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Evolved
Saturday, August 30th, 2003, 05:59 PM
Found this image on Corbis.com. He's very tall and impressive looking. :inlove
I don't know how typical he is for Croatia, or what type he'd be. I know he's not a Dinaric. :)

Vojvoda
Saturday, August 30th, 2003, 06:18 PM
Found this image on Corbis.com. He's very tall and impressive looking. :inlove
I don't know how typical he is for Croatia, or what type he'd be. I know he's not a Dinaric. :)

Carpathid IMO. Could be from Herzegovina? Croatia and the balkans is like Hungary, sub racially mixed, not all are Dinarids.

Polak
Sunday, August 31st, 2003, 02:39 AM
He looks fairly typical for a Croat. They're all very tall, especially the younger ones. Some of my Croatian friends are over 195cm.

Genetically speaking Croats are closest to other Slavic and also Germanic populations. They're especially close to Norwegians, Czechs and Germans actually, both in terms of Y-chromosomes and mtDNA.

But scientists have found some very strange genes on one island in Croatia called Hvar. These markers have not been found in any other European populations, and seem to be of Mongolid, possibly Avar, origin.

Evolved
Sunday, August 31st, 2003, 04:27 AM
Same type as Von Braun (according to Frans)?! Nah, couldn't be.. :nope I wish I had more and better pics of this guy though, without his hat. He could be just a hypermasculine UP Dinaric blend.

Frans_Jozef
Sunday, August 31st, 2003, 09:13 AM
Same type as Von Braun (according to Frans)?! Nah, couldn't be.. :nope I wish I had more and better pics of this guy though, without his hat. He could be just a hypermasculine UP Dinaric blend.

He could pass for the Hercegowinian or Savic subrace of the Dinarids, the deep-set eyes, leptorhine straight-backed nose and strong chin in combination with a rather high and moderate wide face corroborate with this impression.
Dinarids are usually hyperleptoprosopic, but in former Yugoslavia , starting from Venezia Guilia and Veneto in Italy, the face enlarges, possibly under influence of residual UP groups.

Yes, it would be indeed very interesting to take a look unto his vault: an arched or flat-topped but general elevation of the vault is considered pure Dinaric of Middle Eastern extraction, while Norics like Capellids, Borreby and Danubians tend to be for the first twoparts rather low, while the rear end swepts up, sometimes in a straight drop or in a broken angle with a marked depression at lamda(an UP strain).

Scáthach
Sunday, August 31st, 2003, 11:57 PM
Think i'm more partial to the Serbs LG ;) :D

Triglav
Tuesday, September 2nd, 2003, 04:15 PM
In addition to his Dinaric strain, his features are reminiscent of some of the Croatian Mediterraneans, and aditionally the remainder of the UP people is also visible in him. Yes, this look is quite common in Croatia. If I saw him in the streets of Slovenia or somewhere else, my first guess would be Croatian.

Vojvoda
Tuesday, September 2nd, 2003, 06:42 PM
In addition to his Dinaric strain, his features are reminiscent of some of the Croatian Mediterraneans, and aditionally the remainder of the UP people is also visible in him. Yes, this look is quite common in Croatia. If I saw him in the streets of Slovenia or somewhere else, my first guess would be Croatian.

Interesting Slovenian. Well, Carpathid is UP of an estern variety but Frans is probably correct. He is a "Cro"-magnid:)

Triglav
Wednesday, September 3rd, 2003, 11:36 PM
Interesting Slovenian. Well, Carpathid is UP of an estern variety but Frans is probably correct. He is a "Cro"-magnid:)

Nice pun :). Well, I merely pointed out that this particular look is quite common in Croatia so I would automatically attribute such an individual to that country. Perhaps some other country in the Balkans features the same type - Slovenia doesn't.

Could anyone enlighten me about the Carpathid type? That is the only thing I have ever read about it:

"The Dinarid race has a very closely-related, somewhat shorter-statured, subrace in southwestern Asia, namely, the Armenid subrace (See Figure 9). The Armenid subrace has higher frequencies of blood type genes p and q. The very much shorter-statured population around the Carpathian mountain region of eastern Central Europe forms a special "hybrid-race" ("Mischrasse") - the Carpathid race (the Litoral race of Deniker). This race, which resembles the east-Alpines in many anthropological traits, has a larger nose. This is due to ancient Armenid strains (which is also the view of Hungarian investigators). The Carpathid race evidently originated from mixtures of Mediterraneans with Armenids."

From: http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/lundman-races.htm

Is that the same type? Where is the Cro(at)-Magnid in it? ;)

As to the older Mediterraneans with UP affiliation - FIG. 4 in:
http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Papers/p22.htm

Might there be a similar connection?

Regards

Vojvoda
Thursday, September 4th, 2003, 12:01 AM
You can find dinarids in the Ukraine, southern Germany,France...not just the Balkans.I've never been to Slovenia.What is the predominant sub-racial type over there?

Triglav
Friday, September 5th, 2003, 01:25 AM
Savic? Interesting. Could you be so kind to give me (or us) an overview of the Dinaric (sub-)sub-races, possibly with a brief description of their characteristics (and, in case you have some at hand, a photo example)?

