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View Full Version : Typical Atlanto-Mediterranids?



Glenlivet
Saturday, November 26th, 2005, 02:02 AM
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2004/01/08/images/LANGFLD.jpeghttp://www.raithroversfc.com/images/photos/FP_Langfield_0304_Head.JPGhttp://www.scotprem.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/12/db/0,,10002~580370,00.jpg

Look at the shape of his eyes and read the quote below by Coon on the Long Barrow skulls.

"The face is of medium length and of moderate width; the orbits are of medium dimensions, and in many instances slope downward and outward, as if the confines of the face were too narrow for them."

http://www.snpa.skadi.net/chapter-IV10.htm

I think Coon was on to something there.

Gareth knows that I have described this trait before among Nord-Atlantids, but I probably really meant Atlanto-Mediterranids and how they may in that sense have similar eye shape.

Agrippa
Saturday, November 26th, 2005, 02:14 AM
He is Atlantomediterranid-Atlantid, thats for sure, but something goes in a rather Nordid direction in his face, a typical Atlantomediterranid would look slightly different in my opinion, though he is pred. Atlantomediterranid.

Glenlivet
Saturday, November 26th, 2005, 02:21 AM
I am not sure such eyes are unique in Atlanto-Mediterranids but they are quite common among them. I observed it in the Merseyside region. Nordids have sometimes been described having the same eye shape. I wonder if it goes back to the same origin. Lundman (1988) also wrote on narrow eye aperture among a population along the Rhine, who might be predominantly but an Atlanto-Mediterranid element is also found there (I do not remember now if am getting the last statement from VV Bunak or Henry Field).

"The bony orbit of the eye is rather high, and the eye normally quite wide open, with the upper lid reaching down over the upper quadrant of the iris, and the lower lid touching its rim. The eye slits themselves are horizontal, and are often partially covered, especially in old age, by a fold which hangs from the outer corner of the upper orbit."

http://www.cograce.org/literature/racesofeurope/chapter-IX4.htm

Do you think that is a description of the same shape?


He is Atlantomediterranid-Atlantid, thats for sure, but something goes in a rather Nordid direction in his face, a typical Atlantomediterranid would look slightly different in my opinion, though he is pred. Atlantomediterranid.

Agrippa
Saturday, November 26th, 2005, 02:39 AM
It would be interesting to prove the existence of similar eye forms in Eastnordids, I dont think that it is that common under them.
I think its a Western Europid "Atlantid" trait going from Western Skandonordids to Westmediterranids - but especially Atlantomediterranids.

Oswiu
Wednesday, February 8th, 2006, 12:47 AM
I am not sure such eyes are unique in Atlanto-Mediterranids but they are quite common among them. I observed it in the Merseyside region.
Aye, I second that, from here in Manchester, further up the Mersey basin. It's a rather common sort of look round here, and as far as I know amongst local stock [i.e. not Irish or from distant regions of Britain]. One man I know with it is surnamed Derbyshire.

Rhydderch
Friday, May 5th, 2006, 03:17 PM
I have noticed a narrow eye aperture on Atlanto-Mediterranids. If I remember him accurately, the tennis player Ivanesovic has eyes and a nasal tip which are typical of this type.

From my observation, it seems these traits tend to be associated with a low vault and very sloping forehead.

Agrippa
Friday, May 5th, 2006, 05:30 PM
Ivanisevic is pred. Dinarid.

Nicola_Canadian
Friday, May 5th, 2006, 07:39 PM
It would be interesting to prove the existence of similar eye forms in Eastnordids, I dont think that it is that common under them.
I think its a Western Europid "Atlantid" trait going from Western Skandonordids to Westmediterranids - but especially Atlantomediterranids.

I have never seen such eyes in North-Eastern Europe neither among East-Nordids nor among Baltids nor even North Pontids... Imho it is very common in the Western Europe only - especially France, England and Spain...

BTW, this pic imho shows some Dinaroid admix -

http://www.raithroversfc.com/images/photos/FP_Langfield_0304_Head.JPG

Waarnemer
Friday, May 5th, 2006, 10:13 PM
I have never seen such eyes in North-Eastern Europe neither among East-Nordids nor among Baltids nor even North Pontids... Imho it is very common in the Western Europe only - especially France, England and Spain...

