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Agrippa
Saturday, October 29th, 2005, 04:52 PM
Racial types of South Asia


Modern Methods.
For the 1931 census measurements were taken on persons belonging to at least 51 racial groups from all parts of India on 18 different characters. Besides these a large number of observations were recorded including tints of skin, eye and hair colours. For a satisfactory study of the resemblance or difference of the physical characters of two races a co-efficient known as the Co-efficient of Racial Likeness (C.R.L.) has been suggested which takes into account not only the mean characters and their standard deviations but also the numbers of the individuals and characters measured. It should not, however, be forgotten that though the method of the Co-efficient of Racial Likeness is without doubt the best available criterion of racial divergence, it is nevertheless not an absolute test but only a rough measure of how far on the given data significant resemblance or divergence can be asserted. In assigning an equal value to every one of the characters, it furthermore neglects the differences in the relative biological significance of the various characters as measures of racial difference. Other factors such as the systematic observations of non-measurable characters, should therefore be duly considered. ~Gracilindid/basic Indid in v. Eickstedts terms:

Racial Element A.In the racial composition of the peoples of India we can discern; (A), a short statured long headed element with high cranial vault but faintly marked supra-orbital ridges and broad, short but ortho-gnathous face, with medium lips. The nose is prominent and long but the alae moderately spread out, giving a mesorrhine index. The colour of the skin varies from light brown in the Telugu Brahmin to a dark tawny brown among the Kalla, but the eye colour is dark brown and colour of the hair is usually black. The latter is in general straight but is inclined to waviness and the amount is moderate both on the face and body. It is found in its purest form among the Telugu Brahmins, but the Kallas of Southern Tamil country and the Illuvas of Cochin also furnish good examples. This type forms the predominant element in the greater part of the lower stratum of the population of Northern India, including to some extent the Punjab, where among the Chubra and Chamar is a small-headed, broad-nosed element which appears to be closely related to the Mediterranean stock of Europe. Indobrachid:

Racial Element B.
On this basic substratum there appears to have superimposed:—

In the western littoral and Bengal (B) a brachycephalic element of medium stature with flattened occiput but having also high head and not infrequently receding forehead. Like the former the face is short and orthognathous but somewhat broader. The nose is long and quite often arched and convex. The skin colour varies from a pale white to light brown among the Nagas Brahmin, to tawny brown among the Kannada non-Brahmins. The colour of the eye is usually dark brown but a small per cent shows light eyes. The hair colour is black with a small proportion showing a dark brown tint. The hair is generally straight and the pilous system well developed. The Nagar Brahmin of Guzrat, the Kayastha of Bengal and the Kannada non-Brahmin are representatives of this type. Nordindid:

And in Northern India:—
Racial Element C.
(C) Another long-headed strain with comparatively lower but longer head and tall stature and possessing a long face and prominent narrow long nose. It its purest form it is found in the North-west Himalayan tribes like the Kaffirs and the Pathan where the skin colour is predominantly of a rosy white tint and an appreciable number have grey-blue eyes and chestnut hair. In the plains of Northern India, among the Sikhs of the Punjab and the Brahmin of the U.P. the skin colour changes to a light transparent brown. Here also there is a small proportion of people having light eyes and brownish hair. Among this type also the hair is usually straight and the pilous system well developed.

Distinction Between A And C.
The two long-headed strains (A) and (C) show some similarity in the shape of the head. Significant differences are, however, visible not only in stature, in the absolute length and height of the cranial vault, but also in the proportions and form of the face and nose. These together with the differences in the integumentary colours mark out the long-headed people of Southern, from those of Northern India. If long and high-headedness are associated with dark hair and eyes and are the characteristics of a very early type of modern man, the type here designated as (A) must be a south-eastward drift of this race, which reached India in very early times. The other long-headed type, as history would seem to suggest, belonged to a later drift from the north-west though both may have been evolved of a common ancestral stock like the Cromagnon or some pre-Cromagnon race but were differentiated very rarely.
Weddid:

