View Full Version : "Gengis Kahn Effect": Irish Male Had More Than 3 Million Descendants!

Tuesday, January 17th, 2006, 11:17 PM
DUBLIN (Reuters) - Scientists in Ireland may have found the country's most fertile male, with more than 3 million men worldwide among his offspring.

The scientists, from Trinity College Dublin, have discovered that as many as one in twelve Irish men could be descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages, a 5th-century warlord who was head of the most powerful dynasty in ancient Ireland.

His genetic legacy is almost as impressive as Genghis Khan, the Mongol emperor who conquered most of Asia in the 13th century and has nearly 16 million descendants, said Dan Bradley, who supervised the research.

"It's another link between profligacy and power," Bradley told Reuters. "We're the first generation on the planet where if you're successful you don't (always) have more children."

The research was carried out by PhD student Laoise Moore, at the Smurfit Institute of Genetics at Trinity. Moore, testing the Y chromosome which is passed on from fathers to sons, examined DNA samples from 800 males across Ireland.

The results -- which have been published in the American Journal of Human Genetics -- showed the highest concentration of related males in northwest Ireland, where one in five males had the same Y chromosome.

Bradley said the results reminded the team of a similar study in central Asia, where scientists found 8 percent of men with the same Y chromosome. Subsequent studies found they shared the same chromosome as the dynasty linked to Genghis Khan.


"It made us wonder if there could be some sort of Genghis Khan effect in Ireland and the best candidate for it was Niall," Bradley said.

His team then consulted with genealogical experts who provided them with a contemporary list of people with surnames that are genealogically linked to the last known relative of the "Ui Neill" dynasty, which literally means descendants of Niall.

The results showed the new group had the same chromosome as those in the original sample, proving a link between them and the Niall descendants.

"The frequency (of the Y chromosome) was significantly higher in that genealogical group than any other group we tested," said Bradley, whose surname is also linked to the mediaeval warlord. Other modern surnames tracing their ancestry to Niall include Gallagher, Boyle, O'Donnell and O'Doherty.

For added proof, the scientists used special techniques to age the Y chromosome, according to how many mutations had occurred in the genetic material over time. The number of mutations was found to be in accordance with chromosomes that would date back to the last known living relative of Niall.

Niall reportedly had 12 sons, many of whom became powerful Irish kings themselves. But because he lived in the 5th century, there have been doubts the king -- who is said to have brought the country's patron saint, Patrick, to Ireland -- even existed.

"Before I would have said that characters like Niall were almost mythological, like King Arthur, but this actually puts flesh on the bones," Bradley said.

When international databases were checked, the chromosome also turned up in roughly 2 percent of all male New Yorkers.

Source (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/17012006/325/scientists-discover-most-fertile-irish-male.html)

Wednesday, January 18th, 2006, 01:03 AM
Well, that would be a real reproductive success. I hope he was a racially progressive individual ;)
Unfortunately there are no depictions of him available.

Wednesday, January 18th, 2006, 01:55 AM
Interesting that he only actually had 12 kids. I can't imagine any better legacy than having so many people descend from myself.

Wednesday, January 18th, 2006, 02:43 AM
Interesting that he only actually had 12 kids. I can't imagine any better legacy than having so many people descend from myself.

Thats the difference between males and females. Females can have approximately about 15 children on average if being healthy, though I know of cases of 20 and more children (even of one quite progressive Nordid mother, some of her children had higher education by the way). Males on the other hand can have (if fertile) much more children (in theory at least), if they have the corresponding access to females like f.e. some aristocrats in earlier times, pharaos etc. Proven are about 60 children in some cases.
This difference is crucial for the differences if its about sexuality in the male and female sex too beside the fact that a women has no win if dont caring about her children biologically, whereas some males might still win if not caring - depending on the exact framework.

Wednesday, January 18th, 2006, 03:47 AM
Hmm the difference is of course clear to me, a shame that I can't leave so many descendants :D But I am trying my best. :cool:

I once heard of an asian woman who had over 30 kids I think, which means it is certainly possible. I wouldn't want that many but leaving a genetic legacy is of course nice. I think about 5 per family is a good average for nordish people to maintain.

I think all of us progressive nordish people need to start having more kids. Follow this new way and our nordic race will soon start to flourish and the world will be a better place. Nordic men also have the option to donate sperm, there are pros and cons, but in the end I think it helps to spread nordic genes.

LOL I just found this:

According to The Guiness Book of World Records, a Russian peasant woman who lived in the 18th century holds the record for the most children born to one mother. She had sixty-nine children within forty years. She produced sixteen pairs of twins, seven sets of triplets, and four sets of quadruplets!

Wednesday, January 18th, 2006, 04:34 AM
Thats quite unusual, she must have been a hormonal beast ;) Not possible without some special genetic features.
To become dizygotic twins has a genetic component.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Wednesday, January 18th, 2006, 05:00 AM
Are there any paintings or descriptions of this guy? Maybe we could type him?

Wednesday, January 18th, 2006, 05:54 AM
Did anyone else think "Milesian" when they saw the title of this thread? :P

Wednesday, January 18th, 2006, 04:43 PM
To become dizygotic twins has a genetic component.

According to Rushton's research, Negroids have a higher chance of bearing twins than Mongoloids, with Europoids somewhere in between. It's interesting.

Wednesday, January 18th, 2006, 09:24 PM
According to Rushton's research, Negroids have a higher chance of bearing twins than Mongoloids, with Europoids somewhere in between. It's interesting.

Yes, I know. Probably there is a direct correlation with hormonal levels and general fertility.

Wednesday, January 18th, 2006, 09:27 PM
Proven are about 60 children in some cases.

Women with most children, though, was the wife of a Russian general. She lived from 1707-1780 (I believe), and had 69 children (in 27 goes)between 1725 and 1765. 16 sets of twins, 7 sets of triplets, 4 sets of quadruplets. Now that's what I call fertile. ;)

Monday, February 6th, 2006, 01:53 PM
It will come as no suprise that this guy is an ancestor of mine - Northern Ui Neill here ;)