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Tore
Sunday, August 31st, 2003, 12:44 AM
Lineages within the Saami Community

Perhaps as little as 20 lineages (both Paternal and Maternal) are found within the Saami community, with only 4 being truly indigenous.

Paternal Founding Lineages and appoximated frequencies

N3a and N3a1 are two lineages which consititute Eu 14, to which 42% of male Saami lineages can be derived from.

Eu 14, along with Eu 13, form Hg 16(Tat-C).

Other Paternal Lineages

Haplogroups 1, 2, and 3 are also seen along Paternal lines, and all are indicitive of Nordic Scandinavian admixture.

The frequencies are as follows:

Hg 1- 6%
Hg 2- 31%
Hg 3-21%


Maternal Founding Lineages

It is suspected that, like with the Saami male lineages, only two female lineages founded the Saami community. The first is Haplogroup V, which , although rarely found in excess of 5% in other populations, makes up 39.77% of Saami maternal lines. Haplogroup V is a gene marker of Upper Paleolithic/ Old European origin, and shows a strong affinity with Haplogroup H.

The second founding lineage is U5b1, which is a sub-cluster of U5, a Europid gene marker. U5b1 is consitutes 42.61% of Maternal Saami lineages, and is virtually absent in other European populations, which exception to those the Saami have mixed with.

Other Maternal Lineages of European origin

In contrast to Paternal lineages, Scandinavian admixture along female lines is of much smaller incidences.

The frequencies of each haplogroup are as follows:

H - 1.70%
H1 - 1.14%
H8- 2.84%
U5a- 0.57%
U5a1- 0.57%
U5b- 1.70%
W- 0.57%


Other Maternal Lineages of non-European Origin

Two Mongoloid Maternal Lineages of minor importance are found among the Saami. The first is Haplogroup Z, found at a frequency at 3.41%. The second is Haplogroup D*, which is consitutes 5.11% of all lineages.

* Note - Haplogroup D may not necessarily be of Mongoloid inspiration, as it has been shown to provide an evolutionary advantage in coping with the extreme weather conditions of Northerly climates.

Conclusion
Scandinavian admixture, was has thought to be widesread among the Saami, can now be genetically confirmed, consituting roughly a third of all total lineages, and showing a much higher incidence on Male lines than female lines. Confirmed non-European, in this case Mongoloid, admixture is shown in roughly 5% of all total lineages, and is entirely derived from mtDNA.

In summation, the Saami are a relatively homogeneous and genetically tight-knit community, possessing a comparatively small mumber of gene markers which differ from those in found in other populations due to their unique distribution and frequency.

Polak
Sunday, August 31st, 2003, 02:49 AM
That's very interesting.

I think that if we could now unravel the mystery of Tat-C, then we'd have a very precise picture of the Mongolid element in the Lapps.

Evolved
Sunday, August 31st, 2003, 11:41 PM
3-5% mongoloid is really not much at all. So, shouldn't we consider the Sámi to be "white?" :)


On the whole, the Lapp crania, as the Lapp soft parts, take an intermediate position between mongoloid and white standard forms. In some special characters the Lapps are unique, as in the masticatory development, and in the orbit, where Hisinger-Jägerskiöld has found a curiously primitive bony conformation. The possession of these peculiar specializations and primitive traits should prevent the Lapps from being considered a hybrid mongoloid-white racial form. Compared to central Asiatic mongoloids, the Lapps are little specialized. The soft and often fine head hair, the absence of the blue-black hair pigment shade, the infrequency of the mongoloid eyefold, and the absence of an excessive lateral malar development or of great facial width, are evidence of this lack of specialization in a mongoloid direction.
The Lapps (http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/chapter-IX2.htm)

I knew it was mostly Scandinavian male admixture. (I can't imagine many ladies finding Sámi males appealing, except for strange ones like me). They got sick of their gargantuan Carolina Klüft-like Überfrauen and sought after tiny little shamanic babes for some fun in the sauna. :naughty

Loki
Sunday, August 31st, 2003, 11:52 PM
I knew it was mostly Scandinavian male admixture. (I can't imagine many ladies finding Sámi males appealing, except for strange ones like me). They got sick of their gargantuan Carolina Klüft-like Überfrauen and sought after tiny little shamanic babes for some fun in the sauna. :naughty

I always admire your originality and fruitful imagination :)

Evolved
Monday, September 1st, 2003, 12:46 AM
Sámi admixture in Scandinavians is nothing to be worried about, anyway. Here you can see the bigger problem is outright foreigners:

