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Haldís
Saturday, December 3rd, 2005, 04:47 AM
All other things being equal, whom would you prefer as a companion in life?

Why?:)

Dr. Solar Wolff
Saturday, December 3rd, 2005, 05:04 AM
Help me please! In English, Teuton means German but in the most narrow sense it means German as in Deutsch. So, by the narrowest definition an Anglo-Saxon would be an Anglo-Saxon and not a Teuton although the Saxons came from the general area of Teutobergerwald. Are non-Germans, in the nationalistic sense, Teutons?

nordic_canadian_male
Saturday, December 3rd, 2005, 05:40 AM
Help me please! In English, Teuton means German but in the most narrow sense it means German as in Deutsch. So, by the narrowest definition an Anglo-Saxon would be an Anglo-Saxon and not a Teuton although the Saxons came from the general area of Teutobergerwald. Are non-Germans, in the nationalistic sense, Teutons?


I think she means teuton as in germanic. I personally would prefer to date a spanish nordic than to date an alpine german. Racial type is much more important, plus that nordic spaniard might be a direct descendent from the goths [Rule 1: Anti-Germanic remark deleted.]

GreenHeart
Saturday, December 3rd, 2005, 10:00 AM
A Celtic nordic or a Scandinavian is racially just as good as a German nordic, however I also prefer for a nordic person to have some brunnish blood in them. But I also consider brunns to be a type of nordic, or maybe the ancestor of the nordic. UP blood flows strongly through Germany and all the other nations of related blood.

In most places the Hallstatt nord and UP subraces have mixed so extensively you can no longer find a pure specimen of either. Since both are superior races there is little need make a distinction between the two when choosing a mate.

Haldís
Monday, December 5th, 2005, 08:40 PM
Help me please! In English, Teuton means German but in the most narrow sense it means German as in Deutsch. So, by the narrowest definition an Anglo-Saxon would be an Anglo-Saxon and not a Teuton although the Saxons came from the general area of Teutobergerwald. Are non-Germans, in the nationalistic sense, Teutons?I use "Teutonic" when I talk about the tribes or people, while "Germanic" is more the language, but maybe they are synonyms. :)

http://www.synonym.com/synonym/teutonic


A Celtic nordic or a Scandinavian is racially just as good as a German nordic, however I also prefer for a nordic person to have some brunnish blood in them. But I also consider brunns to be a type of nordic, or maybe the ancestor of the nordic. UP blood flows strongly through Germany and all the other nations of related blood.

In most places the Hallstatt nord and UP subraces have mixed so extensively you can no longer find a pure specimen of either. Since both are superior races there is little need make a distinction between the two when choosing a mate. You highlight good points. I was thinking more in the lines of Hallstatt Nordic.

It's a dodgy question I thought about. As you said, the Nordic race has been mixed extensively with the other Northern races. Most of it is found in the Teutonic peoples which are Nordish. I don't think I'm 100% Nordic, so Nordish is fine. I don't think I could come along with a Nordic Spaniard or Romanian, lol. Culture, our gods and tradition is a very important part in my life, and I want my children to be Germanic. Thence, I'd opt for the Teuton. :)

Jäger
Tuesday, December 6th, 2005, 05:18 PM
I use "Teutonic" when I talk about the tribes or people, while "Germanic" is more the language, but maybe they are synonyms. :)

http://www.synonym.com/synonym/teutonic
Then I don't get it, why can't I be a teuton and a nordic?

CountBloodSpawn
Tuesday, December 6th, 2005, 06:01 PM
Then I don't get it, why can't I be a teuton and a nordic?

I know right, I'm happy taking any chick who is purely Indo-European
with a gorgous athletic looking figure

Haldís
Tuesday, December 6th, 2005, 06:15 PM
Then I don't get it, why can't I be a teuton and a nordic? You can be a Teuton and a Nordic. :)

Jäger
Tuesday, December 6th, 2005, 06:40 PM
You can be a Teuton and a Nordic. :)
Oh sorry, I was confused at first, but now I get your question :D

Loki
Tuesday, December 6th, 2005, 07:27 PM
I would prefer the option which was not stated, i.e. Teuton and Nordic. :)

However, given the range of options, I opted for the second choice. Why? Simply because race runs deeper than ethnicity, and especially meta-ethnicity.

A non-Teutonic Nordic child can be taught to learn Germanic culture, and be thus transformed into a Teuton for all practical purposes. However, a non-Nordic person can never become Nordic, because race is less superficial than culture and language.

My two cents, especially for Discordia. ;)

Dr. Solar Wolff
Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, 03:36 AM
Then I don't get it, why can't I be a teuton and a nordic?


Well, isn't that the point? You can be both Nordic and non-Teuton or Nordic and Teuton or Teuton and Alpine, etc.

How many guys out there would turn down one of those Russian tennis stars because she was Slavic? Certainly there are Polish, Baltic and Finnish girls who can look super-Nordic. On the other hand there are Med., Alpine and other types who are Teutons. I think the question revolves around how important culture is to you or is the ideal physical type the most important.

Bismark
Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, 07:53 AM
Personally in a mate, I would prefer a female of mostly UP heritage, specifically Borreby, or Brünn; the right Alpine would not be out of the question either (in general alpine women are the ones I have been most sexually attracted to).

I don't acknowledge the supposed Hallstatt/Keltic Nordic supremacy, which seems to be the view held by many. The genetic supremacy in any species is determined by the largest breeding population, not intelligence, or strength, or any other adaptation, though they may aid in survival. The individuals who have the greatest number of offspring contribute most to the next generation, not necessarily those who have the attributes we humans consider superior. Nature determines gene supremacy, not man. Given this, what can be said to compare Teutonic Up Survivors, to Teutonic Nordics?

UPs are the 'true' northwestern Europeans, descended from cromagnid (mostly), and have inhabited Europe for 20,000 + years (arguably 100,000's of years if you believe Neanderthal - 'Modern' hybridizing gave birth to cromagnid). The Nordics are more recent immigrants to Europe, decedent primarily from the Danubians who spread their branch of the Indo-European language, and culture throughout northern Europe around 3500 B.C.E. What positive attributes can we assign each group? The UPs have a larger cranial capacity (CC correlates positively with IQ (though weekly)); UPs excel in strength/contact sports: weightlifting, wrestling, short distance running, and swimming, etc. Proto-Nordics brought us much of our Teutonic language, and cultural, as well as agricultural revolutions when they invaded northern Europe; Nordics excel in stamina/precision sports: football (American soccer), basketball, long distance running, and swimming, etc. Of the Nordics, and UPs it can be said of both of them, that finding a individual 100% genetically pure of either type is improbable, and finding a pure breeding population would be likely impossible.

Discordia, I realize that it was likely not your goal to make a claim for placing Nordics on a pedestal in the Teutonic Population. However, that is what this thread has attempted to do. It does not ask: what is more important in selecting a mate, sub-race, or culture? It asks: what is more important in selecting a mate, Nordicism, or Teutonicism?

Siegfried
Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, 08:25 PM
The results of this poll are rather interesting and, in some cases, a bit surprising. :)

Leofric
Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, 08:46 PM
I've been thinking about this question for a long time — well, at least since Discordia posted it.

I voted for the non-Teutonic Nordic, for much the same reasons that cyclone spoke of. But I wouldn't have been able to go with that had Discordia not put the phrase "all other things being equal."

I have a problem with that phrase. I know it has to be here in questions like this, but it still seems to me to put the question beyond anything having to do with reality. From my perspective, it is never the case that all things are equal between a Teuton and a non-Teuton. If it were possible to find a non-Teutonic Nordic that were the equal to a Teutonic non-Nordic in every way but race and meta-ethnicity, then sure, I'd choose the non-Teutonic Nordic (probably one of the reasons for this, in addition to cyclone's reasoning, is the fact that I would find her more attractive — my personal preference). But in my opinion, every non-Teutonic Nordic is categorically inferior to every Teutonic, Nordic or non-Nordic — there's just far too much in the equation that depends on Teutonicity without being inherent to Teutonicity that I think it's impossible to equalize everything but race and meta-ethnicity.

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, 10:26 PM
The results of this poll are rather interesting and, in some cases, a bit surprising. :)
Ja, as you may remember from several articles and discussions held in Comparative Primatology (http://forum.forums.skadi.netdisplay.php?f=116) the chimpanzees and homo sapiens are closely related, sharing several sequences of the genetic code, furthermore the Tre2 gene links the higher primates even closer to humans, to which it is actually unique and differentiates humans, as well chimps, gorillas and orangutans, from non-human-like primates, like macaques.

