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Evolved
Thursday, August 21st, 2003, 08:56 PM
Because Polak asked so nicely (and because he's so cute :emb ) here is a thread about Tatars.

http://www.tatarlar.ru/allfotoarhiv.html
http://www.tatarlar.ru/tklan/photo/index.html
http://www.tatarlar.ru/photoalbum.html
http://www.tatarlar.ru/hanuma.html
http://www.tatarlar.ru/konkursfoto.html

Some of them are acceptable, others are predominantly mongoloid and definitely not. A bit like the Sámi, though the Sámi may be better off racially.

Here are some nice looking Tatars.

http://www.tatarlar.ru/tklan/photo/chicago_n.jpg
http://www.tatarlar.ru/tklan/photo/chicago_n.jpg
http://www.tatarlar.ru/photo/elm_marat.jpeg
http://www.tatarlar.ru/photo/elm_marat.jpeg
http://tatfoto.narod.ru/women/spb/hanuma/a-135.jpg

Odd looking specimen: :eek
http://tatfoto.narod.ru/men/spb/hanuma/e-85.jpg

(maybe for the narod.ru links you need to right click and "Save As" because they don't always show up.)

Nothing wrong here: :birds
http://www.tatarlar.ru/photo/05.jpeg
http://www.tatarlar.ru/photo/05.jpeg
http://www.tatarlar.ru/photo/04.jpeg
http://www.tatarlar.ru/photo/04.jpeg

Ewergrin
Saturday, August 23rd, 2003, 09:56 AM
[QUOTE=ladygoeth33]

Nothing wrong here: :birds
QUOTE]


Except for the 5 other guys dressed in the same manner as him, pulling a mattress out into the woods for some "fun." :jk

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Saturday, August 23rd, 2003, 10:41 PM
Nice collection of Tartar pics :) The one in the bathing suit looks quite asiatic from the side. I guess the flattened profile kind of gives it away, eh?

But this guy hiding in the background caught my attention more than the one in the speedo lol What a nicely defined jaw *sigh* He's not lurking around in any other photos, is he? hehehe

torrent
Sunday, August 24th, 2003, 05:01 PM
Nothing wrong here? :headbang

The mongoloid influences are distinct, much as in Gosselaar's case.
POSTER NO: 546

Language replacement in Turkic speaking populations demonstrated by maternal and paternal lineages and autosomal Alu insertions

1Vladimir Kharkov, 1Vadim Stepanov, 2Marina Bermisheva, 3Vladimir Orekhov, 1Maria Golubenko, 3Zhanna Kozhekbaeva, 1Maria Spiridonova, 1Irina Khitrinskaya, 2Elza Khusnutdinova, 3Nick Yankovsky, 1Valery Puzyrev
1Institute of Medical Genetics, Nab. Ushayky 10, 634050, Tomsk, Russia, 2Institute of Biochemistry and Genetics, Ufa, Russia, 3Vavilov Institute of General Genetics, Moscow, Russia

Based on the analysis of paternal (Y chromosome) and maternal (mtDNA) lineages we demonstrate the phenomenon of language replacement in several populations living in European and Asian parts of former Soviet Union and speaking languages of Turkic group of Altaic language family. Turkic languages spread presumably from the Altai region to East and West with waves of Mongoloid nomads penetrating the Eurasian steppe belt from first millenium B.C. until the Middle Ages. For mtDNA lineages this migrations along with more ancient population movements from West to East formed a gradient of East-Eurasian ('mongoloid') lineages from East to West of North Eurasia. In Tatar population living in the Volga-Ural region and representing the most numerous Turkic speaking group in Russia, the frequency of East-Eurasian mtDNA lineages (haplogroups M [including CZ], A, B, F, D, G, N9) comprise only 15% of maternal gene pool. With respect to their genes Tatars are much closer to their Slavonic and Finno-Ugric neighbors than to other Turkic speaking populations. In Central Asian Caucasoid Uzbeks the East-Eurasian part of mtDNA lineages is 43%, but they share most part of Y chromosome gene pool as well as autosomal genes, as documented by polymorphic Alu insertions, with their Indo-European neighbors (Tajiks). In case of Uzbek population language replacement took place on the background of partial gene replacement visible at least in maternal lineages. Thus, in Tatars and Uzbeks we see the different degree of 'dilution' of Mongoloid genes in dominating West Eurasian genetic background. The degree of eastern admixture is also different for different types of genetic markers (i.e., maternal lineages, paternal lineages and autosomal gene pool). East Siberian Yakuts represent an example of language replacement within the Altaic language famly. With respect to their male lineages, where haplogroup 16 (Tat C) is dominating, Turkic speaking Yakut population fall into the common cluster with non-Turkic Altaic neighboring Siberian populations (Buriat and Evenk), whereas Turkic groups are characterized by the high frequency of HG3 and by the different frequency spectrum of autosomal Alus.

