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Cole Nidray
Thursday, December 8th, 2005, 09:01 PM
(http://www.cwo.com/%7Elucumi/british.html)BLACK PEOPLE IN THE BRITISH ISLES AND EARLY NORTHERN EUROPE (http://www.cwo.com/%7Elucumi/british.html)

Any comprehensive account of the African presence in early Europe should include England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Scandinavia. The history and legends of Scotland confirm the existence of "purely Black people." We see one of them in the person of Kenneth the Niger. During the tenth century Kenneth the Niger ruled over three provinces in the Scottish Highlands.


The historical and literary traditions of Wales reflect similar beliefs. According to Gwyn Jones (perhaps the world's leading authority on the subject), to the Welsh chroniclers, "The Danes coming in by way of England and the Norwegians by way of Ireland were pretty well all black: Black Gentiles, Black Norsemen, Black Host."


There is also strong reason to suggest an African presence in ancient Ireland. We have, for example, the legends of the mysterious "African sea-rovers, the Fomorians, who had a stronghold on Torrey Island, off the Northwest Coast." The Fomorians, shrouded deep in mist, came to be regarded as the sinister forces in Irish mythology.


A prominent Viking of the eleventh century was Thorhall, who was aboard the ship that carried the early Vikings to the shores of North America. Thorhall was "the huntsman in summer, and in winter the steward of Eric the Red. He was, it is said, a large man, and strong, black, and like a giant, silent, and foul-mouthed in his speech, and always egged on Eric to the worst; he was a bad Christian."


Another Viking, more notable than Thorhall, was Earl Thorfinn, "the most distinguished of all the earls in the Islands." Thorfinn ruled over nine earldoms in Scotland and Ireland, and died at the age of seventy-five. His widow married the king of Scotland. Thorfinn was described as "one of the largest men in point of stature, and ugly, sharp featured, and somewhat tawny, and the most martial looking man... It has been related that he was the foremost of all his men."




SOURCES:

Ancient And Modern Britons, by David Mac Ritchie
Nature Knows No Color-Line, by J.A. Rogers
:rotfl

Janus
Thursday, December 8th, 2005, 09:10 PM
According to the link you've taken the news from I think it is not thar relieable (it's from the global african community).Also it seems like a bit too hilarious and I've never heard of Negroid Skulls found in Scandinavia.

The Black Prince
Friday, December 9th, 2005, 12:40 AM
A few of the Vikings we're Negroid..HAHAHAAAA:P :D :P

Sorry, I usually am not as loud ;)

But this is what we call in Dutch 'zwetsen' don't know the right English term for it?


"The Danes coming in by way of England and the Norwegians by way of Ireland were pretty well all black: Black Gentiles, Black Norsemen, Black Host."

A prominent Viking of the eleventh century was Thorhall, who was aboard the ship that carried the early Vikings to the shores of North America. Thorhall was "the huntsman in summer, and in winter the steward of Eric the Red. He was, it is said, a large man, and strong, black, and like a giant, silent, and foul-mouthed in his speech, and always egged on Eric to the worst; he was a bad Christian."


Another Viking, more notable than Thorhall, was Earl Thorfinn, "the most distinguished of all the earls in the Islands." Thorfinn ruled over nine earldoms in Scotland and Ireland, and died at the age of seventy-five. His widow married the king of Scotland. Thorfinn was described as "one of the largest men in point of stature, and ugly, sharp featured, and somewhat tawny, and the most martial looking man... It has been related that he was the foremost of all his men."

The Norse we're called 'Finn...(something)' meaning fair or light.
And the Danes we're called 'Dunn.....(something)', meaning something as dark.
(read some books about Keltic Ireland. And as I remember these terms we're named in the appendices, if I'm wrong please correct me.)

Also not every Viking was a high-blond haired, high-blue eyed individual.
And a lot of them (Especially those who stayed in Northern Britain) of course blended with the local population.


North & Middle European perceptance on terms as 'dark' and 'black'

Terms as Dark or Black mean nothing, in NW-Europe (probably NE-Europe to), people with even a slight pigmented skin (Olive), black hair and darkbrown eyes are called blacks.

So as negroids are black, most turks/ Arabs are called black too by common people!

People with fair skins and light eyes, but with black or brown hair (Dark hair) are called dark men or women just to mean the contrast with blond men or women.

I think it's merely the change of perceptance that people in southern worldparts have of terms as dark people and black people.
(Afrocentrists also seem to have the obsession to make their races the master race or so.. ) that causes this strange worldviews.


There is also strong reason to suggest an African presence in ancient Ireland. We have, for example, the legends of the mysterious "African sea-rovers, the Fomorians, who had a stronghold on Torrey Island, off the Northwest Coast." The Fomorians, shrouded deep in mist, came to be regarded as the sinister forces in Irish mythology.
Fomorians are as I thougt to be myths from millenia ago, although it's quite possible there were some dark (Mabe even Negroid) seafarers, But there is simply no evidence. Could also be the perceptance of some Rufous men viewing Blackhaired men of Mediterranid / Dinarid heritage.

Bismark
Friday, December 9th, 2005, 01:50 AM
But this is what we call in Dutch 'zwetsen' don't know the right English term for it?
Somerled, don't know that word, but in English we have a term that describes this article, bull-shit. I'm guessing it has the same meaning as 'zwetsen', because this article is so clearly bull-shit.


I would say that a Negroid in Northern Europe at the time would have be very, very rare. Look at the archaeological evidence, everything we find from the region denotes Indo European, and UP cultures; furthermore all of the skeletal remains we find are Indo, or UP. There may have been a few negroids in the north, but it is likely the Euros viewed them as there descendant colonials did initially, as exotic sub-human animals. Sure some royalty may have owned a Negroid or two, however they were not a part of the breading population.

