PDA

View Full Version : Your Favorite WII Gun?



WaffenSS
Tuesday, August 6th, 2002, 04:01 PM
I would like to know your opinions on the best weapon of world war two. be it a tank a gun a plane, whatever. what are your favorites:peng

WaffenSS
Tuesday, August 6th, 2002, 07:32 PM
Yes i can. thank you

sarreti
Tuesday, August 6th, 2002, 07:53 PM
Ah the Sturmgewehr, too bad it wasn't around long enough to do much good.

I'd have to say the M1 for the simple reason that no other single shot rifle was like it at the time. Drop in your clip, fire as fast as you could pull the trigger.

Best Bolt action goes to the mauser, favorite handgun goes to the 1911.

jab
Wednesday, August 7th, 2002, 08:29 PM
:willi Well the 1911 colt certainly is my fav ww2 handgun. i just
don't like the ,battle sights. i prefere to have Target sights added. also if you load with 7 rather than 6 rounds it sometimes jams. which
could be a drawback. however the .45 round is best, it maybe
of slow vel, but it makes a big hole the blood pours out and
the enemy dies. the Stens got be the best cheapest mass
produced mpi. even the Germans made a copy version. they
only used different welding techhiques in its making.
Now the potatomasher. a German comrade of mine asked me
recently about a mural in Belfast of a sign' Brits beware' with
a masked man holding a stick grenade, he wanted to know
if it is based on German Stick grenades. well heres how
there made. an empty can ,a handle, sure they resemble
each other but they differ heres how. about 3 ounces of semtex and a
a hollow copper cone.' put the gear in the cone . now later when
used the metal turns molten and becomes armour pierceing.
it can pierce two inches of steel. which could knock out. a
Lepard 2 German battle tank bigtime. I not sure about cobham
armour though. the firing mech is a point 22 round left
next to a pin .the striking force when the grenade hits the tank sets it off.
the .22 round detonating the semtex . the cone turns and
pierces the armour. also added to stablise it when thrown
is a dove tail ribbon to steady it in flight. best tactic is to drop
it from a fly- over onto an armoured car beneath. anyway.
I am sure the German potatomasher is a lot more complex
but i don't think its got anti-armour capability
but the stick sure makes it easier to throw.x_hehe
88 jab

88and308
Thursday, August 8th, 2002, 03:29 AM
Rifle: Toss-up between the StuGw 44 and the Garand.

Tank: PkW IV (the tank destroyer version sans turret) It's not the best, but (imo) it's the coolest. :)

Aircraft: the ME-262.

Ships: Iowa-class battleships and the LSTs.

Speaking of these details...anyone ever play Advanced Squad Leader? The guys (at Avalon Hill) who made this game were the first people that ever said a kind word about the Nazis...and even though they got flamed for it, their response was absolutely true, and caused me to break out of my "PC" school thinking. They used actual measurements from the tanks or drawings to develop their armor charts...interesting to see how a long-barrelled 88 gun slices through the Sherman's armor...

Gunnar
Friday, August 9th, 2002, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by jab
well heres how
there made. an empty can ,a handle, sure they resemble
each other but they differ heres how. about 3 ounces of semtex and a
a hollow copper cone.' put the gear in the cone . now later when
used the metal turns molten and becomes armour pierceing.
it can pierce two inches of steel. which could knock out. a
Lepard 2 German battle tank bigtime.



:erm

Sure - knock out the world's best MBT by some home-made explosive ordnance the size of a can. :rolleyes:


As for the WWII guns:

I think no other WWII firearm had such a large impact on modern weapon design as the MG-42. Furthermore, it's been in service for 60 years and still is one of the best MGs out there (today known as the MG-3)!

jab
Saturday, August 10th, 2002, 01:41 PM
x_p the Lepard Tank does not have Cobham armour so i would
not say it is the best tank. the armour pireceing grenade has been
used sucessfully on armoured cars. The Brits do not deploy
mbts in the six counties. home made weapons are pretty
sophisticated in ireland. we also have horozontal mortars
I reckon i would have a go with it. pity i can't find out
Does the Lepard have more than Two inchs of steel
armour plate Gunnar?88 jab

Gunnar
Saturday, August 10th, 2002, 02:04 PM
The Leo 2 has won every contest and shoot-out it ever took part in, thus I have every right to call it the best MBT in the world.
Or how do you explain the fact that virtually any Western country looking for a new MBT has chosen the Leopard 2 and not the M1 or Challenger?
BTW, its armor is of course equivalent to Chobham, and even if it wasn't it's still WAY (probably 5 times or more) tougher than ordinary steel.
No matter if its rear or top armor is thinner than 2 inch (which probably is the case), it is supposed to keep off light AT missiles and artillery shelling, and I can't imagine a little home-made grenade doing as much damage.

