PDA

View Full Version : Is the Bosnian Hill Actually an Ancient Pyramid?



Siegfried
Sunday, December 11th, 2005, 04:47 PM
Is Bosnian hill actually an ancient pyramid?
Archaeologists study mound — but hold off from conclusions

VISOKO, Bosnia-Herzegovina - With eyes trained to recognize pyramids hidden in the hills of El Salvador, Mexico and Peru, Semir Osmanagic has been drawn to the mound overlooking this central Bosnian town.

"It has all the elements: four perfectly shaped slopes pointing toward the cardinal points, a flat top and an entrance complex," he said, gazing at the hill and wondering what lies beneath.

No pyramids are known in Europe, and there is no evidence any ancient civilization there ever attempted to build one.

But Osmanagic, a Bosnian archaeologist who has spent the last 15 years studying the pyramids of Latin America, suspects there is one here in his Balkan homeland.

"We have already dug out stone blocks which I believe are covering the pyramid," he said. "We found a paved entrance plateau and discovered underground tunnels. You don't have to be an expert to realize what this is."

Osmanagic, 45, who now lives in Houston, is personally financing excavations at the Visocica hill, a 2,120-foot (646-meter) hump outside Visoko, a town about 20 miles (32 kilometers) northwest of the capital, Sarajevo.

He learned about the hill in April from Senad Hodovic, director of a museum devoted to the history of Visoko, which is rich in Bronze Age and medieval artifacts. Hodovic had attended a promotion of an Osmanagic book about ancient civilizations and thought he would like to see Visoko's pyramid-shaped hill.

When the pair climbed the hill, the sweeping view revealed a second, smaller pyramid-shaped hill. It reminded Osmanagic of pairs of pyramids he has seen in Latin America that together create a gateway into a valley.

15 anomalies found
After obtaining a permit to research the site, which is protected by the state as a national monument, the first probes of the main hill were carried out this summer at six points. Nadja Nukic, a geologist involved in the research, said she found 15 anomalies suggesting that some layers of the hill were human-made.

"We found layers of what we call 'bad concrete,' a definitely unnatural mixture of gravel once used to form blocks with which this hill was covered," Osmanagic said.

"The hill was already there," he added. "Some ancient civilization just shaped it and then coated it with this primitive concrete — and there you have a pyramid."

Small-scale excavations continued until early November, when winter set in, with the work focusing on what Osmanagic theorizes may have been the entrance to a pyramid-shaped temple.

Built by Illyrians?
Osmanagic believes the hill was shaped by the Illyrian people, who inhabited the Balkan peninsula long before Slavic tribes conquered it around A.D. 600. Little is known about the Illyrians, but Osmanagic thinks they were more sophisticated than many experts have suggested.

Nukic, who has walked up and down the hill several times, said she noticed symmetrical platforms in the slopes — indentations that Osmanagic believes are steps built into the pyramid.

A local businessman who bought a lot at the foot of the hill and brought in a bulldozer to dig the foundation for a house, meanwhile, unearthed manmade sandstone plates that the archaeologists think may have been paving stones.

Anthropologists say the Visoko valley already offers ample evidence of organized human settlements dating back 7,000 years. The town was Bosnia's capital during the Middle Ages, and German archaeologists working the valley recently found 24,000 Neolithic artifacts just three feet below the surface.

‘No fast conclusions, please’
Osmanagic is taking a cautious approach about the hill.

"No fast conclusions, please. The evidence has to be firm, at least beyond a reasonable doubt," he said.

"Not that I don't believe in a pyramid here," he added. "This place was always called 'Pyramid' by the local population. But we have to prove that this is not a natural shape."

He thinks, however, that the shape of the hill speaks for itself.

"God can make many things, but such perfectly geometrically formed slopes, pointing exactly toward the north, south, east and west — if he did that, well, that's phenomenal itself."



Source (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10335950/)

[originally posted by Blutwölfin (http://forums.skadi.net/member.php?u=5671) at Blut und Boden (http://www.blutundboden.com/forum/index.php)]

---

The more I read, the more I grow convinced our knowledge of history is fragmentary at best and severely lacking, even when it comes to the history of our own continent. See also this thread; http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=35259

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, December 12th, 2005, 07:11 AM
At first this pyramid was said to be 12,000 years old. Then, it was revised to 3,000 years old. How was this dating done--or has dating been done?

