PDA

View Full Version : Med ?



goidelicwarrior
Wednesday, August 27th, 2003, 04:12 PM
these images of randomly selected Spaniards from north to south illustrates well the composition of the nation formely known as Celtiiberia.. any thoughts...

Milesian
Wednesday, August 27th, 2003, 05:26 PM
They all look Med or Med/UP to me.
With the possible exception of the last man, I'm not sure if he's Med.

Azdaja
Wednesday, August 27th, 2003, 05:58 PM
From what I've read, northern Spain is somewhat racially different from the rest of the country. Although the primary element is still Mediterranean (in this case Western Mediterranean), there are also some Nordid and Alpinid strains.
My guesses:
Pic 1 = Nordid + West Med cross
Pic 2 = West Med (more or less)
Pic 3 = Alpine + Med
Pic 4 = Berid (wild guess, as I don't know what a Berid looks like. This guy looks "medish", but not West Med)
Pic 5 = West Med + Nordid or Borreby
Pic 6 = Probably the most 'nordish' of them all.

cosmocreator
Wednesday, August 27th, 2003, 06:12 PM
Quick evaluation:

1: Atlanto-Med
2: Alpinid/Med mix
3: Atlanto-Med/Alpinid mix
4: Almost looks Keltic Nordic
5: looks Slavic.
6: Battle Axe maybe.

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, August 27th, 2003, 06:47 PM
these images of randomly selected Spaniards from north to south illustrates well the composition of the nation formely known as Celtiiberia.. any thoughts...

These people could fit without much problem in France, North Italy as well the western fringe of Central Europe, an area encompassing the former Celtic distribution on the mainland and virtually a border region where the UP-Alpine-Nordic world meets and mixes with the Mediterranids.

What we got here is a reasonable harmonic solution of both partitions; if we eliminate slight exotic features, which only give them their distinctive Soutwestern European look:

1. Keltic Nordic
2. Alpine
3. Nordic, with diluted Alpine admixture
4. Nordic, but coarse skin texture and grooved lines may hint a Dinaric or UP source
5. Alpine-Faelian
6. Faelian

goidelicwarrior
Thursday, August 28th, 2003, 12:30 PM
These people could fit without much problem in France, North Italy as well the western fringe of Central Europe, an area encompassing the former Celtic distribution on the mainland and virtually a border region where the UP-Alpine-Nordic world meets and mixes with the Mediterranids.

What we got here is a reasonable harmonic solution of both partitions; if we eliminate slight exotic features, which only give them their distinctive Soutwestern European look:

1. Keltic Nordic
2. Alpine
3. Nordic, with diluted Alpine admixture
4. Nordic, but coarse skin texture and grooved lines may hint a Dinaric or UP source
5. Alpine-Faelian
6. Faelian

this was my intention.. to show that the talk about a Med " race " is utter nonsens.. what I have been emphazizing is that during the millenia migrations have mingled the white subraces, specially on the Iberian peninsula ... the Celts in early days covered ( see map ) what is most of western Europe, so the above composition is resonable..

Awar
Tuesday, September 30th, 2003, 04:24 PM
Mediterraneans are just a name for the large group of people who can be divided into at least 4 groups.
Spanish meds are different from Greek meds, who are different from levantine meds etc.

goidelicwarrior
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2004, 12:55 PM
Mediterraneans are just a name for the large group of people who can be divided into at least 4 groups.
Spanish meds are different from Greek meds, who are different from levantine meds etc. funny that they are not classyfied as meds when they are from a med country.. :D

galvez
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2004, 04:29 PM
these images of randomly selected Spaniards from north to south illustrates well the composition of the nation formely known as Celtiiberia.. any thoughts...

I wonder how "randomly selected" these Spaniards are. A few of them look like Northern Europeans, and one in fact is blonde. Perhaps you selected the most "Nordish" Spaniards you could find to give a false impression of Spain. The swarthy elements of Spain are well-known and there is no reason to hide it. Velazquez, Spain's greatest artist, looked nothing like those individuals you posted. (I am green-eyed and largely UP, and have been classified as a "Paleo-Atlantid." However, I see nothing wrong with brown-eyed Spaniards, and feel no need to hide them, which is why I had Velazquez on my avatar when I first posted at Skadi).

