man, Mark...

Nordhammer
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 07:27 PM
Hypothetical question, besides she's already somebody's wife...:)




Yes, it was hypothetical of course.

How nice for you, I hope it works out. All the best.

Nordhammer
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 07:35 PM
Considering the ordeal Xia has gone through and affected her appearance and burdened her life, I reckon on your Southern gentlemanship to apologize towards her for some brutal, demeaning insinuations in your last entry....she deserves it, be good and play the better man, Mark...

I was unaware of any ordeal, and I try to be sympathetic and empathetic. I was under the impression she was nearly 1/4 Mongoloid by a DNA test? So I don't know how my statement would be insulting to find a similarity?

I didn't say it to be insulting, I have no cause and don't know this kind lady. In my mind, I did see a similarity, but perhaps people see the word mestizo as being derogatory in nature (I do not intend it this way). BTW, I wasn't implying she was a mestizo, only that I've seen some women who are white-Amerindian mixes, who are somewhat similar. But, as I said, the majority of people would say she is white and not question her, as she claims is her experience.

If I have offended Xia, I sincerely apologize.

Frans_Jozef
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 08:05 PM
I was unaware of any ordeal, and I try to be sympathetic and empathetic. I was under the impression she was nearly 1/4 Mongoloid by a DNA test? So I don't know how my statement would be insulting to find a similarity?

I didn't say it to be insulting, I have no cause and don't know this kind lady. In my mind, I did see a similarity, but perhaps people see the word mestizo as being derogatory in nature (I do not intend it this way). BTW, I wasn't implying she was a mestizo, only that I've seen some women who are white-Amerindian mixes, who are somewhat similar. But, as I said, the majority of people would say she is white and not question her, as she claims is her experience.

If I have offended Xia, I sincerely apologize.


It's all right, Mark, I know Xia will appreciate your noble gesture.
Thanks again!

Evolved
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 11:41 PM
I classify her as Lappoid (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=2030) with minor silicone admixture. :dlook

xïa
Wednesday, October 8th, 2003, 01:17 AM
And how should we classify ladygoeth33?



These remarks were sweet:

Post #38
Saamis are hot little bundles of sexual energy. :naughty

Post #43
After looking at hundreds of pictures of Sámis, I have to conclude that the majority are "white" and several of them are attractive to me.

__________________


Lappoid (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=2030)


Friday, February 14th, 2003
Re: Oh my God! Post #15
Liz

Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jotunheim
[B]Is it just me or is this just a little bit sad, I mean come on! By saying 'oh I'm glad I don't have any Lapps in my family' is a bit of a twattish thing to say. Personaly I couldn't give a f*ck where some of my relatives come from in Europe as long as they're decent folk, work hard and WHITE!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quite frankly I agree with you! My initial post was in response to LadyGoeth's calling Meds "trash" (which was deleted by a moderator) when she herself has admitted to having Sami blood in her. As far as I can tell, Sami's aren't "white" so I thought it was ironic she would call anyone else trash.

Evolved
Wednesday, October 8th, 2003, 03:03 AM
A malicious, mischievious, maladjusted, merrily mad Magyar midget.

I thought everyone here was aware of my ancestors' intimate indiscretions. ;)

About me (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=23374)

I'm either Subnordic or East Baltic. :)

Vojvoda
Wednesday, October 8th, 2003, 03:08 AM
A malicious, mischievious, maladjusted, merrily mad Magyar midget.

I thought everyone here was aware of my ancestors' intimate indiscretions. ;)

About me (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=23374)

I'm either Subnordic or East Baltic. :)

Hm, maybe volksdeutsche was right about your classification. Pontid/EB/Turanid, right?

Awar
Wednesday, October 8th, 2003, 03:39 AM
Your head is too narrow to be EB, and I think that sub-nordics are a mix with med and dinarics.

I think you could be some Ladogan-Nordic mix.
Your side picture is definitely Ladogan.

xïa
Wednesday, October 8th, 2003, 04:07 AM
That´s great you got it all pinned down, to the bottom of the nail.

