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Oskorei
Sunday, December 4th, 2005, 11:29 AM
Two good articles on this ancient Aryan religion:


Mithras is born from a rock and this rock is usually entangled by a snake. In his hands Mithras carries a dagger and either a globe or an arrow-container. Later in his life Mithras goes hunting, makes an eternal spring from a rock,http://www.monas.nl/think/cimrm89.jpg chases the bull and eventually kills him, bringing fertility to the land.

Something the scholars do not agree upon is the strange, monstrous god (?) that is usually displayed with a lions head. Therefor he is often called “leonthocephalic god”, but Cumont liked to use “Zervan” after the Persian god of time and Vermaseren “Aion” after the Greek god of time. The figure is not always depicted with a lions-head.

Sometimes he is a young man with a lions head, but also a Gorgons head on his chest (and knees). Almost always the figure stands on a globe, is entangled by a snake and in his hands he holds objects that are not always the same. This god as a monstrous Gorgon makes the link between Mithras and Perseus even more likely (Perseus looks away when he kills Medusa, to prevent him turning to stone!).

For several reasons that I will not discuss here, I am inclined to see the leonthocephalic as yet another aspect of Mithras (like with the torchbearers, see later). Interestingly enough, also the leonthocephalic god seems to be refered to in the PGM (I 144-148).

Mithraism was a flexible conviction. Often you see not only Mithras in Mithraeums, but also texts or images that refer to Cybele, Silvanus or Greek gods. In Germany and Great Brittain are more than coincidental concurs of findings of Geman or Celtic findings and Mithraic. However here not in the same room, traditional, Roman and Mithraic cults often existed next to eachother in the same cities.

Mithras is usually identified with the sun, but also often he is depicted together with Helios. The same can be said about other gods. The torchbearers are often said to be representations of the equinoxes and then Mithras is in the solstitiae. Personally I like the idea that the torchbearer Cautes (with his torch upwards) represents the upcoming sun, while Cautopates (with torch downwards) the setting sun. Mithras –of course- is then the sun at noon. The torchbearers look a lot like Mithras (including Phrygian cap), so the images is the course of the sun during the day. And the year!

When the torchbearers are the equinoxes, Mithras represents the solstitiae. His ‘birthday’ is celebrated at the winter-solstice. At that time the days is at its shortest, the night at it lengthiest, so the celebration is the return of the light(god): Mithras. Since Mithraism was a serious opponent of the young church of Christianity, Christianity executed its usual tactique, the feast of the “Sol Invictus” (invincible sun) became Christmas, the birth of Christ.

In contradiction with holy pagan places and temples, Mithraeums were not Christianised or overbuild, but smashed to pieces. This caused most remains to be heavily damaged. The Christians did their job so ‘good’, that nowadays we don’t know too much about Mithraism.

http://www.monas.nl/think/mithraeums.htm
http://www.monas.nl/think/mithraism.htm

BeornWulfWer
Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 08:43 PM
I was watching one programme the other night and it got me thinking. It basically said that John the Baptist baptised Jesus, so, it could be conceivable that Jesus was a disciple to John the Baptist before separating and founding his own sect.

What do others think?

Talan
Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 09:44 PM
I'm currently essaying on orthopraxical Mithraism, and should (re)start a thread here within the next fortnight. Brace yourselves. :o

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6773/19032008gj9.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=19032008gj9.jpg)
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/2530/19032008001kk0.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=19032008001kk0.jpg)

Northerner
Thursday, March 20th, 2008, 04:58 AM
Some scholars regard Mithraism as a onetime strong rival to Christianity in the Roman empire. If memory serves, Mithraic relics been found near Hadrian's Wall in the UK.

Out of curiosity, have you ever seen The Cosmic Mysteries of Mithras (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.well .com%2Fuser%2Fdavidu%2Fmithras.html) website? If so, I'd be interested to know your opinion. I encountered it several years ago.

Berlichingen
Tuesday, March 25th, 2008, 05:00 AM
I would dearly like to see the Persians regain their homeland("Iran") and establish Zoroastrianism as the dominant religion in the Middle East.

Catterick
Sunday, December 11th, 2016, 07:05 AM
Mithraism survives in Sufi thought if we accept that the bull is the nafs. (Milad Milani, Sufism in the Secret History of Persia, Ch 4) Furthermore the Sufi ideas entered Europe via the Crusades. Continuity between Iran before and after Islam is near-total. Islamification was only ever superficial even today. The Iranian revolution itself is only superficially fundamentalist, it was backed by the supporters of Mossadegh and had its philosophical roots in modern philosophical thought. It has been compared to the rise of militarist Japan from out of the Kyoto School.

