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Ossetian
Friday, November 21st, 2003, 10:22 PM
https://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=111853&stc=1&d=1465972442

Haldís
Saturday, December 3rd, 2005, 04:04 AM
Dr. J. Douglas McDonald's maps of "Y Haplogroups of the World," "Y Haplogroups of Europe," and "mtDNA Haplogroups of the World."

Haplotype I
Tuesday, December 6th, 2005, 11:09 AM
Dr. J. Douglas McDonald's maps of "Y Haplogroups of the World" devised some maps.

I cross correlated them and came to this analysis.

According to McDonald, it appears R1a and R1b are recent (which is also good) advancements in the human European condition.

However, it is very interesting to note that the I group apparently pre-date R1a and R1b significantly.

What I do find interesting from studying his maps is that the Semtic (Jew) J marker is of the same age as the I (predominantly Iceland, Nordic, etc).
Which directly points to Humans living in Iceland and Sweden at the same time the Semites were in the deserts.

This also correlates with the new archealogical discoveries in Europe which pre-date the Sumerian-Semitic cultures.

So things are coming together in recent years proving European civilization began in the North at atleast the same time, most likely earlier, than any other civilization on earth.

Study McDonalds maps and diagrams.

Haplotype I is an old branch of Y Chromosone Haplotype.

It's the Fourth Branch out of Seven Branches of which the R1a and R1b are the most recent and common European genes.

I group is as old, same branch, as the J group. The J group is one of the Semitic groups.

Branches - numbers define age groups - derivation.

1.
A- African

2.
B - African
C - Asian
D - Southeast Asian
E - Southwest African
E3b - Northwest African

3.
F - Indian- Semitic
G - Aryan-Iranian-Lower Caucuses-Armenian
H - Indian and Tamil SubConstient almost exclusively
I - Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, England - tiny bits in Persia
J - Middle East Arabs almost exclusevely - Eastern Med some.
K - Black Sea, Italy, Estonia sea port. very rare.

4.
L - India and Sri Lanka exclusive.
M - Indonesia - Mayalsia
N - Finland vast majority. Spreads out to Estonia and Russia yes.
O - SouthEast Asia exclusively


5.
P - North American Native Indian
Q - America's Native Indians.
R - Sri Lanka, some Indian, Tibetan.

6.
R1a - Eastern Europe
R1b - Western Europe

Stage 6. is most advanced, modern genes, European of course.

Conclusion: The largest amount of old genes in Ireland, Sweden, Scotland, Britain, Norway is the I Haplotype of the Y Chromosone male gene.

Haplotype I
Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, 05:36 AM
Does anybody notice that Iceland has A Haplotype?

Iceland has more of the ancient African A Haplotype than any of the surrounding genetic nations.

Iceland also has more of the very old I Haplotype than any other ethnic group.

What does this possibly mean?

Well it could mean that the I Haplotype evolved from the A Hapoltype in Iceland area. This is a Key to determining if the I Haplotype came from Asia or from Iceland.

Revolutionary evidence to prove we (unlike what the Jews have been yelling at us for 2,000 years) did not come from an eastern migration, but a northwestern migration.

McDonald dated his Y Chromosone DNA Haplotypes from before the 1500's.

Ĉmeric
Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, 03:27 PM
Does anybody notice that Iceland has A Haplotype?

Iceland has more of the ancient African A Haplotype than any of the surrounding genetic nations.

The map I was looking at showed Iceland to be I, R1a, R1b with a small amount of Q. Q Haplogroup also shows up in Norway, the Faeroe Island , Shetlands & Orkneys. Some geneticists believe the Q Haplogroup was introduced into Northwestern Europe by way of the North Central Siberian Coast, but you have to wonder if it might be from Greenlandic Eskimos.

Haplotype I
Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, 08:21 PM
Thank You! What a relief.

It stands to logic as well as it being Q it would substantiate Europeans travelling along the edge of the ice cap across Iceland to North America in 15,000 BC, which lends credence to Whites settling America and Canada in the Eastern portions before the Asian-type Indians did.

Very good.