I couldn´t say the same, more than Hongain Kesella between Lake Ladoga and Lake Pielinen, and an Hawaiian Guitar playing grandfather with a Kossack hat on top; owned 3 Mongolian camels, 25 horses and a female donkey in the lead of the caravan...

I´ll never say no to the people of Székelyföld.

Awar
Wednesday, October 8th, 2003, 04:11 AM
Eh... after all those Hawaiian rapes of Russian people in the 24th century ADC... who will know...

Evolved
Thursday, October 9th, 2003, 03:28 AM
Hm, maybe volksdeutsche was right about your classification. Pontid/EB/Turanid, right?

I kind of doubt there is anything Turanid about me. Because I'm 1/8 Turkic? I posted pics of my ancestor, she was Alpinid (http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3178). It's a case of someone taking ethnic information and reading too much into it or seeing what they assume should be there, something we're even cautioned against (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=2456) doing ourselves.


The approach is racial (phenotype, genotype and idiotype) and not based on ethnicites.

Loki
Thursday, October 9th, 2003, 10:23 AM
I kind of doubt there is anything Turanid about me. Because I'm 1/8 Turkic? I posted pics of my ancestor, she was Alpinid (http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3178). It's a case of someone taking ethnic information and reading too much into it or seeing what they assume should be there, something we're even cautioned against (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=2456) doing ourselves.

May I ask, who is the girl in the picture you attached? Surely it isn't you? :)

Frans_Jozef
Thursday, October 9th, 2003, 10:56 AM
I kind of doubt there is anything Turanid about me. Because I'm 1/8 Turkic? I posted pics of my ancestor, she was Alpinid (http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3178). It's a case of someone taking ethnic information and reading too much into it or seeing what they assume should be there, something we're even cautioned against (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=2456) doing ourselves.

The Alpinid element in Hungary has two primary sources:

a. the Celtic invasions

b. the Austrian-Bavarian influx in the 13th century

For instance, Buda was a greatly by Germanics populated city, which had translated itselves in the language, architecture and institutions of the municipality.
The first list of magistrates of Buda(1292) indicates that two-thirds of its members were of German extraction.

Frans_Jozef
Thursday, October 9th, 2003, 01:05 PM
The Alpinid element in Hungary has two primary sources:

a. the Celtic invasions

b. the Austrian-Bavarian influx in the 13th century

For instance, Buda was a greatly by Germanics populated city, which had translated itselves in the language, architecture and institutions of the municipality.
The first list of magistrates of Buda(1292) indicates that two-thirds of its members were of German extraction.

The Dinaric section of the Hungarian population will have predominantly the same origin.
What emerges as problematic, the high-vault of the Gorids, should rather be connected to mixtures with East baltids and Dinarics, providing that a high vault may express dominance over a lower vault.
However, during the Roman occupation and the reign of Trajanus(AD 103-107), Lower Pannonia, benifited greatly from the progression of Roman civilization and many traders and Romans who had fought in military campaigns and retired as veterans, where alloted country estates, and after the devastating barbaric raids on Aquintum(= Budapest; capital of Lower Pannonia) during the period AD 160-180, the city got rebuild and attracted columns of traders and artisans from North Africa, Hither Asia and the Balkan.
It wouldn't surprise me if they account for some semi-Armenoid traits, which in combination with the Alpines and East Baltics resulted in alledged survivals of Turanids, etc.

Frans_Jozef
Thursday, October 9th, 2003, 01:09 PM
The Dinaric section of the Hungarian population will have predominantly the same origin.
What emerges as problematic, the high-vault of the Gorids, should rather be connected to mixtures with East baltids and Dinarics, providing that a high vault may express dominance over a lower vault.
However, during the Roman occupation and the reign of Trajanus(AD 103-107), Lower Pannonia, benifited greatly from the progression of Roman civilization and many traders and Romans who had fought in military campaigns and retired as veterans, where alloted country estates, and after the devastating barbaric raids on Aquintum(= Budapest; capital of Lower Pannonia) during the period AD 160-180, the city got rebuild and attracted columns of traders and artisans from North Africa, Hither Asia and the Balkan.
It wouldn't surprise me if they account for some semi-Armenoid traits, which in combination with the Alpines and East Baltics resulted in alledged survivals of Turanids, etc.