I mean, of course it may damage the tracks of a MBT and thus demobilize it, but I see no direct danger for the crew.

A shame we are not able to check it out :D

heilhitler88
Saturday, August 10th, 2002, 02:29 PM
In opinion the Challenger2 is the best tank in the world.Armed with a deadly round (HESH) and other it can do more damage then smoothbore HEAT & AP fired rounds and also 120mm rifled barrel HESH rounds have much better range.The only thing bad about the Challenger2 is she is too damm heavy.



http://www.army.mod.uk/img/royalyeomanry/images/Challenger2.jpg

Gunnar
Saturday, August 10th, 2002, 03:31 PM
Dunno - rifled barrel means lower bullet velocity. Sabot rounds fired by such a cannon are definitely weaker than those fired by a smoothbore gun. I also believe the barrel of the Challenger is shorter than the Rheinmetall L/55.

The lack of speed is definitely one of the Challenger's disadvantages. On the other hand it might have an advantage in terms of armor (2nd generation Chobham) - but I am not sure on this one, as the Leopard 2A6 has quite a sophisticated turret armor system.

If you wish to continue the MBT discussion we should open an own thread rather than highjacking this one ;)

WaffenSS
Saturday, August 10th, 2002, 04:36 PM
By all means continue on this one. I find it interesting.

jab
Saturday, August 10th, 2002, 08:12 PM
:o well going up against a MBT with a grenade is somethinig to
be avoided. However don't forget sometimes Tank commanders
are ordered into Built up areas where yes the Tracks could
be demoblised with the Grenade. However the Allied intel
supplied the knowhow to make this weapon to the Kuwaiti Resistence in the
Gulf War in 1990. their tactic to drop it on the Iraqi soviet made
(old type MBTs mainly) from motorway Flyovers onto the Tanks
passing beneath . The Engine at the rear vunerable i guess.
The Flyover attack tried and tested in Ulster.
The IRA Leadership is a load of cunning Jewboys. They use
Engineers. to make these weapons professionaly at secretly.
locations. Its the young patiots taken in by their Marxist patriot
bullshit who have had to go out and use these improvised
weapons against the British Army who i felt sorry for. they
have no idea who the Engineers are.... They(theIRA) also have a rocket Launcher they Manufacture its
launcher nicely balanced but you need to be about 30 yards
away to be sure of a hit, and i would not go up against a
leo with it. mind you don't forget the sucide fanatic who the
arabs especially bullshit (their people) into taking you out with.
and dieing at the same time.
Ok The Leo being the Oldest of the allied design would
probaly be the best seller. But is not the Challenger2 still made
of a secret restricted Material which they the Brits would not
want to sell anyway?,,, Unforunatel I cannot go to Tanks Shows
, as the Brits still want me. I got sick of American
Vietnam Vets and Rangers Bugging Me to work for them when
in the states. so no shows there either. Anyway I guess that
limits my knowledge of Modern MBTS. I saw The M1 at a truck
stop some Civvie was hauling for the US Army. Just to bear
in mind production numbers and Fuel availability resources
limit a battle as in WW2. the Germans could not win in the
Battle for production numbers. Quantity not quality the
Hallmark of the Soviets and their T34 :willi 88 JAB

Gunnar
Sunday, August 11th, 2002, 01:34 PM
I know of Russian AT grenades that include a small parachute that stabilizes the grenade in the air to make sure the warhead hits the top of the tank from a 90° angle. These grenades contain a little HEAT warhead and can penetrate 165mm of steel. If the infrastructure of the IRA is as good as you described it, maybe their grenade designs are equal and can really pose a threat to an MBT, who knows...



Originally posted by jab

Ok The Leo being the Oldest of the allied design would
probaly be the best seller. But is not the Challenger2 still made
of a secret restricted Material which they the Brits would not
want to sell anyway?,,, Unforunatel I cannot go to Tanks Shows
, as the Brits still want me.


