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Agrippa
Thursday, November 10th, 2005, 03:08 AM
Negroid hair - Why Negroids have frizzletop, but Mongoloids in South East Asia and South America not

Frizzletop could be selected in extreme situation, in extreme heat. The main reasons why Mongolids dont have it that they dont live in such situations long enough, that they used cultural and physical improvements to stand the heat and that frizzy hair is, especially if very short, what it usually is (just look at pure fil fil haired Khoisanids or frizzy haired Sudanids), sexually rather unattractive.

So its similar to extremely short extremities - f.e. extreme cold environment (fantasy numbers):
sexual disadvantage -2, performance d-a -1, but advantage because of better temperature control + 2 and better resistance against peripheral frostbites + 2 as well = selective win.

For frizzletop the advantage is that shorter hair is generally better for getting rid of heat, the frizzy hair produces a real air cushion (similar to a good hat or tropical helmet f.e.), and air is a bad heat conductor (worse than thick hair). Furthermore if an individual transpires, this air cushion is further cooled better than with Europid or Mongolid hair.

So this was an adaptation to extreme heat before alternative measures of protection were invented by the people in question. Just look at typical South East Asian headgears, Berber and Arab ones, European sun helmets, they all have a similar function and work even better.

But as I said, frizzletop is rather unattractive, especially the short one, a serious disadvantage for females and males as long as a bald head is no fashion - you can see how Negroid women try to compensate with perukes and artificial hair or special cuts - especially those with this extreme frizzletop, short and like a pillow - out of longer you can form artifical hair fashion (compare with Tutsi hair cut f.e. which have no short frizzletop, same with most Aethiopids).

So like many Negrid features, frizzletop can be advantageous in a specific given situation (rather open area, extreme heat, no developed headgear - danger of overheating of the brain - if the brain is bigger (like it was the case in Hominisation), heat is a serious enemy, it needs much energy anyway, but then overheating is another problem, thats why humans transpire - lost their hair protection most likely too because of that. Negrids even went a step further in adaptation to their extreme environment.
But it gives no advantage, just the (aesthetical and even temperature in cold environment) disadvantage, just made for hot areas in situations like above.

Map for the distribution of the typical hair forms (from Saller, after Struck):
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=44333&stc=1&d=1131588088

Hair form variants (from Saller, after Martin):
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=44334&stc=1&d=1131588132

Climatic selection (from Schwidetzky, after Biasutti) of dark pigmentation, broad noses and frizzletop:
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=44335&stc=1&d=1131588174

As important is the fact that the straight Asian hair is a specialisation and it seems that it is much more difficult and less likely to develop frizzy hair after such specialisation in which most genes for frizzy hair, which might have been present in the old stratum, are lost and the pure variant for straight hair is the rule.
In my opinion, though thats just a personal view, straight hair is more robust and doesnt need so much care and is better in extreme cold, but still looks rather healthy.

As for the Indianids of the tropics, well, they used another way, they bacame more thick-set piknomorphic and good transpirators. There was enough water and this tendency was already present in the Asian populations.
They never were sprint hunters and fishers on open lake regions like the Negrids, which couldnt use this way of adapting (rather paedomorphic-pyknomorphic) with the exception of the Bambutids which combined both and the Palaenegrids being intermediate.

The typical Negrid (Sudanid) is no forest type but for the open Savannah and lake regions in my opinion.

This really dark leather skin is not typical for all Negrids, but mainly for Nilotids and some Sudanid groups. Now the interesting thing is, a hybrid of Nilotid-Europid turns out to be less Negroid and lighter than f.e. a Sudanit hybrid most of the time.

This would speak for what already Eickstedt said, that though they are the darkest race of the planet they are not fully typical Negrids with a small amount of Europid genes-tendency oftentimes.
Though there are extreme types going in a typical Negrid direction under the Nilotids as well.
This Nilotid (a) has longer hair, the Palaenegrid man (b) medium for Negrids, whereas the Nilotid woman (c) has extremely frizzy hair (rather "fil fil") though her other features (prognathy, chin, breasts, body type etc.) are not extremely Negrid like in many Nilotids.
Both Nilotid pictures are from Bakers "Race", the Palaenegrid from Georg Glowatzkis "Die Rassen des Menschen":
a)
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=44337&stc=1&d=1131588433
b)
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=44336&stc=1&d=1131588433
c)
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=44338&stc=1&d=1131588433

Agrippa
Thursday, November 10th, 2005, 03:13 AM
Obviously there is individual variation, but the pure-typical Negrids (all Negrid types) have short frizzletop - thats the principle I explained, too long hair wouldnt be helpful for the "sun helmet" and transpiration function.

