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Evolved
Wednesday, September 17th, 2003, 03:52 AM
From this (http://www.hellas.org/mongols/mongols/mongols.htm) page made by Greeks (:disgust). Special interest in the "Mongoloids of Asia and Europe" section. :anieyes

"Proud" Heritage Of Turks
The peoples of the Caucasus


The Caucasian Mongoloids

- the Balkar and Karachai
- the Nogais
- the Karapapak
- the Caucasian Osmanli
- the Turkoman
- the Kumyck

Mongol tribes

- the Kalmuck
- the Kaitak

The Mongoloids of Asia and Europe

Finnic tribes

- the Ugrians
- Western Finns
- Baltic Finns
- the Permians
- the Bulgarian Finns
- the Chuvash
- Slavonized Finns
- the Lapps

The Samoyed

The Turkic tribes

- the Yakut
- the Tatars of Tobolsk
- the Tatars of Tomsk
- the Altain Tatars
- the Karagas

The Mongolic tribes

- the Buryat

The Tungus

Stríbog
Wednesday, September 17th, 2003, 04:26 AM
I'm confused, are you upset because that page derides Turkics?

Evolved
Wednesday, September 17th, 2003, 05:59 AM
"The Mongoloids of Asia and Europe"

Finnic tribes

- the Ugrians

Hungarians & Khants. Khants are predominantly mongoloid and nearly extinct, Hungarians are diverse but look more European and "Western" than do typical Greeks. ;)

- Western Finns

LOL

- Baltic Finns

again, LOL

- the Permians

People from Komi (http://stalker-2002.boom.ru/Komi.JPG) Permyatsky don't look different from Russians to me!

- the Bulgarian Finns

I've never seen any, I imagine they look as diverse as Bulgarians do.

- the Chuvash

Diverse. Bulgar descendants.

- Slavonized Finns

LOL

- the Lapps

2-5% Mongoloid wasn't it? Not an important amount, IMO. Greeks probably have more than that.

Finn-Ugors (http://www.ethnomuseum.ru/Collections/Catalogues/Finn-Ugrs/Nations/Nation_annotations.htm)

Not fair to group all these people with the "evil" Turks they dispise. They should focus their hatred on the acts of injustice of the Turks committed against them rather then to all Turks themselves, and stop trying to spread their hate to other people who had nothing to do with it. The "hellas.org" people decry the racist policies of Turkey but are guilty of racism themselves, and on a wider scale against innocent people. :cuss

Loki
Wednesday, September 17th, 2003, 07:32 AM
Yeah I fully agree ladygoeth, to call Finnic tribes Mongolic is stretching it a bit far...

These people should take lessons in history and physical anthropology.

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, September 17th, 2003, 08:10 AM
Yeah I fully agree ladygoeth, to call Finnic tribes Mongolic is stretching it a bit far...

These people should take lessons in history and physical anthropology.

In: Rassenverwandschaft der Donauvoelker/Franz Kaszonyi.-Wien:Amalthea,1951.


Finnen:

A. Volkselemente:
1. Anthropologisch: Nordisch, Ostbaltisch, Lapponoid.
2. Ethnologisch: Finnen, Germanen, Lappen.
3. Kulturell: Christlich-Germanisch.

B. Fuehrer(Ideal):
1. Anthropologisch: Nordisch.
2. Ethnologisch: Germanen.
3. Staatenbildung: Germanisch.

C. Schoenheitsideal:Nordisch.

According to the author Magyars, Slowaks, Croats, Serbs, Rumanians, Bulgars,Osmanians, and in part Poles and Russians(sharing the same revered position with the Nordic type) are united in acknowledging the Mongol-Caucasian or Turanid type as the master and beauty ideal.
I wonder where he pitched that yarn about...but I'll keep you posted as soon as I finished the remaining twohundred pages...:)

torrent
Wednesday, September 17th, 2003, 10:03 AM
"The Mongoloids of Asia and Europe"

Finnic tribes

- the Ugrians

Hungarians & Khants. Khants are predominantly mongoloid and nearly extinct, Hungarians are diverse but look more European and "Western" than do typical Greeks. ;)

- Western Finns

LOL

- Baltic Finns

again, LOL

- the Permians

People from Komi (http://stalker-2002.boom.ru/Komi.JPG) Permyatsky don't look different from Russians to me!

- the Bulgarian Finns

I've never seen any, I imagine they look as diverse as Bulgarians do.

- the Chuvash

Diverse. Bulgar descendants.

- Slavonized Finns

LOL

- the Lapps

2-5% Mongoloid wasn't it? Not an important amount, IMO. Greeks probably have more than that.