goidelicwarrior
Wednesday, August 27th, 2003, 01:15 PM
Nothing wrong here? :headbang

The mongoloid influences are distinct, much as in Gosselaar's case. and SF is accused of accepting borderline types ? i wonder what this is?? :scared

Milesian
Wednesday, August 27th, 2003, 05:52 PM
and SF is accused of accepting borderline types ? i wonder what this is?? :scared

Do you have a grieviance about this site, goidelicwarrior?

Evolved
Wednesday, August 27th, 2003, 07:03 PM
His face doesn't look too different from mine, actually. Just a rounder and little thicker nose. It's not a clear pic, I can't tell if he has eyefolds or his upper eyelids are thick. I still like him. :drool

goidelicwarrior
Thursday, August 28th, 2003, 09:01 AM
Do you have a grieviance about this site, goidelicwarrior? not at all. its a great site... it was just a question... I think SF makes a lot of good as do this site.. we need all the forums to " erwache " the European spirit against the menace against our culture and folk....

European border....
:climb

Polak
Friday, August 29th, 2003, 11:36 AM
Well, there's some funny ones among those Tatars. Not sure if that's because of the mixing between Caucasoid and Mongoloid, or just natural and social selection. Probably both.

And yes, thank you, I am cute. But I'm gonna post a better pic when I scan one, cos that last one made me look like a right old boozer. :beer

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Sunday, August 31st, 2003, 04:10 AM
Nice collection of Tartar pics :)

Tartars LOL Just noticed this. Everytime I think of them I think of the seafood sauce, and I can't help but spell it as "tartar" :grin

Evolved
Sunday, August 31st, 2003, 04:23 AM
:naughty Tatar sauce...*drool* :nut

Loki
Sunday, August 31st, 2003, 12:22 PM
:naughty Tatar sauce...*drool* :nut

I guess for some, a little spot of Mongoloid admixture to the brew is appealing. ;)

Tore
Sunday, August 31st, 2003, 08:53 PM
Relative Frequencies of Europid and Mongoloid Maternal Lineages in Peoples of Russia

Thanks for the info, Thorburn.

Now, if only data of Paternal Mongoloid influence could be acquired...

It seems as though the Tatars were excluded from this study:

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v67n6/002082/002082.html

ScotchTape
Monday, September 1st, 2003, 01:47 AM
Marat Safin, the tennis player is a tatar.
The website safinator.com has pictures of him with his family. His mother is very mongoloid in appearance more so than the other members in the family.

Evolved
Monday, September 1st, 2003, 03:16 AM
Liliya Cheban seems ok.

http://www.tatarlar.ru/tklan/photo/lola_n.jpg
http://www.tatarlar.ru/tklan/photo/lola1_1.jpg

Adolph Kevorkian
Tuesday, September 30th, 2003, 04:02 AM
http://www.karlphoto.com/father.jpg

Here's an image of a turkic speaking Volga Tatar from China that later moved to Turkey.
Explain how do these tatars look like this?

Also in the 80's, 81% of Russia was said to be russian the rest mongoloid/other. since the Russian population has been declining and those guys breed like rabbits what is the tatar-insert other turkic-mongol tribe name population in Russia now?

Polak
Tuesday, September 30th, 2003, 04:57 AM
http://www.karlphoto.com/father.jpg

Here's an image of a turkic speaking Volga Tatar from China that later moved to Turkey.
Explain how do these tatars look like this?

Also in the 80's, 81% of Russia was said to be russian the rest mongoloid/other. since the Russian population has been declining and those guys breed like rabbits what is the tatar-insert other turkic-mongol tribe name population in Russia now?