Gaian Meroveus
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 08:36 AM
Comrades,

Here we go again. An archaeologist so desperate to make a name for himself, has deluded himself into seeing dragons where there exist but windmills.
Once again an unusual naturally ocurring geologic formation exhibiting geometric patterns easily attributable to natural geophysical processes, have been credited to some ancient advanced civilisation.

The discoverers have described this alleged archaeological site as having been built by a pre-Illyrian People circa 28,000 B.C.
To say that would be pre-Illyrian is quite an understatement.

Maybe this Bosnian Pyramid was built by refugees from Atlantis or some far off extra terrestrial civilisation?

Archaeologists who see archaeology where it does not exist, have a psychological disorder akin to the thousands of tone deaf would be vocalists who audition for American idol under the misapprehension they can sing.

But i suppose there will always exist the romanticists among us who will see the hand of man in such formations as the Bimini road, and the fantastical Submerged city of the lost civilisation of Mu, off the coast of Okinawa.

Here is a link to a picture and a brief article relating to the Bosnian 'pyramid.'
http://dino.avdibeg.dk/blog/2005/10/pyramid-found-in-heart-of-bosnia.html

Maybe i'm just a natural born sceptic. Maybe it's real.
It certainly would be a fascinating and provocative discovery.
Can't hurt the Bosnian tourism industry.;)

Best wishes,
_Gaian Meroveus.

Cidron
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 09:10 AM
Definately a Pyramid.

If it isn't a pyramid, You won't hear any objections from the Jews.
If it is, Expect a quick dismissal of it being a pyramid from the contemporary archaeological community. ;)

QuietWind
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 01:39 PM
More pics: http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/photos.html

I find it interesting that the earth has completely formed over this structure. Is it possible it was a planned occurance? Like laying a sod-like covering over the sides and top so very long ago? I can't imagine that the earth would have naturally grown upward over it.

And how come no one noticed this before?

Chlodovech
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 04:12 PM
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/porte_2_out.jpg



http://static.flickr.com/1/131902447_f9fcc24f98.jpg?v


http://static.flickr.com/51/131902446_2f0cee9bb1.jpg

The valley of pyramids!

http://www.bosnianpyramid.com

http://www.bosnianpyramids.org

Gaian Meroveus
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 09:44 PM
Comrades,

I have no doubt our resident Skadi geologists could easily explain away these Bosnian 'pyramids' as naturally occurring phenomena.



Best wishes,
_Gaian Meroveus.

grazny
Friday, April 21st, 2006, 02:59 AM
And what about the maze of tunnels? ( http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/tunnel_orig.jpg ). Im sure they're a natural phenomenon too.. I hope these "hills" are confirmed to be man-made pyramids.. I also hope they're older then the Egyptian ones.. (no reason :P )..

oneeyeisbetter
Friday, April 21st, 2006, 04:20 AM
hmm what if its even a pyramid of Odin? hahaha well anythings possible!

Gaian Meroveus
Friday, April 21st, 2006, 07:36 AM
Comrades,

If these turn out to be made made objects, it will be the greatest archaeological discovery of all time, and will have implications reaching far beyond the discipline of Archaeology.

The great pyramid of Khufu dates to only circa 2530 B.C. and the megalithic tombs of western europe 4500 B.C.

So you can imagine the implications if this turned out to be a 27,000 year old man made structure.
I'll reserve judgement until i see the enevitable documentaries on Public television.

Best wishes,
_GM.

Cidron
Friday, April 21st, 2006, 09:21 AM
Comrades,

If these turn out to be made made objects, it will be the greatest archaeological discovery of all time, and will have implications reaching far beyond the discipline of Archaeology.

The great pyramid of Khufu dates to only circa 2530 B.C. and the megalithic tombs of western europe 4500 B.C.

So you can imagine the implications if this turned out to be a 27,000 year old man made structure.
I'll reserve judgement until i see the enevitable documentaries on Public television.

Best wishes,
_GM.