Racial Element D.
In addition to these three types, the aboriginal population of India discloses – (D) a short and moderately high-headed strain with very often strongly marked brow ridges, broad short face, the mouth slightly inclined forwards and small flat nose with the alae extended. The hair varies from wavy to curliness and the skin is of a shade of dark chocolate brown approaching black. This type is predominant among the aboriginal tribes of Central and Southern India, but seems also to have entered in a considerable degree in the lower stratum of the Indian population. This type is closely allied to the Veddas of Ceylon, the Toalas of Celebes, and the Sakais of the Malay Peninsula. A more primitive form of this type is seen among the aborigines of Australia, among whom some of its traits are found in an intensified form. The Bhils of the Vindhya and the Chenchus of the Farhabad Hills may be regarded as representatives of this type. ~Negritid:

Racial Element E.
It seems probable that at a very early time this type displaced and partially intermixed with:— (E) a dark pigmy strain having spirally curved hair, remnants of which are still found among the Kadars and the Pulayans of the Perambucullan Hills but which is mostly submerged in India at the present time. Hutton has drawn attention to the presence of the negrito type among the Angairti Nagas and examination of the large series of skulls brought back by the Triangular expedition has made it quite clear that it extends beyond the Assam frontiers into the trans-Namphuk area of Burma. The Andamanese are racially homogeneous and of distinct type, characterised by a dwarfish stature, black complexion and woolly hair who have survived as a result of isolation. Primitive Palaemongolid:

Racial Element F.The mongoloid racial strain does not appear to have entered in any considerable extent in the population of the mainlands of India. The true Mongol element as seen among the Uzbegs, still remains outside the Indian frontiers but all along the sub-Himalayan region of N.E. Kashmir to Bhutan:—

F: a brachycephalic mongoloid type, having, not improbably some affinities with the former, seems to have penetrated and constitutes to-day the main component of the population of these parts. The type that forms the dominant element in Burma is also brachycephalic but somewhat shorter in stature and having a short flat nose and a tendency to alveolar prognathism. It appears to exhibit certain affinities with the Siamese, the Malay and the Cochin Chinese. Progressive Palaemongolid:

Racial Element G.In Assam and Northern Burma there seems to have entered:—

G: a second Mongoloid strain characterised by medium stature, longish head and medium nose, but exhibiting like (F) the typical Mongoloid characteristics of the face and eye. This element constitutes the major strain in the population of the hills and not inconsiderably of that of the Brahmaputra Valley. The Angami Nagas may be considered to be the best representatives of this type but the Mikir-Bodo group also furnishes a good example. (India. 1931. I. iii. p.v.sqq). Link and more (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.athe lstane.co.uk%2Ftchodson%2Find_ethn%2Find _ethn.htm%23q024)

Indid according to Glowatzki:
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/75/indidgypsy8vh.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg107.i mageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dindidgyp sy8vh.jpg)



Veddids according to Eickstedt:
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/322/veddid8ql.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg107.i mageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dveddid8q l.jpg)

"Indids" from a Russian book which printed Eickstedt's pictures. The Toda woman was classified as Nordindid in Knussmann's book "Vergleichende Biologie des Menschen".
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/525/indidnordindid5ur.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg83.im ageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dindidnord indid5ur.jpg)

The Nordindid type dominates under Sikhs:
http://www.5abi.com/vishesh/vishesh2004/dastar/sikh-france1_300.jpghttp://www.savrajsingh.com/archives/images/st-pats-good.jpg
http://www.livres-montagne.com/galerie/Sikh.jpg
Typical Sikh scholars, almost exclusively Nordindid:
http://www.searchsikhism.com/gal3.html (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sear chsikhism.com%2Fgal3.html)
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Images/0380.jpg
http://www.sikhnet.com/thesikhs/images/Old%20Sikh%20Soldiers%20Sitting.jpg
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20001217/1pun.gifhttp://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20031028/jk.jpg
http://www.sikhsentinel.com/sikhsentinel0206/sikhsoldier.jpg
http://gabbyattic.com/truepix/sikh.jpg
http://www.indienerlebnis.de/post/Menschen2/sikh3.jpg
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/08/27/snp7_gallery__550x431.jpg
http://www.sikhpioneers.org//images/smithsonian/large_smithsonian/sikh_heritage_shergill_0032_600x450.jpg