Rex
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2004, 05:31 PM
I wonder how "randomly selected" these Spaniards are. A few of them look like Northern Europeans, and one in fact is blonde. Perhaps you selected the most "Nordish" Spaniards you could find to give a false impression of Spain. The swarthy elements of Spain are well-known and there is no reason to hide it. Velazquez, Spain's greatest artist, looked nothing like those individuals you posted. (I am green-eyed and largely UP, and have been classified as a "Paleo-Atlantid." However, I see nothing wrong with brown-eyed Spaniards, and feel no need to hide them, which is why I had Velazquez on my avatar when I first posted at Skadi).

Of course, Velázquez was from Andalucia (South of Spain) .The swarthy elements of Spain have non white origin.:D

galvez
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2004, 05:48 PM
Of course, Velázquez was from Andalucia (South of Spain) .The swarthy elements of Spain have non white origin.:D

You might be interested in this refutation (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=81254&postcount=11) by Hidalgo.

I am part-Galician, by the way. ;)

Alarico
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2004, 06:22 PM
I wonder how "randomly selected" these Spaniards are. A few of them look like Northern Europeans, and one in fact is blonde. Perhaps you selected the most "Nordish" Spaniards you could find to give a false impression of Spain. The swarthy elements of Spain are well-known and there is no reason to hide it. Velazquez, Spain's greatest artist, looked nothing like those individuals you posted. (I am green-eyed and largely UP, and have been classified as a "Paleo-Atlantid." However, I see nothing wrong with brown-eyed Spaniards, and feel no need to hide them, which is why I had Velazquez on my avatar when I first posted at Skadi).


Hello Galvez, we don´t know hoy "randomly selected" are those. I didn´t what exaple put to you but this is great: search for the Spanish players of real madrid in this page, you will see how can a spanish look like, nobody selected this guys but their soccer skills:

http://www.realmadrid.com/web_realmadrid/templates/plantilla/primeraplantillafutbol.jsp

Alarico
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2004, 06:25 PM
I wonder how "randomly selected" these Spaniards are. A few of them look like Northern Europeans, and one in fact is blonde. Perhaps you selected the most "Nordish" Spaniards you could find to give a false impression of Spain. The swarthy elements of Spain are well-known and there is no reason to hide it. Velazquez, Spain's greatest artist, looked nothing like those individuals you posted. (I am green-eyed and largely UP, and have been classified as a "Paleo-Atlantid." However, I see nothing wrong with brown-eyed Spaniards, and feel no need to hide them, which is why I had Velazquez on my avatar when I first posted at Skadi).


Hello Galvez, we don´t know hoy "randomly selected" are those. I didn´t what exaple put to you but this is great: search for the Spanish players of real madrid in this page, you will see how can a spanish look like, nobody selected this guys but their soccer skills:

http://www.realmadrid.com/web_realmadrid/templates/plantilla/primeraplantillafutbol.jsp

Anyway, i belive in my race, in my country, my heritage and my land´s history and i am proud of being spanish. Do you think spain is not white? if you are lucky and you have moeny to travel, just travel to spain and then judge.

Rex
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2004, 06:30 PM
Thanks, but these examples are not too much good for example the photo of the basque football player URZAIZ : I saw this guy IN PERSON several times -on the street not in Stadium-some years ago, he is not dark his only problem is that he likes UVA RAYS. The other photos are taked with very bad quality INDURAIN is not dark either and with Lucía Echevarría the same. Spain is not a monolithic racial block justly France, Germany , Italy... and the swarthy elements are not the common racial background (for me swarty elements are persons tanned with gypsy look).

Anyway, I am not a fan of the basque race but I respect it.

Vojvoda
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2004, 06:51 PM
I wonder how "randomly selected" these Spaniards are. A few of them look like Northern Europeans, and one in fact is blonde. Perhaps you selected the most "Nordish" Spaniards you could find to give a false impression of Spain. The swarthy elements of Spain are well-known and there is no reason to hide it. Velazquez, Spain's greatest artist, looked nothing like those individuals you posted. (I am green-eyed and largely UP, and have been classified as a "Paleo-Atlantid." However, I see nothing wrong with brown-eyed Spaniards, and feel no need to hide them, which is why I had Velazquez on my avatar when I first posted at Skadi).