Of course, the cortex between us and the chimps is clearly differentiated in a way that neural activity among humans is of a higher scale, to greater cognition and specialized brain regulation which leads to greater, more refined and complex socio-cultural systematisation. Chimps and other higher primates are still lingering in a pre-cultural stage (read (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=29892)), however evolution and bio-engineering will perhaps one day provide the necessary agency to increase cognition, intelligence and organisation.

So, while there are still evolutionary and aesthetic thresholds to overcome, some primates exhibit typical Nordic/Nordish fetish traits like a pale-rosy or greyish-white skin (chimps) and a beautiful red hirsuteness (orangutans), so
given some more time, these humanized primates will be herald as exquisite companions to other Nordic/Nordish males and females...if and only if they're capable to shed off their derived theromorphic morphology for constitutional and cranio-facial progressiveness!

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, 11:26 PM
On a serious note, this woman fits easily somewhere in the Nordic-UP spectrum of variability, but if you knew her genetic, racial and cultural background, would anyone who voted for a non-Teutonic Nordic as best match really approve her as companion and possible mother to your children?

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, 11:30 PM
She's a Kabyle Berber woman from Algeria...

And bear please the following conclusion on Magrebine skull morphology in your mind, and its implication on problems of gene pool and history...


However, the centroid
value of the combined Maghreb series indicates
that the major craniometric pattern is
most similar to that of northern dynastic
Egyptians, not northwest Europeans. Furthermore,
the series from the coastal Maghreb
and northern (Lower) Egypt are more
similar to one another than they are to any
other series by centroid values and unknown
analyses.
The upper Nile Valley series show close
affinities to one another and to troDical African
series. Thus variation is also present in
the Egyptian Nile Valley, as the northern
pattern trend is distinguishable from the
southern one. The Badari and Nagada I cranial
patterns emerge as tropical African
variants (with Kerma). Badari remains show
little affinity to the mass of Maghreban crania.
Notable Nagada/Kerma metric overlap
is observed with the first dynasty series,
which shares the pattern to a lesser degree,
as indicated by its centroid values.
In summary, canonical variate analysis
demonstrates the impressive variation suggested
previously for early northern Africa.
It also suggests that there was a modal
craniometric phenotype common to northern
Egypt and the coastal Maghreb in the mid-
Holocene, intermediate to European and
southern Egyptian Nile Valley/tropical series.


Read further on the issue in the pdf

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, 11:43 PM
...or to make a comparison, a Tasmanian Tiger might have been striped like a tiger and bearing a dog's head, but it's genetically linked to his close relative the wombat, we deal here with an example of parallel evolution, whereby the similitude is never identical, often flawed or its purpose as effect lacking the same cause agent...

The Black Prince
Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, 11:49 PM
Most likely prefer woman of Northwest-European culture (or descendants living in America/Australia/..etc.).

Leofric
Thursday, December 8th, 2005, 06:34 PM
Goswin_van_Eyck, I think your Berberess gives a great example of what my point was. As a thought exercise, imagining a situation wherein a non-Teutonic Nordic could otherwise be equal to a non-Nordic Teutonic would incline me to favor the nT N over the nN T, but when you try to apply the thought exercise to real life, it becomes as problem-ridden as applying introductory theoretical physics problems to firing real artillery across a real, windy battlefield. The simplified theoretical physics problem works great in an airless environment, if you can breathe long enough to do the calculations and aim the gun and if you can get the powder to ignite.

I voted for the nT N, but only within the context of the thought exercise that allows the Nordid Berber to be the equal of the Alpinid German — a situation which clearly has no bearing on real life.

As for your discussion of the Tasmanian tiger, although that's clearly a case of convergent evolution, I don't believe we're dealing with convergent evolution when we see Nordics from the Barbary coast — I think that's inheritance. The Tasmanian tiger is much more different physically from the feline tiger than a Nordic Berber is from a Nordic Swede — if the physical similarity between the N Berber and the N Swede were only that superficial, then they wouldn't both be classified as Nordic, or even human. The similarity between the Tasmanian tiger and the feline tiger is even less than the physical similarity between a Negroid and a Europoid. The Negroid/Europoid similarity might well be due to convergent evolution (I personally tend to think it is), but I really don't believe convergent evolution can explain such a high degree of similarity as exists between a Nordic Berber and a Nordic Swede. My guess on the etiology of Nordic Berbers would tend toward issues of Völkerwanderung.

Vestmannr
Thursday, December 8th, 2005, 10:00 PM
I think there is a flaw in denoting the Algerian as a "Nordic" - maybe para-Nordic or psuedo-Nordic, but still not genetically/phenotypically Nordic. Has she been measured as Nordic? IOW, it would be a redefinition of Nordic. So - what about 'Teutonic' people of Black African descent (ie, Teutonic mother, African-American father - raised in Germany)? If one can bend a definition of a physical term: Nordic, then can one apply the same to a cultural term: Teutonic. (I'll be a purist here, and claim the original Tuetons were Gauls.) ;)

Glenlivet
Thursday, December 8th, 2005, 10:31 PM
http://earlson.skadi.net/reeh/08/192a.jpghttp://earlson.skadi.net/reeh/08/192b.jpg
Algeria, blond Kabyle

Racial characteristics carry more weight in the long run. A Mediterranid in England is no Englishman.

"The p-Celtic languages are almost universally associated with the invaders of Britain in the pre-Roman Iron Age (the La Tène period). That these men occupied south-east Britain to a considerable extent there can be no doubt, and it is highly probable that their physical type is far more characteristic of the English plain to-day than any part of Wales, save for the Severn valley. Yet it is Wales that talks the p-Celtic language, which may have reached it in Roman times, while the Severn valley and the English plain have taken to English speech. Thus we see how inadvisable it is to speak of language-groups as race-groups."

Herbert John Fleure, D.Sc, The Peoples Of Europe, Language Families, p. 19, Oxford University Press, London, 1925.

Thumelicus
Tuesday, December 20th, 2005, 05:58 PM
I would rather marry a German, I don't care what they are. By German, I obviously mean someone who isn't half-black (what a stupid statement). I want my children to be raised in their culture, first and foremost. The darkest haired Dinaric or Alpine German from Saxony is more racially appealing to me than any "Nordic" North American, at least I can be reasonably certain she isn't 1/64th black or 1/16th Cherokee or has some sort of strange admixture. With Americans, one never knows. The rumor of having a black ancestor haunts them more than most Europeans realize. I feel a certain degree of compassion for them, but not when they attack my people because of their own racial insecurity.

Haldís
Saturday, December 24th, 2005, 08:39 PM
I would prefer the option which was not stated, i.e. Teuton and Nordic. But that would be an easy choice. :):)


However, given the range of options, I opted for the second choice. Why? Simply because race runs deeper than ethnicity, and especially meta-ethnicity. Ok, this is what I don't believe, and I tell you why.

I agree that blood is thicker than water but what is blood? Blood refers to the family, water to other relationships like friends, religion, politics, etc. But the extended family is the tribe or ethnicity and not the race.

I believe that the tribe runs deeper than race. Look at wars, for example. I said this to Anarch once: there was never a race war in history. Never in history did the Nordics of Europe, from Spain to Russia, unite against other races. But all over history, tribes and ethnicities composed of different races fought other tribes and ethnicities composed of different races, often even the same races, because the tribe is the family.

I believe that the tribe runs deeper than race. The tribe is the family and the family is a genetic unit. All charts and data I've ever seen suggest that the members of an ethnicity are genetically closely related. That makes sense because they have bred with each other for hundreds if not thousands of years. They are composed of different races and people look sometimes very different (Nordic, Dinaric, Alpine, etc.) but they are related.

You can see this even in the immediate family.

A family from Denmark:
http://www.laksefeber.dk/images/2000/Familie%20juli%2000.jpg

I don't know much about this classification business. In fact, I don't believe in it, so I never bothered, because I remember that 10 people gave me 10 different classifications: http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=40147&postcount=31

So you look at the people yourself and assign the races. But I see long-headed people, square-headed people, round-headed people... people with dark curly hair and people with red and blond hair. But they are all related....

There is a German family from Helgoland, portraying three generations:
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=47375

The kids are brother and sister. You assign the race. But I believe they have genetically more in common with each other than a Nordic from England and a Nordic from Russia.

I see this all the time. Types changing and reappearing in our people. There was a fancy picture in a paper I saw yesterday: father strawberry blond to brunette, mother dark-brown hair. I would say they both looked robust, but the son was more like a light-blond Nordic, while the daughter looked more like her:
http://www.airshow-magazin.de/images/payerne_show46.jpg

I wondered how darker people can have children with very blond hair. The boy was at least 16 or 17. I think it is because tribes and ethnicities are related, the genes are there recessively and they recombine.