The presence of Roman functionaries and merchants could have brought a high-vaulted Alpinoid, thick-set, brunet type with dome-shaped lateral built vault profile over, which in the Italian school of anthropology is known as the tipo Campano, which makes up an important and compliment element in the Italian Mezzogiorno from the maritime Abruzze to the heel of the peninsula.

Frans_Jozef
Thursday, October 9th, 2003, 02:04 PM
A malicious, mischievious, maladjusted, merrily mad Magyar midget.

I thought everyone here was aware of my ancestors' intimate indiscretions. ;)

About me (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=23374)

I'm either Subnordic or East Baltic. :)

Weichselrasse, perhaps?
The mesocephalic variety of the East Baltid race...

Vojvoda
Thursday, October 9th, 2003, 03:29 PM
I kind of doubt there is anything Turanid about me. Because I'm 1/8 Turkic? I posted pics of my ancestor, she was Alpinid (http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3178). It's a case of someone taking ethnic information and reading too much into it or seeing what they assume should be there, something we're even cautioned against (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=2456) doing ourselves.

I was merely stating his classification of you. I would say you are predominately East Baltid as well.

Prodigal Son
Thursday, October 9th, 2003, 05:05 PM
Weichselrasse, perhaps?
The mesocephalic variety of the East Baltid race...

Interesting, could you tell us more about it? Russian anthropologists recognize a mesocephalic East-Baltid variant, which they term "White Sea-Baltic".

Awar
Thursday, October 9th, 2003, 05:08 PM
BTW. Frans, I love your Avatar, just remind me of the name of that US painter.

Frans_Jozef
Thursday, October 9th, 2003, 06:54 PM
Interesting, could you tell us more about it? Russian anthropologists recognize a mesocephalic East-Baltid variant, which they term "White Sea-Baltic".

Indeed, alas, there's not much written about the Vistulian race, but it would be prominent in SE Poland and other parts southernly from areas occupied by the East Baltid race.
Lundman declares it a mystery, but imo his Savolaxid race might be identical to the Vistulian and not as he assumed to the Subnordic race, which Deniker on his maps allots to NW Germany, SW Norway and Central East England.

Frans_Jozef
Thursday, October 9th, 2003, 06:56 PM
BTW. Frans, I love your Avatar, just remind me of the name of that US painter.

Edward Hopper, I am in love with his work...the introspective way melancholy and lonesomeness is translated on the canvas, that chilly atmosphere which lingers in its works, plain brilliant and compelling!

Awar
Thursday, October 9th, 2003, 09:15 PM
Fantastic painter, one of my favourites.
My most favourite is of course Egon Schiele. :D

Anyway, what are the divisions of the Sub-Nordic and Keltic-Nordic type?

I know about the Aran type ( they look a lot like some Albanians ).

Evolved
Friday, October 10th, 2003, 05:30 AM
May I ask, who is the girl in the picture you attached? Surely it isn't you? :)

No, just a blonde Turkish Turanid girl for comparison purposes. :)

Frans_Jozef
Friday, October 10th, 2003, 10:02 AM
Fantastic painter, one of my favourites.
My most favourite is of course Egon Schiele. :D

Anyway, what are the divisions of the Sub-Nordic and Keltic-Nordic type?

I know about the Aran type ( they look a lot like some Albanians ).

It depends what one wants to understand under "Sub-Nordic", Deniker conceived this secondary race to the Nordids as their coarser, mesocephalic, rather square-faced counterpart, i.e. what we call Faelid, Vastmanlandic, etc...