I was thinking about why I percieved the purple pie slice color as the more blue A (according to McDonalds color coding on his study) was because the red color of the R1a Y-chromosone Haplotype was right next to it which changed my color perception of that small Q Y-Chromosone Haplotype, adding more blue in my visual perception, which made me match it with the A. So I now understand how I made that error between McDonald's A and Q color coding and genetic maps.

A White Community helps eachother out. Thank you for speaking up and correcting me.

That is indeed a Q Haplotype in Iceland not an A Haplotype.

Jeffersonian
Tuesday, December 13th, 2005, 11:06 AM
Remember, there are peoples of J Haplotype who are not Jewish and they are just as German as anyone. Many Jews are as well having been participants of the development of our wonderful nations.

All Europeans without exception have ancestors who lived in the Middle East within the last 12,000 years. Being a mix of Paleolithic ice age survivors and Neolithic agriculturalists who immigrated from the Middle East around 10,000 BC. Our heredity is about 80% ice age survivor and 20% agriculturalist. Divisions of "white" and "non-white" in Eurasia is political, not genetic.

Both components of our 80/20 mix are responsible for the development of Europe's culture and advances. Give credit where it is due.

Jeffersonian
Tuesday, December 13th, 2005, 11:10 AM
I think Haplotype Q is old Norse.

Polak
Wednesday, December 14th, 2005, 11:15 AM
Q is arctic, and related to East Asian haplogroups.

Galaico
Monday, January 2nd, 2006, 11:33 PM
I - Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, England - tiny bits in Persia

The Haplotype I is only majoritary in Sweden and Norway. Iceland, Denmark and England are majoritary Western European (R1b).

Tiny bits in Persia? Tiny bits are found (and not so tiny in many cases) are found all over Europe and in some regions of the Indian sub-continent.

nurnberg
Tuesday, January 3rd, 2006, 04:14 AM
Q is arctic, and related to East Asian haplogroups.
Or possibly the entire interpretation is based on a false premise of common ancestries in the first place. Based on presumptions of Evolution Theory.

cosmocreator
Tuesday, January 3rd, 2006, 06:13 AM
J - Middle East Arabs almost exclusevely - Eastern Med some.

This extends all the way to Italy in a large way. I wonder if this is a result of the Ottoman Empire which didn't include Italy but did include much of SE Europe? Maybe SE Europe is the 20% (including recent immigrants of the last 50 years) that are not descended from UP European man?

I think the ancient Hellenic people were totally European but have been bred out by the western movement of Eastern types over the last 2500 years.

Greece's President looks totally European:
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=48204&stc=1&d=1136268703

but Greece's Prime Minister looks like a Middle Eastern "Armenoid" type:
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=48205&stc=1&d=1136268703

Scholar
Tuesday, January 3rd, 2006, 10:42 PM
Na, the Greeks really didn't mix with the Turks during the time of the Ottoman occupation. The Turkish tribes weren't Arab or "Middle Eastern" anyway, they originated from north and East of the Capsian Sea. The Turks using their Timar system took Greek and Balkan boys and brought them to Turkey, but not the other way around. The Greeks have remained unchanged for thousands of years.

cosmocreator
Wednesday, January 4th, 2006, 03:10 AM
Na, the Greeks really didn't mix with the Turks during the time of the Ottoman occupation. The Turkish tribes weren't Arab or "Middle Eastern" anyway, they originated from north and East of the Capsian Sea. The Turks using their Timar system took Greek and Balkan boys and brought them to Turkey, but not the other way around. The Greeks have remained unchanged for thousands of years.
Then how do you explain Marker J?
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=45840&d=1133582658

Found from Persia to Mideast Arabs to Georgia-Armenia to Turkey to Italy. Are we to assume that somehow it just jumped over Greece?

Galaico
Wednesday, January 4th, 2006, 11:45 AM
Then how do you explain Marker J?
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=45840&d=1133582658

Found from Persia to Mideast Arabs to Georgia-Armenia to Turkey to Italy. Are we to assume that somehow it just jumped over Greece?

20% of the Italian men carry the J haplotype, and almost 10% of the Southern Portuguese men. Where there any Turks in Italy or South Portugal?

