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TraitResearcher
Tuesday, October 4th, 2005, 01:38 PM
Socially-constructive empathy and socially-destructive aggression undoubtebly exist due to evolution in particular environments which favored those
contrasting traits. Evolution in a particular environment over time not only produces distinct character traits, but also produces distinct physical features,
some of which are adaptations to the environment, and others of which are random, and such physical features constitute races and subraces.

Due to the fact that character traits observably vary considerably among individuals within the few macro races, probably the europeans most of all, the subraces should be studied to determine which of them originally evolved which specific character traits.

After those answers are discovered, there is then the question of the geographical origin of each subrace, and how their environmental situation created their character via natural selection. My guess is that you other people on this forum are already aware of the fact that the higher rate of sleaziness and criminality among sub-saharan africans is the result of the hospitably warm temperature and the abundant food supply, which eliminates the necessity of dedicated social organization. I don't consider that correlation to be grounds for racial stereotyping though, mind you.

For a years I have paid attention to the character traits of a person in comparison to their appearance, and physical traits that often occur together,
mostly facial features. I have noticed many of such correlations. Groups of physical and character traits that often occur together indicate the
characteristics of an original subrace. Those subraces thus constitute the origins of the character traits. I don't know if any of you have also researched these types of correlations before.

The majority of subraces do not appear to have any particular inclination of character, but some stand out for being relatively civilized or relatively
aggressive. Note that chromosomal shuffling can dissociate physical traits and character traits, so physical traits certainly do not guarantee the presence of the most common corresponding character traits, meaning that this information should NOT be used to make stereotyping judgments.

There is also the fact that few people closely match a subracial description, as almost all people are mixtures, and original trait combinations only reemerge sometimes.

Due to the fact that I live in the United States, and most people in person and in the non-fiction media of said country are of european origin, I have mostly paid attention to european subraces and know most about them, so only european subraces are listed here. By the way, I personally am not a europoid. I hope that you do not take offense to your subraces being studied by an 'outsider'.

The following are the correlations that I have observed between character traits and specific sets of physical traits, which define specific subraces. Most
of the sub-racial names are clearly improvised, due to lacking official names:

The more civilized/empathic subraces:

1. Aryan: Physical features: relatively light build, light tan skin, generally rectangular facial features, rectangular forehead and rectangular cheekbones, flat eyebrows situated adjacent to narrow eyes, defined nose bridge, angled jaw that is narrow in the front, diagonal cheek indentations; these types occur sporadically throughout europe, the middle east, and india; most likely originated in southern russia, according to archeological evidence

2. Nostalgic Cro-Magnon: Physical features: like all cro-magnon types, these types have a relatively flat face, diagonal crease lines on the cheeks, and relatively prominent philtrum ridges (between the nose and upper lip); these types are distinguished by their prominent oblique vertical fold of and outside of the lips, seemingly drooping upper cheek flesh, and an upper outer eye border that is constricted; light to medium build; these types occur both among europeans and native amerindians, as they are of the same origin; cro-magnons in general have most likely originated in and/or near the Altai mountains of Central Asia.

3. Pale Coastal European: Physical features: light to medium build, pale skin suggestive of a cloudy and/or forest geography; sometimes reddish lips, somewhat receding/angled forehead, subtle convex bone arc under the eyebrows, facial features are generally rounded around the edges; jaw is angled, narrow in the front, and substantially recessed in both front-to-back and vertical dimensions; most likely originated in western europe, in a cloudy coastal region.

4. Bony West European: Physical features: usually a light or medium build; pale skin; convex bony nose, jaw is recessed relative to the cheekbones, front of the jaw is flat and of medium width, front of the mouth and chin region sometimes has a narrow hexagonal shape, eyes are narrow and angled downward toward the outside, generally bony face, thick eyebrows, eyebrows adjacent to the eyes, sometimes a deep jaw; these types are most common in spain and the british isles, most likely originated in a warm cloudy region of spain due to the combination of pale skin and mediterranean-adapted bony facial features (to dissipate heat); it can be speculated that warm but cloudy climate might be indirectly causative of good character, due to environmental effects.