I myself haven't attented any international tank shows either, the only MBT I have seen in action so far was the Leopard. Most of my sources concerning British or American tanks are books, army magazines and websites.
AFAIK the Brits use improved 2nd gen Chobham armor that is supposed to be equal to the DU armor of the M1. But I have also heard the Americans wanted to buy the turret armor of the Leopard... guess it's pretty difficult to tell which armor is superior.




May I ask, whom do you currently work for? Are you a sniper in the British army? Are you stationed in Northern Ireland?

jab
Monday, August 12th, 2002, 01:35 PM
:o Well theres a Y shaped cloth attachment on this AP
grenade to steady it in flight. I don't work for anyone
I am a concerned WN mainly. I was never in the British
Military,. I don't normally cross the Border into Northern
Ireland.
May i ask who you work for? :willi
88 jab

Gunnar
Friday, August 16th, 2002, 03:28 PM
German Bundeswehr, airforce infantry to be precise.
But I am just a conscript, and I'll try to avoid any out-of-area deployment, cause I don't support the course of our government.

Ritter
Friday, August 16th, 2002, 04:03 PM
:applauds Gunnar:

Way to stand up for your principles! :)
What is your rank called? (auf deutsch)

Gunnar
Friday, August 16th, 2002, 04:19 PM
I am still "Flieger", which is equal to "Schütze" in the army... but it will improve soon :)

jab
Friday, August 16th, 2002, 06:58 PM
:lurk . Well i have served in the Volunteer Reserve Defense
Force,(FCA) In Ireland The Field Military Police,. I was forced
to choose which side i was a Player on, in the cause of
National Unity. Not having a crimmnal record I was ordered
to join this FCA to get Military Training. However people
like me get Targeted by the British Security service MI5.
They of course hope to get their big chance of getting
me with the SAS. By proxy they use NATO forces, in
security operations to shadow Players like me. all over the world
I have had Germans :willi Norwegiansx_zzz and
all sorts of Americans, Vietnam Vets . Navy and
Delta, all Target me . Their Delta :( was scary a 2 meter
tall giant who tried to pick a fight with me, They've offered
me Women, Drugs and a brand new Harley. to find out
whats going on, Hell even the Russians (communists)
where interested in debriefing me when i returned from
the States. I was asked to go to Russia as a NATIONALIST
because the Communists know i hate their politics,
I have quite an experience of Intel Ops, anyway
x_yawn We better get back to the Topic subject
Here's my favorite ww2 rifle a mark 4 lee Enfield
you can load 10 rounds into it from clips so its had
that advantage :D over the Mauser, only holding 5
The bolt can be smoothly worked from your shoulder
for rapid fire. the only thinig i did not like was the rear
sight was too large, its loop difficult to get a bead on
for an aimed shot. well Gunnar do you think your
Mauser was better. ?:D . I would also like to know
your views on The AUG styer, FN 7.62, Gustav sub Machine Gun
and Glock Pistol. as these are not really ww2 , I wonder if we Should start a different thread.:) on them 88 JAB

Gunnar
Saturday, August 17th, 2002, 01:55 PM
The Kar 98 was famous for its incredible reliabilty rather than an outstanding performance or a particularly elaborate design.
I think the Enfield rifle with its cylindrical breech mechanism was technically superior. Higher ROF, larger magazine - but also slightly heavier, IIRC.


The Stgw. 77/Steyr AUG is probably one of the best 5.56mm rifles out there and the only decent Bullbup construction I can think of. It's what I'd issue to conscript soldiers or reservists that are not able to handle a real 7.62mm battle rifle. You probably need some time to get used to it, though. (no fire mode selector :eek: )
Myself I'd still prefer a G36 cause of its better sights.


As for the FN FAL, well, I think it's the best battle rifle there is, together with the G3. For an experienced soldier it can be a much more useful tool than any 5.56mm gun. Who needs burst fire... ;)


Carl Gustav SMG? I don't know much about it except that it uses 9mm rounds and looks something like a Sten, sorry. Might also mix it up with another gun, though.