Finn-Ugors (http://www.ethnomuseum.ru/Collections/Catalogues/Finn-Ugrs/Nations/Nation_annotations.htm)

Not fair to group all these people with the "evil" Turks they dispise. They should focus their hatred on the acts of injustice of the Turks committed against them rather then to all Turks themselves, and stop trying to spread their hate to other people who had nothing to do with it. The "hellas.org" people decry the racist policies of Turkey but are guilty of racism themselves, and on a wider scale against innocent people. :cuss
the arrival of turks in balkans is very same time with slavs. but i am afraid whatever the reason is turks and their neighbors look very much alike. usually assuming only one sided mixture would be a little prejudiced. usually many turks have left the ural altaic unity concept. it is rather interesting that these greeks are more panturanist than many turks. i have often thought that even though, theoreticly, turks and greeks hate each other very much, in fact in practice they do not hate each other so much, they are accustomed to living together and these hate expressions are just traditional and done just to be done.
turks and greeks and armenians slavs, chinese. there are many stories told in the each side. and i will not be boring the forum members with the stories i know.
especially life on the steppes are different unlike the farming societies there is a democracy supplied by power and unexpected raids, everybody is carefull against each other, usually massacres would occur only in times of hard conflicts, mostly people would enslave each other for cheap labor and extortion.
best regards

Unregistered
Wednesday, September 17th, 2003, 10:18 AM
In: Rassenverwandschaft der Donauvoelker/Franz Kaszonyi.-Wien:Amalthea,1951.


Finnen:

A. Volkselemente:
1. Anthropologisch: Nordisch, Ostbaltisch, Lapponoid.
2. Ethnologisch: Finnen, Germanen, Lappen.
3. Kulturell: Christlich-Germanisch.

B. Fuehrer(Ideal):
1. Anthropologisch: Nordisch.
2. Ethnologisch: Germanen.
3. Staatenbildung: Germanisch.

C. Schoenheitsideal:Nordisch.

According to the author Magyars, Slowaks, Croats, Serbs, Rumanians, Bulgars,Osmanians, and in part Poles and Russians(sharing the same revered position with the Nordic type) are united in acknowledging the Mongol-Caucasian or Turanid type as the master and beauty ideal.
I wonder where he pitched that yarn about...but I'll keep you posted as soon as I finished the remaining twohundred pages...:)



He may be on to something there.

I've been lusting for a Turanid beauty ever since puberty. But could never find one in my home town in Poland. Oh well, hope springs eternal.

Tore
Wednesday, September 17th, 2003, 11:33 PM
2-5% Mongoloid wasn't it? Not an important amount, IMO. Greeks probably have more than that.

Well, yes, although if one considers Hg 16/N3/Tat-C to be Mongoloid, then that figure rises to 20-25%.

The branch of Hg 16 found among the Lapps is the same found in the Finns and Balts (Eu14), by which it is found at a higher frequency.

Strange is that the Finns are generally considered to more European by phenotype than the Lapps, and having said this, wholly Europid in general.

I doubt that Hg 16 is Mongoloid in its entirety, the wet dreams of "Racial Myths" nothwithstanding, that is. ;)

Polak
Thursday, September 18th, 2003, 09:28 AM
According to the author Magyars, Slowaks, Croats, Serbs, Rumanians, Bulgars,Osmanians, and in part Poles and Russians(sharing the same revered position with the Nordic type) are united in acknowledging the Mongol-Caucasian or Turanid type as the master and beauty ideal.
I wonder where he pitched that yarn about...but I'll keep you posted as soon as I finished the remaining twohundred pages...:)


I don't really get this. What's this author saying?

Evolved
Thursday, September 18th, 2003, 10:43 AM
According to the author Magyars, Slowaks, Croats, Serbs, Rumanians, Bulgars,Osmanians, and in part Poles and Russians(sharing the same revered position with the Nordic type) are united in acknowledging the Mongol-Caucasian or Turanid type as the master and beauty ideal.

Wow, what a total load of crap. So, this is the East European standard of male handsomeness then?:

http://www.mkogy.hu/kepv98/kepek/t004.jpg

Every girl's dream! :suspect

Generally Hungarian guys and most Slavs prefer Nordic women like the rest of Central Europe. I know Russians & Poles do. I'm not sure what people in the Balkans like best. What girls like? Who knows. Girls are weird. But do Eastern European girls seek out Turanid men as the sexiest and "masters?" I should think not. :P

Polak
Thursday, September 18th, 2003, 11:01 AM
Wow, what a total load of crap. So, this is the East European standard of male handsomeness then?:

http://www.mkogy.hu/kepv98/kepek/t004.jpg

Every girl's dream! :suspect

Generally Hungarian guys and most Slavs prefer Nordic women like the rest of Central Europe. I know Russians & Poles do. I'm not sure what people in the Balkans like best. What girls like? Who knows. Girls are weird. But do Eastern European girls seek out Turanid men as the sexiest and "masters?" I should think not. :P



I find it totally amazing sometimes when I read what the old western European scholars wrote about Slavs and Eastern Europe.

