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Zyklop
Sunday, August 28th, 2005, 08:47 PM
Linguistic affinities:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Zyklop/MAP_INDOEUROPEAN.gif

Cultural affinities:
Distribution of Griffzungenschwerter (a special Bronze Age sword type)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Zyklop/spanuth2.jpg

Distribution of certain settlement types:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Zyklop/SETTLE.jpg


Genetic correlations:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Zyklop/d583551c.jpg

The I1a and I1c haplogroups are said to be Germanic:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Zyklop/HAPLOGROUPS4.jpg

Zyklop
Tuesday, September 6th, 2005, 06:36 PM
Cultural correlations
Nordic Iron Age culture (600 BC - 1 AD):
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Zyklop/d90e51f6.png

GreenHeart
Monday, October 31st, 2005, 10:48 PM
Genetic correlations:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Zyklop/d583551c.jpg

I'm sorry but I dont understand this chart. How do I read it?

Zyklop
Tuesday, November 1st, 2005, 07:11 AM
I'm sorry but I dont understand this chart. How do I read it? It´s from the "Signature of recent historical events in the European Y-chromosomal STR haplotype distribution" study.


In the present study, we genotyped over 12,700 Europeans at seven Y-STR loci and assessed whether the geographical haplotype distribution of these fast-evolving, male-specific markers indeed reflects recent history. Samples were derived from 91 different populations, spread across the culturally most diverse regions of the continent and representing the most extensive survey of human Y-chromosomal diversity undertaken in any population or group of populations to date. Basically it´s a comparison of Y-chromosomal markers across Europe which revealed several genetic correlations. The most clearly definable are the Eastern- and Western European clusters. But, as you can see in the chart, there also are correlations between several Germanic countries which I pointed out with the red marking. For example, you can see a close connection between South-East Germany and Tyrol or between North Holland and Denmark. The shorter the branching, the closer the correlation.

Loki
Tuesday, November 1st, 2005, 07:42 AM
If HG I1a (see map above) is indeed Germanic, as we strongly suspect, then my view that Finland is partially Germanic racially would be correct. ;)

Lundi
Tuesday, November 1st, 2005, 10:21 AM
Too bad poor little us weren’t included in the study:frown:

Very interesting charts though, good on ya :cyclops0:

Kalevi
Tuesday, November 1st, 2005, 11:58 AM
If HG I1a (see map above) is indeed Germanic, as we strongly suspect, then my view that Finland is partially Germanic racially would be correct. ;)

According to genetic distances comparisons, 8 out of 10 peoples most closely related to Finns speak a Germanic tongue. The closest relative of us was found out to be, surprisingly, the Belgian Flemings. (Hello Stan :wave0000:)

Lissu
Tuesday, November 1st, 2005, 12:13 PM
According to genetic distances comparisons, 8 out of 10 peoples most closely related to Finns speak a Germanic tongue. The closest relative of us was found out to be, surprisingly, the Belgian Flemings. (Hello Stan :wave0000:)I have been under the influence that mtDNA of the Finns is most closely related to the Flemish. Y-chromosomal markers instead are most similar with Balts, But as seen in genetic correlations Zyklop posted, Haplogroups of the Finns are quite interesting. This can be explaned by our stormy history I believe :rolleyes:

perkele14
Tuesday, November 1st, 2005, 12:46 PM
I have been under the influence that mtDNA of the Finns is most closely related to the Flemish. Y-chromosomal markers instead are most similar with Balts, But as seen in genetic correlations Zyklop posted, Haplogroups of the Finns are quite interesting. This can be explaned by our stormy history I believe :rolleyes:

http://www.yhrd.org/index.html

Kalevi
Tuesday, November 1st, 2005, 01:07 PM
I have been under the influence that mtDNA of the Finns is most closely related to the Flemish.

The comparison I referred to was based on nuclear DNA.

EDIT: Oh, and it's noteworthy to mention that Estonians and Balts weren't involved in the study. (Cavalli-Sforza 1994)

Thruthheim
Sunday, March 12th, 2006, 10:10 AM
I don't understand the genetic correlations, What is Norway doing so close to Albania?

Kveldulv
Thursday, March 30th, 2006, 10:39 AM
I don't really understand it either. We 'belgians' are more familiar with the French and the Italians than with the Dutch? Or is this because they don't distinguish Flanders and Wallonia?

Zyklop
Thursday, March 30th, 2006, 02:27 PM
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=30605

Jäger
Thursday, March 30th, 2006, 02:44 PM
I am very suspicous when it comes to genetic relations.
In the 70s there has been a study which was desgined to abolish the term race, by showing that a balck and a white man can have more genetic similarities than two white men.
I don't think this was made up, but while we recently got to know the genome, we know next to nothing about the inner gentical connections.
A human shares 98% genetic make up with a chimpanse, yet we are totally different in many aspects.

Like there was an experiment where they took the genes responsible for eyes from a fruitfly, and put it into an mouse embryo.
Well, the mouse didn't get fly eyes, it got simple mouse eyes. So what does this tell us?
It is not enough to share the same gens.

