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Vlad
Monday, August 18th, 2003, 03:01 PM
I found the following paragraphs posted by someone on another forum and I was wondering what you anthropology experts think about this:

Most works on the subject of races will almost always date back to 30s and 40s. It has been found out some time ago that physical characteristics and categories based on such characteristics mean nothing, because they are not even remotely stable. They are determined very much by outside conditions, not genes.

And, another problem with this whole thing is the problem with cranial and skeletal components. Back in the early 20th century, the assumption was that these components were determined solely by our genes. It is now known that dietary and environmental conditions play a very large role in shaping these component. That is, let us say, we have two people with the same cranial or skeletal features (they belong to the same group). If they change their habitat or their dietary practices (the kind of food they use) their kid may have an entirely different cranium or skeletal features, even though he/she may be carrying the same genes.

http://www.turkey.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=5253&pagenumber=3

Vigilant
Monday, August 18th, 2003, 06:57 PM
I'm not an anthropologist but I know that Boaz based his thinking on human plasticity.Specifically,he proposed that children of immigrants in the US had different shaped skulls to their parents and inferred that environment was more important than hereditary.But his findings have been discredited recently - he mismeasured his subjects.

If I knew how to attach a file I'd post the short pdf article.

Nordhammer
Monday, August 18th, 2003, 09:12 PM
Boaz was a Jew and had an agenda.

Allenson
Monday, August 18th, 2003, 09:34 PM
Boaz was a Jew and had an agenda.

Yes and there was a recent study conducted where some modern researchers recrunched his numbers and came out with different results....basically indicating that cranial shapes are much more heritable than Boaz thought. I don't have the study in front of me now but perhaps I can find it and post a link. It might be on the 'Racial Archives' site....

I'm reading a book right now called "Indo-European Origins; the Anthropological Evidence" by John V. Day of the Journal of Indo-European Studies. Anyway, I just started the chapter on the "Cranio-skeletal Evidence" last night and didn't get too far before my eyes involutarily closed and I was off to sleep. However, I did get to a part where Day cited many recent modern studies that indicated the stability and heritability of cranio/facial traits and that of all the cranio-skeletal evidence, this is the most reliable aspect of this field for determining ancestry. Tonight I shall look in Day's bibliography for these studies and perhaps I can find some links for these works as well. What I find, I shall surely post here.

Allenson
Monday, August 18th, 2003, 09:38 PM
Here's a quick article about the study I mentioned recrunching Boaz's numbers:

http://www.racearchives.com/archived/viewnews.asp?newsID=303249537945

Allenson
Monday, August 18th, 2003, 09:43 PM
Here's a quick article about the study I mentioned recrunching Boaz's numbers:

http://www.racearchives.com/archived/viewnews.asp?newsID=303249537945


And here's the full study:

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/99/23/14636.pdf

Loki
Monday, August 18th, 2003, 09:57 PM
Here's a quick article about the study I mentioned recrunching Boaz's numbers:

http://www.racearchives.com/archived/viewnews.asp?newsID=303249537945

Very insightful article dalonord, thanks. I am well pleased that Boaz is being debunked in this enlightened age of scientific probing and testing of old ideas and theories. Race seems to be not really a taboo anymore... and scientists and reporters are becoming all the more open and confident to release their findings.

One thing that bothers me, though, is that this article, which should have been regarded as a very important "discovery" in the world of anthropology, is seemingly going unnoticed. The reason I am saying this, is because it has already been published on Yahoo in November 2002, the newspapers are not full of it, and people are not discussing it or debating its relevancy and meaning.

ps: please excuse my colourful experimentation ;)

Tore
Tuesday, August 19th, 2003, 09:03 AM
ps: please excuse my colourful experimentation

When I saw the red I automatically assumed dalonord was in trouble or something.;)

Allenson
Tuesday, August 19th, 2003, 01:49 PM
When I saw the red I automatically assumed dalonord was in trouble or something.;)


I didn't do it, I swear! :)

Vlad
Tuesday, August 19th, 2003, 03:22 PM
So the conclusion is that it is a combination of genetics and environment/diet?