A non-Teutonic Nordic child can be taught to learn Germanic culture, and be thus transformed into a Teuton for all practical purposes. However, a non-Nordic person can never become Nordic, because race is less superficial than culture and language.
I was sent a picture once of "exotic" Nordics from Arabia. What do they and the Spanish Nordics have to do with us?

I think Franz_Josef and Glenlivet understand what I mean. This UP woman Franz posted is a good example. What does this woman have to do with us? Should I believe that her genes fit into Germany or America despite the fact that probley all her ancestors were bred in Africa? Appearance can be deceiving.... I don't know how to express this but there is maybe something like pseudo-appearance.

The true Nordics are almost all Germanic. I am not sure if it does something good to assimilate Nordic-looking people from Spain, Italy, Greece and the Balkans.


My two cents, especially for Discordia. ;) You know, two wongs don't make a white. :)

The Black Prince
Saturday, December 24th, 2005, 09:40 PM
I believe that the tribe runs deeper than race. The tribe is the family and the family is a genetic unit. All charts and data I've ever seen suggest that the members of an ethnicity are genetically closely related. That makes sense because they have bred with each other for hundreds if not thousands of years. They are composed of different races and people look sometimes very different (Nordic, Dinaric, Alpine, etc.) but they are related.



So you look at the people yourself and assign the races. But I see long-headed people, square-headed people, round-headed people... people with dark curly hair and people with red and blond hair. But they are all related....



There is a German family from Helgoland, portraying three generations:
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=47375
The kids are brother and sister. You assign the race. But I believe they have genetically more in common with each other than a Nordic from England and a Nordic from Russia.


I agree (but check the remark ;) ),
I always liked the example of the blonde nordic looking Italian and his neighbour who is a dark alpine, if purely based on anthropometrica you would say that the nordic looking guy is closer to a Scandinavian than to his neighbour, but genetics may prove that he might even be further away(Hence, one of the neighbour his forfathers was a Dane).

http://www.sitesled.com/members/racialreality/race_genes.gif



I don't know much about this classification business. In fact, I don't believe in it, so I never bothered, because I remember that 10 people gave me 10 different classifications: http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=40147&postcount=31


Well I partly agree because Agrippa was right on mine ;)

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=41874




I see this all the time. Types changing and reappearing in our people. There was a fancy picture in a paper I saw yesterday: father strawberry blond to brunette, mother dark-brown hair. I would say they both looked robust, but the son was more like a light-blond Nordic, while the daughter looked more like her:
http://www.airshow-magazin.de/images/payerne_show46.jpg


My family is the same thing somewhat :)
My father and mother are Anglosaxon, I'm somewhat the same mix, but my sister is Keltic-Nordid or Nordid + Atlantid

Remark

But I also think if a certain phenotype is dominant in the family / tribe,
e.g. the forfathers all look nordid or corded or etc.. the chance is the greatest that offspring will look the same of course :D

Haldís
Saturday, December 24th, 2005, 10:45 PM
I agree (but check the remark ;) ),
I always liked the example of the blonde nordic looking Italian and his neighbour who is a dark alpine, if purely based on anthropometrica you would say that the nordic looking guy is closer to a Scandinavian than to his neighbour, but genetics may prove that he might even be further away(Hence, one of the neighbour his forfathers was a Dane). That's what I think also. Latin, Slavic and Germanic Nordics resemble each other superficially but genetically they are different.

Population samples from Germany and Russia also showed similarities to Polish populations, with relatively small RST-values on pairwise comparisons (0.0176-0.097). It is noteworthy that all but one of the comparisons between the six Polish populations and the Russians revealed statistically non-significant differences (0.05 0.001). These genetic similarities are most probably a result of the common Slavic origin. On the other hand, small genetic distances between all of the Polish-German population pairs were statistically significant (P<0.0001), which might reflect the different background of Slavic-speaking and German-speaking populations. The significant differences revealed between Polish and German samples are especially striking, since the two populations have had close contact during the last millennium and both have inhabited the territory of present-day Poland. This demonstrates a continuous lack of admixture between Germans and Poles, most probably for social, religious and cultural reasons.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12107446&dopt=Abstract

My family told me I have little Polish but that's only because my father's family is from America. I am not even sure. It's one of these rumors that are afloat among my uncle's kin. Because nobody can point to a Polish name, I now begin to believe that they just want to be Polish to be exotic. I am also Finnic and Lithuanian, and tomorrow I will probley be native American or from Hawaii. :D

With Southern Europeans it's far worse, btw:

http://sophistikatedkids.com/turkic/40%20Language/TurkicAndIEsEn_files/image002.gif

SouthernBoy
Saturday, March 18th, 2006, 05:08 AM
I am a Teuton and would prefer a non-Nordic Teuton.I am not sure that I chose correctly. :P

János Hunyadi
Saturday, March 18th, 2006, 11:24 PM
Ethnic unity is more important then sub-racial unity.

Common sense indicates that most German Nationalists/Racialist's would prefer a brown haired/eyed Dinaric German from Bavaria over a Blonde haired blue eyed Nordic Polish immigrant.

Austrian Nationalist's should prefer an Alpinid Austrian over some Nordic looking Bosniak.

Hopefully, British Nationalist's would prefer the most darkly featured Paleo-Atlantid or the swarthiest Atlanto-Med over a Nordic looking Jew.

Heksulv
Monday, March 20th, 2006, 09:01 PM
I'm partially Teuton, mostly Slav though, and I seek someone of a similar mix.

Based solely on features, another Pontid/Dinarid/Alpinid would be most attractive to me.

Though subrace matters somewhat to me, White is White.

Theudiskaz
Monday, March 20th, 2006, 09:07 PM
How about "I am a Nordic Teuton and would prefer a Nordic Teuton."?!

Oswiu
Monday, March 20th, 2006, 10:01 PM
Racial characteristics carry more weight in the long run. A Mediterranid in England is no Englishman.
Give over! Englishmen were made in the period from 450 to about 1066 or even later. An Englishman and an Angle are two different things.

That aside - am I a Teuton? English, in sentiment and upbringing, but with almost half Irish blood?
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=48976&d=1136998085
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=364279#post364279
[I apologise for flashing this picture around far too often, but I'd like to see Glenlivet's reaction!]

'Teuton' is a rather clumsy word to use, but I think the gist of the thread is about 'culturally/traditionally Germanic in background', yes?

In which case I am a Teuton. I find Mediterranids attractive, and my longest relationship was with a Russian girl of such a stock. I love the Slavs, I spent four years among them, and wouldn't exclude them from anything I take part in. I suppose that means I'm being pushed into option three, which is hardly the most diplomatically phrased!

Theudiskaz
Monday, March 20th, 2006, 10:21 PM
"Teuton" basically means any one who is (predominantly) of Germanic descent, speaks a Germanic language, and is culturally Germanic. I think in this case, however, it is being used to include people who are non-nordid and perhaps non-nordish racially speaking. To me, the word "Teuton" carries a nordish racial connotation along with an ethnic connotation.

As for "Englishmen" and "Angles" being the same thing, or not the same thing, that's a really complex topic; racially, culturally, and epistemologically.

RusViking
Tuesday, March 21st, 2006, 07:46 PM
.......

In most places the Hallstatt nord and UP subraces have mixed so extensively you can no longer find a pure specimen of either. Since both are superior races there is little need make a distinction between the two when choosing a mate.

Sorry darling...I will have to call you on this one. Superior races.....I am waiting to see how you defend this statement. Start with how one would measure superiority.....

However, I will give you the opportunity to back away from your statement.

RusViking
Tuesday, March 21st, 2006, 07:54 PM
FYI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teuton

Jäger
Wednesday, March 22nd, 2006, 10:39 AM
Sorry darling...I will have to call you on this one. Superior races.....I am waiting to see how you defend this statement. Start with how one would measure superiority.....
Superiority is a subjective conception to an extent, since success is very subjective as well.

To preserve a cetain race, you have to view this race as worthy to be preserved, so basically you have to value this race above all others, or else it would be not logical to want to preserve it.

That's the crux, since it is subjective, all races can have, and do have, their people who think they are master racy :P

RusViking
Wednesday, March 22nd, 2006, 04:13 PM
Superiority is a subjective conception to an extent, since success is very subjective as well.

To preserve a cetain race, you have to view this race as worthy to be preserved, so basically you have to value this race above all others, or else it would be not logical to want to preserve it.

That's the crux, since it is subjective, all races can have, and do have, their people who think they are master racy :P

Jager,

It is my opinion that the word and concept of superiority should not be used in comparisions of humankind. Quite a pitfall and ultimately untenable.

Also, one need not value a particular "race" above all others to want to preserve it.

It is true what you say about all "races" having their own people who think they are the true master race.

