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View Full Version : "WTO - Evolution of Human Society ?"



Utgard-Loki
Tuesday, August 19th, 2003, 01:46 PM
"In modern Society, with Global Trade many Worker are
forced to become more and more mobile, Borders
dissapere and the Days of National Goverments are
fading quickly, the WTO ( World Trade Organisation)
wantīs to minimize the Power of Nations for the Benefit
of the Industrial Powers. Even Ideas will become International
patented. The Guru of modern Neoliberalism is "Milton Friedman",
his Idea is an allpowerful Global Industry with no Need to pay
any charges or Taxes to National Goverments, but also with no
Duty to provide Workers with social or Healthcare ( stays by the
Countrys ). The Idea of Neolibaralism was at the Beginning in the
late 19th. Century meant as a Modell for Innercountry Trade and
never tought to be International.

China has now joined up with the WTO, i donīt want to
imagine the Results. In the Asian Finance-Crisis the WTO commanded
China to produce more Steel, as Result tousands of Americans
lost their Jobs... (and there are many more Examples how
the WTO Tactics do harm.)

Interesting Note : The WTO is Hierachic, there are about nine
Grades and there is no voting for Jobs...
So the WTO is dubious also, because she has the Function
of a Global Government of Trade Issues but is not ruled
by voted Officials of any Country, ( of course are there
Ministers of National Governments in the WTO, but they
either do just serve as Embassadors of Trade or have
found a secound Job there... )

The WTO wantīs to be seen as a big Brother who
helps the Goverments in Cases of Conflic ( see
www.WTO.org ) trough punising bad Guys with
Trade Embargos. When the Local Goverments
have lost most of their Influence, the People
of tomorrow might become modern Slaves
ruled by a International Force of Money which was elected
by itself.

-------------------------------------------------------

Because of the Complexity of the Issue Asparuk and
I wanted to discuss the Changes in Human Society that
lead to the Phanomen of Global Trade and the WTO.
We thought that the evolution of " abstract Values "
might also be relevant.

If you have something to say about WTO, Global Trade
Evolving Human Society, or anything related you
are invited to post it in this Tread.

Next comes a Summary about Serfdom
which Asparuk posted,
related to the System of Lehenswesen
which was common in Middle Ages Europe :

Servus (lt),Servage fr
Ýt is a term relating to law. Specificly, in the western history
the dependence status of middle age farmers to the land and the
lords. There is the monopoly of the hereditery ownership of the land
and against it there were the more or less hereditery, dependent and
continous situation of being tenants.
Nulle tere sans seigneur no land without a segnor. The villagers
used to harvest the small proportions of the lord's land. They used
to supply their own needs from their own harvest. These small
businesses were within the covering ownership of the landlord and
supplied continous flow of the profit to the landlord as rent without
a free agreement. The tenenats were dependent to the authority of the
landlord politically militarial or legally. in this frame the
mobility of the sefs were limited. All of the serfs had to do extra
work without any count on the parts of the segnor where the serf did
not manage, corvee, and they had to use the windmill or any other
tool on the segnors land. Usually serfs were divided into two. The
serfs and freemen. Usually freemen meant nonserf and lack of the
negativities of the serf. The serf were more tightly bond to the
land, they had to take the permission of their landlord for moving or
marrying or changing the job or could not order their inheritance.
They might be subjected to perhaps harder behaviour and because they
could not go to the kingdom trials they had less chance against the
arbitrary behaviour of the landlord. Legally they were the men of the
landlord (homme de corps) and their relief was affranchissement. They
had a private legal situation of the remnants of slavery in addition
to tenantness.

More by myself will follow soon

torrent
Thursday, August 21st, 2003, 08:25 PM
"In modern Society, with Global Trade many Worker are
forced to become more and more mobile, Borders
dissapere and the Days of National Goverments are
fading quickly, the WTO ( World Trade Organisation)
wantīs to minimize the Power of Nations for the Benefit
of the Industrial Powers. Even Ideas will become International
patented. The Guru of modern Neoliberalism is "Milton Friedman",
his Idea is an allpowerful Global Industry with no Need to pay
any charges or Taxes to National Goverments, but also with no
Duty to provide Workers with social or Healthcare ( stays by the
Countrys ). The Idea of Neolibaralism was at the Beginning in the
late 19th. Century meant as a Modell for Innercountry Trade and
never tought to be International.

China has now joined up with the WTO, i donīt want to
imagine the Results. In the Asian Finance-Crisis the WTO commanded
China to produce more Steel, as Result tousands of Americans
lost their Jobs... (and there are many more Examples how
the WTO Tactics do harm.)

Interesting Note : The WTO is Hierachic, there are about nine
Grades and there is no voting for Jobs...
So the WTO is dubious also, because she has the Function
of a Global Government of Trade Issues but is not ruled
by voted Officials of any Country, ( of course are there
Ministers of National Governments in the WTO, but they
either do just serve as Embassadors of Trade or have
found a secound Job there... )

The WTO wantīs to be seen as a big Brother who
helps the Goverments in Cases of Conflic ( see
www.WTO.org ) trough punising bad Guys with
Trade Embargos. When the Local Goverments
have lost most of their Influence, the People
of tomorrow might become modern Slaves
ruled by a International Force of Money which was elected
by itself.

-------------------------------------------------------

Because of the Complexity of the Issue Asparuk and
I wanted to discuss the Changes in Human Society that
lead to the Phanomen of Global Trade and the WTO.
We thought that the evolution of " abstract Values "
might also be relevant.

If you have something to say about WTO, Global Trade
Evolving Human Society, or anything related you
are invited to post it in this Tread.