It didn't just jump over Greece. The J, K, and E3b haplotypes were brought to some parts of Europe by the Neolithic agriculturalists 8,000 years ago, who came from the Middle East, when it was still White. 8,000 years ago, Turks were still living in Central Asia.

By the way, the J haplotype is closely related to the I haplotype, which was brought to Europe by populations coming from... yes, THE MIDDLE EAST, 20,000 years ago, and is identified with the Nordic population of Europe. In fact, the G, H, I, J and K haplotypes are all mutations of the F haplotype.

PD: Though it may look like my haplotype is not J, that is only shared by 2% of the Spanish men.

Scholar
Wednesday, January 4th, 2006, 06:15 PM
Ha, is there a definite that the J marker originated in the Middle East? For all we know, it originated in Greece and was spread by the Greeks.

Galaico
Wednesday, January 4th, 2006, 07:12 PM
Ha, is there a definite that the J marker originated in the Middle East? For all we know, it originated in Greece and was spread by the Greeks.

Haplogroup J played a crucial role in modern human development. These were the first farmers, a linage which originated in the Fertile Crescent some 10,000 to 15,000 years ago during the time of the Neolithic revolution. These people's success, and extensive migrations, eventually led to the rise of modern, settled communities and cities. This haplogroup is characterized by two important sub-groups, J and J2.

Haplogroup J, which is characterized by the marker 12f2.1, appears at its highest frequencies in the Middle East, North Africa, and Ethiopia, and its lowest frequencies in Europe, where it is observed exclusively in the Mediterranean area. It is representative of to distinct migratory events from the Middle East into North Africa. The most recent of the two migratory episodes is likely the result of the diffusion of the Arab people out of that region and accross the Mediterranean into parts of the Iberian peninsula.

Fruitful farming spurred growing populations and expasion throughout much of the Mediterranean world over the past 10,000 years. M172, the marker which defines J2, and important and closely related subset of J, is found in southern Europe aswell as the Middle East. In southern Italy it occurs at frequencies of 20 percent, and in southern Spain it appears at 10 percent. Successive migrations also carried these peoples through the river valleys of central Asia and into northern India.

The traces of this linage's ancient past can be seen not only in genes but on the ground at sites like Jericho (Tell el-Sultan), one of the world's settled oldest agrarian societies. After thousands of years of continuous occupation, we can trace the growth of Jericho and its people in a pattern repeated throughout the world of M172.

https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html

Galaico
Monday, January 30th, 2006, 06:22 PM
Haplotype diagram

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=50367&d=1138645335

Vetinari
Tuesday, January 31st, 2006, 09:09 PM
However, it is very interesting to note that the I group apparently pre-date R1a and R1b significantly.

How do you come to this conclusion? According to Semino, M173 has been in Europe for longer than M170.

http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p1155.pdf

Vetinari
Tuesday, January 31st, 2006, 09:11 PM
All Europeans without exception have ancestors who lived in the Middle East within the last 12,000 years.

What evidence is there to back up this statement?

Daglaf
Wednesday, March 1st, 2006, 12:16 PM
The Haplogroups study is very important. This work will help us better understand ourselves, our past,and our present. I'm sure it can easily be misused by those who lack a full knowledge of the subject though. Even the experts, I think, are still in the fact finding phase of their research.
I believe the Etruscans, for example, may have been J or E3b and these haplogroups entered Europe through the Roman legions. This is only a theory on my part. I can't say for sure until I have more evidence.
This is an extremely interesting thread.

Daglaf
Wednesday, March 1st, 2006, 12:26 PM
Tinman,
I like your post, though I respecfully disagree with your conclusions about the prime minister. He looks every bit like someone who had ancestors in ancient Sparta or Athens.

Klegutati
Saturday, March 25th, 2006, 10:56 PM
My Y-DNA is R1b, Anglo-Saxon sub-clade... Is it true that my ancestors were Continental Celts that intermarried with Germanic peoples? My last name is from Sussex, Downer. It is Saxon DŪN-ER meaning "Dweller at the bottom of the hill."