BTW, this pic imho shows some Dinaroid admix -

http://www.raithroversfc.com/images/photos/FP_Langfield_0304_Head.JPG
Nothing dinarid influence.

And east-nordid is non important, since the person who coined the term; lundman himself thought this type to be almost completely disappeared. Basically he only includes three - imo a dubious interpretation - nordid subraces, the faelish, the north-atlantid and the scandonordid.

Thruthheim
Friday, May 5th, 2006, 10:27 PM
I have never seen such eyes in North-Eastern Europe neither among East-Nordids nor among Baltids nor even North Pontids... Imho it is very common in the Western Europe only - especially France, England and Spain...

BTW, this pic imho shows some Dinaroid admix -

http://www.raithroversfc.com/images/photos/FP_Langfield_0304_Head.JPG

England? I live here, never seen them at all.

Waarnemer
Friday, May 5th, 2006, 11:28 PM
England? I live here, never seen them at all.
http://scotlandtoday.scottishtv.co.uk/content/mediaassets/images/sutton.jpg

Chris Sutton, english and nord-atlantid

http://scotlandtoday.scottishtv.co.uk/content/mediaassets/images/hugh-grant.jpg

http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/3851/hughgrantwallpaperuk1b5vp.th.jpg (http://img478.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hughgrantwallpaperuk1b5vp.j pg)

http://x1.putfile.com/8/21608535722.jpg

Hugh Grant, english and a nord-atlantid imo

http://www.michellerowen.com/blog/images/jamesd.jpg

James Denton, american - but basically the same type/specialization as can be seen in england

http://www.anl.org.uk/images/who/who-Griffin.jpg

Nick Griffin, english - nord-atlantid

http://www.born-today.com/Today/pix/moore_r.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/moorewebsite/galeria/s01.jpg

Roger Moore - english - nord-atlantid?/nordid


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/Shipman.jpg

Harold Shipman - english

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/64/88658_The_Beatles_John_Lennon_legjobb_k% C3%A9pe.jpg

Lennon, english

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/59/PDRingoStarr.jpg

Ringo Starr, english and nord-atlantid?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Gem_Archer.jpg

Gem Archer, english? - AM/nord-atlantid/(keltic?)

http://www.altmanphoto.com/Bill.W.jpeg

http://www.iorr.org/bill/bill2.jpg

Bill Wyman - english - AM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/Stanley_baldwin.jpg

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t043/T043961A.jsm

Stanley Baldwin - english

etc..

Renwein
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 12:00 AM
John Lennon!!

is not english.

please.

how offensive. :|


Not all those guys have 'those eyes' anyway. However, I have seen them several times 'in real life'.

Thruthheim
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 12:06 AM
I can see the likeness between him and Nick Griffin, thats about it, mainly because both of them have wonky eyes, as if they were diagonally facing.

Waarnemer
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 12:07 AM
John Lennon!!

is not english.

please.

how offensive. :|


Not all those guys have 'those eyes' anyway. However, I have seen them several times 'in real life'.

Nothing offensive about that, but indeed he isn't english. And the don't have those eyes in the extreme, but the tendency is clearly present.



, I have seen them several times 'in real life'
Who cares? Point is most of them are in the same racial category. Not a surprise really, since there exists no real distinction between AM - nordatlantid and iron age nordids in the (north)west.

Rhydderch
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 02:01 AM
Ivanisevic is pred. Dinarid.He may well be partially Dinarid, but he also has Atlanto-Mediterranid mixture. He doesn't have the prominent nose, the high orbits with arching eyebrows, nor the shallow, prominent chin which characterise Dinarids.