There is a range from "fil fil" (very short peppercorn hair) to medium short frizzletop in most Negrid groups with hairs getting on average longer from the South to the North (where non-SSA admixture increases, especially in the Western and particulary Eastern fringes) until untypical lengths are reached which allow the typical "70's Afro look" (Negrid-Europid mixtures and Aethiopid).

"fil fil", "peppercorn hair":
http://www.mozaik.info.hu/mozaweb/Ver/Kep/p2213_9.jpg
Sanid example:
http://www.spacedaily.com/images/kalahari-bushman-bg.jpg

Short Negrid frizzletop (Zulus, Kafrid):
http://www.drakensberg-tourism.com/image-files/zulu-women.jpg

Medium for pure Negrid (Hutus, Kafrid):
http://www.painetworks.com/photos/ha/ha1306.JPG

Already longer for Negrids (Nigeria, Sudanid), the typical hair fashion which is possible naturally for Negrids:
http://www.adireafricantextiles.com/imagesres/ibeji2.JPG
http://www.scottcamazine.com/personal/Nigeria/nigeriaNonclinical/images/women_gif.jpg

Long but still frizzy hair of mixed ones (Beni Amer-Bedja - this individual is already more Europid than Negrid):
http://www.erythree.com/postal/beniA.jpg

QuietWind
Thursday, November 10th, 2005, 05:14 AM
I know your thread deals mainly with negroid hair, but can you briefly explain the other types shown in the chart and map? I don't read German, so the titles mean nothing to me. I can see by looking at the chart and map that "g-l" appear to be clearly negroid types found in Africa, "a" appears to be found throughout Asia and in parts of Europe, etc. Can you explain all these types better, the places where they are found, and possibly what racial types they may be associated with?

Agrippa
Thursday, November 10th, 2005, 02:18 PM
I just translate the terms of the hair form picture, because it explains the hair form distribution map as well, there might be better translations though:

a) straff = tense hair (mostly Mongolid)
b) schlicht = simple hair (Europid) a+b = straight
c) flachwellig = plain wavy (Europid) a+b+c = lissotrich

d) weitwellig = wide wavy
e) engwellig = tight wavy
f) lockig = curly d+e+f = kymatotrich (common in Europid individuals, Weddoids and Australoids)

g) gekräuselt = frizzy
h) locker kraus = loose frizzy
i) dicht kraus = dense frizzy
k) fil fil = fil fil, peppercorn hair
l) spiralig = spiral hair g-l = ulotrich (Negroids, Negritids, Melanesids, Khoisanids etc.)

Something from the internet:


Ethnic differences

Each individual is unique and hair production rate, size, and shape differs for everyone but in general there are some differences in the nature of hair fiber for people of different ethnic backgrounds.

Asian hair is on average the thickest and most coarse hair compared to Caucasian and African American hair. It is almost always straight and circular in cross section. The density of Asian hair on the scalp (follicles per unit area of skin) is less than that typically observed in Caucasians The density of hair follicles in African Americans is also lower than for Caucasians on average. At the lowest end of the spectrum the density of Asian may be just 90,000 scalp follicles and rarely gets above 120,000 scalp follicles.

Caucasian hair can be quite variable in its presentation with straight, wavy or curly hair. The fiber can be circular or oval in cross section and is on average thinner than Asian hair. Hair follicle density varies and density can be approximately related to hair color. Red haired people have the least dense scalp hair growth of Caucasians, blonds the most dense and brown haired people somewhere in the middle. Denstiy can range from 100,000-150,000 scalp hair follicles African American hair is frequently tightly coiled, or spiral hair. In cross section it is elliptical or almost flat and ribbon-like in some cases. This means that there is more strength and rigidity to the fiber across the area of greatest cross section but the hair is much more pliable across the narrow section. This results in the curls of hair all naturally flexing and coiling along the ribbon. There is little or no coiling from side to side. The sclap hair density is pretty much the same as that seen in Caucasians.

http://www.keratin.com/aa/aa002.shtml

Euclides
Sunday, November 20th, 2005, 08:48 PM
But why caucasoids also have frizzle hair?...

cosmocreator
Monday, November 21st, 2005, 09:06 AM
But why caucasoids also have frizzle hair?...