It's as if they've never been there. Like it's Mars or something and they're just taking wild guesses.

The ideal of beauty in Poland has always been the blond Slavic look. That's what everyone in Poland considers the original Slavs to look like.

Frans_Jozef
Thursday, September 18th, 2003, 03:39 PM
Wow, what a total load of crap. So, this is the East European standard of male handsomeness then?:

http://www.mkogy.hu/kepv98/kepek/t004.jpg

Every girl's dream! :suspect

Generally Hungarian guys and most Slavs prefer Nordic women like the rest of Central Europe. I know Russians & Poles do. I'm not sure what people in the Balkans like best. What girls like? Who knows. Girls are weird. But do Eastern European girls seek out Turanid men as the sexiest and "masters?" I should think not. :P

Lo and behold, I thought you were the great champion of the Turanid and Ladogan cause, but as the youth of these days, as cloths ideals and perceptions wear thin and are shedded away as soon as they're pleased to do so.
Dont blemish me for this "crap", it was written by a Magyar fanatic....ahem.

Vojvoda
Thursday, September 18th, 2003, 05:11 PM
i have often thought that even though, theoreticly, turks and greeks hate each other very much, in fact in practice they do not hate each other so much, they are accustomed to living together and these hate expressions are just traditional and done just to be done.

Very good point my friend.

Hehe, ladygoeth, "Girls are weird". Usually, yes :)

Unregistered
Thursday, September 18th, 2003, 06:54 PM
Lo and behold, I thought you were the great champion of the Turanid and Ladogan cause, but as the youth of these days, as cloths ideals and perceptions wear thin and are shedded away as soon as they're pleased to do so.
Dont blemish me for this "crap", it was written by a Magyar fanatic....ahem.
ok,ok
well, that magyar cannot just distingush east baltic from turanid from the skulls. this man is alpin, if not he is alpin turanid mixture. and there are clearly more handsome turanids.

Very good point my friend.
thank you, friend.
best regards

Evolved
Thursday, September 18th, 2003, 10:47 PM
Lo and behold, I thought you were the great champion of the Turanid and Ladogan cause

I never said they were a physical ideal though. It is possible for me to be interested in races and cultures I am not necessarily attracted to.


Dont blemish me for this "crap", it was written by a Magyar fanatic....ahem.

I realize you and Franz Kaszonyi are two different people. :nicehat

Evolved
Friday, September 19th, 2003, 02:38 AM
The definitions about the Turkish Race that were made in history are quite confusing. In Chinese yearbooks as well as in Latin and Greek sources the Turks have rather been described as Mongolian types. The reason why the Turks were shown as "mongoloids" in ancient times can be explained by the fact that in those times the Mongolian element was a majority among the Turkish States. Through the whole history of the Turks, the nearest contact was to their close neighbour the Mongolians. The crowded Mongolian populations had joined under the Turkish regency (like the Tabgac's at the Asian Hun's) and ten thousands of Mongolians had shared long immigrations together with the Turks (like the East Hun's). Furthermore if we consider the possibility of mixture of the races caused by this close contact, the observation of foreigners should be not so surprising to us.

Essentially the scientific investigations made in the last half of this century brought forward that the Turks belong to the white race and it came out that the Turks - belonging to the "Turanid" type of the "Europid" group which is one of the three big race groups on earth - had many different anthropological criteria that separated them in first line from the "Mongoloid" Mongolians (dominating quality white colour, straight nose, round face, lightly curly hair, middle dense beard and moustache).

Furthermore, it is known that the Turkish race as in the Torah narrations (not from Ham and Sam, but from the race of Yafes) is shown from the white race. As a sample of the Turan type the Middle Asian, Maveraunnehir and other Near-East Turks were shown as white-skinned, dark shiny eyed, round faced ("moon faced, almond eyed"), well-proportioned, strong build men and women (the bust of Kül Tegin Prince of the Gök-Türk) who were show as a sample of beauty in the sources of the Middle Ages and even in Iranian literature the word "Turk" came to the meaning "beautiful human".

