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Wayfarer
Sunday, September 11th, 2005, 01:15 AM
The Nine Nations

FORGET the pious wisdom you've been handed about North America. Forget about the borders dividing the United States, Canada, and Mexico, those pale barriers so thoroughly porous to money, immigrants, and ideas. Forget the bilge you were taught in sixth-grade geography about East and West, North and South, faint echoes of glorious pasts that never really existed save in sanitized textbooks.
Forget the maze of state and provincial boundaries, those historical accidents and surveyors' mistakes. The reason no one except the trivia expert can name all fifty of the United States is that they hardly matter.

Forget the political almanacs full of useless data on local elections rendered meaningless by strangely carved districts and precincts.
Consider, instead, the way North America really works. It is Nine Nations. Each has its capital and its distinctive web of power and influence. A few are allies, but many are adversaries. Several have readily acknowledged national poets, and many have characteristic dialects and mannerisms. Some are close to being raw frontiers; others have four centuries of history. Each has a peculiar economy; each commands a certain emotional allegiance from its citizens. These nations look different, feel different, and sound different from each other, and few of their boundaries match the political lines drawn on current maps. Some are It's valuable to recognize these divergent realities. 'The layers of unifying flavor and substances that define these nations help explain the major storms and excursions through which our public affairs pass.

Studying them is certainly far more constructive than examining misleading ideas, such as "Colorado." Colorado is clearly two different places: the eastern half, which is flat, fertile agricultural land, and the western half, which rises dramatically in the suburbs of Denver to become the Rocky Mountains. Back when there were few people to speak of in the territory and it didn't make much difference, "Colorado" was boxed off into a neat, perfect rectangle, and now the idea it represents has been around long enough to become selfperpetuating. People speak and think of Colorado as one identifiable place, despite abundant evidence to the contrary and for little better reason than that their fathers did it that way. That does not, however, make the idea useful.

Take the farm protest movement that in the late seventies resulted in thousands of tractors blocking the traffic of downtown Washington, D.C. It was born of a frustration that spoke of parity and adverse farm prices, but it went far deeper. Actually, it was a cry declaring that no one cared about the farmers' problems; no one acknowledged the importance of the farmers' existence; no one was listening. That frustration did not first manifest itself in the heartland of Iowa or Nebraska. The American Agriculture Movement was born in the wheat fields of eastern Colorado. That's not much of a surprise. If any farmer was likely to be mad as hell, it would be he who sent his taxes to Denver, despite that capital's obvious interest in loosening its agrarian ties. Denver's great pride today is its shedding of the label "cowtown." As Denver flourishes (it's been called the nesting place of the forty story crane), it clearly cares less and less about wheat. Denver sees its future in the oil, coal, gas, uranium, copper, molybdenum, and snow to its mountainous, winter scoured west. Denver is the capital of, and the staging area for the assault on, the Empty Quarter - the most mineral-rich of the Nine Nations. The irrigated farm country to its east is rightfully part of a completely different nation - the Breadbasket.

"California" is an even worse idea than Colorado. The Empty Quarter's attitude toward the Breadbasket is cordial inattention. The two Pacific nations that divide California by contrast, are openly antagonistic. They're as antithetical as sunshine and rain.

you can read the book online here (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.garr eau.com%2Fmain.cfm%3Faction%3Dbook%26id% 3D3)

Ahnenerbe
Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 09:20 AM
[Mostly Russian fantasy, but still some food for thought.]


by Stanislav Mishin

More than likely, a US collapse will have direct and balkanizing effects not only on the US but also on the weak Canadian confederacy, tied economically to the hip of the US economic might or there lack of, and to the civil war torn Mexican giant. As such, from what was originally four states: Canada, USA, Mexico and Cuba, as well as the dozen or so small island statelits of the north Caribbean, will form thirteen new entities, separated politically and economically. We will now review each and everyone of these, starting from the West and moving to the East.


Republic of Alaska

Oil rich Alaska, separated from America and never fully part of the mainland culture, will quickly split off. It will rely primarily on its oil wealth, opening up many new fields that are presently closed to it by the US federal government. More than likely, Canada’s Yukon will also join it in a new state on the edge of human civilization. Lacking the military power to protect themselves, especially from neighbors like the People’s Democratic Republic of Western North America, the ROA will be forced to seek protection from other powers. The logical and cultra-religious choice will be Russia. Thus the ROA will be firmly in the Russian sphere.