"whiskers may reveal a few strands of red or even blond. Blond hair may be seen, but it is the exception. Its presence does not require some invasion of Goths or Scyths or the miscegenation of Crusaders. One of the characteristics of the Mediterranean race is a minority tendency toward blondism. This is seen much more frequently in the eyes, since blond hair, which appears in infants, usually darkens as the hair coarsens with age."

http://www.geocities.com/dienekesp/coonmed.html

Gesta Bellica
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2004, 07:08 PM
Spain is not a monolithic racial block justly France, Germany , Italy...

All those countries are not composed by a singular subracial block. A Venetan is not like a Sicilian, a Normand is not a Provençal and so on...

Vetinari
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2004, 07:34 PM
All those countries are not composed by a singular subracial block. A Venetan is not like a Sicilian, a Normand is not a Provençal and so on...

Very true. According to the link below, Italy seems to be a very diverse country.


http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/62802/italy.pdf

Gesta Bellica
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2004, 07:53 PM
Very true. According to the link below, Italy seems to be a very diverse country.


http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/62802/italy.pdf


Nice link..
Sometimes we look just at the colour of hair/eyes and the tone of skin top judge the homogeneity of a population.
Blond = Nordic
Dark = Med
it's too simplicistic.

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, February 4th, 2004, 12:22 AM
You might be interested in this refutation (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=81254&postcount=11) by Hidalgo.

I am part-Galician, by the way. ;)

Which makes that you inherited some Celtic and Suebean blood, a honorary Northwesterner. ;)

Although not always in agreement with your viewpoints, I regard you as a right-minded, venerable person(I am not fawning despite my pathethic writing style...) and pleased with your participation on this Forum to keep up its great quality and standards.

Agrippa
Wednesday, February 4th, 2004, 03:27 AM
Well, Spain is probably one of the most Mediterranid countries in Europe but that does not have to mean that all Spaniards are Mediterranid of course.

Especially in the North you see many mixed and even pure Alpines and Nordids in special together with Northern (Atlantid) and Western (Gracilmediterranid) individuals.

I hope thats nothing new for the most of us...

And in fact this does no disprove the reality that the Spaniards are one of the most Mediterranid folks in Europe. (only Portugal, probably Greece and Sardinia have a higher percentage of Meds)

goidelicwarrior
Wednesday, February 4th, 2004, 09:22 AM
I wonder how "randomly selected" these Spaniards are. A few of them look like Northern Europeans, and one in fact is blonde. Perhaps you selected the most "Nordish" Spaniards you could find to give a false impression of Spain. The swarthy elements of Spain are well-known and there is no reason to hide it. Velazquez, Spain's greatest artist, looked nothing like those individuals you posted. (I am green-eyed and largely UP, and have been classified as a "Paleo-Atlantid." However, I see nothing wrong with brown-eyed Spaniards, and feel no need to hide them, which is why I had Velazquez on my avatar when I first posted at Skadi). hiding what? who said it is wrong with brown eyes??? heres my source for random selection.. http://www.congreso.es....

Hidalgo
Wednesday, February 4th, 2004, 10:20 AM
Velazquez was part portuguese from his father's side while his maternal ancestors were Sevillan Hidalgos.

Nació con los calores del último año del siglo XVI y fue bautizado el 6 de junio en la parroquia sevillana de San Pedro como hijo primogénito de Don Juan Rodríguez de Silva y Doña Jerónima Velázquez. Su abuelo Diego fue un portugués de Oporto que llegó en busca de fortuna a Sevilla, donde nació el padre de nuestro pintor. La familia materna era toda sevillana.
http://www.arrakis.es/~corcus/losantos/losnuestros/velazquez.htm


I am part-Galician, by the way.