Best,

Rick

Jäger
Wednesday, March 22nd, 2006, 05:42 PM
It is my opinion that the word and concept of superiority should not be used in comparisions of humankind. Quite a pitfall and ultimately untenable.
I agree, because the conception of superiority differs too much.


Also, one need not value a particular "race" above all others to want to preserve it.
I think that is dishonest. If I would consider blacks equal to whites, I wouldn't care about miscegenation. Why should I?
This doesn't mean of course, that I can't acknowladge great accomplishments of other races nor does it mean everyone else is useless.

RusViking
Thursday, March 23rd, 2006, 09:47 PM
I agree, because the conception of superiority differs too much.


I think that is dishonest. If I would consider blacks equal to whites, I wouldn't care about miscegenation. Why should I?
This doesn't mean of course, that I can't acknowladge great accomplishments of other races nor does it mean everyone else is useless.

Jager:

I think it is best to take each as an individual and not deal in generalizations. If you don't you may be in for a nasty surprise. It may be appropriate to not like someone because of the individual's color of skin, or their nappy hair or their lack of intelligence much as I may not like someone because they are ugly. Preservation of your people and culture is the ticket, not elimination of other people or cultures. Although I am not a proponent of miscegenation and I do think it best to marry your own kind, it is worse never to love at all.

Best.

Jäger
Friday, March 24th, 2006, 09:03 AM
I think it is best to take each as an individual and not deal in generalizations. If you don't you may be in for a nasty surprise.
Race means grouping people by their traits, not only physical ones.
If you believe in race, you believe in generalizations.
What kind of surprise would that be? As I said superiority is subjective, this doesn't mean other races/sub-races can't do no good.


Preservation of your people and culture is the ticket, not elimination of other people or cultures.
Well, the elimination of people is not necessary, after all most people actually do their part to berich the world. :)


Although I am not a proponent of miscegenation and I do think it best to marry your own kind, it is worse never to love at all.
I guess that's the reason why we have ordered russian/vietnamese brides.

The problem in presuing your own individual happyness is, that it is not related to the future, you live in the presence, and why should you do any good for the future? Thus the destruction of our race/environment in the pseudo liberal societies.

Klegutati
Sunday, March 26th, 2006, 03:00 AM
Well, Saxons are a mix between the Teuton tribe, Celtic Cimbri, and Baltic Slavs... This is proven through DNA tests, and they are the most accurate...:thumbup I do believe that most Saxons are for the most part of paternal Celtic ancestry, but they also have Germanic paternal ancestry..

Jäger
Sunday, March 26th, 2006, 10:48 AM
Well, Saxons are a mix between the Teuton tribe, Celtic Cimbri, and Baltic Slavs... This is proven through DNA tests, and they are the most accurate...:thumbup I do believe that most Saxons are for the most part of paternal Celtic ancestry, but they also have Germanic paternal ancestry.. I don't know why you wrote this, but anyway, who are the baltic slavs? And what saxons do you mean?

Zyklop
Sunday, March 26th, 2006, 11:24 AM
Well, Saxons are a mix between the Teuton tribe, Celtic Cimbri, and Baltic Slavs... This is proven through DNA tests, and they are the most accurate...:thumbup Source?

Klegutati
Sunday, March 26th, 2006, 01:55 PM
I mean the Saxons of the dark ages, in Northern Germany, and Coastal Denmark. Not every Teuton was mixed, but this explains for the different haplogroups in the Saxon peoples. Here is a link;

http://www.northseabalticgroup.org/

Jäger
Sunday, March 26th, 2006, 04:14 PM
I mean the Saxons of the dark ages, in Northern Germany, and Coastal Denmark. Not every Teuton was mixed, but this explains for the different haplogroups in the Saxon peoples. Here is a link;

http://www.northseabalticgroup.org/ Interesting paper, but I consider it not scientific to say the least.


About 600 years earlier, during the second and first centuries BC, a Celtic tribe, the 'Cimbri', located in western Jutland (Denmark), and Teutons ( 'Teutones') from the lower Elbe area of Germany, aided by a small number of Slavs ('Vandals') from the Baltic region, began to combine their forces to wage war against the Roman empire. Since when are the Vandals slavic? And since when are the Cimbri celtic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbri
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connection_between_Poles_and_Vandals (this should be interesting in particular)

nooneatall
Saturday, April 22nd, 2006, 10:11 AM
I think she means teuton as in germanic. I personally would prefer to date a spanish nordic than to date an alpine german. Racial type is much more important, plus that nordic spaniard might be a direct descendent from the goths [Rule 1: Anti-Germanic remark deleted.]And I would prefer to date Lindsay Lohan.

Angelcynn Beorn
Friday, July 14th, 2006, 03:12 AM
I voted for non-Nordic Teutonic. Any Teutonic women born of Teutonic parents has Nordic blood in them. Their ancestors have been part of the formation of a Nordic culture, country, and way of life.
The fact that they themselves have a medish or aplinish phenotype can just as easily be the random recombination of latent non-Nordish genes their parents may have been carrying.

A non Teutonic Nordic would not have contributed to the success of mine, or anyone elses, teutonic country. They would have a completely different outlook on life, and loyalty to another country and meta-ethnicity that i couldn't identify with.
Similarly to the previous example, the fact that they have a Nordic phenotype could simply be a random recombination of latent genes. The rest of their family could quite concievably be non-Nordic.

Also, the last thing on Earth i would want any children of mine to do would be to start identifying with their mothers cultures and moving over to southern Europe to settle down with a southern European partner. Nothing non-Nords having their own culture, but i want my children to celebrate mine.

Thorburn
Friday, July 14th, 2006, 03:37 AM
A non-Teutonic Nordic child can be ... transformed into a Teuton ...

However, a non-Nordic person can never become Nordic ... You are comparing Nordic to Teuton with non-Nordic to Nordic.


... because race is less superficial than culture and language. Which will be the result of such a comparison, yes. It's like stating that one can make a pie from lemons, but that non-lemons will never become lemons.

Non-lemons could become another ingredient of the pie, though, and only through the combination of lemons (Nordics) with eggs, sugar, butter, flour, milk and salt (other Teutonic subraces), you get an excellent dish (Teutons). We leave the sushi, mutton, kudu, noodles, chili, curry, beans, &c. away, because albeit they are excellent ingredients for other recipes (cultures), they don't combine so well with our pie ingredients.

Kaiser
Wednesday, August 30th, 2006, 01:32 AM
Out of these choices I had to choose Nordic first. Kultur is Race gone to seed. A most excellent book on this is: "Defensive Racism" by Edgar J. Steele. I believe one's Kultur reflects the thousands of generations of selective breeding we have inherited for sure. Obviously, Kulture must be reinforced with decent upbringing and proper education to include Lore and a sincere love for one's Folk. At the end of the day, however, "monkey see monkey do" will not cut it when it comes to stern reflections of one's DNA.

These troubling times we see our Kultur, both in Race and of Heritage, being assaulted on every front. How can one defend one's Heritage if one's Kultur via Race is being erased and even demonized? Not long thereafter, the Race itself is befuddled and mixed into oblivion. Nevertheless, the resurgence of Racial preservation and Racial pride as seen on this fine forum is no doubt due not only to what many here have been taught, but a deeper more innate instinct welling up from within us strongly urging our Folk to band together and promote that which we know constitutes our Stock's survival and ability to thrive long into the future.

Hence, things such as breast implants, bleached blonde hair, dental whitening, braces, laser eye surgery liposuction, and botox, as well as make-up to a lesser degree, can obfuscate what one's true genetic potential is in diligently seeking out a most suitable mate. The man or woman may be fooled on the surface, but the true Race can not escape manifestation in the traits of the offspring born. Therefore, unless one is totally brainwashed into total self-hate, Race is far more vital in choosing a mate than ethnic heritage alone, in my estimation. Although to have both is a blessing indeed.

Kaiser

flavius
Thursday, August 31st, 2006, 01:08 PM
He / She must be of nordic-aryan blood. That is the main thing

Aspire
Saturday, September 2nd, 2006, 05:29 PM
There is a lot of confusion on this thread. The truth, as I see it, is that Teutons=Germanics and all Nordics, all Goths, all Celts, as well as Anglos and Saxons and a high proportion of slavs all count as Teutons/Germanics. That is unless they have mixed with another sub-race that is not Germanic.

What is this nonsense about it being possible to be Nordic yet not Teuton/Germanic?

Where was the Tree of Thorburn? Germany!

Geographic separation led to some different characteristics in these Teutonic groups but they are from the same root.