Kingdom of Hawaii

Hawaii never joined the United States willingly, but was forcibly annexed. To that end, the local population has always desired independence. With large Chinese and Japanese populations backing them, more then likely Hawaii will declare independence and reinstate its monarchy. This will cost the US its main Pacific ports, so that for Hawaii to maintain independence, it will be forced to seek protection from either China or Japan. The question becomes, under whose shadow will they fall. There will be an intense power politics between China, Japan, Australia and the PDRWNA.


People’s Democratic Republic of Western North America (PDRWNA)

The nation will encompass a block of territories sharing economic and socialist political as well as cultural ties. This will more than likely include Central and Northern California, most of Nevada, Washington and Oregon states, as well as British Columbia and the NW Territories. Economically, as well as politically, these areas will continue their march into a benign, progressive pseudo Marxist dictatorship of green politics and police state control. As one of the most powerful of the successor states of the USA, they will attempt to dominate their weaker neighbors, specifically the New Mormon Zion Kingdom and the Lakota Tribal Confederation. They will also have continuous border issues with the Republica Del Norta, to its south and will have continued problems with the rump USA/Canadian Union.


Republica Del Norte
Forming the northern two thirds of Mexico, united with the US’ southern California, southern Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico, the hard socialist police state will be populated primarily by Mexicans. Blacks and Asians will be expelled or ethnically cleared to its northern neighbors. Whites will either also flee or be absorbed. The nation will be relatively poor, though quiet, as the government will deal with the gangs, mafia and disturbances with extreme brutality. Oil will be the primary generator of GDP and will be mostly stolen by the ruling elites.


Soviet Zapatista Union

The hard core Indian Marxists, in the southern third of the poverty stricken south of Mexico, will win their twenty years war of independence with Mexico City. Having reclaimed the much more valuable US Southwest, Mexico will cut loose its southern headache. The hard core Marxists state will join a growing coalition of other hard core, dirt poor Latin American Marxists.


New Mormon Zion Kingdom

Taking advantage of the balkanizing North America, the Mormons will form their own theocratic kingdom, a theocracy of sorts, with the absolute rule by their church and its top prophets. All other faiths will be sent scurrying out of the kingdom. The kingdom will be forced to play all its major neighbors off on each other, in order to stay sovereign. That and its geographic remoteness will aid its sovereignty.


Lakota Tribal Confederation

Covering the ancestral lands, this traditional but libertarian loose confederation of Indian clans and whites who share their culture, has already declared its independence, making it official in 2008. True, at present the US ignores them and their claims, when the collapse comes, there will be no ignoring the reality on the ground. Whether the nation will be able to survive in the long run, is doubtful, as it lacks a strong industrial base or a potential for a strong military. If it is not skillful at playing off its neighbors, its stay in the history of nations will be short.


Republic of Texas

ROT, already with well over 36% of the population demanding independence, is already on the brink of becoming a reality. The nation of 26 million, will have one of the strongest economies and militaries in the world and its loss will be the final blow that will splinter the rest of the union of the US. ROT, on its way out, will reclaim its historic territories of Oklahoma. Texas will become the leader of technology industry in the successor states and will be the fifth largest oil producer and one of the largest producers of farm goods and meat animals. As a nation, ROT will find itself closely allied to the Confederate States of America (CSA) and at with border skirmishes at best and war at worst with Republica Del Norte. Alliance with the CSA should help it defend itself from the rump US/Canada.


Confederate States of America

It was always said that the South shall rise again, and this will be its moment. Culturally and politically distinct from their northern overlords, the CSA has been a nation occupied for 145 years. This time around, no longer dependent on cotton and farm goods, and having a large industrial base, the Confederacy, minus Texas and the Florida Keyes but with the states of Maryland, Kansas, Kentucky and Missouri, and allied to Texas, it will easily be able to withhold the weakened and splintered rump US/Canada. As a government, it will be a weak federal organ, closer to the original American constitution. It will reach out to the EU for further trade and assistance. Russia will also see fit to aid and trade with the splinter state.


Cuban Commonwealth

The post Castro/Raul Cuba will be an expansionist power. With a military trained by Russia and a splintering America to the north, Cuba will take the opportunity to bring the various small island nations of the northern/central Caribbean into borders. At the same time, having effectively and completely colonized the Florida Keyes, Cuba will move to annex the territory. Since this will cause problems to the CSA, Cuba will find close allies in the form of the rump US/Canada and that of Republica Del Norta.


New England Commonwealth

Consisting of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, and much of upstate New York, as well as Novo Scotia, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward’s Island. These economies and societies are much closer tied to each other than to their present nations. They will succeed because the Rump US/Canada will be to weak to wage war on them without being threatened by their allies, the CSA and ROT. They will also seek close economic support with Quebec and the EU, as well as defense pacts.