The Turkish Name, The Turkish Race, The Motherland Of The Turks And Their Spread Out (http://www.ozturkler.com/data_english/0001/0001_01_02.htm)

Evolved
Saturday, September 20th, 2003, 07:08 AM
and there are clearly more handsome turanids.

http://www.fredericfekkai.com/img/ff_about.jpg

He's Eurasian, so maybe should be included with Turanids. :)

http://www.cnn.com/STYLE/9903/04/oscar.fashion/link.fekkai.jpg
http://greatdayamerica.com/style/beauty/spring2000makeup10.jpg
http://www.papermag.com/paperdaily/culturalsushi/images/2001/shafrazi/frederic_fekkai.jpg
http://www.harpersbazaar.com/quiz/images/coats/1a.jpg

I let someone else post Turanid women if they want.

Davut Güloğlu seems like a Mediterranean-Turanid mix. He's not bad looking at all. ;)

cosmocreator
Saturday, September 20th, 2003, 09:57 PM
LG, you have an unusual fascination with Turks. The few that I've known, I didn't like. I couldn't stand them.

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Saturday, September 20th, 2003, 10:39 PM
I have a Turkish friend (congratulations!) He's quite the weasily fellow, but I love 'em!

Evolved
Sunday, September 21st, 2003, 12:22 AM
My "fascination with Turks" is by no means unusual. White nationalist people's obsession with calling themselves Nordic even when they clearly aren't, now that is unusual. ;)

I met a few Turks, they were always friendly with me. :shrug

cosmocreator
Sunday, September 21st, 2003, 08:52 AM
My "fascination with Turks" is by no means unusual. White nationalist people's obsession with calling themselves Nordic even when they clearly aren't, now that is unusual. ;)

Wannabe behaviour is something but I don't know if unusual is the word for it.

I met a few Turks, they were always friendly with me. :shrug

It's not their friendliness that is in question. I just don't view eastern Meds as my kin and I don't like living among them. Yeah, I know what you're thinking 'But the ones I posted aren't Meds.' Yeah whatever. Europe doesn't have anything to satisfy your sexual drive you have to look to Asia that without doubt have a mixed ancestry even if they don't look it?

cosmocreator
Sunday, September 21st, 2003, 09:02 AM
I have a Turkish friend (congratulations!) He's quite the weasily fellow, but I love 'em!


I'll deal with you in private in my own way. :ffreddie:

It's one thing to cooperate with aliens in these times, quite another to befriend them. :fcroc:

torrent
Sunday, September 21st, 2003, 01:34 PM
http://www.voleybol2003.org/sourcedesign/VOLEYBOL03.asp?web_id=voleybol&sayfa_id=voleybol.turkiye_team

torrent
Sunday, September 21st, 2003, 09:43 PM
http://www.voleybol2003.org/sourcedesign/VOLEYBOL03.asp?web_id=voleybol&sayfa_id=voleybol.turkiye_team
http://www.fotoajans.com/turk_unlu/v/vatan_sasmaz.jpg
http://www.cocuklarduymasin.com/oyuncular/vatansasmaz/vatansasmaz.html
http://www.fotoajans.com/turk_unlu/a/arzum_onan_02.jpg
http://www.yasemin-kozanoglu.bz.tc/resim/05.htm
http://www.yasemin-kozanoglu.bz.tc/resim/01.htm
http://ozlemtekin1.sitemynet.com/resimler10.htm
http://www.fotoajans.com/turk_unlu/s/sibel_alas_3.jpg

Evolved
Monday, September 22nd, 2003, 12:34 AM
It's not their friendliness that is in question. I just don't view eastern Meds as my kin and I don't like living among them.

That's ok for you I can respect that, I haven't got a problem with them. Do I feel more comfortable around Europeans than East Meds? Of course! I don't have any East Meds in my family. I have photographic evidence that my ancestors were perfectly European. :)


Yeah, I know what you're thinking 'But the ones I posted aren't Meds.' Yeah whatever. Europe doesn't have anything to satisfy your sexual drive you have to look to Asia that without doubt have a mixed ancestry even if they don't look it?

If someone is racially acceptable, then they are racially acceptable. I don't want to look at everyone's DNA. You make it sound like I'm having all kinds of sexual relationships with Turks, I'm chasing them down the street and sexually assaulting them! LOL. You know, I'm not like that. I don't want to sleep with Near Easterners or Middle Easterners, or Asians or anyone else really. I could make a list of celebrity guys I think are handsome and they would all be European or European-American. If I find a cute Turk, Afghan, Iranian, Paki then that's all it is- a couple of good looking foreigners. Anyone who says they've never seen a cute foreigner or two is a liar. :)

Maybe I should make a thread about my favorite guys just to make you happy and prove I'm not a perverted weirdo with a Asian fetish. I don't want you to be disgusted or suspicious of me. :suspect :(

Razmig
Friday, February 6th, 2004, 09:57 AM
the original ugrics and finns are not the Finns of today...as the Anatolians were not the same as they are today...why is it every phoenotype evalution eventually ends in "he looks ok to me" ?