It is no big discovery and no the "archaeologists" will not treat it as the greatest discovery of all time or even recognize its existence if it is real. Pyramids like this are scattered across the Earth and their ages are far older than the dates given in your standard issue history textbooks.

http://www.raphaelk.co.uk/web%20pics/Mexico/first/Teotihuacan%20Pyramid%20of%20the%20sun.J PG
http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/pictures/towers/xian-pyramid.jpg
http://www.earthquest.co.uk/articales/chipyr_2a.jpg

Wake up to the world and quit living in your linear fantasyland version of history, Comrade. ;)

Gaian Meroveus
Saturday, April 22nd, 2006, 02:00 AM
Comrades,







Wake up to the world and quit living in your linear fantasyland version of history, Comrade. ;)


I believe in neither the supernatural nor the occult.
I'll stand by what i have written.;)


Best wishes,
_Gaian Meroveus.

Kurenda
Saturday, April 22nd, 2006, 02:19 AM
Let's go back in time ....
In 1984-85 a mexican archeologist Umberto Salinas Prajs (or something like that) presented a new archeological find.
He claimed that ancient city of Troy was also in Bosnia !
Specifically in the valley of Neretva.
At that time Bosnia was a part of foremr Yugoslavia and the mexican guy spent some time there digging.
He even wrote a book about his claims entitled "Homer's blind audience".
So if he could claim that this about bosnian pyramids can be the same story.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Sunday, April 23rd, 2006, 04:52 AM
They just began excavation on April 14th. There may be more than one pyramid at this local. So far no real data on its date has appeared or on what it is as far as I can tell.

Chlodovech
Saturday, April 29th, 2006, 07:09 PM
It's a... pyramid! http://www.konstantinopel.be/waves/woohoo.gif



http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/image1321.jpg


Heads up,

Bosnianpyramids.org, 18 april:


First Building Blocks of the Pyramid See the Light of Day

The 4th day of digging is finished in Visoko. On the north east side of the pyramid, at a depth of approximately 1m, pyramid's building blocks are found in good condition. It is for certain that these blocks were not made by natural processes.

The blocks were layered one on top of the other and this is how the slopes of the pyramid walls were created. Experts are saying that these blocks are man made, that they originate from Bosnian quarries and that they were transported to this location and pyramids were built.

This is so far the the most valuable visual proof of the pyramid's design, its levels and the material of which it is made of.


Pyramid of the Sun Excavations pictures (http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/xx.html)

Latest pictures (http://www.bosnianpyramids.org/index.php?id=18&lang=en)

grazny
Sunday, April 30th, 2006, 01:34 AM
I wanna know who built it.. and what relics are found that would tell us more about the civilization that built it.. I can't wait 'till those archaeologists answer these questions . :D

Gaian Meroveus
Monday, May 1st, 2006, 09:32 AM
Comrades,


Sorry but i remain sceptical.
I believe this site will be proven as genuinely man made as the Bimini road.
I would gladly be proven wrong however, as this would be the most significant archaeological find in history if the 'Pyramids' can be proven to be 27,000? years old as estimated.

The Balkan region of southern Europe is the theorised refugium of the I haplogroup population of Upper palaeolithic ice age europeans.
Which is most closely associated as the population from which the germanic peoples may have emerged.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6238/europehaplogroups27vy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Is this Pyramid - if proven a man made structure - the possible remnants of the ancient Nordic Aryan master civilisation theorised by the Webelsburg nazi archaeologist crowd?

Could this, contrary to the accepted belief of it's location in the North...be the remnants of the lost civilisation of THULE!?


Best wishes,
_GM.

Siegfried
Monday, May 1st, 2006, 09:40 AM
Gaian Meroveus is not the only one who remains skeptical.

http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/osmanagic/index.html


The Bosnia-Atlantis Connection

Frenzied reporting of supposed pyramids in the Balkans ignores the truth and embraces the fantastic.

The world's oldest and largest pyramid found in Bosnia? It sounds incredible. The story has swept the media, from the Associated Press and the BBC, from papers and websites in the U.S. to those in India and Australia. Too bad that it is not a credible story at all. In fact, it is impossible. Who is the "archaeologist" who has taken the media for a ride? Why did the media not check the story more carefully? ARCHAEOLOGY will address these questions in depth in our next issue, July/August, but for now let's at least put the lie to the claims emanating from Visoko, the town 20 miles northwest of Sarajevo where the "Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun" is located.