Galaico
Sunday, March 26th, 2006, 02:44 PM
My Y-DNA is R1b, Anglo-Saxon sub-clade... Is it true that my ancestors were Continental Celts that intermarried with Germanic peoples? My last name is from Sussex, Downer. It is Saxon DŪN-ER meaning "Dweller at the bottom of the hill."
It may, but it is not necessary. Having the R1b haplotype means that your ancestors on your male linage are of West Paleo-European origin. Terms such as Celtic or Germanic are more meta-ethnic, cultural and linguistic than racial.

It is true that among people of Celtic heritage, the R1b haplotype is found at very high rates (80%-100%), but the R1b haplotype is also majoritary in most Germanic countries:
Germany ~45%
Bavaria ~50%
Denmark ~52%
The Netherlands ~45%
England ~60%
Iceland ~48%

It is only found at low rates in Norway (30%) and Sweden (23%), and as you can see not so low.

Klegutati
Sunday, March 26th, 2006, 06:16 PM
I am Anglo-Saxon, since my ancestors settled in Southern England in and around 600CE, because my STRs of DYS390, and DYS391 are at 23/11. Here are my STRs;

DYS 19: 15
DYS 385a: 11
DYS 385b: 12
DYS 388: 12
DYS 389i: 13
DYS 389ii: 16
DYS 390: 23
DYS 391: 11
DYS 392: 13
DYS 393: 13
DYS 426: 12
DYS 439: 11

Klegutati
Tuesday, August 1st, 2006, 09:49 PM
Proven admixture among the Uralic peoples and Eskimos/Yakuts is quite fascinating.. They both seem to carry the Y-chromosome haplogroup N very common in Northern Asia..:D

Klegutati
Monday, November 27th, 2006, 02:05 PM
Q is arctic, and related to East Asian haplogroups.

It's also related to R.. N's brother group is O..:thumbup

Martial
Thursday, November 30th, 2006, 05:03 PM
What would Jesus' haplotype have been?

Ĉmeric
Thursday, November 30th, 2006, 05:22 PM
You can only guess at what Jesus's haplogroup was. J2 is the most common among Shepardim Jews.

Nagelfar
Thursday, December 21st, 2006, 12:29 AM
Very good population maps of patrilineal haplogroup population occurance & density in the major European Y-chromosomes;

http://www.relativegenetics.com/genomics/images/haploMaps/originals/I1a_large_RG.jpg


http://www.relativegenetics.com/genomics/images/haploMaps/originals/R1b_large_RG.jpg


http://www.relativegenetics.com/genomics/images/haploMaps/originals/R1a_large_RG.jpg


http://www.relativegenetics.com/genomics/images/haploMaps/originals/I1b_large_RG.jpg


http://www.relativegenetics.com/genomics/images/haploMaps/originals/N_large_RG.jpg

Mine is the first, I1a.

Klegutati
Wednesday, December 27th, 2006, 04:47 PM
I heard that R1b could also be representative of the Centum Indo-Europeans..:| Although, the experts say that R1b is Cro-Magnon.. Here is a whole thread from FamilyTreeDNA and DNA-forums about R1b confusion..:thumbdown

https://www.familytreedna.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2890

http://dna-forums.org/index.php?showtopic=329&st=100

Klegutati
Saturday, December 30th, 2006, 04:44 PM
6.
R1a - Eastern Europe
R1b - Western Europe

Stage 6. is most advanced, modern genes, European of course.


Many South Asians, Europeans, Caucasus Mt. people, and Central Asians have this DNA..:thumbup

Nagelfar
Sunday, December 31st, 2006, 10:53 PM
What I don't like about the inital map in the first post, is that it separates the subclades R1a & R1b broadly into different colors. Yet it doesn't separate I into I1a & I1b, which have the same amount of genetic difference. This would similarly place them into the north & east of Europe respectively, as R1b is to the west & R1a is to the east.


Stage 6. is most advanced, modern genes, European of course.

Many genes have extended markers giving them just as many mutations without having a different inital SNP, making them "just as modern". Simply because there are a greater amount of SNP mutations, does not mean that another haplotype doesn't have a greater amount of STR mutations. Also, mutations can be for better or worse; they really only represent how well those individuals could breed, not their otherwise socially creative influence on civilization.

