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View Full Version : Tavastid Baltic Race = Borreby ???



Willigut
Friday, August 26th, 2005, 09:57 PM
In this Post I used anthropological maps for average Stature, Cephalic Index and Pigmentation from:

“The Races of (http://forums.skadi.net/local_links.php?action=jump&id=1851&catid=16)Europe (http://forums.skadi.net/local_links.php?action=jump&id=1851&catid=16)” – Carleton S. Coon, 1939.

"Nordens rastyper: geografi och historia" – Bertil J. Lundman, 1940.
http://www.snpa.skadi.net/charts.htm (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snpa .skadi.net%2Fcharts.htm)

“Rassenkunde des deutschen Volkes” - Hans F. K. Günther, 1942.
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=38640 (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=38640)


Lundman described two East-Baltic types:



a) Tavastid type: average height 170, broad and coarse body with short legs and mean long arms; Cephalic Index 82-83; Height-Length Index 76; beck of the head is flat. Face is squarely and flat with precipitous profile; forehead is high and broad; nose is broad but often with pointed bridge. The hair is gray yellow, court rough; the eyes are grey without brighteness, and they are not slanted. The eyebrows are thin and the beard grows weak.

Distribution - Western Finland, Western Estonia and although more exceptional west out to Elbe.


b) Savolaxid type: average adult stature 166; the head slightly card bald with C.I. 81-82 and H-L Index 77. The face is broad but not big; the nose short and broad, less pointed than at previous. Heir is usually blond but surely often goes in some darker direction than at Tavastid type.

Distribution: Eastern than previous inwards Russia and in south to Karpatian mountains.


They got their names in according to distribution in Finland: Tavastland and Savolax. He also distinguished two related North European Racial Types: Western Finnish Folk Stock (VF) and South Baltic (S.B.); both are mix of Nordic Race and Baltic Tavastid type; VF F.S. has larger amount of Nordic blood. So, he wrote that mixture of Baltic and Nordic blood stretches in the west to the river Elbe across the whole northern German plain.

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=38599&stc=1&d=1125090296

http://www.snpa.skadi.net/rastyper.htm (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snpa .skadi.net%2Frastyper.htm)


Lundman about Finland in “The Races and Peoples of Europe”.



In Finland around the turn of the century, the coastal population was in many regions linguistically still purely Swedish. In comparison, the interior was, as always, purely Finnish in language. Racially, the two nationalities were, as so often, somewhat less distinct. Furthermore, the different East-Baltid subraces are prominent among the Finns. These are the Tavastids in the west and the Savolaxids in the east of Finland. The border between these two subraces was up until recently rather sharply defined.

________________________________________ ________________________________


Günther about Denmark:


Denmark as a whole is not so relatively pure Nordic as Schleswig-Holstein, and therefore not to be compared with Sweden and Norway. Jutland is the relatively purest Nordic region of Denmark. The Danish islands especially have an Alpine and East Baltic admixture, to such an extent that the general average for Denmark looks less Nordic than Scandinavia on the one hand and Schleswig-Holstein on the other.
From: “The Racial Elements of European History”
Coon’s definition of Borreby Race:



Borreby: Large-headed brachycephals of Ofnet-Afalou type, the unreduced brachycephalic strain in Crô-Magnon; found in solution in peripheral regions of northwestern Europe, and as a major population element in most of northern and central Germany, and in Belgium. Like the Brünn race, with which it is often associated, it occurs also in North Africa and the Canary Islands.

Coon about Finns:



Morphological observations on modern Finns are rare. Those which are available indicate that the foreheads are usually high, broad, and only slightly sloping, and that, in general, the total facial profile resembles that of the eastern Finns rather than of Scandinavian Nordics. The nose is most often straight or slightly concave, and the nasion region smoothly curved over glabella, so that it is difficult to locate nasion. Browridges are usually only slightly developed. The nasal wings are usually of moderate spread, and as often flaring as compressed. Heavy mandibles, with powerful chins, are as typical of these as of other Finns.

About North Africa he mentioned:



During the Late Pleistocene North Africa was inhabited by the Afalou men, a race of tall, large-headed, heavy-boned, people with exaggeratedly rugged cranial and facial features comparable to those of the Cro-Magnon-Brunn group in Europe…. In the Rif, besides more numerous Mediterraneans, Nordics, and mixed types, the Afalou strain has survived or reemerged in recognizable form, and may be seen to have gone through an evolution parallel to that of European Upper Palaeolithic survivors in Ireland and on the continent of Europe. As in Europe these survivors areoften blond; as in Ireland. frequently rufous.

Source - “The Races of Europe”



In modern times the Borreby type is found nowhere as a true population, except perhaps in Jaeren and on the island of Fehmarn, off the German coast, where it exists in relative purity. Elsewhere it is strongly diluted with other elements, especially Nordic.

From SNPA.