Semir (Sam) Osmanagic, a Houston-based Bosnian-American contractor first saw the hills he believes to be pyramids last spring. He is now digging the largest of them and plans to continue the work through November, promoting it as the largest archaeological project underway in Europe. (His call for volunteers even slipped into the Archaeological Institute of America's online listing of excavation opportunities briefly before being yanked.) He claims it is one of five pyramids in the area (along with what he calls the pyramids of the Moon, Earth, and Dragon, plus another that hasn't been named in any account I've seen). These, he says, resemble the 1,800-year-old pyramids at Teotihuacan, just north of Mexico City. Osmanagic maintains that the largest is bigger than the pyramid of Khufu at Giza, and that the Bosnian pyramids date to 12,000 B.C.

Construction of massive pyramids in Bosnia at that period is not believable. Curtis Runnels, a specialist in the prehistory of Greece and the Balkans at Boston University, notes that "Between 27,000 and 12,000 years ago, the Balkans were locked in the last Glacial maximum, a period of very cold and dry climate with glaciers in some of the mountain ranges. The only occupants were Upper Paleolithic hunters and gatherers who left behind open-air camp sites and traces of occupation in caves. These remains consist of simple stone tools, hearths, and remains of animals and plants that were consumed for food. These people did not have the tools or skills to engage in the construction of monumental architecture."

But time and again the media reports say that Osmanagic has spent 15 years studying the pyramids of Latin America. What is not included in the reports is how Osmanagic interprets those structures and the cultures that built them. Had anyone bothered to investigate, they would have found rather bizarre notions in Osmanagic's book The World of the Maya (Gorgias Press, Euphrates imprint, 2005; $29.95). I had a look at the online edition of it (accessible on Osmanagic's "Alternative History" website at www.alternativnahistorija.com).


Ordinary watchmakers repair our watches and put them into accordance with Earthly time. It is my theory that the Maya should be considered watchmakers of the cosmos whose mission it is to adjust the Earthly frequency and bring it into accordance with the vibrations of our Sun. Once the Earth begins to vibrate in harmony with the Sun, information will be able to travel in both directions without limitation. And then we will be able to understand why all ancient peoples worshipped the Sun and dedicated their rituals to this. The Sun is the source of all life on this planet and the source of all information and knowledge. ...And with a frequency in harmony, the Earth will, via the Sun, be connected with the center of our Galaxy. These facts become exceptionally important when we realize that we are rapidly approaching December 2012, a date which the Maya have marked as the time of arrival of the Galactic Energy Cluster which will enlighten us.

The descendants of the Maya, the Lacandon Indians in Chiapas were discovered in the mid-twentieth century. This isolated community showed a surprising similarity to the Basque and Berber peoples (most probable descendants of the natives of Atlantis).... In the sacred Mayan book, the Popul Vuh, there are descriptions of cosmic travelers, the use of the compass, the fact that the Earth is round, and knowledge of the secrets of the universe.... The Mayan hieroglyphics tell us that their ancestors came from the Pleiades... first arriving at Atlantis where they created an advanced civilization.

Many cultures around the world, from India, Sumeria, Egypt, Peru, the Indians of North and Central America, the Inca and the Maya, call themselves the "Children of the Sun" or the "children of light." Their ancestors, the civilizations of Atlantis and Lemuria, erected the first temples on energy potent point of the Planet. Their most important function was to serve as a gateway to other worlds and dimensions.

And there it is. A self-described archaeologist, who believes the Maya and others are descended from Atlanteans who came from the Pleiades, has been accepted as a legitimate researcher by many news outlets. His ideas of early pyramids in Bosnia, which is simply not possible, has been accepted as a major discovery. How could this happen?

If you want to categorize this farce, it seems a standard-issue "amateur/maverick confounds establishment with great discovery" story, which no doubt makes it appealing to uncritical reporters looking for a big story. This kind of tale is a staple of the pseudoarchaeology or fantastic archaeology genre. And the term "pyramidiot" has been applied to those obsessed with pyramids and who offer strange interpretations of them on websites and in books and televsion programs. (See "Seductions of Pseudoarchaeology: Far Out Television").

Such stories infuriate serious scholars like Runnels. "These reports are irresponsible on the part of journalists," he says. "These claims are completely unsupported with any kind of factual evidence, such as artifacts or photographs of the alleged architectures. They have not been confirmed by archaeologists who have the training and competence to evaluate them. The person making the claims appears to have no training in archaeology and has not presented his finds in a way that would allow them to be scrutinized by trained experts. This is simply sensationalism and grandstanding and the journalists who have reported on these claims, without first fact-checking the stories with professional archaeologists, should be ashamed of themselves. People who believe these stories, especially when they are presented without evidence, are fools."