It's likely in the case of the 'Blacks' described to us in this article that they were not negroids, or descendent of them. Black is used as a way of describing their character as dark, or sinister, it is not a physical description.

CountBloodSpawn
Friday, December 9th, 2005, 01:51 AM
:| what in the name of Thor is this bull?!

not only is their no scientific or historical evidence of this claim
their is plenty of genetic,evolutionary and historical evidence going against it:D

I really don't care if that Global African Community wants to claim ancient Egypt as the best ancient black civilization in all of history or for that matter Isreal or Babylon, but tell them to please stay away from Norse Heathen culture and history, because thats just so fudging ridiculous

Theudanaz
Friday, December 9th, 2005, 02:09 AM
Gmc. *swart-az "black, dark" and its derivates was likely a term used to refer (eventually) to darker people of a population, i.e. darker of hair color, all other things being essentially equal. Likewise a red man had red hair, not necessarily red skin. Homogeneity of skin color probably allowed such vagueness with respect to color terms. early Scandinavians would have referred to negroids as being "blue" (blå), or rather, as having blå skin; this color term comes from Gmc. *blaw-az and probably arose out of the wool-dying trade, with early meanings dark gray, intensely hued, colored, etc., when the modern sense of "blue" probably started to develop in the middle ages.

Ryan
Friday, December 9th, 2005, 03:32 AM
Pretty ridiculous article.

Hardwig
Friday, December 9th, 2005, 03:51 AM
These stupid articles don't surprise me anymore.There are people who claim that the ancient Egypt had a "Nordic component".

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, December 9th, 2005, 05:04 AM
I guess they finally gave up on Egyptians being black. My understanding is that "Black Danes" was a name applied to Vikings from Denmark who used black sails. "White Danes" were Norwegians who used white sails. I think the two countries were one country back then. Perhaps someone could tell me if I am correct in this.

As far as Black Scotts or Welchmen, I won't even consider this until they find cocaine in one of their bodies.

anaktas
Friday, December 23rd, 2005, 10:48 AM
LOOOOOL
What an article....

The Black Prince
Friday, December 23rd, 2005, 08:55 PM
The Norse we're called 'Finn...(something)' meaning fair or light.
And the Danes we're called 'Dunn.....(something)', meaning something as dark.
(readed some books about Keltic Ireland. And as I remember these terms we're named in the appendices, if I'm wrong please correct me.)


Sought some things out...:)

The name mean's "Doyle's town", from the personal name Doyle which itself derives from dubh-ghaill meaning "dark stranger", the name given by the Gaels to the Danes to distinguish them from the Norwegians or "fair strangers" (finn-ghaill) who first settled in Ireland in 841-842). (See: Irish Names of Places, Vol. I., p.350, and Archdall's Monasticon Hibernicum, edited by Cardinal Moran; Vol.11., p.21, note).

http://www.answers.com/topic/baldoyle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldoyle



My understanding is that "Black Danes" was a name applied to Vikings from Denmark who used black sails. "White Danes" were Norwegians who used white sails.

This seems like logical explanation
(Although I believe there are sources that the danes were darker as the norwegians, but I'l have to look this up)

------


I think the two countries were one country back then. Perhaps someone could tell me if I am correct in this.

It depends, I think more of a large space filled with almost constant warring little kingdoms, not much unifying in those ages :D :

Here are both countries (during the 9th to the 12th century) in a nutshell (source: Wikipedia):

Norway:

By the time of the first historical records of Scandinavia, about the 700s AD, some 29 petty kingdoms existed in Norway.

A number of small communities were gradually organised into larger regions in the 9th century, and in 872 King Harald Fairhair unified the realm and became its first supreme ruler. King Harald had many children, and his heirs ruled Norway with short interruptions until 1319. Religious influence from Europe (especially England and Ireland) led to the adoption of Christianity.
Central in this was King Olav Haraldsson ("The Holy") who died in the Battle of Stiklestad on July 29, 1030. He became Norway's patron Saint Olav, and his tomb at Nidaros cathedral Trondheim became the most important pilgrimage destination in Northern Europe.

The archdiocese of Nidaros was established in 1153. Between 1130 and 1217 Norway underwent a period of Civil Wars. Around 1200, the Norwegian king ruled over land from Man in the Irish Sea to the Kola Peninsula in the east. Greenland and Iceland were incorporated as dependencies in 1262.

Denmark:

Various petty kingdoms existed throughout the area now known as Denmark for many years. It is thought that around 980, Harold Bluetooth established a unified kingdom of Denmark. Around the same time, he was visited by a German missionary who, according to legend, survived an ordeal by fire, which convinced Harold to convert to Christianity. The new religion, which replaced the old Norse mythology, had many advantages for the king. Christianity brought with it some support from the Holy Roman Empire. It also allowed the king to dismiss many of his opponents who were adherents to the old mythology. The church would bring a stable administration to his lands that he could hopefully use to exercise some control over them.

After the death of Canute the Great in 1035, England broke away from Danish control and Denmark fell into disarray for some time. Vikings from Norway raided Denmark sporadically. Canute’s nephew Sweyn Estridson (1020-1074) re-established strong royal authority and built a good relationship with the Archbishop of Bremen, who was at that time the Archbishop of all of Scandinavia.

Gorm the Old
Saturday, December 24th, 2005, 12:53 AM
This article was posted on the wrong date. It should have been posted on April 1.

Cole Nidray
Wednesday, December 28th, 2005, 06:37 AM
http://www.steelbuddha.net/images/blog/flav_viking.jpg

Heksulv
Friday, December 30th, 2005, 03:18 AM
Probably just meant people with darker hair [like a mediterranian]