Classic Indobrachid man:
http://www.our-trips.com/chris-annette/india/c0001917_wp.jpg

Comparison of Nordindid with Indobrachid:
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20051117/cth%20%281%29.jpg

Gracilindid woman from Burma:
http://journalism.berkeley.edu/projects/burma/people_optimized/indian-woman-and-baby.jpg

Melanid Kaller woman, dark skin but note the more progressive and Europoid features in comparison to Weddids:
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/526/melanidekallerfem0jh.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg184.i mageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dmelanide kallerfem0jh.jpg)

Rather Gondid (Weddid) boy:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/5070/gondboy2zb.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg265.i mageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dgondboy2 zb.jpg)
Gondids are the standard Weddid form in India.

Now pictures from Egon Frhr. v. Eickstedt, Rassendynamik Ostasiens.

Comparison of a gracile Indid (l) with an Indobrachid (r):
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/98/indogracilebrachid2kw.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg280.i mageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dindograc ilebrachid2kw.jpg)

Scene with Indobrachid depictions from Indian art:
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/1365/indobrachidartscene9fs.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg280.i mageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dindobrac hidartscene9fs.jpg)

Mardia-Gond male:
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/1145/mardiagondmale0tl.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg280.i mageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dmardiago ndmale0tl.jpg)

Malid Panyer woman:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7233/malidpanyerfem3rg.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg265.i mageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dmalidpan yerfem3rg.jpg)
The Malids are a more Southern Weddid form with Negritid influences.

Racial map of India:
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/3773/indiaracial0nd.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg280.i mageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dindiarac ial0nd.jpg)

Comparison of languages and racial types - there is no real overlap especially in the Central and Southern regions and there is no "Dravidian race", the habitat, climate, rivers, potential for more intensive farming and animal husbandry are more important for the racial distribution than both language and North-South differences. The more progressive forms dominate the better developed areas, in which they expanded, whereas the rather primitive or infantile ones are mostly in areas of retreat like usual. F.e. almost the whole coastal line is Indid and Indomelanid:
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2374/indiaracialling8kq.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg118.i mageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dindiarac ialling8kq.jpg)

Compare with Ilse Schwidetzky, Rassen und Rassenbildung beim Menschen:

Comparison of a Sikh (Indid) and Panyer (Weddid) metrically:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5339/weddidindid3ch.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg266.i mageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dweddidin did3ch.jpg)

Comparison of the maps of Guha and v. Eickstedt [both generalised]:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1083/indischersubkontinent7ct.th.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg266.i mageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dindische rsubkontinent7ct.jpg)


More pictures:
Colored Pictures of the Europid Subraces (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=30446)

Thread about Sikhs which are mostly Nordindid:
The Racial Type of the Sikhs (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=37153)

Imperator X
Saturday, October 29th, 2005, 08:21 PM
I may sound like a fool here but is the GracilIndid from Alexander's men?

There is a pale tribe in Pakistan that dresses Macedonian and practices a form of Hellenic polytheism and claim descent from Alexander's men known as the Kalas.

The similarities between certain Indian cults, particularly certain Saivas and worshippers of Skanda/Murugan and the cult of Dionysus are striking.

Agrippa
Saturday, October 29th, 2005, 08:36 PM
Gracilindids are not like Mediterranids or Europeans in general, they are the original Europid farmer type of the region, strong especially in the fertile river valleys.
The group you mean is more Northern and not Gracilindid.

Agrippa
Tuesday, April 25th, 2006, 08:22 PM
I updated the thread after getting new material in a discussion on Dodona and because I scanned some images for better illustration.

Found examples for the rather progressive Palaemongolid type ("element G") in South Asia, images of the Angami Nagas:
http://www.anako.com/images/photos/nagaland/khonoma_1208.jpg

http://www.anako.com/html/photos/naga-3.html

http://www.tribalphoto.com/images/tribes/india_naga_angami/color/r1p2_1_angami%20.jpghttp://www.tribalphoto.com/images/tribes/india_naga_angami/color/r2p3_angami.jpghttp://www.tribalphoto.com/images/tribes/india_naga_angami/color/r2p1_angami.jpg

Willigut
Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 12:02 AM
Very good thread, it much clears racial constitution of India. Struck's world maps (http://www.snpa.skadi.net/charts.htm) can be also useful (from Günther's works (http://www.white-history.com/earlson/hfk/reoehchap6e.htm)). But I still don't quite understand what Melanids are? Indid-Weddid mixture?