Do you consider Dinarics, as Coon does, (at least partly) a stabilized Alpine-Mediterranid (Pontid) blend? What would their relation to Armenians be?

Kind regards,

- Thorburn


providenje: Would you care to translate the following lines, since there are two crucial words I am not familiar with. :thumbup Sorry ;).

"U oblastima gde se javlja Dinarska rasa nailazimo na visoki brahikefalni tip ali sa oplavom kosom i plavim očima. To je Lebzelter-ova Norička rasa ili Noridi (?kerlj). kako se ovaj tip u svemu poklapa sa Dinarskom rasom, sem u kornpleksiji, to ga mi smatramo dinaroid-nom formom, srodnom Dinarskoj rasi. Nazivamo ga Plavom dinarsko,n rasorn (Male?). Mo?da je ovaj plavi brahikefal istovetan sa Galatskom rasom Guiarta-a. On nas mnogo potseća na Fenonordisku podrasu.

Kao oblasni ?kerlj je opisao Savidski tip. Uglavnom odgovara dinarskorn osnovnom tipu. Odlikuje se svetlom bojorn du?ice. Rast rno?e da bude osrednji, a i glava da se udalji od brahimorfnosti. Da li se ovaj tip javlja samo u Sloveniji ili i u drugim dinarskim krajevima ? za sada ne znam. I u Srbiji nalazimo Dinaroide sa plavim i zelenkastim očima. Ali ne znam da li su to bastardne kratkotrajne forme ili su nasledno stalne.

Perhaps someone could provide us with Skerlj's assessment of the "Savid" subrace. This is actually the one I have been trying to get hold of for ages.

Vojvoda
Friday, September 5th, 2003, 02:40 AM
providenje: Would you care to translate the following lines, since there are two crucial words I am not familiar with. :thumbup Sorry ;).

"U oblastima gde se javlja Dinarska rasa nailazimo na visoki brahikefalni tip ali sa oplavom kosom i plavim očima. To je Lebzelter-ova Norička rasa ili Noridi (?kerlj). kako se ovaj tip u svemu poklapa sa Dinarskom rasom, sem u kornpleksiji, to ga mi smatramo dinaroid-nom formom, srodnom Dinarskoj rasi. Nazivamo ga Plavom dinarsko,n rasorn (Male?). Mo?da je ovaj plavi brahikefal istovetan sa Galatskom rasom Guiarta-a. On nas mnogo potseća na Fenonordisku podrasu.

Kao oblasni ?kerlj je opisao Savidski tip. Uglavnom odgovara dinarskorn osnovnom tipu. Odlikuje se svetlom bojorn du?ice. Rast rno?e da bude osrednji, a i glava da se udalji od brahimorfnosti. Da li se ovaj tip javlja samo u Sloveniji ili i u drugim dinarskim krajevima ? za sada ne znam. I u Srbiji nalazimo Dinaroide sa plavim i zelenkastim očima. Ali ne znam da li su to bastardne kratkotrajne forme ili su nasledno stalne.

Perhaps someone could provide us with Skerlj's assessment of the "Savid" subrace. This is actually the one I have been trying to get hold of for ages.Sure, but It'll cost ya;) I accept Paypal :lol

That is from Pera_Z's 'sticky' post in the slavic vortex. There are some spelling mistakes, probably not his fault(such as bojorn?).Maybe it was a copy+paste job.

"In the area where there are Dinarids there is a tall, brachycephalic type but with blondish hair and blue eyes. that is Lebzelter's Noric race.Since this type is connected to the dinaric race, except for the complexion, we regard this type to be a dinaroid form and related to the dinarid race. We call them blond dinarids.(:lol-really?)Maybe this blond brachycephal is similar to the Galatian race.They remind us also of the Fenonordic race.(M.I.-Hercegovina may be the "blondest"area in fromer Yugoslavia, predominately Noric)

Skerlj said that the Savid race is a regional type.It bascially corresponds to the Dinarid type. The difference is lighter eyes/hair, the stature is moderate and the head hithers away from brachycephaly.Is this type only found in Slovenia or in other dinaric areas? For now I don't know. In Serbia there is also the same Dinaroid type with blue and green eyes.But I don't know if it is a mixed, unstable type or an insistent type."

Savid(meaning Sava river) is definitely related to Dinarid and not Danubian(ex out the Ladogan admixture and shorter statured than Savids but also mesocephalic) of which most Central Serbs and Eastern Croats belong to.



Moze li u Tolarima?:)

Vojvoda
Friday, September 5th, 2003, 05:30 AM
The rest of the text Pera_Z posted pretty much explains that you can find Alpinids,Nordids, and Meds(mostly in the south and Dalmatia) in The fromer Yugoslavia and it makes sense. Much more diverse Than what Coon had stated in his book(predominately Dinarid).

Evolved
Friday, September 5th, 2003, 10:02 PM
Fairhaired Dinarids have a special place in my heart. :emb I think it's the recipe for a perfect man. :2girls

Here are some examples of Dinarics and Norics (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=2304) I posted awhile ago.