By the way HED noted numerous correspondences between Odhinn and Mithras. Likely these owe to Mithras's status as a boundary god and to the close association between gods of the solar and mercurial type ie. Hermes and Apollo (did Apollo take over one of Hermes's functions?). Is one willing to equate the story of Audhumla with the Persian and Mitannian tauroctonies, and the scene on the Gundestrup cauldron? A similar relationship exists between Ymir and Audumhla as between Gayomart the Primal Man and the great bull.

Bernhard
Monday, January 30th, 2017, 11:19 AM
Continuity between Iran before and after Islam is near-total. Islamification was only ever superficial even today. The Iranian revolution itself is only superficially fundamentalist, it was backed by the supporters of Mossadegh and had its philosophical roots in modern philosophical thought. It has been compared to the rise of militarist Japan from out of the Kyoto School.


Do you have any references regarding this comparison? Sounds interesting!

Catterick
Monday, January 30th, 2017, 12:42 PM
Do you have any references regarding this comparison? Sounds interesting!

Unfortunately the book extract/blog post is offline. It is however easy to note ways in which Iran is "differently modernist" which is what gets Western backs up. The myth of progress implies linearity after all. Japan was feared the same way before and during the Pacific War. And so were the Asian Tigers later on.

Iranian policies on abortion and transsexualism in particular deviate from concensus interpretation of Islam: the Islamic Republic is not fundamentalist by nature but flexible and innovative. What they refuse to do is imitate Western follies such as pre-choice or LGBT. And they keep such narratives far away.

I admire the Republic as a model for how a White state should be guided.

Ahnenerbe
Monday, January 30th, 2017, 03:21 PM
Iranian policies on abortion and transsexualism in particular deviate from concensus interpretation of Islam: the Islamic Republic is not fundamentalist by nature but flexible and innovative. What they refuse to do is imitate Western follies such as pre-choice or LGBT. And they keep such narratives far away.

I admire the Republic as a model for how a White state should be guided.


The same could more elegantly be achieved with Zoroastrianism...

There is a Facebook page managed by Persians that want Back to Zoroastrianism (https://www.facebook.com/followzarathushtra/). Totally anti-Moslem and they post interesting stuff. I praise those people.

BTW, Trump should let the Zoroastrian Persians in and ban entry of Saudis instead, rather than taking that primitive anti-Iran stance.

Catterick
Monday, January 30th, 2017, 06:42 PM
The same could more elegantly be achieved with Zoroastrianism...

There is a Facebook page managed by Persians that want Back to Zoroastrianism (https://www.facebook.com/followzarathushtra/). Totally anti-Moslem and they post interesting stuff. I praise those people.

BTW, Trump should let the Zoroastrian Persians in and ban entry of Saudis instead, rather than taking that primitive anti-Iran stance.

Shia is essentially Zoroastrianism. And yes we should support Aryan religious minorities in Persia, Kurdistan and elsewhere. Like Afrikaaners they face extermination at times however the Zoroastrians of Iran are under no threat.

Juthunge
Monday, January 30th, 2017, 10:17 PM
The same could more elegantly be achieved with Zoroastrianism...

There is a Facebook page managed by Persians that want Back to Zoroastrianism (https://www.facebook.com/followzarathushtra/). Totally anti-Moslem and they post interesting stuff. I praise those people.

BTW, Trump should let the Zoroastrian Persians in and ban entry of Saudis instead, rather than taking that primitive anti-Iran stance.

How about not letting either in? Modern Persians whatever their religion are - and have been for a few thousand years - as alien to us as Arabs.
Yes, we share certain linguistical, cultural and religious features with Indo-Iranian peoples but that doesn't bridge the racial gap that has existed for almost as long.

The mere study of foreign ideologies and general pursuit of knowledge is of course beneficial to everyone. But only as long as it doesn't go hand in hand with racial foreigners residing in our lands.


Shia is essentially Zoroastrianism. And yes we should support Aryan religious minorities in Persia, Kurdistan and elsewhere. Like Afrikaaners they face extermination at times however the Zoroastrians of Iran are under no threat.

We should do no such thing, getting involved - again - in any form in middle eastern sectarian conflicts is the least Europe needs right now.

And quite frankly, I find the comparison to the Afrikaners a bit insulting to them.
One is a Germanic ethnicity that paved the way for a Southern African state and now gets persecuted in the same for being white, the other is the syncretism of Proto-Indo-European and Middle Eastern thought of a people foreign to us. That's not exactly the same deal.