5. Space-tooth Northwest European: Physical features: usually a light build; relatively pale skin; distinctive front of jaw that is projecting, relatively narrow, and rounded in the front-to-back dimension; teeth are straight but there is significant space between them; nose is distinctive, with the lower soft part projecting forward from the upper hard part; facial features are generally semi-rounded; this type probably originated in or near Ireland or Sweden.

6. Neat Northwest European: Physical features: narrow eyes, outer eyes are especially narrow, small lips, upper lip has a downward point in the middle, sometimes vertical lines of creases where the edge of the mouth meets the cheek, pale skin, relatively long face, pointed nose; this type most likely originated in Ireland.


The more aggressive subraces:

1. Dominant Cro-Magnon: Physical features: like all cro-magnon types, these types have a relatively flat face, diagonal crease lines on the cheeks, and relatively prominent philtrum ridges (between the nose and upper lip); these types are distinguished by the upward prominence at the center of their upper lip between the philtrum ridges, the great width and flatness of their mouth region (more so than other cro-magnon types), eyebrows that are bushy and somewhat raised on the outside, and somewhat buggy eyes; usually a medium build; cro-magnons in general have most likely originated in and/or near the Altai mountains of Central Asia.

2. Flat fatty face: Physical features: fat heavy build; face is flat and fatty, particularly with fatty lower cheeks; face may be round or squarish, fat may be flat or more bulbous, lips are sometimes thin and downturned; this type is most common in england, ireland, and germany; there are multiple distinct subtypes of this general type; particularly, there is a british type with pale skin, flat facial fat, and thin downturned lips, and there is an irish type with a round head and bulbous facial fat.

3. Fish face: Physical features: usually a light build, cheekbones have little indentation in the front relative to the forehead, eyes are shallowly-set and buggy; hair is orange or light brown, forehead is rounded and receding; this type seems to be common in both Scotland and Russia.

4. Hollow flat face: Physical features: usually a medium build; flat, plain-looking face; rounded nose that is slightly upturned, shallow-set buggy eyes, border of the face is rounded from the front view, eyebrows are bushy; this type exists among both europeans and amerindians, due either to common origin or parallel trait emergence.

5. Convex face: Physical features: usually a light build; vertically convex face, receding forehead, face can range from short to long, mouth is wide, eyebrows are bushy and arced, hair is usually black; this type is most common among italians.


There are most likely other subraces that belong on either list, as I have identified some other correlations between single traits, the point being that the
list is not necessarily complete. I may or may not continue to conduct this research.

There is also the question of what environmental situations caused the aforementioned european subraces to evolve their particular characters, but
that is beyond the scope of this post, and it is information that I have not yet discovered.

QuietWind
Tuesday, October 4th, 2005, 05:18 PM
I personally do not mind a non-Europid studying Europid sub-racial types and people. I do have a question: you mention that it is important to study sub-racial type and then to compare them to personality traits, yet then, why do you create your own sub-racial classifications instead of using standard accepted types already in existence?

In creating your own types, the burden of proof is on you to show that these "types" are distinct types and that individuals can fit within these types.

You must catalogue examples and prevalence throughout countries. You need to have more than just a limited set of observations that you have based this upon.

Another thing, there are threads (posted by Agrippa) on things such as body type and a certain personalities. Maybe you should read up on some of the current literature.

There is also a face analyzer web site that determines personality based upon a photo and a few questions. I am not sure it is anywhere near accurate, but it is fun, nonetheless. http://www.faceanalyzer.com/ (This isn't the site I was thinking about. There is another one. If I find it later, I'll post it.)