RusViking
Thursday, March 30th, 2006, 04:41 PM
A quality post. I would be careful assigning any particular haplogroup to any particular group of people.

Huzar
Thursday, March 30th, 2006, 11:17 PM
Ireland is counted as a Germanic country, but isn't Germanic i think.

Jäger
Friday, March 31st, 2006, 06:55 AM
Ireland is counted as a Germanic country, but isn't Germanic i think.
It's because it says Linguistic affinities,and they speak english ;)

Huzar
Friday, March 31st, 2006, 07:13 AM
It's because it says Linguistic affinities,and they speak english ;)


It means that linguistic affinities don't rapresent the exact reality.

Jäger
Friday, March 31st, 2006, 09:34 AM
It means that linguistic affinities don't rapresent the exact reality.
Well, it does, because the irish actually do speak english :)

I get what you mean though ;) but the map is not wrong.

Leofric
Friday, March 31st, 2006, 03:48 PM
It means that linguistic affinities don't rapresent the exact reality.
Better to say that they don't represent the complete reality. Linguistic affinities do indeed play a role in the cultural composition of a people — a significant role.

Were it not so, then we not only would we never question the Germanicity of the northern French (but we do, as a society), but we would also tend to doubt the Germanicity of Swedes and Danes who exhibit strong UP traits (and we don't — at least not for that reason alone).

But the Irish differ from the English quite strongly in culture, despite the cultural similarities caused by their speaking the same language.

Hulda.Kin
Thursday, February 5th, 2009, 01:18 AM
I think that some of the Irish might be of Viking stock, others are of the old R1b1c7 which I think was supposed to be specifically Celtic...

If the Ydna tests positive for S21 then it is presumably Frisian. I've seen a number of people base a lot of their ancestral claims on the results of their ydna results including descent from Rollo and his 'clan'.

My mtdna results are H3, specifically Western European... I get a lot of High resolution matches with people from the UK, France, Germany, Austria, Belgium which is expected. I had my FGS done and have 1 lady with whom I share a common recent ancestor from about 400 years ago in France... think it's Normandy region.

I found the (mitochondrial) mtdna 'K' link to Ashkenazi interesting(lots of reports on this on the net), did that prove that approx 30% of them are in fact of European descent, some history says they are of Khazar origins, particularly those from Austria, so does that mean that the Khazars might have been descended from katrine(K-mtdna), the same one as the Iceman from the Alps?

TheGreatest
Thursday, February 5th, 2009, 01:55 AM
I don't understand the genetic correlations, What is Norway doing so close to Albania?


Sample sizes are too small and subject to bias
Think of it like your typical survey. You sometimes get false results like 60% of Americans tolerating gay marriage, because the surveyors were focusing their test in San Franciso or only sampled a segment of the population (I.E. Gays, Middle Class students; et al)

People can rub their nose and dismiss taxonomy as being pseudo science, but I find it hypocritical when they worship inaccurate DNA testing, especially on the national and/or community scale

teutonkoenig
Thursday, March 19th, 2009, 11:25 PM
I don't like this racial classification bs that you give, yes I understand their is a difference between the southern Europeans and the northern Europeans, however your basis for Germanic is 100% wrong. Your basis on Germanic is as if Germanic is in its own an ethnic group or a race (a kick back to 1940 Germany). Germanic is a language group, nothing more then that. Yes it is a good basis to assume that they are more alike, but if you are Germanic it doesn't determine you are beautiful or you have a certain look.

I think what you definition to Germanic is "Nordic" which is incorrect. Nordic peoples are the Germanic speaking peoples of Northern Europe, especially Scandinavia

Their only relation is language roots. Germans are Germans, Scandinavians are Scandinavians, they are different.

Stormraaf
Thursday, March 19th, 2009, 11:53 PM
Germanic is a language group, nothing more then that.

So, did you read "Germanic Online Community" and think you were joining a language forum? It should be evident that, for this board, the term Germanic encompasses ethnicity and culture, as well as language.

Hauke Haien
Friday, March 20th, 2009, 01:00 AM
Your basis on Germanic is as if Germanic is in its own an ethnic group
They are a group of ethnic groups, which in turn may be divided into further groups, e.g. Bavarians.


or a race (a kick back to 1940 Germany).
Several phenotypes are found within the Germanic sphere, and this was already known in 1940s Germany.


Germanic is a language group, nothing more then that.
In addition to similar languages, we also have similar folk religions and other folk culture as well as an overlapping distribution of phenotypes. This is a product of our shared history and recent common origin.


Yes it is a good basis to assume that they are more alike, but if you are Germanic it doesn't determine you are beautiful or you have a certain look.
It does determine that you fall within a certain range of looks, which we may express in categories.


I think what you definition to Germanic is "Nordic" which is incorrect. Nordic peoples are the Germanic speaking peoples of Northern Europe, especially Scandinavia
Norden (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=87186) is actually a different concept, what you are referring to are the North Germanic peoples. The Nordic/Nordid phenotype (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=65322) also exists, and was referred to throughout this thread.