However, I wasn't meaning to say he's predominantly Atlanto-med either (Ivanisevic, that's more like it; I thought my spelling didn't look quite right :) )

Renwein
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 02:07 AM
Nothing offensive about that that depends on your outlook. ;)



who cares?

well, you cared enough to trawl up all those pictures, to prove they were there. (well, some of them). So why the attitude now? :)

for clarity : I'm talking about the heavy eyes exactly like (and sometimes more extreme still) in the first picture on the thread, rather then approximates. since you were trying to show that there is a common tendancy towards that shape (in reply to someone who said he'd never seen it), *you* should care. :)

Waarnemer
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 02:14 AM
that depends on your outlook. ;)
no, perhaps on your narrow-mindedness



well, you cared enough to trawl up all those pictures, to prove they were there. (well, some of them). So why the attitude now? :)
The point is, that it doesn't matter at all whether you've seen some of them in real life



*you* should care. :)

well, i don't.

Waarnemer
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 02:28 AM
to prove they were there. (well, some of them)
please could you clarify on which one you don't agree?

Thruthheim
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 02:38 AM
http://www.vg.no/sport/fotball/bilder/spillere/2/256a.jpg
http://www.nndb.com/people/674/000089407/schroeder-sm.jpg[/URL]
http://www.tinthethao.com.vn/images/images490065_RonaldKoeman_s.jpg

What about these men, a Norwegian, a German and a Dutchman? Don't they have the same eye fold?
[URL="http://www.vg.no/sport/fotball/bilder/spillere/2/256a.jpg"] (http://www.nndb.com/people/674/000089407/schroeder-sm.jpg)

Agrippa
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 02:42 AM
He may well be partially Dinarid, but he also has Atlanto-Mediterranid mixture. He doesn't have the prominent nose, the high orbits with arching eyebrows, nor the shallow, prominent chin which characterise Dinarids.

However, I wasn't meaning to say he's predominantly Atlanto-med either (Ivanisevic, that's more like it; I thought my spelling didn't look quite right :) )

He is a Dinarid, just a more robust, more Cromagnoid influenced one or better a Dinarised Cromagnoid, robust Dinarid:
http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/18/250px-Goran.jpghttp://i.eurosport.com/2006/01/03/236301-710200-317-238.jpg

Typical picture:
http://www.atptennis.com/championstour/images/150x200/ivanisevic2.jpg

There are more extreme Dinarids around, but he is at least pred. Dinarid, at least in my opinion. Seems to be brachycephalic.

Rhydderch
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 03:18 AM
He is a Dinarid, just a more robust, more Cromagnoid influenced one or better a Dinarised Cromagnoid, robust Dinarid:
http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/18/250px-Goran.jpghttp://i.eurosport.com/2006/01/03/236301-710200-317-238.jpg

Typical picture:
http://www.atptennis.com/championstour/images/150x200/ivanisevic2.jpg

There are more extreme Dinarids around, but he is at least pred. Dinarid, at least in my opinion. Seems to be brachycephalic.Yes, actually I see more Dinarid in these pictures. Still, I think there is an Atlanto-med. component; the eye colouring and shape, for example, and some aspects of the nose, narrow and bony, but without prominence. There are influences in other respects too, but harder to describe, because it's only partial.

Rhydderch
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 03:32 AM
http://www.vg.no/sport/fotball/bilder/spillere/2/256a.jpg
http://www.nndb.com/people/674/000089407/schroeder-sm.jpg
http://www.tinthethao.com.vn/images/images490065_RonaldKoeman_s.jpg

What about these men, a Norwegian, a German and a Dutchman? Don't they have the same eye fold?
As Glenlivet mentioned at the start of this thread, Coon says it's a characteristic of the "classic nordic" type.

Is this the kind of eyefold you haven't seen in England?

Thruthheim
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 03:55 AM
As Glenlivet mentioned at the start of this thread, Coon says it's a characteristic of the "classic nordic" type.

Is this the kind of eyefold you haven't seen in England?

I think it's characteristic of the examples posted by Waarnemer.
But with regard to the Atlantid man(thread subject), then no, His maybe an extreme form, but his look unusual to me. Not something i am familiar with, as it's certainly a distinctive trait.