Tatars are originally Finns.

And Finns are closely related to the northern European types that once stretched from Ireland to western China.

The only reason many Finns (and Tatars) look semi-Mongol is because they mixed with Mongols near the Arctic and in Central Asia, when the Mongols started migrating west.

Finns were originally a Nordic/East Baltic like population. Very blond and often long headed.

So were the Slavs actually, and Germanics. Except the Germanics were obviously more Borreby than East Baltic.

Adolph Kevorkian
Tuesday, September 30th, 2003, 05:07 AM
Aren't Ugro-Finns a separate "tribe" that predate tatars that migrated to Scandinavia from Altai?
Aren't tatars with such features just a result of mixing with Slavs?

Volga Bulgars in the 7th century. After the seperation, Volga Bulgars mixed with Kumans in the 11th century, and later with the Turkic members of the Altun Ordu (Golden Army). Therefore, today while Danube Bulgars have mostly Slavic Blood, Volga Bulgars are also have urkic blood. Whatever the mixture was, it must have been very light on Mongolians, since today most of the Volga Bulgarians look more European than Asian. By the way, it was Volga Bulgars who converted the Kumans and later the Golden Army members into the Islam religion.

The Volga-Bulgas and the Khazars(R.I.P) had an identical language and it is thought they where racial brothers both of whom sprang from the mysterious "blue turks". I also believe they shared the custom of killing their Kagan when he met a certain age.
Gok Turks translates as Blue Turks, colors were used to identify the geographical location by the old Turks. Gok = blue was for north, ak = white meant east, kara = black stood for west, and sari (sary) = yellow described south. Like Kara Huns or Ak Huns did not describe the look of the people but meant Western Huns or Eastern Huns.


Tatars are originally Finns.

And Finns are closely related to the northern European types that once stretched from Ireland to western China.

The only reason many Finns (and Tatars) look semi-Mongol is because they mixed with Mongols near the Arctic and in Central Asia, when the Mongols started migrating west.

Finns were originally a Nordic/East Baltic like population. Very blond and often long headed.

So were the Slavs actually, and Germanics. Except the Germanics were obviously more Borreby than East Baltic.

The greatest Slav nation of them all, Kiev Rus was forged by Rurik, a Viking no?

Polak
Tuesday, September 30th, 2003, 05:31 AM
Rurik was a Viking, but he wasn't Scandinavian. There were Slavic Vikings too, and many mixed Slavic/Germanic/Finnish Vikings.

And yes, Finnish tribes migrated to the Baltic, but so what? Many stayed behind near the Volga.

Tatars are a mix of many people, but they're mostly of Turkocised Finnish stock.







Aren't Ugro-Finns a separate "tribe" that predate tatars that migrated to Scandinavia from Altai?
Aren't tatars with such features just a result of mixing with Slavs?

Volga Bulgars in the 7th century. After the seperation, Volga Bulgars mixed with Kumans in the 11th century, and later with the Turkic members of the Altun Ordu (Golden Army). Therefore, today while Danube Bulgars have mostly Slavic Blood, Volga Bulgars are also have urkic blood. Whatever the mixture was, it must have been very light on Mongolians, since today most of the Volga Bulgarians look more European than Asian. By the way, it was Volga Bulgars who converted the Kumans and later the Golden Army members into the Islam religion.

The Volga-Bulgas and the Khazars(R.I.P) had an identical language and it is thought they where racial brothers both of whom sprang from the mysterious "blue turks". I also believe they shared the custom of killing their Kagan when he met a certain age.
Gok Turks translates as Blue Turks, colors were used to identify the geographical location by the old Turks. Gok = blue was for north, ak = white meant east, kara = black stood for west, and sari (sary) = yellow described south. Like Kara Huns or Ak Huns did not describe the look of the people but meant Western Huns or Eastern Huns.



The greatest Slav nation of them all, Kiev Rus was forged by Rurik, a Viking no?

Polak
Tuesday, September 30th, 2003, 05:35 AM
And why do you say Kievan Rus was the greatest Slavic nation of them all?

They achieved nothing.