Edit: here is the link: http://similarminds.com/face/start.php

Lastly, do you really think you can sum each "group" up in a few personality comments? I think it stereotyping and not necessarily accurate. I can tell you one thing. My entire life, people have assumed falsely about me from first meeting-- which means that my personality doesn't fit their expectations based upon my exterior. ;)

Cole Nidray
Tuesday, October 4th, 2005, 05:42 PM
My guess is that you other people on this forum are already aware of the fact that the higher rate ofsleaziness and criminality among sub-saharan africans is the result of the hospitably warm temperature and the abundant food supply, which eliminates the necessity of dedicated social organization. That's true. :thumbup

I don't consider that correlation to be grounds for racial stereotyping though, mind you.:thumbdown That's weird that you acknowledge the criminality of Africans yet deny us the right to judge their race on average as being a danger; weirder still that you refuse to "stereotype" them yet you divide Europids into all manner of non-sensical stereotypes.


3. fish face: (...) It used to be cool to be a fish-face. :P

My sister and I used to call my hippie cousin "Phish Phace", similar to "Dead Head".

I think that you should read more about racial subgroups instead of depending on the media. Stay away from Franz Boas.

Allenson
Thursday, October 6th, 2005, 04:07 PM
Hello TraitResearcher,

Fascinating thread, indeed! I've been meaning to respond for a couple of days not--so finally, here it goes. ;)




Evolution in a particular environment over time not only
produces distinct character traits, but also produces distinct physical features, some of which are adaptations to the environment, and others of which are random, and such physical features constitute races and subraces.


Absolutely. I'm glad to know that there is at least one person out there who acknowledges that races and subraces exist and are not just the figments of raciallists imaginations





My guess is that you other people on this forum are already aware of the fact that the higher rate of sleaziness and criminality among sub-saharan africans is the result of the hospitably warm temperature and the abundant food supply, which eliminates the necessity of dedicated social organization.


I don't think that you'll find much argument here opposing this statement. ;)



For a years I have paid attention to the character traits of a person in
comparison to their appearance, and physical traits that often occur together, mostly facial features. I have noticed many of such correlations.


It is interesting, isn't it. It seems to me as well that some rough correlations can be made....




Due to the fact that I live in the United States, and most people in person and in the non-fiction media of said country are of european origin, I have mostly paid attention to european subraces and know most about them, so only european subraces are listed here.


This is rapidly changing. :| But, I understand your point.




By the way, I personally am not a europoid. I hope that you do not take offense to your subraces being studied by an'outsider'.


No, I've no problem with this. Actually, it might provide us with another perspective that we might not otherwise have.

Based on your earlier comment about sub-Saharan Negroids, I can assume that of this type you are not. ;) Perhaps you are of Asian origin...?






The following are the correlations that I have observed between character
traits and specific sets of physical traits, which define specific subraces. Most of the sub-racial names are clearly improvised, due to lacking official names:


A fine list.




the more civilized/empathic subraces:

1. aryan:
physical features: relatively light build, light tan skin, generally rectangular facial features, rectangular forehead and rectangular cheekbones, flat eyebrows situated adjacent to narrow eyes, defined nose bridge, angled jaw that is narrow in the front, diagonal cheek indentations; these types occur sporadically throughout europe, the middle east, and india; most likely originated in southern russia, according to archeological evidence


The culture and language-bearing Indo-Europeans, I presume. Kurganids, Corded Ware types, horse-riding, axe wielding denizens of the Steppes in years gone by.



2. nostalgic cro-magnon:
physical features: like all cro-magnon types, these types have a relatively flat face, diagonal crease lines on the cheeks, and relatively prominent philtrum ridges (between the nose and upper lip); these types are distinguished by their prominent oblique vertical fold of and outside of the lips, seemingly drooping upper cheek flesh, and an upper outer eye border that is constricted; light to medium build; these types occur both among europeans and native amerindians, as they are of the same origin; cro-magnons in general have most likely originated in and/or near the altai mountains of central asia


There I am! ;)




3. pale coastal european:
physical features: light to medium build, pale skin suggestive of a cloudy and/or forest geography; sometimes reddish lips, somewhat receding/angled forehead, subtle convex bone arc under the eyebrows, facial features are generally rounded around the edges; jaw is angled, narrow in the front, and substantially recessed in both front-to-back and vertical dimensions; most likely originated in western europe, in a cloudy coastal region.


Sounds like the North Atlantid and Atlanto-Med types to me. Often associated with haplotype R1B if my memory serves me correctly.