Agrippa
Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 02:05 AM
Very good thread, it much clears racial constitution of India. Struck's world maps (http://www.snpa.skadi.net/charts.htm) can be also useful (from Günther's works (http://www.white-history.com/earlson/hfk/reoehchap6e.htm)). But I still don't quite understand what Melanids are? Indid-Weddid mixture?

They are the result of a combination of Europoids with more progressive Weddids. The main tribut to the local tropical conditions is pigmentation, whereas most other traits being relatively close to Gracilindids. Like Europoid Aethiopids which look like "painted" essentially Orientalid-Mediterranid-Armenoid people in East Africa.

Digitalseal
Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 02:40 AM
Does the Blue eyes among Nordindids mean Nordid influence?

Agrippa
Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 05:10 PM
Does the Blue eyes among Nordindids mean Nordid influence?

Well, it could mean, but it must not. However, would rather speak of Nordoid/Nordeuropid (including Cromagnid) influences in Nordindids. But in an individual it could be just a basic Nordindid variation, whereas in the population as such the relations to Iranid and Northern Europid variants are quite clear if looking at the Nordindid type.

Euclides
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 09:02 PM
I may sound like a fool here but is the GracilIndid from Alexander's men?.

Gracilindid are from the ''eastmediterranids''/neolithic ''corded'' agriculturalists.They were probably the third group to enter the Indian
subcontinent, many of them mixed with the natives ( negritos and wedoids ) in an ancient time.




The similarities between certain Indian cults, particularly certain Saivas and worshippers of Skanda/Murugan and the cult of Dionysus are striking.


Interesting observation.According with Alain Danielou in his book '' Shiva and Dyonisius '' this correlation between ancient cults in Crete (after absorved by indo-european Greeks ) and India has prehistorical neolithic origins, and also includes difusion of grapes and bulls.Neolithics dispersed along Europe, India , xinjiang, Norh Africa... so... ''coincidences'' are possible.

Agrippa
Tuesday, July 18th, 2006, 11:08 AM
You shouldnt call those groups "Corded" because the Corded people are a very specific Central European Nordoid form and neither all European and for sure not all non-European Caucasoid Neolihics were of the same type, even if one could see relations to Eastmediterranoid forms.

Euclides
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 02:09 PM
You shouldnt call those groups "Corded" because the Corded people are a very specific Central European Nordoid form and neither all European and for sure not all non-European Caucasoid Neolihics were of the same type, even if one could see relations to Eastmediterranoid forms.

I agree... '' corded '' isn´t a correct word to deffine this people, and it´s because I put '' ''...., but also ''europid farmers'' isn´t a good therm for them, because this people are not europeans neither europid, they are gracile neolithics, not related to cromanid types, that are the original europeans, in my point of view.

Agrippa
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 02:13 PM
Going after genetics the original Europeans were Cromagnoids and Aurignacoids which lived in Europe much longer already, though there was a significant influx of those Neolithics especially in South-Eastern Europe. However, the best way to describe them is simply Proto-Mediterranoid and Mediterranid depending on age, region and exact findings.

Euclides
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 02:58 PM
''Racial Element B.
On this basic substratum there appears to have superimposed:—

In the western littoral and Bengal (B) a brachycephalic element of medium stature with flattened occiput but having also high head and not infrequently receding forehead. Like the former the face is short and orthognathous but somewhat broader. The nose is long and quite often arched and convex. The skin colour varies from a pale white to light brown among the Nagas Brahmin, to tawny brown among the Kannada non-Brahmins. The colour of the eye is usually dark brown but a small per cent shows light eyes. The hair colour is black with a small proportion showing a dark brown tint. The hair is generally straight and the pilous system well developed. The Nagar Brahmin of Guzrat, the Kayastha of Bengal and the Kannada non-Brahmin are representatives of this type. ''


-------------------------------------------------------------

Racial element B is also knowed as '' Armenoid'' ...