Montandon, however, describes a Europoid blond race, which consists of the proper Nordic race and the Sub-Nordics, which subdivides all races which aren't equally blond and light-eyed, in casu Deniker's Subdinaric or Nordic race, the North Atlandids, Paudler's Dalo-Nordics, the East Baltids, etc...I haven't read yet his books, but I am not sure whether this includes the Nordics altered by Alpine infusion, like SNPA does, on the other hand, it might, since the Alpines and Dinarics are in his racial scheme linked together.

The French anti-war writer Henri Barbusse was in his opinion SN.

Frans_Jozef
Friday, October 10th, 2003, 10:06 AM
It depends what one wants to understand under "Sub-Nordic", Deniker conceived this secondary race to the Nordids as their coarser, mesocephalic, rather square-faced counterpart, i.e. what we call Faelid, Vastmanlandic, etc...

Montandon, however, describes a Europoid blond race, which consists of the proper Nordic race and the Sub-Nordics, which subdivides all races which aren't equally blond and light-eyed, in casu Deniker's Subdinaric or Nordic race, the North Atlandids, Paudler's Dalo-Nordics, the East Baltids, etc...I haven't read yet his books, but I am not sure whether this includes the Nordics altered by Alpine infusion, like SNPA does, on the other hand, it might, since the Alpines and Dinarics are in his racial scheme linked together.

The French anti-war writer Henri Barbusse was in his opinion SN.


http://louisferdinandceline.free.fr/indexthe/antisem/montandon.htm

Frans_Jozef
Friday, October 10th, 2003, 12:27 PM
The presence of Roman functionaries and merchants could have brought a high-vaulted Alpinoid, thick-set, brunet type with dome-shaped lateral built vault profile over, which in the Italian school of anthropology is known as the tipo Campano, which makes up an important and compliment element in the Italian Mezzogiorno from the maritime Abruzze to the heel of the peninsula.

Wow, plenty of comments and observations on this ethno-racial treatise, I wonder if I can manage to answer them all... ;(

Awar
Friday, October 10th, 2003, 03:54 PM
hmm.....either I'm senile, or someone deleted my post.
Again, I'd like to state that I don't have anything against Albanians, but it's a relatively well-known fact that they have some pro-inbreeding laws in their law-book, the Canun.

I didn't say this to offend anyone, just to point out how similar some Albanians look compared to people from Aran island.

Glenlivet
Friday, October 10th, 2003, 04:18 PM
Ok, you do not like my classification. I do not know what type you are then. Sub-Nordid is a label for Alpinids with a Nordid strain, and perhaps only relevant for France. Borreby might be relevant if with that we mean Fenno-Nordid. I do not think that you are Fenno-Nordid though. Frans can help more. The photos where one can see your facial features better is the one where you are lying down and a profile which was sent to the racial_studies forum some months ago. I do not have them now. Could you post those again? Maybe that could help people to evaluate what type your resemble the most.

Do you have any photos of those Bashkirian ancestors?

I apologise if I hurt you with saying Turanid. I thought that you like Turanids. But I saw some of the exotic traits before you told us about your ancestors. I am trying to be objective.

Take care :)







I kind of doubt there is anything Turanid about me. Because I'm 1/8 Turkic? I posted pics of my ancestor, she was Alpinid (http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3178). It's a case of someone taking ethnic information and reading too much into it or seeing what they assume should be there, something we're even cautioned against (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=2456) doing ourselves.

Evolved
Saturday, October 11th, 2003, 05:46 AM
Ok, you do not like my classification.

I don't dislike your classification, I just don't agree with it. I don't dislike Turanids, either. Some eastern types (http://www.kiszely.hu/istvan_dr/016.html). The supposedly Turanid girl shown doesn't strike me as being very mongoloid at all. The seem to be confused about East Baltids as well. There's a lot of interesting info there I'm sure, maybe I can get a rough translation of it. ;)

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3178

In this picture is my great-grandmother (Bashkir) and great-grandfather (British-French). Behind them, my great-grand father's sister and great-grandmother's brother. She looks either Alpine or Uralic to me.