Which Glock pistol do you mean?
The Glock 17 is a nice handgun, if you are satisfied with the 9mm caliber. I'd still prefer a Sig Sauer or a .45 cal gun like the USP.
The Glock 18 is an interesting handgun, too, for it is one of the few pistols that are able to shoot burst fire. But I doubt this option makes much sense in real combat.

jab
Saturday, August 17th, 2002, 07:14 PM
:lurk Well i believe the Glock 17 comes in different calibres .40
as well . The double stacked Mag carries an impressive number of rounds.
Easy to clean breaks down into a few pieces, no saftey catch
though. i guess its simply the Best.I don't really think a burst
fireing pistol an advantage, my trigger finger goes fast enough.
I wonder if its suitable for a body armour pierceing round
like a Magnum. :peng
The Carl Gustav is Sten type smg. It has a folding stock.its Mag
points down, The Swedes supplied a nice four mag holding
pouch with it. can take 32 rounds but mag normally loaded
with 14. fully auto only, so its a light touch for single or double round burst. The Irish Army(Freestate) evolved from a Guerilla
Band so it has an annoying habit of issueing out only the same small number of weapons from the armoury .which get constantly used so their
barrels are shot to pieces and unaccurate. They have thousands
of SMGs never fired and stored in boxes from which they where
sent from Sweden and never opened. Gustav SMG Now withdrawn from service (they where useful for the females because of light blowback). quick change mag with bolt back
an advantage
In september i may get a chance to Train on the Steyr.
I am used to firing bursts on SMGs anyway. The Styer see-through
mag useful for knowing how many rounds left.
The FN 7.62 is issued with a fully auto switch catch in the FCA but we don't use it on full auto. Hard hitting round though. but its not suitable for females even with shorter rifle butt sizes. I feel Its too long a Rifle for me, I wonder about the French Bullpup though, its ejection port can be changed for a left handed user.
I wonder what type of rifle it is they use on the New Stargate SG9 series it seems an interesting bullpup? they have changed to it from H&k SMGs. I don't know anythinig about the G36 :viking. would you believe my unit still has the WW2 British BREN Gun LMG Still in service,FN 9mm semi-auto pistols also.
I like the M16 Colt its nicely balanced and light.
The Bullpup Barett .50 sniper is DEADLY :eek:
Me I would like nothinig better than an Olympic .22 Target competition
chance as i still have 20/20 vision and could really show my
skill. i was pleased to find that out than during my JAR medical for
my SPL . 88 jab

jab
Friday, August 23rd, 2002, 12:43 AM
:D well it seems you are taking this in the direction of a discussion
on Target sights. I am familiar with a shotgun which you can use
with both your eyes open looking each side of a thin aperature.
this weapon is a twelve shot revolver,with folding stock, used by the SA Police to fire teargas and bird shot combinations.
I am familiar with red dot scopes, the only thinig i wonder is that
in field conditions the battery sustained power source would
run out or get wet causeing malfunction:confused:
they are of limited use in combat, physcological effect against
fresh troops maybe. also you pointed out sights easily knocked off
balance. of course specialist sniper an exception its certainly a
scoped advantage.
The Amis are devoloping body heat sensors and nightvison equipment for infantrymen which will make enemy concealment
difficult. the next generation.
you missed out on my point of useing more powerful rounds
explosive , hollowpoint/dumdum, more powder/ magnum .357
or less powder biger round .45acp. i don't suppose you have
come across anyone who reloads their own ammo before.
I am quite an expert on S&W revolvers. replace wooden stock with a rubber one leads to increased grip and accuracy. i have
found .44 magum difficult to control after the first shot.
if you look up the WEBLY phosbury type pistol you will find an
interesting self cocking revolver.
Caseless ammo is sure to cause over heated barrels and therefore jamming :erm. I wonder about this FN SMG BULLPUP re British Army . i will stick to the guns my nation in arms issue.
It is my experience that in the sublety and complexity of Ireland that
wether Hardcore or not, we are all on the national Team. Loyalty
to my country would be difficult in the situation you suggest. The
British often drop people they use after their usefulness is gone.
Rank promotion, useful Educational qualifications are what i think
in ones long term good is what one should worry about.:willi
We work by teams made up of what we call our own Flesh and
blood meaning, cousins on different teams keeps our people loyal.
a man without family is nothinig. I would certainly be involved in
serious violence against anyone who threatened my family. but for nothinig else would i fight 88 :peng

Hellstar
Friday, August 23rd, 2002, 02:49 AM
Jab is it illegal in Ireland to own weapon for a normal citizen? I bet you have more liberal rules than over here. What does a nice gun on the street cost over there?

I must admit my knowledge about weapons are rather limited, Dont get me wrong I tried riffles/Pump guns/Gun but im more the physical type:D

Does old military papers in Ireland come in good advantage when dealing with purchasing or weapon licenses?

What is the difference in weapon policies in Ireland/England/Scotland.

I bet Ireland is most liberal.