4. bony west european:
physical features: usually a light or medium build; pale skin; convex bony nose, jaw is recessed relative to the cheekbones, front of the jaw is flat and of medium width, front of the mouth and chin region sometimes has a narrow hexagonal shape, eyes are narrow and angled downward toward the outside, generally bony face, thick eyebrows, eyebrows adjacent to the eyes, sometimes a deep jaw; these types are most common in spain and the british isles, most likely originated in a warm cloudy region of spain due to the combination of pale skin and mediterranean-adapted bony facial features (to dissipate heat); it can be speculated that warm but cloudy climate might be indirectly causative of good character, due to environmental effects.


Bell Beaker Dinarid type, maybe....?




5. space-tooth northwest european:
physical features: usually a light build; relatively pale skin; distinctive front of jaw that is projecting, relatively narrow, and rounded in the front-to-back dimension; teeth are straight but there is significant space between them; nose is distinctive, with the lower soft part projecting forward from the upper hard part; facial features are generally semi-rounded; this type probably originated in or near ireland or sweden


I'm not sure if I can relate this description with any of the recognized Europid subtype in the various taxonomic schemes used on this forum.... Perhaps you could post a picture of someone who might fit this bill?




6. neat northwest european:
physical features: narrow eyes, outer eyes are especially narrow, small lips, upper lip has a downward point in the middle, sometimes vertical lines of creases where the edge of the mouth meets the cheek, pale skin, relatively long face, pointed nose; this type most likely originated in ireland


Most likley the Keltic Nordic type....






1. dominant cro-magnon:
physical features: like all cro-magnon types, these types have a relatively flat face, diagonal crease lines on the cheeks, and relatively prominent philtrum ridges (between the nose and upper lip); these types are distinguished by the upward prominence at the center of their upper lip between the philtrum ridges, the great width and flatness of their mouth region (more so than other cro-magnon types), eyebrows that are bushy and somewhat raised on the outside, and somewhat buggy eyes; usually a medium build; cro-magnons in general have most likely originated in and/or near the altai mountains of central
asia


Again--not sure what this is. One distinguishing trait of the Cro-Mag types are not "buggy eyes" but instead, deeply recessed eyes, heavy, overhanging brows and boney orbits and a rather "hooded" look to the upper eyes.




2. flat fatty face:
physical features: fat heavy build; face is flat and fatty, particularly with fatty lower cheeks; face may be round or squarish, fat may be flat or more bulbous, lips are sometimes thin and downturned; this type is most common in england, ireland, and germany; there are multiple distinct subtypes of this general type; particularly, there is a british type with pale skin, flat facial fat, and thin downturned lips, and there is an irish type with a round head and bulbous facial fat


Sounds like Brunns, Borrebys and perhaps Baltids. The killer Bs. ;)




3. fish face:
physical features: usually a light build, cheekbones have little indentation in the front relative to the forehead, eyes are shallowly-set and buggy; hair is orange or light brown, forehead is rounded and receding; this type seems to be common in both scotland and russia


Not sure at all.....




4. hollow flat face:
physical features: usually a medium build; flat, plain-looking face; rounded nose that is slightly upturned, shallow-set buggy eyes, border of the face is rounded from the front view, eyebrows are bushy; this type exists among both europeans and amerindians, due either to common origin or parallel trait emergence


Alpinids? East Baltids?




5. convex face:
physical features: usually a light build; vertically convex face, receding
forehead, face can range from short to long, mouth is wide, eyebrows are
bushy and arced, hair is usually black; this type is most common among italians


Dinaricized Mediterranean perhaps....




There are most likely other subraces that belong on either list, as I have
identified some other correlations between single traits, the point being that the list is not necessarily complete. I may or may not continue to conduct this research.


Please share with us your observations. Also, I would suggest studying some of the classification schemes theorized by physical anthropologists over the years: Coon, Lundman, Denniker, Baker, Czekanowski, Biasutti, etc.... Perhaps what they have proposed for subtypes may correspond with your observed physical types.


cheers. ;)