Yahoo profiles for men in Norway (http://members.yahoo.com/interests?.oc=t&.sb=0&.id=&.fn=&.ln=&.em=&.kw=&.g=1&.ar=0&.st=0&.lo=Norway&.p=y)

and um..

http://profiles.yahoo.com/euroman4asiangirl

:insulted

Loki
Monday, September 1st, 2003, 01:25 AM
Sámi admixture in Scandinavians is nothing to be worried about, anyway. Here you can see the bigger problem is outright foreigners:

Yahoo profiles for men in Norway (http://members.yahoo.com/interests?.oc=t&.sb=0&.id=&.fn=&.ln=&.em=&.kw=&.g=1&.ar=0&.st=0&.lo=Norway&.p=y)

and um..

http://profiles.yahoo.com/euroman4asiangirl

:insulted

Absolutely. The Sami are indigenous in Scandinavia, and have never posed a racial threat. They remain a small minority, living in the extreme north.

Polak
Tuesday, September 2nd, 2003, 02:11 PM
I don't think anyone here is saying they pose a threat. But they are certainly an interesting case in terms of genetics and anthropology. It may be that most northern Europeans, including the Slavs, carry Lapp genes, because signs of Lapp existance have been found as far south as Poland and Germany. So it has been a subject that I have always taken a keen interest in.

xïa
Saturday, September 27th, 2003, 01:48 AM
Males:
Eu 13, Eu 14 (M178) = Tat
Hg 1-3

Females:
Haplogroup V, U5b1

If the "Asian" Haplogroups D* and Z are found in the Female lines, could someone have that from any other Female ancestor, even if it doesn´t say so?

The mtDNA is only your mother´s Line, and the males could have married women with either D or Z in their DNA.

It sounds confusing, but for instance.

My maternal grandfather´s mother.

I couldn´t do a test that would show that.

I would assume I would have some of her Genes...

I belong to the U5b1 Haplotype.

--


Lineages within the Saami Community

Perhaps as little as 20 lineages (both Paternal and Maternal) are found within the Saami community, with only 4 being truly indigenous.

Paternal Founding Lineages and appoximated frequencies

N3a and N3a1 are two lineages which consititute Eu 14, to which 42% of male Saami lineages can be derived from.

Eu 14, along with Eu 13, form Hg 16(Tat-C).

Other Paternal Lineages

Haplogroups 1, 2, and 3 are also seen along Paternal lines, and all are indicitive of Nordic Scandinavian admixture.

The frequencies are as follows:

Hg 1- 6%
Hg 2- 31%
Hg 3-21%


Maternal Founding Lineages

It is suspected that, like with the Saami male lineages, only two female lineages founded the Saami community. The first is Haplogroup V, which , although rarely found in excess of 5% in other populations, makes up 39.77% of Saami maternal lines. Haplogroup V is a gene marker of Upper Paleolithic/ Old European origin, and shows a strong affinity with Haplogroup H.

The second founding lineage is U5b1, which is a sub-cluster of U5, a Europid gene marker. U5b1 is consitutes 42.61% of Maternal Saami lineages, and is virtually absent in other European populations, which exception to those the Saami have mixed with.

Other Maternal Lineages of European origin

In contrast to Paternal lineages, Scandinavian admixture along female lines is of much smaller incidences.

The frequencies of each haplogroup are as follows:

H - 1.70%
H1 - 1.14%
H8- 2.84%
U5a- 0.57%
U5a1- 0.57%
U5b- 1.70%
W- 0.57%


Other Maternal Lineages of non-European Origin

Two Mongoloid Maternal Lineages of minor importance are found among the Saami. The first is Haplogroup Z, found at a frequency at 3.41%. The second is Haplogroup D*, which is consitutes 5.11% of all lineages.

* Note - Haplogroup D may not necessarily be of Mongoloid inspiration, as it has been shown to provide an evolutionary advantage in coping with the extreme weather conditions of Northerly climates.

Conclusion
Scandinavian admixture, was has thought to be widesread among the Saami, can now be genetically confirmed, consituting roughly a third of all total lineages, and showing a much higher incidence on Male lines than female lines. Confirmed non-European, in this case Mongoloid, admixture is shown in roughly 5% of all total lineages, and is entirely derived from mtDNA.

In summation, the Saami are a relatively homogeneous and genetically tight-knit community, possessing a comparatively small mumber of gene markers which differ from those in found in other populations due to their unique distribution and frequency.

