View Full Version : Traditional Aryan Values from the Rig Veda

Thursday, August 1st, 2002, 03:42 PM
"The Gods have not ordained hunger to be our death: even to the well-fed man comes death in varied shape.
The riches of the liberal never waste away, while he who will not give finds none to comfort him.

The man with food in store who, when the needy comes in miserable case begging for bread to eat,
Hardens his heart against him-even when of old he did him service-finds not one to comfort him.

Bounteous is he who gives unto the beggar who comes to him in want of food and feeble.
Success attends him in the shout of battle. He makes a friend of him in future troubles.

No friend is he who to his friend and comrade who comes imploring food, will offer nothing.
Let him depart-no home is that to rest in-, and rather seek a stranger to support him.

Let the rich satisfy the poor implorer, and bend his eye upon a longer pathway.
Riches come now to one, now to another, and like the wheels of cars are ever rolling.

The foolish man wins food with fruitless labour: that food -I speak the truth- shall be his ruin.
He feeds no trusty friend, no man to love him. All guilt is he who eats with no partaker.

The ploughshare ploughing makes the food that feeds us, and with its feet cuts through the path it follows.
Better the speaking than the silent Brahman: the liberal friend outyalues him who gives not.

He with one foot hath far outrun the biped, and the two-footed catches the three-footed.
Four-footed creatures come when bipeds call them, and stand and look where five are met together.

The hands are both alike: their labour differs. The yield of sister milch-kine is unequal.
Twins even differ in their strength and vigour: two, even kinsmen, differ in their bounty."

--- Hymn 117 from the tenth collection of the Rik Veda

Wednesday, March 26th, 2003, 04:28 PM
"Indra protected in battle the Aryan worshipper, he subdued the lawless for Manu, he conquered the black skin".
[Rig Veda I. 130. 8]

"The black skin, the hated of Indra, were swept out of heaven".
[RV IX. 73. 5]

"Black skin is impious and lowly".
[RV II. 12. 4]
The above aphorism is a fine one, and should be given in the Sanskrit here;
"dA'saM va'rNam a'dharaM gu'nA'kaH"

"Stormy gods who rush on like furious bulls and scatter the black skin".
[RV IX. 73. 5]

"The Thunderer bestowed on his White friends the fields, bestowed the sun, bestowed the waters".
[RV I. 100. 18]

Friday, March 28th, 2003, 02:47 PM
Not only the black skin colour, the dasyu is characterised by its 'anas' character. 'Anas' or noseless/flat-nosed is also deformed of speech, it is not capable of conveying noble thoughts and its language and mind is akin to vulgar curses.

Most of this can easily apply to certain people who are forcing, imposing their version of "Samskritam". Well, what happened to the vedic nasal attribute? This is 'Anas' speaking, as an Anas would, due to its flat nose it is unable to produce the nasal sound properly to convey and place the Sandhi.

It is exactly this nature of the vedic heritage which sounds quite globalised, sentimental and anti-volk, anti-nature, anti-truth, anti-racialist.

The so-called dravidian people are comprised basically of the Hamite, Semite, Polynesian, Afroid, Khmer racial characters.

Then we also have the the Uralic-Altac mongolians, the Chinese also. All of these can be the 'Anas'. Anas is for black, flat-nosed and inferior-headed non-Aryans.

It is wrong to call the Dasas a black people.
"Dasa Varnam" can never actually mean black-skinned. Since Dasas were the Iranian and other Early Aryans in Bharat(Indo-Iranian, thus Aryan) people which had sore relations with the Vedic Aryans. "Dasa Varnam" speaks about the evil nature of the Dasa peoples, as Vedic fought them during those times. They are thus occassionally described as covered-in-black and of black character. But then we have the Skandinavian Vikings described as "Black Foreigners", by the Irishmen in Europe, when they fought in the middle ages.

The actual black people ought to be the Dasyus, the Khmer-Munda tribals. As the Altaic and Khmer Mongolians are "Anasik"-of deformed speech.

Saturday, March 29th, 2003, 06:39 AM
On the last point, the Irish called the Vikings 'black-strangers', or 'fair-strangers' - there was no mention of 'skin'.