Theudiskaz
Saturday, September 2nd, 2006, 05:44 PM
There is a lot of confusion on this thread. With the highest concentration on your post.;)
The truth, as I see it, is that Teutons=Germanics and all Nordics, all Goths, all Celts, as well as Anglos and Saxons and a high proportion of slavs all count as Teutons/Germanics. Well, that is not the truth. "Teutonic" is synonymous with "Germanic". Celts, whether they be Nordid or not, aren't Teutonic. It's a contradiction in terms.

Thusnelda
Saturday, September 2nd, 2006, 08:41 PM
He / She must be of nordic-aryan blood.
What has "aryan" to do with nordic?

Todesritter
Saturday, September 2nd, 2006, 09:00 PM
There is a lot of confusion on this thread. The truth, as I see it, is that Teutons=Germanics and all Nordics, all Goths, all Celts, as well as Anglos and Saxons and a high proportion of slavs all count as Teutons/Germanics. That is unless they have mixed with another sub-race that is not Germanic.

What is this nonsense about it being possible to be Nordic yet not Teuton/Germanic?

Where was the Tree of Thorburn? Germany!

Geographic separation led to some different characteristics in these Teutonic groups but they are from the same root.



You may have a man who is "Celtic Nordic" physically, but is linguistically, and culturally Germanic, and a native citizen of Germany by blood as far back as his ancestors can be traced in history. This hypothetical person could be described "Teutonic/Germanic".

Likewise you could have a very Norse looking, physically "Hallstatt Nordic" woman in Scotland or Ireland, who we might say was culturally Germanic (English/British influenced culture), or Celtic depending on how we choose to account the modern Anglified people of the traditional remaining Celtic lands. If this hypothetical individual spoke a Celtic language, she could be considered "Nordic" physically, while Celtic (non-Germanic) culturally and linguistically.

The beautiful people of Finland, Estonia and other surviving culturally and linguistically Baltic-Finnic areas, are not only non-Teutonic/Germanic, but also by origin non-Indo-Aryan/Indo-European culturally and linguistically - i.e. their ancient ancestors stem from a completely different source linguistically and culturally from "Germanic" with any traceable proto-language that might have tied the two groups so far back in time we would consider them unrelated. However, many would say they are among the most "Nordic" physically on average of any country you could choose to survey.


It sounds like there is confusion between words we use for culture, language, and blood-ethnicity, which will make for a whole lotta debate that goes nowhere useful and leaves people more confused than when they started reading and responding.

Aspire
Sunday, September 3rd, 2006, 12:58 PM
To what extent do we use the term "Germanic" to mean a racial group rather than linguistic? The ancient Germanics did not have round, alpine skulls but long skulls. They behaved as Nordics are reknowned to behave rather than as alpines behave.

Regarding the Finns (I'm half Finnish myself, on my mother's side - so I have Finnish mitochondria) I found this information:



In the 1970s and 1980s, Professor Harri Nevanlinna and his colleagues did valuable work on the Finnish genotype by studying the range and distribution of various blood traits in our population. It was discovered that Finns had the same general traits as other European peoples, although they also have some that are almost completely lacking elsewhere in Europe. All in all, Finns proved to be very homogeneous genetically. A comparison of Finnish traits with those of the Baltic peoples showed that Finns and Estonians share two-thirds of their genes: Finns and Latvians 25-50%. On the basis of the nuclear traits, it was concluded that 25-50% of Finnish genes are Baltic, approximately 25% Siberian and 25-50% Germanic.
http://virtual.finland.fi/finfo/english/geeneng.html

Also from this site:


It can be concluded on the basis of research findings that the mitochondrial DNA of Finns is very close to that of other European peoples, both Finno-Ugric and Indo-European. Research on mitochondrial DNA supports the assumption of a western, Indo-European genotype for the Finns. This view conflicts to some extent with conclusions made on the basis of research on nuclear genes. In these studies Finns differed significantly from most other Europeans. However, the conflict may be only apparent and more likely reflects a difference in time perspective etc

If Germanic is a distinct racial type: how does it really look that different to Nordic or Celtic (by celtic I am referering to the ancient warrior caste of Celts) ?
I can see how it would differ from Alpine. Some of the trouble is that modern Germans are less like ancient Germanics than many Finns are, yet they hate to admit it.

Todesritter
Sunday, September 3rd, 2006, 07:10 PM
To what extent do we use the term "Germanic" to mean a racial group rather than linguistic? The ancient Germanics did not have round, alpine skulls but long skulls. They behaved as Nordics are reknowned to behave rather than as alpines behave.

Regarding the Finns (I'm half Finnish myself, on my mother's side - so I have Finnish mitochondria) I found this information:


http://virtual.finland.fi/finfo/english/geeneng.html

Also from this site:

etc

If Germanic is a distinct racial type: how does it really look that different to Nordic or Celtic (by celtic I am referering to the ancient warrior caste of Celts) ?
I can see how it would differ from Alpine. Some of the trouble is that modern Germans are less like ancient Germanics than many Finns are, yet they hate to admit it.

True, to a degree, there are many who were absorbed into the 'Germanic' sphere in times since the Germanic Volkerwanderung, particularly up to the 19th century, who would not be considered even distantly related to the original Germanic bloodlines. Mediterranean types, Huguenot refugees to Protestant Germany, for instance, and various types found in the Balkans and along the Adriatic Sea absorbed into the Austro-Hungarian sphere. The descendents of these people most often completely "Germanized", culturally, and thus have followed the retracting borders of the German speaking lands.

So today, we have the situation where in the surviving core area of German culture, that perhaps once was much more homogenously Nordic (what people rightly or wrongly stereotype as being the ideal/original German), but today has German speaking people, often with Germanized names, and frequently with little concept of the fact that only a few generations earlier their ancestors counted as a separate ethnicity, who on examination by physical type would not be out of place in southern France, or Macedonia but seem a little odd in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.

Siegfried
Sunday, September 3rd, 2006, 07:18 PM
What has "aryan" to do with nordic?

The various Indo-European peoples arguably descend from a fairly Nordoid population. A bit by Coon that supports this theory:

"The Danish Iron Age crania form a homogeneous group. They belong definiiely in the same class with the other Iron Age Nordics of Lausitz Urnfields inspiration, and more particularly the purely long-headed element in the Keltic blend, for the low vault and cylindrical transverse profile of the Keltic crania are also common here. Except for the lesser breadth of head and face, and greater vault length, they closely resemble the Keltic crania of Gaul and of the British Isles, and those of the Scythians, while they are virtually identical with the Armenian Iron Age skulls discussed in the last section. The Danish Iron Age crania, then, are probably the same as those of the ancestral proto-Kelts before their arrival in southwestern Germany, and of the ancestors of the Scythians and eastern Iranians."

from The Races of Europe, Chapter VI 'The Iron Age', section 6 'The Germanic peoples' (emphasis is mine)

In short: Coon suggests Germanic, Celtic, Scythian and Iranian strains appear to have emerged from a Nordoid source.

Jäger
Sunday, September 3rd, 2006, 11:32 PM
Huguenot refugees to Protestant Germany
Hugenots were racially diverse, and serve as a bad example here.

Oswiu
Sunday, September 3rd, 2006, 11:34 PM
The various Indo-European peoples arguably descend from a fairly Nordoid population.
...
In short: Coon suggests Germanic, Celtic, Scythian and Iranian strains appear to have emerged from a Nordoid source.

I suppose we can tack Slavonic onto there too?

In which case, we have all the Northern varieties accounted for. But can we be so sure for the more southerly IEans? Italics I'm fairly confident about, given their earlier original affinities with the protoCelts, but what cranial information do we have for the Palaeobalkan family? Or the [pre-metis] Anatolians?

Theudiskaz
Sunday, September 3rd, 2006, 11:52 PM
I suppose we can tack Slavonic onto there too?
Yes. The early Slavs were largely Corded Nordids, according to Coon.


Italics I'm fairly confident about, given their earlier original affinities with the protoCelts, but what cranial information do we have for the Palaeobalkan family? Or the [pre-metis] Anatolians?
I'd like to know about them too. I'll have to start reading more of the Races of Europe. I just got it in the mail.

Andrew boy
Tuesday, October 10th, 2006, 08:57 PM
I am a Teuton and over all would choose a healthy, full-blooded Teuton, instead of a possibly racialy defective Nordic just because of their apperance is Nordic, hwne their race could be something un-teutonic.

Pawb
Friday, February 2nd, 2007, 09:15 PM
I am confused ... I am a mixture of celtic and german and I would go for either of the above, being a pagan, it is religious, the gods must be the same as my ancestral gods, so nords / germans and irish/scots only ... no brown eyes, maybe to brown hair, I prefer blondes or redheads to dark hair, really it's more about pale and no brown!
I think my racial type is a celtic nord ... not sure though.

Æmeric
Friday, February 2nd, 2007, 10:10 PM
I'm confused. By Nordicism are we refering to "race" & Teutonicism to culture?