Arbo called these blond brachycephals Finnoid or Finno-Lappoid and Schreiner simple East Baltics. Deniker’s Sub-Nordique Race stretches in the same regions.
(http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=38600&stc=1&d=1125089191)

Biasutti also marked northern parts of German plain, Frisia and Poland as Nordic + Alpine + Baltic mixture. On the other side Lundman pointed southern brink of the same region as “Northern Boundary of Stronge Alpine Admixture” (line 5)

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=38601&stc=1&d=1125089306



________________________________________ ________________________________


If we compare Racial characteristics of Lundman’s Tavastid type of Baltic Race and those of the population of Jaeren and Fehmarn (and seldom of whole Borreby geographical distribution array) the facts are follow:


First, note that in Tavastland there is quite Nordic admixture but this doesn’t change the overall situation.

The head hair of Borrebies is most frequently ash-blond or light to medium brown; like in Tavastids; eyes are usually grayish blue for both (see Lundman’s pigmentation map, Martin-Schultz scale). Avarage Cephalic Index range in VF and S.O. array vary from 82 in Tavastland, 82-83 on northern German plain to 80 on Frisian border (exempt Swedish colony in Finland and western Estonia, 78-79). Coon’s and Günther’s numbers are the same. Cephalic Index range in Jaeren and Fehmarn is 82-84 – just like Tavastids. Avarage stature on the same regions varies between 171 and 175; latter is clearly more Nordic. In Tavastland: 171-174. Coon’s and Günther’s numbers are about 2 cm lower exempt for Tavastland, 172-173 (!). Head Size is Moderate to Large; Coon calculated Head Breath + Length size, but if we consider Head Height measurement, then endocranial volume in Finland is much greater in UP direction. Height of the Head decrease considerable from Central Finland to the mouth of Elbe; this can be due to presence and absence of low-headed (Götatypen) Nordics, Phalians, Gorids and high-headed East-Nordics and Wolgids. Frequency of blood group B decreases slightly; the reasons are the same as for the head height; nevertheless this blood group spread from Central Asia barely from Neolithic times.


________________________________________ ________________________________


So, can blonde, squarely faced, coarse, moderate (??) tall, Lundman’s Tavastids be the same as Coon’s Borrebies? Longer legs can be due of Nordic, Dinaric and/or Phaelian admixture!? Coon stated that Montenegrians are the tallest people in Europe, due to Borreby admixture; they maybe combine long Tavastid torso and long Dinaric limbs!? In this occurrence typical East-Baltids (East-Europids) can be Wolgid (Riazan) - Tavastid stabilized blend??

If Coon’s Neo-Danubian Race (Ladogan (not Mongoloid!) + Danubian) is Lundman’s Savolaxid Baltic Race than this sentence from “The Races of Europe” sounds logical:

Its German form (of Borreby Race) is, however, seldom as exaggerated as that in the north. In this sense it is partly transitional to the Alpine race on the one hand, and to the Ladogan on the other.

János Hunyadi
Friday, June 2nd, 2006, 10:02 PM
I'm curious to find out what the Tavastid type is.

I've heard from a few posters here who said that this is a Baltid type impacted by Dinarid admixture. Is this true?

Could somebody also post examples of this type.

bittercreek
Saturday, June 3rd, 2006, 12:10 AM
A figment of Lundman's imagination...

However Finnish induviduals who were classified as Tavastid on Nordish.net were Mika Häkkinen, Christian Ruuttu, Samuli Edelmann, Nils Gustafsson... Oh how striking the similarities are.

Väring
Thursday, June 8th, 2006, 12:53 PM
I'm curious to find out what the Tavastid type is.

I've heard from a few posters here who said that this is a Baltid type impacted by Dinarid admixture. Is this true?

Could somebody also post examples of this type.

A form of East-Baltid typical of western Finland and western Estonia. It should have no immediate relation to Dinarids.


A figment of Lundman's imagination...

Tavastid is a form of East-Baltid and there is East-Baltid presence in Finland. How can anyone refute that?

Urho
Thursday, June 8th, 2006, 02:23 PM
What is the relation of Lundman's terminology (Tavastid, Savolaxid) and the other one where there's West-, proper-, and East-Baltid? And whose terminology is the latter?

Väring
Sunday, June 11th, 2006, 03:04 PM
What is the relation of Lundman's terminology (Tavastid, Savolaxid) and the other one where there's West-, proper-, and East-Baltid? And whose terminology is the latter?


In western and central Russia, northern Poland, and, still stronger, in Estonia and Finland, the East Baltid race is found. The East Baltids are light-blond, high-skulled and round-skulled (brachycephalic), with a broad angular face and a stub-nose (See Figure 5). This race is high in the frequency of blood type gene q. It is polymorphic (vielgestaltig). There are in Finland two subraces of the East Baltid race, a western Tavastid subrace (the Sub-Nordic race of Deniker?) and a more eastern Savolaxid subrace. The latter is smaller and somewhat less brachycephalic than the former, but almost just as blond.

Lundman, Bertil(1977). The Races and Peoples of Europe.