Some in the academic establishment have spoken out. They maintain that the kind of project Osmanagic is running is far worse than just misleading the gullible public. Following a report about Osmanagic in the London Times, Anthony Hardy, president European Association of Archaeologists, wrote the editors, "The situation of professional heritage management in Bosnia-Herzegovina is, since the Bosnian war, in a poor state, with a tiny number of people trying to do what they can to protect their rich heritage from looting and unmonitored or unauthorised development. It adds insult to injury when rich outsiders can come in and spend large sums pursuing their absurd theories (the construction of a colossal pyramid so large that it dwarfs even those of Egypt or Mesoamerica? 12,000 years ago?), in ways that most other countries would never countenance, instead of devoting their cash to the preservation of the endangered genuine sites and monuments in which Bosnia-Herzegovina abounds."

Others fear that Osmanagic's excavations will damage real sites (the hill he calls the "Pyramid of the Sun" is said to have medieval, Roman, and Illyrian remains on it). In one of the few critical accounts of the Bosnian pyramid story, which appeared in the Art Newspaper, the University of Sarejevo's Enver Imamovic, a former director of the National Museum in Sarjevo, is quoted as saying, "This is the equivalent of letting me, an archaeologist, perform surgery in hospitals."

There is public outcry within Bosnia, and an online petition that seeks to shut down Osmanagic's project. But he apparently has backers within the federal government and the Sarejevo city government. Whether he is allowed to continue or not is unresolved for now, and his website makes no mention of any controversy. And even when the mainstream media catch up and realize that the "Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun" is no such thing, it will have entered the annals of fantastic archaeology and will have a multitude of believers and defenders.

I'm still hoping there are genuine pyramids there though. ;)

Chlodovech
Sunday, May 14th, 2006, 12:24 AM
http://slibe.com/images/e2a89271-piramidaizgled_j.jpg


Bosnian pyramids a colossal hoax ?

Source (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewnews.php?id=68645)


It's either one of the greatest archaeological discoveries of our time, or man has made a giant pyramid out of a molehill. In the wake of recent news that evidence of colossal pyramids had been found in the small Bosnian town of Visoko, many in the archaeological community are speaking out and dismissing both the discovery and the man who made it, businessman Semir Osmanagic.Some critics have gone as far as to call the pyramid an absurd publicity stunt.But Osmanagic stands by his claim."They are jealous," Osmanagic told LiveScience in a telephone interview. "These people are going crazy because they've been teaching students that these [Bosnians] were cavemen, and all of a sudden they are finding complex structures here."Osmanagic first noticed the irregularly shaped hills on a trip to the town, located 18 miles north of Sarajevo, in April of 2005. Preliminary digging uncovered mysterious slabs in a stone not native to the immediate area. Further excavation of the hills in April of this year, along with the incredible announcement that one would be much larger than the great pyramid of Cheops at Giza, Egypt, prompted the most recent news release.Satellite images, thermal analysis and radar studies have been performed at the site, all independently confirming the existence of pyramid-shaped architecture, according to Osmanagic.

More importantly, he said, the tests suggest that the layout could not have been man-made. Photos released by the media and made available on Osmanagic's website show a series of stone plates buried just beneath the top layer of soil and vegetation. Despite the tests and pictures, some archaeologists aren't convinced by his claims."Clearly there are voids or something similar in the rock, but that is a long way from saying these are man-made," said Anthony Harding, president of the European Association of Archaeologists. The pyramids could be upwards of 12,000 years old, Osmanagic has deduced, based on geological knowledge of the area. That is a main point of contention for specialists concerned with the archaeology in the Balkan region.

fms panzerfaust
Sunday, May 14th, 2006, 01:32 AM
Hey, maybe some mountains hide pyramids inside them?

Chlodovech
Friday, June 16th, 2006, 01:23 AM
Could it be that "pyramid" is another word for "you believe in anything"? ;)



One might have thought that the Ice Age Bosnian pyramid story would collapse like a bad soufflé, but no. Mainstream media has become somewhat more critical of stories emanating from Visoko, but much of the real work in dissecting the claims has appeared on blogs and message boards, such as The Hall of Ma'at (see "Pseudoscience in Cyberspace"). Unfortunately, the mainstream folks haven't picked up on much of this. Meanwhile, the professional community has become more outspoken, notably with a recent field trip to the site by Anthony Harding, who is president of the European Association of Archaeologists, and in response to a proposed UNESCO mission to the site.