OneEnglishNorman
Friday, February 2nd, 2007, 10:46 PM
I'd choose even a very unprogressive cultural Germanic whose ancestors are grounded in England/Western Europe rather than a very progressive Nordid from outside Western Europe who is supposedly going to possess progressive characteristics.

I'd rather go with what is proven, and that is the peoples of Western & Northern Europe.

Leofric
Saturday, February 3rd, 2007, 12:07 AM
I'm confused. By Nordicism are we refering to "race" & Teutonicism to culture?
I think the main idea was this — if you were forced to choose, as a breeding partner, between someone who's Nordic/Nordid (subracially) but not Germanic (meta-ethnically) on the one hand and someone who's Germanic but not Nordic/Nordid on the other, who would you choose?

Is Germanicism more important, or subracialism?

The poll asks us to assume that everything else between these two people is equal. Personally, I find that a difficult assumption to make. There is so much inequality between, say, a Nordid Berber and an Alpinid Bavarian that trying to pretend they are comparable is somewhat laughable. I can assume that neither is more criminally-minded, I suppose, and that each is equally well-schooled. But the Bavarian seems to me to be so obviously superior to the Berber as a mate that it's pointless to try to compare them.

Papa Koos
Saturday, February 3rd, 2007, 12:19 AM
I'm a wee bit confused (a state that comes effortlessly with my 6 decades of life). I've always thought that "Teutonic" is the general catagory into which northern, western, eastern, and southern Gemanic peoples belong. Isn't "Nordic" kind of a subset within Teutonic?

Æmeric
Saturday, February 3rd, 2007, 12:28 AM
In that case I would choose Nordicism. I would prefer my grandchildren (I'm already married to a Anglo-Canadian woman) be racially Nordic & culturally Teutonic. Of course some people say Americans have no culture so what does it matter ;). Culture is more flexible. For example if one of my sons married a Nordic woman from Argentina or Brazil & raised his children in a Latin culture,they would still be Nordic. There is always the possibility that they might choose to assimilate into a Teutonic culture. On the other hand if my son married someone of non-Nordic race his children would not be Nordic no matter what culture they were raised in. It's like the old saying "you can always put more spice in but you can't take it out,". You cannot change a persons race & non-Nordic racial traits could persist for generations.

FinstererStreiter
Monday, February 5th, 2007, 04:20 PM
"I would prefer a non-nordic teutonic". I care for Germanic heritage, not for subrace. Alpinid, Faelid, Nordic...to whereever the love goes.

Leofric
Tuesday, February 6th, 2007, 10:05 PM
I'm a wee bit confused (a state that comes effortlessly with my 6 decades of life). I've always thought that "Teutonic" is the general catagory into which northern, western, eastern, and southern Gemanic peoples belong. Isn't "Nordic" kind of a subset within Teutonic?
Nordic, as it's used here, refers to a subrace. There are Nordic people in many nations, not just the Teutonic ones, and there are many Teutons who are not of the Nordic subrace — a very large number of Teutons are Alpinid or Cro-Magnid, for example.

For more information on subraces, see the following fora:
Physical Anthropology (http://forums.skadi.net/physical_anthropology-f70.html)
Europoid (http://forums.skadi.net/europoid-f497.html)
Nordid (http://forums.skadi.net/nordid-f108.html)
Cromagnid (http://forums.skadi.net/cromagnid-f673.html)
Alpinid (http://forums.skadi.net/alpinid-f452.html)
Anthropological Taxonomy (http://forums.skadi.net/anthropological_taxonomy-f238.html)

Theudiskaz
Wednesday, February 7th, 2007, 12:44 AM
To me, the dichotomy between choosing either a non-Teutonic Nordid, or non-Nordid Teuton seems unnecessary. I don't know how it is where you guys live, but here, Teutons look like Teutons. They are Nordid. The dilemma of choosing between the one option or the other is foreign to me.

karolvs
Tuesday, February 13th, 2007, 05:24 PM
So, I am english, welsh, irish, german, and scottish, do I count as Teutonic ? Does anyone have any idea what subrace I would be a part of ?

Kaliausia
Friday, March 23rd, 2007, 01:44 AM
I am not Teuton, and would prefer a non-Nordic Teuton,because pure nordic women are not attractive to me. But better I would prefer Lithuanian-baltic, alpine or lapponic :)

Aethelwulf
Wednesday, September 3rd, 2008, 04:48 AM
I wasn't sure if I was a Teuton or not? :tired2:


I'm Australian but my heritage is 1/2 Dutch, 1/4 Scottish, 1/8 English and 1/8 Irish.


As for if I would choose a Teutonic or Nordic female? To me as long as they are of "White" European heritage then I'm not too worried.

arthor
Wednesday, September 3rd, 2008, 05:17 PM
cyfarchion

I am a northern European. Of that large group, I take some Celt from my Welsh side and some Germanic from my English side. I am not sure what that makes me from a Teutonic point of view.
I would want my companion to also be Northern European but she could be norse, german, celtic or any combination. Definitely NOT Asian, Oriental, Negroid, American indian and any others that escape me right now. However, I can understand that some may consider southern europeans or slavs may be more acceptable than those others I just mentioned.
Having said all of this, I get a bit confused about the meta this and meta that.

wasshael

Tancred
Thursday, September 4th, 2008, 11:15 AM
I would never date someone who wasn't a native English speaker. Race is a factor, but nationality and culture do matter.

Skin colour does bother me, because I am repulsed by dark skin of any racial group. I also prefer women with curvaceous, voluptuous womanly bodies, not 'size zero' types - this is much more important to me than whether the woman is blonde, redhead or brunette.

signofthehammer
Friday, September 5th, 2008, 10:48 AM
I have to agree with those others who are a tad confused. I always thought teutonic was just a synonym for germanic, in the linguistic, cultural, and racial sense. Hence isn't a Nordic just a type of teutonic/germanic person. Hence Scandinavian languages belonging to the 'Northern' Germanic language group, as opposed to English or Dutch or German which is 'Western' Germanic. It's all Teutonic/Germanic...

Sissi
Thursday, September 18th, 2008, 05:21 PM
I'm not even sure if I am Nordic, many Austrians aren't, and I can't imagine myself being with a person who doesn't know anything about my culture, language and traditions. I have nothing against the Nordic Russians or Finnish, but they are not my people. Why would I want to spend my life with a foreigner? Austrians for me, please. :)

Imperator X
Thursday, September 18th, 2008, 07:52 PM
I have seen some incredibly beautiful ruddy-faced, platinum blonde Norse women... but I have also seen some gorgeous red-headed ginger Britons and Irish, but, alas, I have also a soft spot for some E. Indian and Persian population groups, to say nothing of Greco-Italic Mediterraneans who are verily pulchritudinous!
Pic 1: Depiction of Roman Matron. Pic 2: Persian Shohreh Aghdashloo at 26. Pic 3: Shohreh at 56. swadisht! Farishta-e!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/Kalidasa/Matronaromana.jpghttp://www.iranian.com/Quiz/2003/November/Images/zan.jpghttp://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/events/JTM-005847.jpg

TheGreatest
Thursday, September 18th, 2008, 09:44 PM
Both.
Phenotypes and Culture are both important. I would never date a Russian women because she has a Slavonic culture. Though I did go out with an Germanized Ukrainian (Canadian) because she did fit the criteria under phenotype and culture.


My line of thought is more common among Americans than Europeans. Europeans have a strong sense of attachment to their countries, even to the extent of ignoring appearences. While in America a lot of us are "Euro-Mutt". So there's less of an emphasis on culture (and the fact that American = Germanic culture) and more on phenotype and upbringing.


Though that does not mean North America is void of Europeanism. Myself I am not one bit attracted to Italians or any Mediterreans. I see myself as Northen and Central European and don't plan to mix out of that. I was in Italy and asked myself "That's It?" when it came to the so called sterotype of Italian beauty

Nachtengel
Monday, September 22nd, 2008, 11:25 AM
I vote I am a Teuton and would prefer a non-Nordic Teuton but I hope this only includes other Europid Teutons like Faelid, Alpinid, Dinarid, Baltid, and so forth, and not non-Europid or racially mixed "Teutons". I actually would like an Atlantid subracially, with dark hair, pale skin and blue eyes. Like me. :)

Aspire
Monday, November 10th, 2008, 12:06 PM
I couldn't vote for any of those choices since Nordics are Teutons/Germanics that went to Scandinavia. Racially they are the same.

I have no clue what a non-Nordic Teuton would look like, but suppose it's one that doesn't happen to have Scandinavian heritage.