Republic of Quebec

As the French have always chaffed under English rule, they will take the opportunity to break out and will seek a close relationship with the EU and with the neighboring New England Commonwealth, relying on both for defense from the ever aggressive Rump USA/Canadian police state. Quebec may even petition to join the EU.


US Federal Government + Canada (Rump USA/Canada)

The remains of America will move quickly to absorb the weakened but oil rich rump Canada. Still reeling from its territorial losses, Canada will offer little resistance. As a nation, the USA/Canada will be a strict centralized police state, with military governors ruling over the elected state governors and control of population movement, under war powers acts, on the level of the former East Germany. Its economy will still be strong but it will be a shadow, as will its military, of its former self. As such, it will be locked in territorial disputes with all of its neighbors and will be viewed as a rogue state by larger countries, such as the EU, Russia, Japan, China and so on. Over all, the North American continent will be one of a sea of storms, with a few relative quiet spots, such as the Republic of Texas and the Republic of Alaska, though even those will be hard pressed to avoid the various territorial wars that will rage for decades until the survivors of the balkanization grow tired of fighting and comfortable in their own new borders.


Source: Pravda.ru (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fenglish. pravda.ru%2Fopinion%2Fcolumnists%2F10945 2-0%2F)

SpearBrave
Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 11:17 AM
Why does it seem Russians always have these thoughts about America?
Anyone who has been to America for a extended period of time knows these thoughts are unrealistic.
They always forget or don't know about America's real wealth. If you don't know here is a hint it is not oil,coal,gold or silver.

Vindefense
Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 01:53 PM
Hmm. This should serve to remind us Americans, that no matter how much we absolutely detest Federal jurisdiction over us, the Union must be preserved. We are still one of the few Nations in the world where life, liberty and property can be defended either legally or with force.

Kogen
Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 03:24 PM
New England Commonwealth

Consisting of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, and much of upstate New York, as well as Novo Scotia, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward’s Island. These economies and societies are much closer tied to each other than to their present nations. They will succeed because the Rump US/Canada will be to weak to wage war on them without being threatened by their allies, the CSA and ROT. They will also seek close economic support with Quebec and the EU, as well as defense pacts.


Republic of Quebec

As the French have always chaffed under English rule, they will take the opportunity to break out and will seek a close relationship with the EU and with the neighboring New England Commonwealth, relying on both for defense from the ever aggressive Rump USA/Canadian police state. Quebec may even petition to join the EU.These really seem 'off' to me. Why would Quebec, a country on another continent - seperated by the Atlantic ocean, wish to join the EU, only to lose its independance right after it got it?

And since when would English and French people be strong allies? Many people here hate the French just as much now as they did in the 1700s. Overall public opinion and politics have never been anything other than hostile; no expections.

Gardisten
Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 04:03 PM
I would think that Newfoundland would prefer its independence again rather than join a "New England Commonwealth". Also, Vermont has a strong independence sentiment; would they not rather become a republic?

As for the Confederate States of America... things have changed so much in the last century and a half that any attempt to form such a thing would probably result in a race war and probably result in the formation of a black republic or two.

prodeutsch
Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 04:58 PM
Oh Brother, not another russian intel summary. If I was the Russians I would worry about russian women having 7 abortions (on average) and the demographic decline. Then there is the Chinese threat, Russians have resources and land, the chinese covet them.....

Ward
Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 11:43 PM
Bad speculative pulp fiction. Seems like it could be right out of the National Enquirer.

flwr
Wednesday, October 7th, 2009, 03:04 AM
One should not be so quick to dismiss such speculation, even Russian instigated. The divisions in the U.S. in less than a year since the Presidential elections are real and deeper than I've ever seen (I'm over sixty years of age, so I know the 1960's). We are facing an attempt to radically change American foundation and traditions. The Nation is intensly and passionately divided. The strength of a nation rests in some instances on it's unified ethnicity, or in it's unity of basic social/political precepts. The U.S. has neither.

SpearBrave
Wednesday, October 7th, 2009, 03:34 AM
One should not be so quick to dismiss such speculation, even Russian instigated. The divisions in the U.S. in less than a year since the Presidential elections are real and deeper than I've ever seen (I'm over sixty years of age, so I know the 1960's). We are facing an attempt to radically change American foundation and traditions. The Nation is intensly and passionately divided. The strength of a nation rests in some instances on it's unified ethnicity, or in it's unity of basic social/political precepts. The U.S. has neither.

Yes we are somewhat divided, but not along the lines this Russian says. In some ways our nation is becoming stronger in opposition to the leftist that have high jacked our nation. Each day more and more people see what a joke obama and the DNC are.