Tore
Saturday, September 27th, 2003, 05:59 PM
If the "Asian" Haplogroups D* and Z are found in the Female lines, could someone have that from any other Female ancestor, even if it doesn´t say so?

The mtDNA is only your mother´s Line, and the males could have married women with either D or Z in their DNA.

It sounds confusing, but for instance.

My maternal grandfather´s mother.

I couldn´t do a test that would show that.

I would assume I would have some of her Genes...

I belong to the U5b1 Haplotype.

Yes, your ancestors could, and almost certainly would, have other lineages which do not characterize your Y-Chromosome or mtDNA marker.

These tests are effective only when they are applied to large population samples, so it can be determined how many lineages are derived from each population movement etc.

xïa
Monday, September 29th, 2003, 10:16 AM
My maternal grandmother doesn´t fit the Saami characterictics, and most likely there are Finnish and Karelian (ad)mixture.

I do not look Saami either, and there are a couple of pictures of me in another thread.

I am attaching a photo of my mother.

Perhaps we shouldn´t look at the Physical attributes. I think there are other, more visible differences.

xïa
Monday, September 29th, 2003, 10:19 AM
The Cuckoo, by Alexander Rogozhkin:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/TheCuckoo-1123886/about.php

xïa
Monday, September 29th, 2003, 06:49 PM
There were some variation that is called Polymorphism within the mutation.

My mtDNA test results showed deviations from the reference series at bases 16144, 16189 and 16270. In the reference series, base 16144 is a T, base 16189 is a T and base 16270 is a C.

In my mtDNA, these positions have bases C, C, and T, respectively. So, as a shorthand, my variations can be reported as 16144C, 16189C, 16270T.


I am still looking for possibilities of my NPC:

http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/magazine/2000/0602/as.health.html


There aren´t any medical DNA testing available for this type of disease, within this country.

Maybe it is coming from both my mother and father.


http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=4381

:(

Dr. Solar Wolff
Wednesday, October 8th, 2003, 06:42 AM
Returning the Saami, it appears that there is no unique genetic marker seperating them from assuming a place into full European ancestry. Is this wrong?

Tore
Wednesday, October 8th, 2003, 11:41 PM
Returning the Saami, it appears that there is no unique genetic marker seperating them from assuming a place into full European ancestry. Is this wrong?

Concerning the Saami, it appears they are quite deviated genetically from other Europeans in their autosomal DNA.

http://www.racearchives.com/calc/sforza_profiles.asp?popid=2&dbname=sforza26euros

Lapps

Finnish 210
2 Austrian 308
3 Greek 308
4 Germany 314
5 Norwegian 317
6 Russian 323
7 Portuguese 324
8 Belgian 333
9 Swedish 333
10 Danish 334
11 Hungarian 338
12 Italian 339
13 Dutch 341
14 French 350
15 Swiss 375
16 Polish 395
17 English 404
18 Scottish 447
19 Spanish 452
20 Czech 470
21 Icelandic 494
22 Irish 557
23 Yugoslavian 565
24 Basque 629
25 Sardinian 667

Geneticists (Sforza?) have long speculated that this distance is a result of absorbing a greater deal of foreign admixture than other Europeans, which would be Mongoloid specifically.

However, it seems that this distance could be the result of the Saami gene pool being founded by a unique and small (2 males + Females) founder population.

This is supported by the fact that Icelanders, who are notorious for having a small founder population, are genetically deviated from other European groups as well, although not to the extent that the Lapps are (for obvious reasons).

http://www.racearchives.com/calc/sforza_profiles.asp?dbname=sforza26euros&popid=15

Norwegian 74
2 English 76
3 Belgian 78
4 Danish 88
5 Irish 99
6 Dutch 101
7 Swedish 106
8 Germany 106
9 Scottish 111
10 Swiss 115
11 Italian 143
12 Polish 144
13 French 146
14 Portuguese 149
15 Austrian 153
16 Finnish 157
17 Spanish 163
18 Russian 169
19 Hungarian 172
20 Czech 173
21 Basque 221
22 Greek 288
23 Yugoslavian 317
24 Sardinian 396
25 Lapp 494


From this, it could very well be that that the distinct genotype and phenotype which characterizes the Saami population is mainly a result of isolation from other Europeans groups.

xïa
Friday, October 10th, 2003, 05:26 AM
DISTANCE FROM Lapp

Sforza´s Genetic Distances Between 42 World Populations

http://www.racearchives.com/calc/sforza_profiles.asp?popid=26&dbname=sforza42world