Cythraul
Monday, November 10th, 2008, 01:56 PM
Clearly the best prospect is to find someone subracially similar to oneself, of the same cultural background as oneself. Perhaps the question should have been:

I am a Teuton and would prefer a Teuton who is subracially dissimilar to myself.
I am a Teuton and would prefer a non-Teuton who is subracially similar to myself.

Pairing up with a pure 'Nordid' is actually not the ideal for many of us, believe it or not. This whole thread seems to rely on Nordicist values and is therefore only truly relevant to the pure Nordids on the forum.

The Dragonslayer
Thursday, November 13th, 2008, 04:34 AM
Honestly I'm not sure what I would even be considered. lol I'm of English, Scot-Irish, German, Dutch & Italian heritage. I don't know that I have a preference when it comes to a woman. Obviously I want her to be of white European descent, but I'm not sure I could say she has to be of Swedish, German, etc. type of descent. I would someone I'm attracted to on many levels. A woman that I would want to be committed to and raise a family with.

SouthernBoy
Thursday, November 13th, 2008, 04:48 AM
In hindsight, I should have picked the fourth choice. ;)
I am not a Teuton.

Anfang
Thursday, November 13th, 2008, 06:14 AM
Sachsisch # 1 , Then North Dutch, Jute, English (A/S) Frissian, Southern Swedish. But Someone with meat on her bones, lol. I Don't like Skinny.
My type has allways been the same since I was old enough to date. I have never dated or had a relationship with with Anyone who was not soulfull, tall , strong, robust, blue eyed and faithful. intelligent, seriousand *instictively* Volkisch. That can mean a little bit of a cranky German. Two people who look like my ideal are Zarah Leander and Nadine Kleinert.


I am not attracted to non Europeans of any type.

Bärin
Thursday, September 17th, 2009, 07:22 AM
There is only one answer for a true German nationalist: no xenophilia. No non-German Nordids from Russia, Finland, Poland, Spain or other lands.

I'm not even Nordic, eventhough I have blond hair. My husband is Faelid probably, not Hallstatt. Our son has German traits.

Eoppoyz
Wednesday, September 23rd, 2009, 06:53 PM
I still don't get it. Is Teutonicism the same as Germanicism?

Nachtengel
Thursday, September 24th, 2009, 12:12 AM
I still don't get it. Is Teutonicism the same as Germanicism?
Yes. Teutonic is a synonym of Germanic.


Teu·ton·ic (t-tnk, ty-)
adj.
1. Of or relating to the ancient Teutons.
2. Of or relating to the Germanic languages or their speakers.
n.
Germanic.

Eoppoyz
Friday, September 25th, 2009, 12:05 AM
Yes. Teutonic is a synonym of Germanic.

Thank you! I want a Nordic Union just like the old Kalmar Union.

Nachtengel
Friday, September 25th, 2009, 12:18 AM
Thank you! I want a Nordic Union just like the old Kalmar Union.
I still don't think you understood the question of this thread.

Imagine you only had a choice, between two women you could marry: one is an Alpinid Swede, with brown hair and brown eyes. The other is a Nordid Russian, with blonde hair and blue eyes. Whom would you prefer?

NorthWestEuropean
Friday, September 25th, 2009, 12:20 AM
There is only one answer for a true German nationalist: no xenophilia. No non-German Nordids from Russia, Finland, Poland, Spain or other lands.

I'm not even Nordic, eventhough I have blond hair. My husband is Faelid probably, not Hallstatt. Our son has German traits.

You are making a mistake here. You take Nordids as the only ones being Nordic. It is not the same thing. As far as I know, nordicism is an ideology originating from Richard McCulloch, and McCulloch believes that basically all Northern Europeans are Nordic (Nordish). So from a nordicist perspective, any types from Scando-Nordids, like Götatyp, to East Baltids are count in.

I have no idea how many times I on different forums have been taken, and called, a nordicist. I have lost count. So I guess that I have to confess myself to that ideology, since I apparently have always held it without knowing it. I just happen to like blue eyes.

But I guess that I am both a nordicist and a "teutonicist". I don't think that (genetical) Germanics should mix themselves with others, but I also think that Germany in the future should be more racially aware about Nordic traits. This means that those "swarthy" Germans should intermix with Nordics, and then confess their children to do the same. In the long run, the recessive traits will win, and Germany will be much more Nordic than it is today.

Eoppoyz
Friday, September 25th, 2009, 12:28 AM
I still don't think you understood the question of this thread.

Maybe that. I'm sick so I can't concentrate me so good since few days back.


Imagine you only had a choice, between two women you could marry: one is an Alpinid Swede, with brown hair and brown eyes. The other is a Nordid Russian, with blonde hair and blue eyes. Whom would you prefer?

Not sure. I have brown hair and brown and green eyes. I may choose the Alpinid Swede but I prefer a blonde woman. It depends. I prefer to choose a Swedish woman.

Nachtengel
Friday, September 25th, 2009, 12:34 AM
You are making a mistake here. You take Nordids as the only ones being Nordic. It is not the same thing. As far as I know, nordicism is an ideology originating from Richard McCulloch, and McCulloch believes that basically all Northern Europeans are Nordic (Nordish). So from a nordicist perspective, any types from Scando-Nordids, like Götatyp, to East Baltids are count in.

I have no idea how many times I on different forums have been taken, and called, a nordicist. I have lost count. So I guess that I have to confess myself to that ideology, since I apparently have always held it without knowing it. I just happen to like blue eyes.

But I guess that I am both a nordicist and a "teutonicist". I don't think that (genetical) Germanics should mix themselves with others, but I also think that Germany in the future should be more racially aware about Nordic traits. This means that those "swarthy" Germans should intermix with Nordics, and then confess their children to do the same. In the long run, the recessive traits will win, and Germany will be much more Nordic than it is today.
Are you saying that Nordid Germanics shouldn't mix with "swarthy" Germanics, and "swarthy" Germanics should mix with Nordids from other countries, or what? :confused

From a progressive point of view, I think it would be better for a Nordid to reproduce with an Atlantid, than with an East-Baltid, even if the Atlantid is "swarthier", because metrically they are more harmonious.


Not sure. I have brown hair and brown and green eyes. I may choose the Alpinid Swede but I prefer a blonde woman. It depends. I prefer to choose a Swedish woman.
Then you are a Teutonicist/Germanicist.

Eoppoyz
Friday, September 25th, 2009, 12:45 AM
Then you are a Teutonicist/Germanicist.

Lucky me. ;)

NorthWestEuropean
Friday, September 25th, 2009, 12:59 AM
Are you saying that Nordid Germanics shouldn't mix with "swarthy" Germanics, and "swarthy" Germanics should mix with Nordids from other countries, or what? :confused.

I wrote that I think the swarthy ones should mix with German Nords, but it should be under "racially aware circumstances". I also wrote Nordic (which includes Dalo-Faelids etc too), not Nordid. And by swarthy, I mean Southern European-looking Mediterranoid Germans, like Goebbels. Not Atlantids.


From a progressive point of view, I think it would be better for a Nordid to reproduce with an Atlantid, than with an East-Baltid, even if the Atlantid is "swarthier", because metrically they are more harmonious.

Balto-Nordids usually have dominating Nordid features, or at least so I wouldn't say that Nordids gets "hurt" by mixing with them. It would be quite opposite, I'd say.

Here is a 183cm guy with a 192cm Baltid / East Baltid (Eastern) Swedish father and a 158cm Sub-Nordid mother, since she is brachycephalic (and he, nor his father, has "Asian" eyes, it is just the camera lightning) :

http://i36.tinypic.com/96hlbb.jpg

Height - check. Skull index under 80 - most probably check. Light features - check.

Perhaps he doesn't look textbook Nordid, but he sure doesn't look proper Baltid either (since Baltids can't have long heads), other than perhaps some of the facial features.

Both his parents "earned" something by breeding with each other. The short mother had a somewhat tall son, and the father had a son with a longer head than himself. Good example in overall of why "aimed breeding" should be wanted in a healthy society.

AngloTeutonic
Friday, September 25th, 2009, 01:54 AM
But that would be an easy choice. :):)

Ok, this is what I don't believe, and I tell you why.

I agree that blood is thicker than water but what is blood? Blood refers to the family, water to other relationships like friends, religion, politics, etc. But the extended family is the tribe or ethnicity and not the race.

I believe that the tribe runs deeper than race. Look at wars, for example. I said this to Anarch once: there was never a race war in history. Never in history did the Nordics of Europe, from Spain to Russia, unite against other races. But all over history, tribes and ethnicities composed of different races fought other tribes and ethnicities composed of different races, often even the same races, because the tribe is the family.

I believe that the tribe runs deeper than race. The tribe is the family and the family is a genetic unit. All charts and data I've ever seen suggest that the members of an ethnicity are genetically closely related. That makes sense because they have bred with each other for hundreds if not thousands of years. They are composed of different races and people look sometimes very different (Nordic, Dinaric, Alpine, etc.) but they are related.