Kogen
Wednesday, October 7th, 2009, 03:37 AM
One should not be so quick to dismiss such speculation, even Russian instigated. The divisions in the U.S. in less than a year since the Presidential elections are real and deeper than I've ever seen (I'm over sixty years of age, so I know the 1960's). We are facing an attempt to radically change American foundation and traditions. The Nation is intensly and passionately divided. The strength of a nation rests in some instances on it's unified ethnicity, or in it's unity of basic social/political precepts. The U.S. has neither.
I think the way he presents it is more of the issue than the simple idea of it. Of course we all know the reality that it is going to split apart, even with limited experience.

He just simply shows total ignorance of the people on the continent. Like I said, English and French are not going to get along, for example; it is like proposing positive relations with Germany and Poland.

flwr
Wednesday, October 7th, 2009, 07:46 AM
Kogen-Of course you are correct about the speculative details the of the type of demographic dissolution the Russian imagines. The devil here is not in the details.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, October 28th, 2009, 05:52 AM
Interesting map:


http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/afbeelding-6.png


Forget about the United States of America, forget about Canada and about Mexico. North America might be divided into these three states, but the northern half of the American continent is actually made up of nine nations. Those weren’t on any map until 1981, when Joel Garreau published ‘The Nine Nations of North America’. In this book, Garreau argued that those nine regions demonstrate such distinctive cultural and/or economic features, that they are a more relevant way of dissecting North America than the traditional (Canadian) provinces and (US and Mexican) states. Those Nine Nations are:

• New England (or New Britain, or Atlantica): comprising not just the six traditional New England states (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and Connecticut), but also the Canadian provinces of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland (including Labrador). Its capital would be Boston.

• The Foundry: the (formerly) industrial heartland of North America, covering the US and Canadian sides of the Great Lakes region and including much of the US northeast. Capital: Detroit.

• Dixie: The cultural area more or less corresponding with the secessionist Confederate States of America (1861-1865), but for example excluding western Texas, the southern tip of Florida and including southern Missouri, Illinois and Indiana and southeastern Oklahoma (known as ‘Little Dixie’). Capital: Atlanta.

• The Breadbasket: includes most of the Great Plains states (in the US) and part of the Prairie provinces (in Canada). To wit: Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, North and South Dakota, Oklahoma, parts of Missouri, Wisconsin, Colorado, Illinois, Indiana and Texas; and on the Canadian side parts of Ontario, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Capital: Kansas City.

• The Islands: basically a federation of the Carribean – the islands and their people. I.e. also the Greater Miami area, heavily Cuban by now, and the Florida Keys. Could stretch all the way across the Caribbean Islands to include parts of Venezuela. Its capital would be Miami.

• Mexamerica: those areas in which ‘tex-mex’ culture is prominent, i.e. most of northern Mexico, and a large area in the south of the US – most of New Mexico and parts of California, Arizona and Texas. Its capital could either be Mexico City or Los Angeles. Some later maps include all of Mexico in this Nation.

• Ecotopia: A big chunk of coastal Northwest America, from Alaska via British Columbia through Washington State and Oregon to California. Capital: San Francisco.

• Québec: the only part of North America that is institutionally non-Anglophone. Capital of this French-speaking enclave would be Québec City.

• The Empty Quarter: All the other, sparsely populated areas of North America, from Northern Canada down to Utah. The name refers to the desert of the same name, occupying the lower third of the Arabian peninsula (Rub’ al-Khali in Arabic). Capital: Denver.
Garreau’s subdivision of the North American continent is the best-known example of what one might call bioregionalism or ‘ecoregionalism’. This term, first emerging in the 1970s, puts great value on the ‘politics of place’. Which means that the basis for policy and analysis are geographical areas, defined by their natural or cultural – but in any case ‘organic’ – boundaries (such as watersheds or prevalent type of industry).


It must be said that Garreau’s subdivision doesn’t necessarily correspond with other bioregionalisms, such as those in Cascadia (a bioregion covering parts of the US and Canadian Pacific coastal areas, but rarely as extensively as in Garreau’s Ecotopia) or Katuah (in the Southern Appalachians). Furthermore, as his ‘Nine Nations’ are by now more than 25 years old, it would be interesting to see whether they need updating – have their ‘contents’ or borders shifted?


Source: http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/174-the-nine-nations-of-north-america/ (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstrangem aps.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F09%2F11%2F174-the-nine-nations-of-north-america%2F)

Berrocscir
Friday, October 30th, 2009, 07:06 PM
In my view this is the way humanity has to go - the age of multinational empires has caused the greatest of human suffering. All of us who love our heritage should work to see it gone.