Haldvan
Friday, March 16th, 2007, 07:49 AM
On the first page someone posted Y Haplogroups markers definition.
I don't see what mean MTDNA Haplogroups markers???
Have somebody any definition?

Teutonicus Fury
Wednesday, January 27th, 2010, 06:16 PM
Then how do you explain Marker J?
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=45840&d=1133582658

Found from Persia to Mideast Arabs to Georgia-Armenia to Turkey to Italy. Are we to assume that somehow it just jumped over Greece?

Actually , ancient greeks were J also


Many South Asians, Europeans, Caucasus Mt. people, and Central Asians have this DNA..:thumbup

Yes, but it is not the same branch as the one found in Europe (M269)

Archeopteryx
Sunday, February 14th, 2010, 11:20 AM
The Haplotype I is only majoritary in Sweden and Norway. Iceland, Denmark and England are majoritary Western European (R1b).

Tiny bits in Persia? Tiny bits are found (and not so tiny in many cases) are found all over Europe and in some regions of the Indian sub-continent.

This is a much belated response but anyhow here goes;

Haplogroup " I " has many subclades, but if you are talking about generic " I " then Bosina Herzegovina and southern Croatia have the highest levels in all of Europe moreover the World >70%.

Arne
Wednesday, May 19th, 2010, 05:11 PM
This is a much belated response but anyhow here goes;

Haplogroup " I " has many subclades, but if you are talking about generic " I " then Bosina Herzegovina and southern Croatia have the highest levels in all of Europe moreover the World >70%.

Yes - but HG I2 not I1 - lil`different between the southern branch, which was a part of the north when they conquered europe from south to north, they just moved backwords to south.

Arne
Wednesday, May 19th, 2010, 05:12 PM
It may, but it is not necessary. Having the R1b haplotype means that your ancestors on your male linage are of West Paleo-European origin. Terms such as Celtic or Germanic are more meta-ethnic, cultural and linguistic than racial.

It is true that among people of Celtic heritage, the R1b haplotype is found at very high rates (80%-100%), but the R1b haplotype is also majoritary in most Germanic countries:
Germany ~45%
Bavaria ~50%
Denmark ~52%
The Netherlands ~45%
England ~60%
Iceland ~48%

It is only found at low rates in Norway (30%) and Sweden (23%), and as you can see not so low.

Zinnamongirl
Saturday, October 2nd, 2010, 01:02 AM
Judaism is a religion, and while presently it does not proselytize, it once vigorously did seek converts while undergoing its reformation attempts (hence Monotheist Judaism, fused with Paganism, Greco Roman Mythology such as Demigods (Jesus and Saints) = Christianity) and does welcome converts. Even if a family has been Jewish for centuries, it does not necessarily mean - that they are biologically / genetically Semitic.

Aside from that, when Jean Auel wrote her Earth Children series, it was hypnotized that Neanderthals could not speak or vocalize. That has since been disproved. Science is based on Hypothesis. When I was a girl humanity was said to be only about 10,000 - 20,000 years old.

The earth was considered flat once, and Columbus discovered it was round, as well as being credited for discovering there is a rest of the world. Well then, why are there Pyramids, Ziggurats, and similar structures predating his discoveries?

James Michener in "The Source" makes mention that the Israelites stormed into Israel and Canaan, and they were blood thirsty Barbarians, with blond hair and blue eyes, as they descended upon hapless villages, and slaughtered every living thing, prior to moving into a conquered city.

Michener in my opinion is very credible, because he was a historian. When he turned into a commercially successful author he employed a vast staff of historians and archaeologists, to do research on whatever topic he wrote about.

It could well be that we have the world turned upside down, as far as the human migration patterns are concerned. If I was a barbarian fleeing the ice age, I would be migrating to warmer climates, like places in India and Africa? As a matter of fact I know plenty of Germans, as well as Americans who spend all their vacations in sunny, and or tropical locations - today.

Not to mention the earth has shifted, continents have drifted and broken apart, and the people of today, are not necessarily the same people that inhabited certain lands - eons ago. Case in point, the Americas.