The Polish Commonwealth was more powerful, more wealthy, and the biggest nation in Europe.

It also saved Europe from the Turks.

Then we had Russia, which was ruled from Moscow, not Kiev. Need I say more?

Adolph Kevorkian
Tuesday, September 30th, 2003, 05:38 AM
And why do you say Kievan Rus was the greatest Slavic nation of them all?

They achieved nothing.

The Polish Commonwealth was more powerful, more wealthy, and the biggest nation in Europe.

It also saved Europe from the Turks.

Then we had Russia, which was ruled from Moscow, not Kiev. Need I say more?

I don't know. For their battles I guess and my fascination with Byzantine era.
They stopped Khazars, Mongols so many others.
I have a nice reproduction of Glazunov showing Bogatyrs in massive battle with the Mongols.

torrent
Tuesday, September 30th, 2003, 04:46 PM
Tatars are originally Finns.

And Finns are closely related to the northern European types that once stretched from Ireland to western China.

The only reason many Finns (and Tatars) look semi-Mongol is because they mixed with Mongols near the Arctic and in Central Asia, when the Mongols started migrating west.

Finns were originally a Nordic/East Baltic like population. Very blond and often long headed.

So were the Slavs actually, and Germanics. Except the Germanics were obviously more Borreby than East Baltic.
hello polak,
definietly no, tatars are no way originally finnic. not even a bit related. the high frequency of the asiatic genes in finnic people has a single expalantion the yakuts are a blend of turks and various paleosibirids. the genes asiatic shared by finnic are the original paleosibirid genes. and it is highly controversal whether saamis are not mongoloid or an adaptation.
the orginla finnic is a saami they were so much mixed with sweedes that they looked like swedish people it is only after the nationalism in finlad arose the finnic people began speaking finnish before that they widely used scandinavian instead of it only after schools who teach finnish were opened the mostly scandinavain mixed people began to be finnish.
kokturks mean celestial turks the ancient turkish mythology tells us about a satan called yerlik (yer is ground) he was exiled to a water flooded world and first turk is tarkhun eme. it is an panteistic animistic religion a celestial soul who is behind everything expresses himself through annimistic gods.
according to chinese the celstial turks descend from the ashina(wolf family) who are a part of the huns. bahaettin ogel who can read chinese tells us that the blue turks were a part of the huns and they tried to make a new gathering. later they migrated to altai and worked as iron workers for avars who are turks too. this area is completely turkish and the tribal names are just the ancestral family names.
the paleosibirids who share the same genes with the finnic live in various tundras and are very rare in number. an original paleosibirid is highly mongoloid.
the turkicized finns are paleosibirids. the red heaired udmurts are really interesting.
as a whole tatars are descendents or various turks, kipchaks, khazars, nogays, kumikhs, bulgars. as a whole tataria is just the north of kazakhstan. so what do we have for a finnish, dolichomeso nordics or exclusively upper paleolithic people or like samoyedic a mongoloid people.
tatar language decends from caghatay language ab eastern turkish dialect. best regards

Prodigal Son
Tuesday, September 30th, 2003, 08:12 PM
http://www.karlphoto.com/father.jpg

Here's an image of a turkic speaking Volga Tatar from China that later moved to Turkey.
Explain how do these tatars look like this?

As Polak pointed out, the Tatars, contrary to popular misconception are not the descendants of Mongoloid invaders. They are Finns who've absorbed a large amount of Turkic blood and adopted Turkic speech. Actually, there is an enormous amount of phenotypical variation among Tatars, from almost fully Mongoloid-looking individuals to Northern European-looking ones, like this guy and Marat Safin. Gnerally, the Mongoloid element decreases on a Northeast to Southwest gradient. Whereas Siberian Tatars and Tatars living in Bashkria are predominantly Mongoloid, a large number of Kazan Tatars are Europid, indistinguishable from surrounding Russians, save for their language.


Also in the 80's, 81% of Russia was said to be russian the rest mongoloid/other. since the Russian population has been declining and those guys breed like rabbits what is the tatar-insert other turkic-mongol tribe name population in Russia now?