First off, by way of summarizing it all, we are still awaiting any credible evidence that these hills are man-made pyramids and that they date to the end of the Ice Age. That's the big claim, and the burden of proof is on those making it. Semir Osmanagic says, "It's such a huge construction undertaking that the only answer is, yes, this is the work of a supercivilization" (see "Pyramid Scheme" in the July/August issue of ARCHAEOLOGY; abstract here). But where are the artifacts? Where are the settlements in which the people lived? Where are the dates?

"Not any evidence at all has been found," says Harding, quoted by the Associated Press. "I've seen the site, in my opinion it is entirely natural." But the same article, widely carried with slight variations (here is one example), still describes Osmanagic as "the amateur Bosnian archaeologist who has been investigating Latin American pyramids for 15 years." The conclusions reached by him, that the Maya originally came from outer space, identify the kind of researcher Mr. Osmangic is, but that's ignored by the reporter.

Further reading: Archaeology.org (http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/osmanagic/update.htmlSource)

Oswiu
Friday, June 16th, 2006, 01:55 AM
Meanwhile, the professional community has become more outspoken, notably with a recent field trip to the site by Anthony Harding, who is president of the European Association of Archaeologists, and in response to a proposed UNESCO mission to the site.

Hehe! I used to know him. He's a right miserable b*****d... ;) But fair. And a damn fine archaeologist.

Siegfried
Tuesday, June 20th, 2006, 10:08 AM
http://www.physorg.com/news69133877.html

Stone blocks believed by Bosnian researchers to be part of Europe's first pyramid are nothing but a natural formation, European experts said after examining the hillside site near Sarajevo.

"My opinion and the opinion of my colleagues is what we saw was entirely geological in nature," said Anthony Harding, head of the European Association of Archaeologists.

Harding, a professor of archaeology at the University of Exeter in Britain, was speaking here after a brief visit Thursday to the hills near Visoko, a town some 30 kilometres (19 miles) north of Sarajevo, where excavation work has been taking place since April.

"Further work of the same kind would simply produce the same results. I don't think it would change any view about what the nature of the hill is," he told reporters.

The excavations on two pyramid-shaped hills covered by vegetation near Visoko were initiated by Semir Osmanagic, a self-styled Bosnian explorer.

Osmanagic has said he believes that the hills hide the first pyramids to have been discovered in Europe, claiming they were built many thousands of years ago by an unknown civilisation.

While most Bosnians are hopeful that pyramids will be found, a group of the country's archaeologists and historians have dismissed Osmanagic's mission as a "farce".

So far experts have unearthed a number of large stone blocks at several locations on the larger of the two hills and part of a surface paved with regularly shaped small stone blocks on the other.

"You'd be surprised how many natural stone formations can look as if they are man-made," Harding said of the findings.

However earlier on Friday, an Egyptian geologist working with the Bosnian researchers said that the "structure" was a pyramid similar to those in his homeland.

"I believe it is a pyramid," Aly Abd Alla Barakat, of the Egyptian Mineral Resources Authority, told AFP.

Listing the evidence for his claim, Barakat said the sides of the hill were "precisely oriented" towards the four points of the compass and that stone slabs discovered at the site had been "polished by man".

"The white stuff I found between the blocks could be a glue. It is very similar to that we have found in the Giza pyramids," he said.

He called for a massive international research project on the site.

Barakat said he had sent a report on the site to one of the world's leading Egyptologists, Zahi Hawass, who had recommended him to the foundation leading the excavation work.

Utopian
Thursday, June 22nd, 2006, 06:15 PM
Hehe! I used to know him. He's a right miserable b*****d... ;) But fair. And a damn fine archaeologist.

Calling him fair was a joke right? :D It would of course be impossible to be both miserable and fair at the same time.

Sure there are some weird alternative theories floating around outside of the "mainstream," but to have any faith in the average academic who thinks the ancients were more or less savages who worshipped the sun and moon and who practiced mere rites of passage is absurd and an attack on Aryan history. It is not so difficult to believe that there were pyramids in Europe (aren't there some in Greece?) since, and I'm betting that most "academics" are ignorant of this fact or would rather forget it, many heathen temples were either mountains or on mountains. This fact is deeply cemented in our very lore from Scandinavia to Greece and beyond.