Agrippa
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 03:06 PM
There are Armenoid forms in India but this element is Indobrachid, a form of its own though showing relations to the Armeno-Pamirid spectrum in more Northern areas and the strains here and there in Northern India.

Euclides
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 03:17 PM
Going after genetics the original Europeans were Cromagnoids and Aurignacoids which lived in Europe much longer already, though there was a significant influx of those Neolithics especially in South-Eastern Europe. However, the best way to describe them is simply Proto-Mediterranoid and Mediterranid depending on age, region and exact findings.


I think the therm mediterranid / mediterranoid is also inapropriated, because it can be favorable to create mistakes between west european mediterranids and this eastern types, that are ( or at least were ) two different groups.

Agrippa
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 03:26 PM
I think the therm mediterranid / mediterranoid is also inapropriated, because it can be favorable to create mistakes between west european mediterranids and this eastern types, that are ( or at least were ) two different groups.

Thats true, but most authors didnt used it for f.e. India, but Protomediterranoid is appropriate, because they were no fully developed Mediterranids yet but of largely the same stock as those coming to Europe - however, later in all the different Eurasian and North African areas the local variants evolved, the European ones into proper Mediterranids, partly even Nordid and Dinarid forms too (as an element in their constitution), those in Arabia into Arabids, India into the different Indid forms etc.
So Protomediterranoid is still a quite generalised category which still shows the basic relations of this early leptodolichomorphs which spread Neolithic and other cultures.

Mediterranoid is definitely justified because it doesnt imply such a direct relation and the similarities being just obvious. One has to know or explain the "handy terminology" first though:
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=5454

Fable
Friday, April 23rd, 2010, 12:28 AM
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/75/indidgypsy8vh.jpg (http://img107.imageshack.us/i/indidgypsy8vh.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

While this Gypsy seems more of a GracilIndid-Indobrachid intermediate, I'm pretty sure Gypsies were Weddoid or atlaeast Melanid when they left India. It wouldnt be wrong to say that this 'Indid' look of theirs is nothing but the by product of race mixing with Europeans over the years.
__________

So Agrippa, this is how the morphological relation goes, right?

NordIndid=Nordid/Atlantid/Pontid/East Med
GracilIndid=Gracile Mediterannid
Indobrachid=Alpinoid and CroMagnoid?

Agrippa
Friday, April 23rd, 2010, 10:16 AM
While this Gypsy seems more of a GracilIndid-Indobrachid intermediate, I'm pretty sure Gypsies were Weddoid or atlaeast Melanid when they left India. It wouldnt be wrong to say that this 'Indid' look of theirs is nothing but the by product of race mixing with Europeans over the years.

I'd assume that the original Roma came out of India with many variants, practically all of India and somehow got on their way especially Armenoid, some seem to have slight Mongoloid influences too here and there.

In Europe they obviously mixed with locals at times, resulting in more European like phenotypes. Yet there are huge differences between regions and family-clans. F.e. those of Slovakia, some of the lowest Gypsies of all, have Weddoid influences of significance, I even saw a village-population which was more Weddoid than anything else once.

They have Nordindid, Gracilindid, Indobrachid, Weddoid, Armenoid variants. From Europeans everything but mainly Dinarid, Alpinoid, Mediterranid from South Eastern Europe.


NordIndid=Nordid/Atlantid/Pontid/East Med
GracilIndid=Gracile Mediterannid
Indobrachid=Alpinoid and CroMagnoid?

Thats correct. Nordindid is closest to Iranid from all other Europid race forms.

Fable
Saturday, April 24th, 2010, 01:34 AM
Thank you for your affluent answer Agrippa. The reason I mentioned that is there are many theories being thrown around about how Romas/Sintis descend from the Jatts of Punjab and the Warrior/Rajput clans of Rajasthan.

The Romani are most likely descended from the Dom who are not Kshatriya or even Sudra but more tribals. They are travelling vagabonds who make baskets, ropes, juggle and play musical instruments for a living. Doesn't sound like activities that Kshatriya castes would do, now does it?

Further more Jatts and Rajputs were classified as a Martial race by the British and were acknowledged for their tall stature and robust features, even being taller than most of the British aristrocrats and colonials themselves. Coloured eyes/hair being relatively common even.