Next comes a Summary about Serfdom
which Asparuk posted,
related to the System of Lehenswesen
which was common in Middle Ages Europe :

Servus (lt),Servage fr
Ýt is a term relating to law. Specificly, in the western history
the dependence status of middle age farmers to the land and the
lords. There is the monopoly of the hereditery ownership of the land
and against it there were the more or less hereditery, dependent and
continous situation of being tenants.
Nulle tere sans seigneur no land without a segnor. The villagers
used to harvest the small proportions of the lord's land. They used
to supply their own needs from their own harvest. These small
businesses were within the covering ownership of the landlord and
supplied continous flow of the profit to the landlord as rent without
a free agreement. The tenenats were dependent to the authority of the
landlord politically militarial or legally. in this frame the
mobility of the sefs were limited. All of the serfs had to do extra
work without any count on the parts of the segnor where the serf did
not manage, corvee, and they had to use the windmill or any other
tool on the segnors land. Usually serfs were divided into two. The
serfs and freemen. Usually freemen meant nonserf and lack of the
negativities of the serf. The serf were more tightly bond to the
land, they had to take the permission of their landlord for moving or
marrying or changing the job or could not order their inheritance.
They might be subjected to perhaps harder behaviour and because they
could not go to the kingdom trials they had less chance against the
arbitrary behaviour of the landlord. Legally they were the men of the
landlord (homme de corps) and their relief was affranchissement. They
had a private legal situation of the remnants of slavery in addition
to tenantness.

More by myself will follow soon

hi utgard-loki,
thank you for starting the thread. i will ,here, be posting about the state style of aztecas which i think you might find interesting. later perhaps we may discuss about lycurgos, and platon's ideal state. i do not know how to reach WTO from this distance in time but we will handle it by time and i will be looking for your posts which i find really interesting.
best regards
the true origin of aztecas are away from my sources but they may have
had practiced hunting and gathering untill they came to middle america
from north after the collapse of toltec culture by a migration of
people. culturally aztecas are identical to toltecs but speak
nahua.aztec country was a teological military state. the people lived
tied to patriarchal clans. the country had four divisions and each
division had 20 clans. each division chose represantatives for a
concule.and each divison chose a first man. among
these four first men one was chosen as the head of the armies and
another one was chosen to govern politically. though the consule had
the power to dismiss these chosen men it never used this potential.
there was a tax free aristocrat class, a warrior class, and in the
cities there were cratsmen and agriculterers and there was a trademen
class who had the privilege for slave trade and there was a caste of
slaves workers but they were taken after with care. these castes
preserved the horizontal movements. the best way to rise was heroic
actions in the war. the religious men were usually chosen from the
aristocrat class.
agriculture was excellent they could produce chocolates and they
smoked tobacco only in fests or holy days. they did not use money
they used bartering and the rest of the prize was paid by cacao
grains. they were excellent miners and craftmen too.

basically there were evil and good forces but many animistic gods.
one of them was a warrior one who drank the blood of his enemies as
well as god of rain. for the stability of system people were educated
untill they reached 15. men were not allowed to be married before 20
and ladies were not allowed to mary untill 16.

in 1519 their capital state was inhabited by 140.000 people and was
occupying more than 13 km2.

Utgard-Loki
Tuesday, September 30th, 2003, 03:31 AM
Thatīs really interesting, alltough i did
know that the Aztecs had a high culture i
didnīt know they had such a highly developed
Political System.

I did some Research on my own and found out that
the Class of the Farmers had more Rights than in
feudalistic Europe. If they were working on the grounds
of Noblemen they had to give some Parts of Harvest to
them, but unlike the European Farmers, who were often
Servants with no rights and Possesion of their Lord,
they had the Right to leave anytime and seek Work
on another Landlords Grounds.
The Right to manage a Part could
pass to the children, but could not be sold.
If a Farmer failed to manage his Part it felt
back to the Community.

There were even Farmers owning their Land
as collective Communities. They were sharing the
Land in Parts.
Itīs tragic that the Aztecs ( who were known to take Baths every Day )
were defeated by the Spain ( the Conqistadores were not that much into
bathing ;) ), because iīam courious about how their Culture would have
developed.

I think the Form of Government they had is quite similar to what
Greek Authors tell us about the Galatae ( " Galatae" = Celts that were
setteled in Centralturkey , about 300 before C. , and builded a state in
Nortprygien.)

They had 3 Big Tribes : Tectosagen, Trokmer, Tolistoboger

Each Tribe had 4 Clans, with own Territory ( not proven ) .
Each Clan was ruled by a Tetrach ( Tetra : Four, Archos : Leader ),
under him two Generals,two Vice Generals and a Judge.
Itīs very possible that the were ellected ( proven in other Celtic Societys).
The twelve Tetrachies sent 300 "Senators" Into a National Gathering taking
Place at " Drunemeton " ( Oak Sanctuary ) . Dispite of that the Clans were
pretty Independant. A try to unite them with Force by a Leader named
Ortagion failed .

In Celtic Society the Women were playing a bigger role than in Roman
or Greek Societys, alltough every Part of the Society was dominated by
Men.

Basically there were Noble Warriors, Men of the Arts ( Bards , Druids ,
Craftmen ) , and a majority of normal Farmers .

The Galatae were also into the Offering of Humans ( most important
Case was in 165 b.C. when Pows were offered at the Drunemeton.)
A rich mundane Tradition mentioned by historic Authors might explain
the lack of written documents.

more to follow ...

Best regards, your Utgard-Loki

-------------------

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