My natural color, dark ashy blonde: :)

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3602&stc=1&thumb=1

Here's me in all my color variations: :)

Frans_Jozef
Saturday, October 11th, 2003, 09:41 AM
I don't dislike your classification, I just don't agree with it. I don't dislike Turanids, either. Some eastern types (http://www.kiszely.hu/istvan_dr/016.html). The supposedly Turanid girl shown doesn't strike me as being very mongoloid at all. The seem to be confused about East Baltids as well. There's a lot of interesting info there I'm sure, maybe I can get a rough translation of it. ;)

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3178

In this picture is my great-grandmother (Bashkir) and great-grandfather (British-French). Behind them, my great-grand father's sister and great-grandmother's brother. She looks either Alpine or Uralic to me.

My natural color, dark ashy blonde: :)

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3602&stc=1&thumb=1

Here's me in all my color variations: :)


I am sceptic too in finding a Turanid strain in you, but while I hold you mainly as East Baltid, what sets you apart is the vault is flat-topped, where one would expect that the hindpart inclines slightly above bregma.
The malars are incredible full and wide, but your face is both large and relatively high, with a jutting chin; the modifications towards mesocephaly and this kind of large face could imo only be produced by some large-headed Cromagnid element.

Here's a girl on ICQ(no, no, not one of my ..friends...) with some suspicious Turanoid countenance, the latter is a more gracile version of LG:

Evolved
Saturday, October 11th, 2003, 10:23 AM
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3692
Neo-Danubian, maybe? She reminds me of Anna Kournikova, a boyish little tart who looks nothing like me at all. :D

Frans_Jozef
Saturday, October 11th, 2003, 12:18 PM
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3692
Neo-Danubian, maybe? She reminds me of Anna Kournikova, a boyish little tart who looks nothing like me at all. :D


Perhaps, I don't find her face particular snubnosed and low-rooted and while it's difficult to judge from that one picture, I doubt her head is high-domed and globular as in the case of the Neo-Danubian race.

Frans_Jozef
Saturday, October 11th, 2003, 01:31 PM
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3692
Neo-Danubian, maybe? She reminds me of Anna Kournikova, a boyish little tart who looks nothing like me at all. :D

How would you classify this woman; my first thought when I saw her picture was that she might be a distant relative of yours, though brunet and a rounder outline of her face, some facial lines and the in-laid expression are reminiscent of you ;-)

http://web.icq.com/whitepages/about_me/1,,,00.html?Uin=169404129

She mixes the basic Central European EB and Alpine elements perfectly.

Pomor
Saturday, October 11th, 2003, 05:00 PM
The only thing I can say is that Ladygoeth is predominantly UP. Her head-shape however looks very interesting if not to say alien :jk (no offense LG :-)). I am talking about the frontal part - her forehead almost makes a straight corner with the top of the head.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3688

Never saw a girl with such a forehead. And yeah, I dont see anything Turanid or Bashkir about her though I've met lots of those, if I was asked to guess where she was from I would have said Germany.

Nordhammer
Saturday, October 11th, 2003, 08:46 PM
She looks pretty good to me! I'm going to ICQ her myself! ;)

Loki
Saturday, October 11th, 2003, 09:20 PM
Never saw a girl with such a forehead.

Not every girl I know's forehead is burdened with such a generous apportionment of IQ.

Nordhammer
Saturday, October 11th, 2003, 10:29 PM
Not every girl I know's forehead is burdened with such a generous apportionment of IQ.

I love a girl with large frontal lobes. :heartbeat:heartbeat

Evolved
Sunday, October 12th, 2003, 02:29 AM
How would you classify this woman; my first thought when I saw her picture was that she might be a distant relative of yours, though brunet and a rounder outline of her face, some facial lines and the in-laid expression are reminiscent of you ;-)

She looks like my older sister. :)


Her head-shape however looks very interesting if not to say alien

No offence taken. :grey