Rhydderch
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 04:23 AM
I think it's characteristic of the examples posted by Waarnemer.Yes, probably. Atlanto-meds often have a narrow eye aperture, but that sort of fold doesn't seem to be a feature of them in unmixed form. It could be due to a less common genetic combination with Brunn; this type tends to have a more than usual layer of fat around the eyes, and perhaps in combination with the former, this eyefold can result.

As far as I can tell, the North-atlantid seems to be a mixture of these two types.

And then of course there's the Nordic type with it too.


But with regard to the Atlantid man(thread subject), then no, His maybe an extreme form, but his look unusual to me. Not something i am familiar with, as it's certainly a distinctive trait.I agree, it seems to be an exaggeration of the form.

Nicola_Canadian
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 07:03 AM
Nothing dinarid influence.

And east-nordid is non important, since the person who coined the term; lundman himself thought this type to be almost completely disappeared. Basically he only includes three - imo a dubious interpretation - nordid subraces, the faelish, the north-atlantid and the scandonordid.

I really doubt that Coon or Lundman traveled from one ethnic Russian village to another to establish if East-Nordid still exists or not... But we are alive if you like it or not... ;-)

However, the topic is different - the topic is on the shape of the eyes. Notice that inner corners are placed higher than the outer ones... You can believe in existence of whatever racial type or not, but you won't find any examples of such eyes in abundance in North-Eastern Europe...

Nicola_Canadian
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 07:11 AM
I suppose these two fellows have very different eye shapes... One has inner corners pretty much at the same level as the outer ones while the other has eyes with inner corners placed higher than outer ones... Compare yourselves...

http://www.vg.no/sport/fotball/bilder/spillere/2/256a.jpghttp://www.raithroversfc.com/images/photos/FP_Langfield_0304_Head.JPG

fms panzerfaust
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 07:22 AM
The second guy (with yellow clothes) is not a mixture of alpinid and mediterranean?

Oswiu
Monday, May 8th, 2006, 01:34 PM
But with regard to the Atlantid man(thread subject), then no, His maybe an extreme form, but his look unusual to me. Not something i am familiar with, as it's certainly a distinctive trait.
Like I said at the beginning of the thread, it's quite common in the north west of England.

Väring
Friday, February 2nd, 2007, 10:18 AM
http://www.sternwelten.at/bild/anthonyperkins.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Normanbates.jpg/180px-Normanbates.jpg

http://www.movieforum.com/movies/titles/psycho/images/perkinsleigh.jpg

Huzar
Friday, February 2nd, 2007, 12:35 PM
Good actor.

I substantially agree on him being an example of ancient "dark" element of the british isles. Surely a pre-Germanic element. And, perhaps, pre-celtic.

Perhaps a celtic + pre-celtic fusion...............not predominant saxon genes in him.

lighnpeace
Friday, February 2nd, 2007, 03:12 PM
Reminds me of Pierce Brosnan!

joseanton
Friday, February 2nd, 2007, 11:48 PM
Atlanto-med with some adimxiture his head seems to be braquicefal to mesocefal

Theudiskaz
Saturday, February 3rd, 2007, 04:52 AM
Yes, Atlanto-Med with some Up admix. By the way I tried to find pictures of the actress who played his wife Mary Piersall in Fear Strikes Out. Her name is/was Norma Moore. Very Nordic and very attractive from what I remember. I'd like to get her classified if I could find some pics.

visigodo
Saturday, February 3rd, 2007, 08:42 PM
I would take him as Atlanto-Mediterranid or at least pred. Atlanto-Mediterranid. A very leptosomic variety. I am not sure about Cromagnid or Coon's UP admixture. He was very leptosomic, slim and with light body to show Cromagnoid admixture. The only doubt is if we can add Atlantid influences:

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1449/anthonyperkinsmv4.th.png (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anthonyperkinsmv4.png)

In my opinion he was dolychocephal with quite elongated and narrow face:

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/4894/anthonyperkinsbph0.th.png (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anthonyperkinsbph0.png) http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9603/tonyperkinsww2.th.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tonyperkinsww2.jpg) http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9094/perkinsleighth7.th.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=perkinsleighth7.jpg) http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1045/anthonyperkinscym2.png (http://imageshack.us)