Gunnar
Saturday, August 24th, 2002, 07:17 PM
I wish I had more time to take part in these online discussions, but unfortunately I can't post here but on weekends - which will soon change, cause I've been assigned a desk job at some medical central office x_zzz. I'll start working there in October.


@jab: I know snipers prefer to load their own rounds so they perfectly fit their demands, but you are right, manipulating rounds to turn them into dumdums doesn't exactly belong to the repertoire of the average Bundeswehr soldier ;)

The Webley revolver you spoke of - is it the model the Brits used back in WWI? It was one of the most powerful handguns of that time (0.445 inch :eek: ), and even German officers carried captured Webley revolvers if they could get their hands on them.
Today it comes as a .380, I assume?

Actually I don't have much experience with high-calibre revolvers... must ask my Dad if I can borrow his Navy Colt :D


A question that may be a little off-topic:
What do you know about hydrodynamic/hydrostatic shock? A high-velocity round fired from a gun with a high rifling can kill a man even by a grazing shot, so the theory says, because air is pumped into the tissue or something. Some say this is true and that high-velocity rifles are banned according to the Geneva convention, others claim it's nothing but a legend. What do you think?

jab
Sunday, August 25th, 2002, 09:34 PM
In the R o Ireland, .22 semi- automatic rifles Permited. .223 bolt-action, permited
shotguns limited to 3 rounds loaded weapon .
No handguns permited . :D.
Best experience of military weapons is got in the Army.
Little or no experience of Civilians reloading Ammo. or Black powder Guns :o
Military service conduct makes licence processing easier.
England and Wales . Any caliber bolt- action rifle permited, reloading of
own rounds common. Black powder guns common. useful for hard hitting power rounds experimentation. Various Target sights and
scopes easily available. Handguns withdrawn from Civilians.
Of course Licenced handguns available in Northern Ireland.
British system far superior. ISLAND of JERSEY still has semi auto rifle laws.. Gun CluBs Advert fire a full auto WW2 German SMGs.
:eek:
re street, Not many guns available. :lurk , I do NOT know a field
where there's Guns Buried x_rofl x_lol
Does that answer your question ? 88 jab

jab
Sunday, August 25th, 2002, 10:29 PM
The rifling makes the bullet spin and increases accuracy, Fact.
The Longer the Barrel the Longer the Range . Hence Bulpup
Barret super light .50 rifle most superior sniper rifle IN DER World.
"et long rifle go in peace" Last of the Mohicans
because of longest barrel traveling distance.. Anyway High velocity makes a small hole
going in and a big mess going out. The Air pressure of the Bullet
moving so fast makes the molecules of AIR around it push out a force.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction
:D As Scotti says "ye canna change the laes of physics"
Startrek.
Its no Theory. so when grazed a circle of pushed air pressure
blasts you. Got it. Makes a big mess. High Velocity also body
armor pierceing capability. Not banned,by the Geneva Convention.
.45 acp for instance low power, no armour pierceing capability
but makes a big hole in flesh lots of blood pours out ,so your Enemy out dies quicker.
Webley Phosbury , I am referring to it recocking itself through
unusual outside groves in revolver cylinder. not its caliber. I do
not like its slow Trigger pull through first round or stiff Hammer pull back cocking action. No need to fan bullets after first shot .. comprendz? --- Si.
NAVY COLT> as in, Cap, powder,wadding, ball and grease revolver
wow . :willi. Wunderbar 88 jab :cool . Lots of fun They are...x_love

Gunnar
Thursday, August 29th, 2002, 07:51 PM
Hmm, thx for your comment on high-velocity rounds. I have heard lots of different opinions on the subject and I am still not sure what to think. Some experts say hydrostatic shock is just a myth. A lieutenant told me that it's no myth, but that the Geneva convention sets a "speed limit" (something like 930 m/s) for high velocity rounds. I didn't believe him. 930 m/s sounds much too slow, many rifles have a higher V0.



Originally posted by jab

Webley Phosbury , I am referring to it recocking itself through
unusual outside groves in revolver cylinder. not its caliber. I do
not like its slow Trigger pull through first round or stiff Hammer pull back cocking action. No need to fan bullets after first shot .. comprendz? --- Si.


I know what you mean - its cocking mechanism works amost like that of a semi-auto pistol. I think some people even call it an "automatic revolver".



NAVY COLT> as in, Cap, powder,wadding, ball and grease revolver
wow . :willi. Wunderbar 88 jab :cool . Lots of fun They are...x_love

Exactly :viking :cool