Actually we could say that most Spaniards are part Galician to a more or less degree if we look at the history of migrations in Spain. Castile and Extremadura was heavily populated by Galicians. Andalucia was later populated by people from these regions. After the reconquest until today Galician workers continued to migrated to these regions. If someone from Castile, Extremadura and Andalucia trace their ancestry back to the 8th century a significant part of his ancestors will live in Galicia(most other's of his ancestors will live above the Duero).

Here's a good site about the repoblación.
http://www.hispagen.org/ponencias/migraciones.pdf

galvez
Wednesday, February 4th, 2004, 09:43 PM
Well, Spain is probably one of the most Mediterranid countries in Europe but that does not have to mean that all Spaniards are Mediterranid of course.

Especially in the North you see many mixed and even pure Alpines and Nordids in special together with Northern (Atlantid) and Western (Gracilmediterranid) individuals.

I hope thats nothing new for the most of us...

And in fact this does no disprove the reality that the Spaniards are one of the most Mediterranid folks in Europe. (only Portugal, probably Greece and Sardinia have a higher percentage of Meds)

Yes, there are Alpines in Spain, even relatively pure ones. If a person is to believe McCulloch, Spaniards are basically West Mediterranean, South Mediterranean (whatever the heck that is), and with some token "Nordics" thrown in. Alpines, Atlanto-Meds, Bruenns, and other types are totally neglected to serve his political needs.

Spain is a nation that is predominantly Mediterranean, but it is a nation with very diverse phenotypes -- and yes, with Alpines too (I am part-Alpine, even if it's not predominant, so according to McCulloch I don't exist!).

Agrippa
Wednesday, February 4th, 2004, 10:15 PM
I said it and I say it again, the picture of the Iberians in North America is influenced by the way the WASPs see the Latin American/Hispanic people which are mainly mixed and on a lower social-cultural level.

Awar
Wednesday, February 4th, 2004, 10:29 PM
A lot isn't clear to AMericans, that's why I love Skadi, the only forum where you don't feel the need to constantly explain basic things to people.

PS. Visit Dodona :)

Allenson
Wednesday, February 4th, 2004, 10:31 PM
A lot isn't clear to AMericans, that's why I love Skadi, the only forum where you don't feel the need to constantly explain basic things to people.

PS. Visit Dodona :)


Can you explain to me what you mean? :D

j/k!

Awar
Wednesday, February 4th, 2004, 10:42 PM
Can you explain to me what you mean? :D

j/k!
It all began with a big bang, then god created the earth, then life began with coacervates, amoebas, serbs and croats, then there were the dinosaurs... :D

goidelicwarrior
Thursday, February 5th, 2004, 10:49 AM
I said it and I say it again, the picture of the Iberians in North America is influenced by the way the WASPs see the Latin American/Hispanic people which are mainly mixed and on a lower social-cultural level. no shit... :D

Rex
Monday, February 9th, 2004, 09:30 AM
That's a joke, right?
It would write off all historical researchs and findings so far.


No, it is not a joke , right ?

You and me have a pending meeting. I want to know who are you.

Graeme
Tuesday, February 10th, 2004, 02:33 PM
Rex, were talking about the Gypsies? They are definitely swarthy.

MaxH
Sunday, March 14th, 2004, 10:30 PM
...and also possibly some Berber (there was a large garrison of Berbers stationed there in the 8th century), some Jewish (the town of Ribadavia in Galicia had a large Jewish population), some British (the town of Britona outside Modonedo is alleged to have been populated by a group of Britons who arrived after a long trek from the UK escaping the Anglo-Saxon invaders), some Visigothic etc etc. Truly an honorary Iberian ;)


Which makes that you inherited some Celtic and Suebean blood, a honorary Northwesterner. ;)

Although not always in agreement with your viewpoints, I regard you as a right-minded, venerable person(I am not fawning despite my pathethic writing style...) and pleased with your participation on this Forum to keep up its great quality and standards.

Turificator
Sunday, March 14th, 2004, 11:17 PM
Spain is far more homogeneous than France, and more than Italy.

Just for the record: the term 'Italian', similarly to 'Spanish' or 'French', is not a marker of ethnicity. It is a modern cultural construct used to designate diverse European populations living under the same Nation-State. So the fact that 'Spain' is not a homogeneous area is hardly surprising...