As for group J / Jasmine - that would predate Arabs (modern term) Judaism (the Israelites split into different tribes, and 10 are lost to history entirely) Christianity (Modern adopted Monotheism from the Jews, who borrowed it from the Egyptians) and Islam is a young nation as well. J is Moot, entirely irrelevant to the politics or geo riches of the area today. Just as moot as are all the other groups. Humanity is in constant flux and migration, driven by climate, and the need to survive, more than by Geography.

Besides it is a general concensus that all humanity climed out of the same primordial ooze someplace between India and Africa. Or wherever the sun and the environment was being the nicest, at that very pivotal moment.

If we as humans didn't mix it up, trade information and technology, we would have died out, let alone never evolved. As I see it, Monkeys have not gotten any smarter, or evolved at all in the same time span as humans.

We are; what we identify closest with, in our own life time, and belong where we are born. The world is shrinking, populations are exploding, the earth is shifting, resources are dwindling, continents are sinking, and the ring of fire is exploding. The human migration is far from over.

One thing is for sure, racists no matter who they are - tend to die out, and go extinct.




Remember, there are peoples of J Haplotype who are not Jewish and they are just as German as anyone. Many Jews are as well having been participants of the development of our wonderful nations.

All Europeans without exception have ancestors who lived in the Middle East within the last 12,000 years. Being a mix of Paleolithic ice age survivors and Neolithic agriculturalists who immigrated from the Middle East around 10,000 BC. Our heredity is about 80% ice age survivor and 20% agriculturalist. Divisions of "white" and "non-white" in Eurasia is political, not genetic.

Both components of our 80/20 mix are responsible for the development of Europe's culture and advances. Give credit where it is due.

Melisande
Friday, March 18th, 2011, 08:50 PM
I like Michener a great deal, as well, but he wrote well before molecular genetic studies were published.

And blue eyes have been around for less time than was thought, when he was writing. 6000-8000BP is the current estimate.

Current blue-eyed Jews are less likely to share the Y-chromosome markers that link Jewish males to a common male ancestor (who is also the common male ancestor of Arabs, just as the Bible states). Naturally, there is quite a wide variety of genetic material in contemporary Jews living in Israel, but the fact remains that it is highly unlikely that the people who demolished Canaan were blue-eyed and blonde-haired.

Although, if true, that would be some fast-moving and definitely hellbent-on-conquest sort of people, moving more rapidly southward than any other blue-eyed population yet studied.

Sasa
Wednesday, November 9th, 2016, 02:59 AM
Your thoughts on this map. Is it accurate?

http://68.media.tumblr.com/d1270c65b2f07f345fb3b33e89a055e8/tumblr_nbwhzcB7711rasnq9o1_1280.jpg

Nordlander
Thursday, December 22nd, 2016, 03:34 AM
I just want to say it is nice to see this forum back . I had my Haplagroup DNA done recently to find I am about 85% Scandinavian mostly I1a1 P109 and a couple others similar . I wonder how many others have this .

The Horned God
Thursday, December 22nd, 2016, 01:15 PM
Your thoughts on this map. Is it accurate?


It's probably roughly accurate but it doesn't tell the whole story. For instance Iceland is about half Celtic, but the Celtic signature is mostly on female side so it wouldn't show up on the Y haplogroup. Y-dna only passes down along the male line. The may be other parts of Europe that are similar to Iceland in that respect, probably England for one.

Bernhard
Thursday, December 22nd, 2016, 03:17 PM
Haplogroups and ethno-cultural identities have never completely coincided. Until we find proof that they did, these maps are always inaccurate. Misleading even. Claiming that a certain area is Germanic or Celtic based on haplogroups is always dependent on another factor, namely what your historical point of reference is. Iceland for example would be Celto-Germanic, genetically speaking, because the genetics point to an influx of people from areas known to have been Germanic and Celtic at the time the influx occurred. But the Germanicness and Celticness of these areas is established by its culture and linguistics, not its haplogroups. Haplogroups therefor help to establish historical migration patterns, but to create a map based on haplogroups and claim that it shows the ethno-cultural make-up of the people is wrong.