Because they are part Negro from mixing thousands of years ago. In addition to some southern Europeans, Irish Brunns can have frizzy hair. I think it originates from Negro mixture from long ago.

cosmocreator
Monday, November 21st, 2005, 09:35 AM
I'd edit my previous post but I'm still moderated. Here's what caused me to think that Brunns have an ancient, minor Negro origin. I see similarities between these especially the first two photo of each link:

http://img277.echo.cx/img277/7168/bruennsurvivorsinscandinaviapl.th.jpg
http://img277.echo.cx/img277/7913/upperpalaeolithicsurvivalsinir.th.jpg
http://www.michaelstevenson.com/contemporary/exhibitions/hugo/images/item30.jpg

Agrippa
Monday, November 21st, 2005, 03:42 PM
But why caucasoids also have frizzle hair?...

That was a Roman fashion, the pictured individuals have no frizzletop, but at best naturally wavy to curly hair, whats, as I said, not that uncommon in certain Europid populations. I thought about it being associated with ancient Cromagnid variants more than with others, but thats pure speculation, it is, in any way, no sign of direct Negroid admixture. Since this trait is more common in Protoeuropid and primitive groups (Weddoid, Australoid), the correlation to very ancient European (Cromagnid and original Capellid) populations can be there, but other ("more modern") Europids might have just lower percentages. That could be proven if there is a clear correlation in NW-Europe between red hair (old Cromagnid trait as well rather) and wavy to curly hair. I dont know such studies unfortunately...


Individual variation without admixture occurs too, because finally, what is in Europid populations just a very small minority, and never as extreme (fil fil and short) was being selected in Negroids. Natural variation - in Europe frizzy hair was not advantageous = not positively selected, so the numbers are very low and just a small number of people has it, contrary is true for Negroids, which went through a selective filter which made this rare mutation dominant...

Weg
Monday, November 21st, 2005, 04:21 PM
Because they are part Negro from mixing thousands of years ago. In addition to some southern Europeans, Irish Brunns can have frizzy hair. I think it originates from Negro mixture from long ago.
Yeah, you're right. For instance, if Redheads can have naturally frizzy hair, that's because of Negro mixture. I can clearly see the negroid features of Simply Red (though in a more curly way than frizzy). Beside, he stroke me as partly negroid the first time I saw him.

http://www.tursa.franken.de/pics/roll_simplyred5.jpghttp://www.armyofmom.com/simply%20red.jpg

http://www.kulichki.com/cddisk/simplred/menwomen.jpg

dgirlc
Tuesday, April 19th, 2011, 01:43 AM
I wonder if some sort of evolutionary process will make the ones who are not in africa and in more suitable climates have hair that isn't like this, you'd think that it eventually would..

Sigurd
Tuesday, April 19th, 2011, 11:26 AM
That was a Roman fashion, the pictured individuals have no frizzletop,

I have to correct you slightly, it was more of a Greek than Roman fashion, that caught onto the Roman Empire; as a general rule: The later the emperor, the more prone he is to wear his hair as pictured, and the more prone he is to wear a relatively long beard.

Moderate hair in males is however indeed a Roman fashion ideal, it was common for a free and noble man to have hair of moderate length, completely trimmed hair was usually exclusive to the soldier and the slave, of course; certainly however in earlier busts, such as that of Caeaar


but at best naturally wavy to curly hair, whats, as I said, not that uncommon in certain Europid populations.

Or indeed not uncommon in any Europid population, with an increasing tendency in CM types to have curly hair. For instance, I would find it difficult to see anything else but a Borreby in Jon Schaffer or Yngwie Malmsteen, the former has wavy hari, the latter wavy to curly hair.

http://www.bayareametalscene.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/schaffer.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4cAYD38O7QY/TZMnfXB6sjI/AAAAAAAAA98/9yMXU6Zo-3Y/s640/yngwie-malmsteen-2.jpg

My own, also of a Borreby quality, is somewhere in between those two in terms of texture, closer to Schaffer's in texture but used to be closer to Malmsteen's when shorter. :)