Whereas I am told that 'varna' means 'skin', 'complexion' [i.e., skin-colour].
Also, it is said that 'varna' also means 'caste'.

Therefore I think 'black skin' is a reasonable translation of dA'saM va'rNam in the Vedic context; i.e., where the Dasas is the antithesis of the White and Blond Aryas.

Saturday, March 29th, 2003, 03:38 PM
Dasa, Dasyu: terms used in the Rig Veda for the pre-Aryan population opposing the Aryan invasions, described as dark-skinned.

Varna: colour; the Sanskrit name for the four original castes.

[both definitions from Karel Werner's Dictionary of Hinduism, 1994]

Saturday, March 29th, 2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Moody Lawless
Dasa, Dasyu: terms used in the Rig Veda for the pre-Aryan population opposing the Aryan invasions, described as dark-skinned.

Varna: colour; the Sanskrit name for the four original castes.

[both definitions from Karel Werner's Dictionary of Hinduism, 1994]

Both definitions are actually wrong.

Varna is a simple classification. It has acquired a false meaning for meaning colour instead. There are actually three varnas among the Dvija. The Shudra is an outsider therefore it is not included at all.

Varna's use as in normal classification, when used with Dasa in the Rig Veda especially, refers to the neighbouring IE people and not dark-skinned Dasyus. Probabaly because the words Dasa and Dasyu have similar spellings, given we use the Roman alphabet, and most of all they cognate, and they are assumed to be similar by the one which is alien to the Vedic language itself.

Divodasa is infact one of the most trusted friend of the Purus and the Bharatas, and his own clan is friendly and not very distinct from the Aryas. And there were others among the Dasa, and most of them for whom a deviation from the Vedic people had taken place and thus their animosity. Aryas were the IE folks which were endeared to the Gods/Devs.

'Varna' or its more literal etymological variant 'Varga' is actually about a classification, not based on skin-colour.

And the Sanskrit word which you offered itself does not mean anything remotely related to "Black skin is impious and lowly", for the Dasa people. Its a violence to the vedic language, an overkill owing to ignorance.

"dA'saM va'rNam a'dharaM gu'nA'kaH|"

Actually it is 'Guhakah', meaning, "away from sight".

"Dasa class move away from sight."

In the vedic language, Adharam is the opposite of Dharam(firm, stable or fixed, contained-within)

The finest value of the Rig Veda is Dharam or firmness, and that which changes its position, and moves is Adharam.

Meanwhile, four are the Varnashrams, or phases of life, another instance of classification.

Dasyu, meanwhile has a lot of other features, which I have already mentioned. and it is quite possible that the Aryas encountered an ancient proto-variety of the mongolian sub-culture along with Khmer and Munda.

Monday, March 31st, 2003, 03:44 PM
I bow to your knowledge which is far greater than my own - you are a scholar, sir.

However, my provocative stance was meant to try and nudge the Vedic out-look towards Racial Nationalism.

So while the phrase 'Dasa class' is more authentic, it is fairly meaningless to Western Aryans today.
Whereas everyone here can appreciate the assertion that "black skin is impious and lowly" immediately.

I feel that the latter interpretation [no matter how much violence it does to the Veda] points to a modern spirituality, which is both elevated and racialist.

Tuesday, April 1st, 2003, 02:21 PM
Dasyu is lowly and black, and it is impious. You may see it that way instead.

And annihiliation of Dasyu is simply akin to removing a distraction or ignorance which simply does not exist. This is what the Dvija stand for. Dvija stands for knowledge and awareness and all that is true. It is utmost honesty and knowledge.

While the Dasyu class(including the races of Khmer, Munda, Polynesian Southern Peninsular, Semitic, Afroid, Mongolian) dark and Anas, simply does not exist. So treating it with despise, as an Aryan would treat dishonesty and untruth, would tantamount to making existence pure. Mixing or bastardising will produce deception to what 'is'. Or in other words, it will pervert the purest essence of existence itself.

This is certainly not the 'Smritis' of Manu, nor even Hinduism. This is Vedic Aryan. This is simple and straight, both. But it may not appeal to a west which has endeared to everything with a dualistic way.