The census says that Russia is still 81% Russian, but this is obviously a bowl of crock designed to cover up the population catastrophe that is currently taking place. Furthermore, the census allows individuals to put an ethnicity of their choice on their census form; a Bashkir, Kalmyck, or Jew can have 'Russian' in his passport, and would be counted as a 'Russian' by the census. For instance my cousin's wife, who is an Erzya Mordvin (racially Nordic) has 'Russian' in her passport.

torrent
Tuesday, September 30th, 2003, 08:49 PM
As Polak pointed out, the Tatars, contrary to popular misconception are not the descendants of Mongoloid invaders. They are Finns who've absorbed a large amount of Turkic blood and adopted Turkic speech. Actually, there is an enormous amount of phenotypical variation among Tatars, from almost fully Mongoloid-looking individuals to Northern European-looking ones, like this guy and Marat Safin. Gnerally, the Mongoloid element decreases on a Northeast to Southwest gradient. Whereas Siberian Tatars and Tatars living in Bashkria are predominantly Mongoloid, a large number of Kazan Tatars are Europid, indistinguishable from surrounding Russians, save for their language.



The census says that Russia is still 81% Russian, but this is obviously a bowl of crock designed to cover up the population catastrophe that is currently taking place. Furthermore, the census allows individuals to put an ethnicity of their choice on their census form; a Bashkir, Kalmyck, or Jew can have 'Russian' in his passport, and would be counted as a 'Russian' by the census. For instance my cousin's wife, who is an Erzya Mordvin (racially Nordic) has 'Russian' in her passport.
i will be only stating that russians in kazan are new immigrators most of whom are sent there by stalin and later Brejnev. as Ross have stated before they not mixed with each other so much by the way Ross is typical kurganid he is even a bit alpinized.
best regards

Ramses
Wednesday, October 1st, 2003, 06:53 PM
First of all; the tatars are very mixed. Some are completely caucasoid, descendants of finnougrians. Others are turkic, whereas some are almost completely mongoloid. They have a very mixed background.
and the byzantines didn't stop the mongols, they didn't even fought each other :D

/DK M

Vojvoda
Wednesday, October 1st, 2003, 07:01 PM
First of all; the tatars are very mixed. Some are completely caucasoid, descendants of finnougrians. Others are turkic, whereas some are almost completely mongoloid. They have a very mixed background.
and the byzantines didn't stop the mongols, they didn't even fought each other :D

/DK M

What 'mongols' are you referring to? If you mean the Avars, the Byzantines, or should I say slavic mercenaries, did fight them.Most were 'wiped out',some were probably assimilated , others 'retreated' to the many islands in the Adriatic Sea.

Evolved
Wednesday, October 15th, 2003, 03:44 AM
These are Tatars from different regions of Tatarstan, there are Dinarics, Turanids, Alpines, Armenoids, Ladogans, and maybe 2 or 3 Nordish individuals. Hard to classify them with their hats on. :)

http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/18.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/22.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/26.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/20.jpg

http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/21.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/28.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/13.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/24.jpg

http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/14.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/08.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/15.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/06.jpg

http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/30.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/09.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/10.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/23.jpg

http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/12.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/04.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/16.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/17.jpg

http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/27.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/03.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/11.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/05.jpg http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/25.jpg

Pomor
Wednesday, October 15th, 2003, 06:55 AM
These are Tatars from different regions of Tatarstan, there are Dinarics, Turanids, Alpines, Armenoids, Ladogans, and maybe 2 or 3 Nordish individuals. Hard to classify them with their hats on. :)


This one seems to be Nordic -


http://eng.e-islam.ru/www/imgs/imam_foto/04.jpg

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 15th, 2003, 09:12 PM
Marat Safin, the tennis player is a tatar.
The website safinator.com has pictures of him with his family. His mother is very mongoloid in appearance more so than the other members in the family.

Indeed.

http://prod.bsis.bellsouth.net/coDataImages/p/Groups/112/112445/folders/89094/600642family.jpg

Lala
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 04:08 AM
All those men in turbans and hats and all look SO different! How can they even be called Tatars? Are they really that assimilated?

Klegutati
Sunday, March 26th, 2006, 10:36 PM
Does anyone know the average height of the Turkic peoples, primarily Eastern European Turkics (Crimean Tatars)?:|

Ergenekon
Wednesday, November 15th, 2006, 03:20 PM
Tatars are originally Finns.