The British were so impressed by them that they tried to explain their features by finding an origin for them outside of India like Scythians and White Huns etc. Of course, they were just part of the Aryan Migrations into India.

The high caste Hindus such as the Jatts and Rajputs are predominantly NordIndid-robust IndoBrachid and are rather tall and well built. I find it implausible to connect them with Romas honestly.

The preferred professions, lifestyle and ethics of the Gypsies clearly reflect anything other than a Warrior origin.

And in this time and day we have something known as genetic testing to affirm or refute such claims.

All castes in India are very patriarchal in nature, so the paternal line is fiercely guarded and maintained. You are a certain caste only if your father was of that caste.

Gypsies carry H y-dna whereas Rajputs/Jatts carry J2 or R1a y-dna. The Jatt mutation, or any of those huey theories are useless to ponder upon when they have a totally different genome make up.

Balkan gypsies carry H ydna at 50% and M mtdna at 60%, and these are deemably Weddid/ Bengalid markers.

H peaks at 23% in South East India and M mt-dna makes up 60% of India's maternal lineage, alongside peaking at Bangladesh where it makes up 2/3rd of the maternal lineage. These regions are also the least Europoid/ most Weddoid in South Asia.

The funny thing is they cant even descend from the Outcastes/Dalits of North-West India, because even the dalits of Punjab are 45% R1a1a and partially J2 ydna.

And if they really did descend from Indid populations, they could have passed of as Europeans in a few generations as Indid + European Europid = rather European looking offspring as far as I have observed.

They show Weddoid influences to this day, even after extensively mixing with Europeans. Isnt this reflective of their true origins?

Roma Girl ~ very Weddoid by even South Indian standards
http://i.imagehost.org/view/0430/SG8

The Roma male on the left actually has Malid influence!
http://i.imagehost.org/view/0892/BG1

Indo-Melanid Gypsy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-PElSJSb8

Agrippa
Saturday, April 24th, 2010, 02:24 AM
The most reasonable idea I heard is that the Roma are descendence of juggler caste groups, which were largely outside of the social system of their homeland already, low caste and outcaste people.

Such groups still exist in India and the Roma-like groups in the North are well known for their behaviour, aggressive begging, stealing, making shows etc. Saw it in a documentary about a market in the Northern parts of India, was quite impressive because they were EXACTLY the same there as they are here, after hundreds of years - also quite different from the local caste people in India in behaviour and customs...

torrent
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 08:04 PM
The most reasonable idea I heard is that the Roma are descendence of juggler caste groups, which were largely outside of the social system of their homeland already, low caste and outcaste people.

Such groups still exist in India and the Roma-like groups in the North are well known for their behaviour, aggressive begging, stealing, making shows etc. Saw it in a documentary about a market in the Northern parts of India, was quite impressive because they were EXACTLY the same there as they are here, after hundreds of years - also quite different from the local caste people in India in behaviour and customs...

the most interesting question about types of south asia would be what type we might associate with the grey ceramics. why does not someone take a look at it.

german islander
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 08:16 PM
i think its obvious that persian and other european/ middle eastern blood has blended in with many peoples of places like india, some more than less.
I think there are a few who could be considered Caucasian but many here would debate that.

Agrippa
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 10:14 PM
the most interesting question about types of south asia would be what type we might associate with the grey ceramics. why does not someone take a look at it.

They were robust leptodolichomorphs (Nordindid? Irano-Nordoid? Something in between?), must more can't be said.

Obviously the Irano-Nordoid element blended into the local Nordindids.

torrent
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 10:19 PM
They were robust leptodolichomorphs (Nordindid? Irano-Nordoid? Something in between?), must more can't be said.

Obviously the Irano-Nordoid element blended into the local Nordindids.

thanks for the rejoinder. but how do we distinguish eurafrican from nordindid?

Agrippa
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 10:42 PM
thanks for the rejoinder. but how do we distinguish eurafrican from nordindid?

We can't distinguish Atlanto-nordid/Irano-nordoid that easily from Nordindid based on the metrics of the bones, if no other traits are available.

In all those cases I expect the most from genetic testing of the remains, like in the Corded People.