Graeme
Saturday, March 20th, 2004, 12:59 PM
When it comes to Meds or other racial sub types, do any of the photographs posted in this forum illustrate real types or are they stereotypic and not typical of the sub races?

I find the pictures of the "Spaniards" acceptable as they represent living types found in Spain. They look Spanish to me even Mr. Pinkie. I actually dislike that type of complexion as it looks like the man has hypertension. When I am in Spain I do not go around with a book noting the complexions or face shape of the people I meet ( I do sketch people though), so I can't tell you whether they are representative of the whole of Spain's population or just a small, select subset of Spain's people. The point for me is that Meds can look like those people and that previous inhabitants have contributed to the appearance of the population, which in this case would be the Kelts. I do not accept soccer players as representative of a population. Why? They are young, fit, male and probably come mostly from the lower strata of Spain. Think of David Beckham, if he wasn't good at soccer he probably would be carrying your bags to your hotel room in England. At least the pictures had two women and everyone was over 30 which for Spain is probable closer to the mean age.

Odin Of Ossetia
Monday, March 29th, 2004, 08:03 AM
Quick evaluation:

1: Atlanto-Med
2: Alpinid/Med mix
3: Atlanto-Med/Alpinid mix
4: Almost looks Keltic Nordic
5: looks Slavic.
6: Battle Axe maybe.




Yes, I agree that #5 does look Slavic, or at least partly Slavic.


Here is perhaps why:


http://michalw.narod.ru/SlavicSpain.html

Graeme
Wednesday, March 31st, 2004, 01:38 PM
I agree with the site now closed called legioneuropa. I consider Med to be purely European. The Anglo-Saxon idea of a large monolithic sub race of caucasoids going from the Atlantic to India is just pure fiction. Some Levantines do look European, it is not surprising after the history of European colonisation of the levantine. Indian, North Africans and the average Arabic speaker do not look like Europeans. That is why I prefer Indid, Irano-Afghan etc except I do not consider them members of the Med group. When Spain is considered, the Keltic element is very strong, the Germanic element is present, but weak, and the darker elements most likely the descendents of those dark Iberians described by the ancients before the presence of any Moors or other North Africans. Here in Australia I watch the government news programs from various European countries: Spain, Italy, Germany, Malta, Russia and so on. I don't understand the languages at all, except Italian, but it gives a good representation of the people in these countries. The Spanish group are without much variation dark brown haired, dark eyed and pale brown skinned. Swarthy types or blond types are seen but not usual. I find the people shown as Spanish in the photos to be representative of the general population of Spain.

PoloChico
Saturday, April 10th, 2004, 05:12 AM
Ya gente BASTA! Joder!!! Spain is a very heterogeneous country!

We the Spanish people are essentially a mixture of the indigenous peoples of the Iberian Peninsula with the successive peoples who conquered the peninsula and occupied it for extended periods. These added ethnologic elements include the Romans, a Mediterranean people, and the Suevi, Vandals, and Visigoths, Teutonic peoples. Semitic elements are also present. Several ethnic groups in Spain have kept a separate identity, culturally and linguistically. These include the Catalans (16 percent of the population), the Gallegos (7 percent), the Basques, or Euskal-dun (2 percent), and the nomadic Spanish Roma (Gypsies), also called Gitanos.

We as Spaniards should be proud of the diversity in our race, histroy, country and culture.. That is what makes Spain a unique country!!!

David el Ibero!
Que Viva Andalucia y Galicia!
:D

goidelicwarrior
Thursday, September 23rd, 2004, 09:46 AM
...and also possibly some Berber (there was a large garrison of Berbers stationed there in the 8th century), some Jewish (the town of Ribadavia in Galicia had a large Jewish population), some British (the town of Britona outside Modonedo is alleged to have been populated by a group of Britons who arrived after a long trek from the UK escaping the Anglo-Saxon invaders), some Visigothic etc etc. Truly an honorary Iberian ;) Galicia is together with Iceland the regions of Europe with the least genetic outsideinfluences... your statements doesent prove anyomore than your own stupidity :D