Not Ture.. They are mixture of Turkish Tribes of Volga Bulgars and Kıpchaks.

Oswiu
Thursday, November 16th, 2006, 01:31 AM
Not Ture.. They are mixture of Turkish Tribes of Volga Bulgars and Kıpchaks.
Look at the map! And think about harems...
Tatarstan is surrounded by Finno-Ugrics. Erzya, Moksha, Mishchers, Muroma, Merya, Mari, Udmurt, Komi, Mansi, Magyars, Khanty...

The Kipchaks shoved the Bulgars aside - the Chuvash are thus the more direct descendants of the latter [who had already mixed with their local neighbours themselves].

Ergenekon
Thursday, November 16th, 2006, 10:05 AM
Look at the map! And think about harems...
Tatarstan is surrounded by Finno-Ugrics. Erzya, Moksha, Mishchers, Muroma, Merya, Mari, Udmurt, Komi, Mansi, Magyars, Khanty...

The Kipchaks shoved the Bulgars aside - the Chuvash are thus the more direct descendants of the latter [who had already mixed with their local neighbours themselves].

Thanks, I know the map, by the way Mishchers are not Finno-Ugrics just christianified Tatars.

Harem was a privileg of ruling class, like French or English kings or nobles had several metresses moslem rulers had their silly harems.

The mixture of Tatrs with their neighbours are not more than anglo-indian marriages I think.

Oswiu
Thursday, November 16th, 2006, 03:32 PM
Thanks, I know the map, by the way Mishchers are not Finno-Ugrics just christianified Tatars.
I read where they are also thought to be connected with the Magyars.
Or is Meshcheryak a different name?

THIS is the people I'm talking about;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meshchera
Perhaps you're confusing Kriashens with Mischars with Meshchers?!? Maybe they are all connected, maybe some of them are, maybe none!

Whoever put this on Wikipedia thinks they're the same;


Mişär Tatars
Mişär Tatars (or Mishers) are a group of Tatars speaking a dialect of the Kazan Tatar language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazan_Tatar_language). They are descendants of Kipchaks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipchaks) in the Middle Oka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oka) and Meschiora where they mixed with the local Finno-Ugric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric) tribes and Russians. Nowadays they live in Tambov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambov_Oblast), Penza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penza_Oblast), Ryazan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryazan_Oblast) oblasts of Russia and in Mordovia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordovia). They lived near and along the Volga River, in Tatarstan.


The mixture of Tatrs with their neighbours are not more than anglo-indian marriages I think.
So every Tatar in Batu Khan's army had his wife sat on the back of his horse in the ride from Mongolia?

Ergenekon
Monday, November 20th, 2006, 11:02 AM
So every Tatar in Batu Khan's army had his wife sat on the back of his horse in the ride from Mongolia?

For sure not:D

When mongol army came most soldiers of the army was anyway Turkish from Central Asia from different Turkic tribes, Mongols were minority. Turks were represented in Mongol Empire not less than 60-70% in army.

Batu was the ruler also some Mongol commanders. But the Kazan Area, Astrahan and "todays" steppes of Ukrain was full with Kıpchak Turks.

Oswiu
Monday, November 20th, 2006, 02:37 PM
For sure not:D

When mongol army came most soldiers of the army was anyway Turkish from Central Asia from different Turkic tribes, Mongols were minority. Turks were represented in Mongol Empire not less than 60-70% in army.

Batu was the ruler also some Mongol commanders. But the Kazan Area, Astrahan and "todays" steppes of Ukrain was full with Kıpchak Turks.
You are broadly correct - the Kangol or Kipchak made up a considerable part of the army. But the Tatars [originally from eastern Mongolia/Manchuria] were there in some numbers too, making up the front line in the battle formation, I believe. The Kipchak may have had a large Sarmatian substrate too [and perhaps even Ugric].
But don't forget the [partly Russified] Turkic peoples the armies found already in the Pontic and Caspian Steppe - Polovtsy, Uzi, Khazars, Bulgars, Turki, - these peoples made up a substantial part of the Golden Horde Tatar population, and even became powerful enough to set up a rebel from their number, against the legitimate Chingisids - Mamai.