You can see this even in the immediate family.

A family from Denmark:
http://www.laksefeber.dk/images/2000/Familie%20juli%2000.jpg

I don't know much about this classification business. In fact, I don't believe in it, so I never bothered, because I remember that 10 people gave me 10 different classifications: http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=40147&postcount=31

So you look at the people yourself and assign the races. But I see long-headed people, square-headed people, round-headed people... people with dark curly hair and people with red and blond hair. But they are all related....

There is a German family from Helgoland, portraying three generations:
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=47375

The kids are brother and sister. You assign the race. But I believe they have genetically more in common with each other than a Nordic from England and a Nordic from Russia.

I see this all the time. Types changing and reappearing in our people. There was a fancy picture in a paper I saw yesterday: father strawberry blond to brunette, mother dark-brown hair. I would say they both looked robust, but the son was more like a light-blond Nordic, while the daughter looked more like her:
http://www.airshow-magazin.de/images/payerne_show46.jpg

I wondered how darker people can have children with very blond hair. The boy was at least 16 or 17. I think it is because tribes and ethnicities are related, the genes are there recessively and they recombine.


I was sent a picture once of "exotic" Nordics from Arabia. What do they and the Spanish Nordics have to do with us?

I think Franz_Josef and Glenlivet understand what I mean. This UP woman Franz posted is a good example. What does this woman have to do with us? Should I believe that her genes fit into Germany or America despite the fact that probley all her ancestors were bred in Africa? Appearance can be deceiving.... I don't know how to express this but there is maybe something like pseudo-appearance.

The true Nordics are almost all Germanic. I am not sure if it does something good to assimilate Nordic-looking people from Spain, Italy, Greece and the Balkans.

You know, two wongs don't make a white. :)

Very well put. Although I voted for non-nordic teuton, I still wasn't 100% sure why I chose that option. But you convinced me that I chose the right option.

When Germany and France went to war, there were blonde Germans and black-haired Germans fighting blond French and black haired French. But there was never a war between German and French blondes fighting black haired Germans and French. There have been race wars throughout history (although quite rare), but they were always between two different races, not two different phenotypes.

Still, a nordic ideal should be encouraged like in the past. Nordic genes are proven to be better, there are actually studies saying people are naturally attracted to blondes more than any other people. Also, blondes are known for their intellegence and drive for conquest, despite blondes being portrayed by the jew media as ditzy and stupid. Ever heard of the term "blonde-ambitions". Blondes have always had the will to conquer the world, just look at Germanic people who are typically nordic.

Resist
Saturday, March 17th, 2018, 10:54 AM
Hypothetically speaking, all things being equal, I would no doubt choose Teutonicism (the non-Nordic Teuton), although ideally I would prefer both Nordic and Teuton. Why Teutonicism? Some people in this thread have made arguments that culture is fluid, while race isn't. However, that what we see (i.e. phenotype) is only a partial expression of genes. The genotype is as important, if not even more so. What we see on theoutside is not necessarily how our children will look like.

A blond haired, blue eyed Turk or Berber might be more of a "gamble" than a dark brown haired, brown eyed Netherlander or Dane, simply because the former has a higher potential of bringing non-Germanic genes into the stock, which I may not see manifesting in the phenotype. Then a few generations down the line, surprise (e.g. the case of the "black and white" twins). We see such results in mixed families. The brown haired, brown eyed Icelander, who has nothing but Icelanders in their family tree on the other hand has the potential to produce children of Germanic stock, be they brown haired or blond haired. So basically, in the first case (non-Teuton Nordic), it's a gamble - you might have blonde/blue children but you also also dilute your ethnos and have to teach Germanic culture to a mixed child. In the worst case, you neither preserve phenotype nor genotype, and you end up with a hybrid child, with an identity crisis. While in the second case (non-Nordic Teuton), you might not preserve your phenotype, but then you preserve both genotype and identity.

Blod og Jord
Wednesday, March 21st, 2018, 02:42 AM
I don't think it needs to be either or. There are many Nordic Germanics so there is no need to extend outside our own boundaries. Those who like light features can choose a partner with those features. However, it's not a garantee that everyone in the family will have them. Even in the same family it can happen that a person has light features and a person darker.Light persons have the ability to produce darker pigmented children and vide versa.

But outside of that, I don't think it has a bearing. Germanic and Nordic overlap but they're not the same thing. For example, Finns are Nordic, but not Germanic. I think we should keep within the Germanic borders.

Aelfgar
Wednesday, March 21st, 2018, 10:41 AM
Teutonic means exactly the same as Germanic. Nordic means the same as well, except geo-politically when it includes Finns and Finland.

Some Germanic identitarians are worse than teenage schoolgirls for obsessing over apperances! The idea of a Nordic race is a myth; there is no genetic, scientific evidence for it. As Blod og Nord says, there is no need (normally) to search outside your own kind for a partner.

It boils down to a matter of immigration policy. If you must have immigrants then only allow those native to nearby countries (with perhaps occasional exceptions).

Finnish Swede
Wednesday, March 21st, 2018, 12:10 PM
Personally I tend to avoid word Nordic for people. I use it only to describe Nordic countries (the society models and/or culture bonds). To classiyfy one individual person? His/hers phenotype? Then Nordid, Sub-Nordid, Trønder, Hallstatt-Nordid etc. are just fine....no matter of his/hers ethnic.

What comes to people; I prefer to use Scandinavian. By then it is easy (and right) to leave ethnic Finns outside.

And between Teuton and Scandinavian? Well, I surely value all Germanic cultures ... but .... I'm what I'm.

Sigebrond
Wednesday, March 21st, 2018, 03:12 PM
Few of us are Teutons, because few are descended directly from the Teutonic tribe. It doesn't matter, because all Germanic people have the same roots (along with Celtic and Slavic peoples, with the exception of traces of Mediterranean ancestry among Celtic peoples).

Unless you're talking about repeatedly debunked phenotypes pseudoscience - pay attention to recent genetic studies that have told us a lot about migration patterns instead, that and basically use your eyes. You can tell by looking at someone if they are broadly speaking Nordic, and if they have dominant Nordic traits.

LdyPrussia
Wednesday, March 21st, 2018, 06:57 PM
I think you are splitting hairs in the poll since they are both Germanic tribes or like "cousins" to me. The cultures vary more than real genetic differences. Having a stronger German background and identity, I married someone Scandinavian descent and I don't see much differences except for more blonde hair expressed rather than the reds currently. The red heads seem to be dieing out over the last three generations in our family. Our family line has been Anglo-Saxon and Nordic influenced for over 500 plus years through marriages. The languages come from similar cultures, hence the "Germanic" name. Maybe in earlier times, the tribes had more cultural difference than you experience today in modern societies. I don't know how much language shapes our world culturally or even influence over our thinking patterns and behaviors among Germans and Norwegians. Take the word skin: Danish (hud), German (haut),and English (skin from Old Norse skinn). English is said to be closer to Old Norse and Frisian being more isolated from the mainland. Lots of people forget the Frisian influences in Briton.

Aelfgar
Thursday, March 22nd, 2018, 10:24 AM
Few of us are Teutons, because few are descended directly from the Teutonic tribe. It doesn't matter, because all Germanic people have the same roots (along with Celtic and Slavic peoples, with the exception of traces of Mediterranean ancestry among Celtic peoples).Surprisingly, Norwegians also have a Med (Spanish) element which must be very ancient. Presumably, most Germans have it too.

I think we underestimate how quickly populations can change (somewhat) in appearance. They reckon male and female Scandinavian faces looked more alike in Viking times: http://sciencenordic.com/what-vikings-really-looked


The skeletons reveal another difference between us and the Vikings: men’s and women’s faces were more similar in appearance in the Viking Age than they are today.

“It’s actually more difficult to determine the gender of a skeleton from the Viking era,” says Harvig. “The men’s skulls were a little more feminine and the women’s skulls a little more masculine than what we’re seeing today. Of course, this doesn’t apply to all skeletons from the Viking period, but generally it’s quite difficult to determine the gender of a Viking Age skeleton.”

She explains that Viking women often had pronounced jawbones and eyebrows, whereas in the men, these features were more feminine than what archaeologists are accustomed to when trying to determine the gender of ancient skeletons.

The skin on the skeletons has looked much like it does on most of today’s Danes. Genetic studies have shown that even back then there was a healthy mix of blonds, redheads and dark-haired people, just like today. There were, however, more blond Vikings in northern Scandinavia in the area around Stockholm, Sweden, while there were more redheads in western Scandinavia, which Denmark belongs to.