Just because it doesn't have inner heating and electricity does not mean it wasn't "man-made." But this goes well beyond this one site. Quite frankly, I am so tired of this campaign to belittle everything within Europe and praise everything foreign. As a folkist I must insist that those who have a consistent track record of anti-Aryanism, as many "academics" do, must be shunned by all like-minded folkists. For if we do not defend the ancient then how can we defend our present folk?

Oswiu
Thursday, June 22nd, 2006, 10:32 PM
Calling him fair was a joke right? :D It would of course be impossible to be both miserable and fair at the same time.
I don't see the contradiction. Harding is a humourless man, or at least reserved with those not admitted into his intimacy. I suppose that's not a crime, but me and him didn't 'hit it off', that's for sure. We're different classes, and from different parts of the country... Either way, he's a conscientious, punctual and tidy person! :) [It's clear enough why we didn't gel!]

Sure there are some weird alternative theories floating around outside of the "mainstream," but to have any faith in the average academic who thinks the ancients were more or less savages who worshipped the sun and moon and who practiced mere rites of passage is absurd and an attack on Aryan history.
I don't know about 'average academics' but the good ones in the reasonably prestigious university I attended don't fit your simplistic image.


It is not so difficult to believe that there were pyramids in Europe (aren't there some in Greece?)
News to me. Can you tell me more? Suffice to say, I'm intensely sceptical. ;)

since, and I'm betting that most "academics" are ignorant of this fact or would rather forget it, many heathen temples were either mountains or on mountains. This fact is deeply cemented in our very lore from Scandinavia to Greece and beyond.
Is it?

Just because it doesn't have inner heating and electricity does not mean it wasn't "man-made." But this goes well beyond this one site. Quite frankly, I am so tired of this campaign to belittle everything within Europe and praise everything foreign.
Come on! This is a funny shaped hill! Nobody's ever noticed it before.
This is not a part of some trend [which you rightfully condemn, however!]

As a folkist I must insist that those who have a consistent track record of anti-Aryanism, as many "academics" do, must be shunned by all like-minded folkists. For if we do not defend the ancient then how can we defend our present folk?
But we should be discerning as to what it is we defend from our ancestors, making absolutely sure that it IS TRUE!
And you are adopting your values system from non-northern sources, from the Fertile Crescent.
You are praising huge gaudy engineering projects that were prompted by vicious megalomaniac despots, and executed by back-breaking slave labour.
I would sooner praise our own more tasteful and intricate constructions.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, June 23rd, 2006, 07:46 AM
Dr. Robert Schock (of water erosion on the Sphinx fame) has posted on the Coast to Coast AM website that he is going to Bosnia and try to determine if this pyramid is man-made or natural.

Utopian
Friday, June 23rd, 2006, 01:37 PM
ICome on! This is a funny shaped hill! Nobody's ever noticed it before.
This is not a part of some trend [which you rightfully condemn, however!]


I have lost patience for those who condemn the trend but then immediately crawl back to the same people and the same institutions responsible for that "trend" (it's really much more than a mere trend since going on for centuries now!) like a sick dog. If they are wrong and indeed they are then we need to condmemn them fully and not partially or "on our own convenience."

There is more and more evidence that these are not just funny shaped hills with convenient tunnels and tiles.


But we should be discerning as to what it is we defend from our ancestors, making absolutely sure that it IS TRUE!

And that means not dismissing something at the drop of a hat.



And you are adopting your values system from non-northern sources, from the Fertile Crescent.
You are praising huge gaudy engineering projects that were prompted by vicious megalomaniac despots, and executed by back-breaking slave labour.
I would sooner praise our own more tasteful and intricate constructions.


And here is the motive for your dismissal which is not objective. How do you know from where my values are derived? How do you know how and by who something was built, especially that which you just claimed was NOT man-made?

Utopian
Friday, June 23rd, 2006, 03:36 PM
(Here are just a few examples)

Pyramids in Greece including the oldest known pyramid

http://www.grecoreport.com/pyramids_in_ancient_greece.htm (http://www.grecoreport.com/pyramids_in_ancient_greece.htm)

http://www.ancientgr.com/Unknown_Hellenic_History/Eng/hellenic.htm (http://www.ancientgr.com/Unknown_Hellenic_History/Eng/hellenic.htm)

Italy

http://www.crystalinks.com/pyritaly.html (http://www.crystalinks.com/pyritaly.html)

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=8hb919eio93m2?tname=p yramid-of-cestius&sbid=lc10a (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=8hb919eio93m2?tname=p yramid-of-cestius&sbid=lc10a)

Ireland

http://www.crystalinks.com/pyrireland.html (http://www.crystalinks.com/pyrireland.html)


Additionally, the fact that ancient European temples and palaces were built on or around mountains and hills and cliffs is well-known. This was followed by construction of castles or fortresses. In every lore that I’ve read the dwelling place of the “gods” was the mountains. Even the Titans and Giants were on mountains. And the Nine Worlds of the Norse are descriptive of mountains. In fact in every tradition throughout the world there are divine beings who came down to earth on top of mountains, who were born on mountains, who reside in or on mountains, etc.

Oswiu
Saturday, June 24th, 2006, 01:18 AM
(Here are just a few examples)

Pyramids in Greece including the oldest known pyramid

http://www.grecoreport.com/pyramids_in_ancient_greece.htm (http://www.grecoreport.com/pyramids_in_ancient_greece.htm)

http://www.ancientgr.com/Unknown_Hellenic_History/Eng/hellenic.htm (http://www.ancientgr.com/Unknown_Hellenic_History/Eng/hellenic.htm)
There's only one picture, and even that's far from conclusive.
http://www.grecoreport.com/images/pyramids2.jpg
This just doesn't convince me.

Italy

http://www.crystalinks.com/pyritaly.html (http://www.crystalinks.com/pyritaly.html)

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=8hb919eio93m2?tname=p yramid-of-cestius&sbid=lc10a (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=8hb919eio93m2?tname=p yramid-of-cestius&sbid=lc10a)
http://www.crystalinks.com/pyritaly.jpg

Oh Dear... The word 'credulous' comes to mind. They're just hills!!! I know a hill in Scotland that looks ten times more like a pyramid - but I'd better not tell you where, as it might end up on one of these sites!

How come the Romans never noticed them, anyway?



Ireland

http://www.crystalinks.com/pyrireland.html (http://www.crystalinks.com/pyrireland.html)
I've been to Newgrange. Inside and around it! Only a fool would connect it with pyramids.

Additionally, the fact that ancient European temples and palaces were built on or around mountains and hills and cliffs is well-known. This was followed by construction of castles or fortresses. In every lore that I’ve read the dwelling place of the “gods” was the mountains. Even the Titans and Giants were on mountains. And the Nine Worlds of the Norse are descriptive of mountains. In fact in every tradition throughout the world there are divine beings who came down to earth on top of mountains, who were born on mountains, who reside in or on mountains, etc.
And in the valleys, at springs, on the plains, at sea, in bogs and on the coast...
Liminality is often the key aspect.
But this has little to do with the claim of hitherto undiscovered pyramids in Bosnia.

And that means not dismissing something at the drop of a hat.
Or accepting them likewise...

Have you seen these pyramids? Why are you so ready to accept what some nutter types on his website?

How do you know from where my values are derived?
I'm sorry, that was a little rash of me. But it does seem that for you it is necessary that your ancestors built huge impressive pyramids, in order for you to be proud of them.
Ancient Europeans built some pretty big things [see Silbury Hill for an English example, and I'd be pleased to hear of such things in Germany or elsewhere]] but it seems clear enough that without civilisation [in the true sense of the word] you don't get the Pyramid of Khufu.

Utopian
Saturday, June 24th, 2006, 03:15 PM
This thread has reached absurd proportions of the "armchair archeologist." I don't know how dismissing everything at the drop of a hat can be somehow pro-European.

Oswiu
Saturday, June 24th, 2006, 08:33 PM
You're not Pro-European if your 'Europe' is a fantasy.

And how are you not an armchair archaeologist, if the best you can do is post links from a website with the word crystal in the URL?!
Have you been to Bosnia? To the Peloponese? To Montevecchio? To Newgrange?

I have at least been to the last one. And if it can be understood as a Pyramid, then so can every termite mound in Mozambique!

Klegutati
Thursday, January 18th, 2007, 12:39 AM
Why doesn't this archaeologist look inside?:| Maybe he'll find it's just a bloody hill! That would make this whole dispute a waste of precious time..:P