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Götterschicksal
Friday, August 8th, 2003, 05:25 PM
Ok, let me get this forum up and going. :D

What is your opinion? Is there a higher being - no matter what one calls it (rather it be God, gods, goddesses, fairies, elfs, giants, titans, etc.)?

My opinion is No. There is not. We are alone (as far as spiritual or super-natural beings on this world, not exculding aliens;)) I believe when we die, that is it - worms eat your brain and you rot and become one with the earth agian. Sad but true. The only way we live after death is through our decendents that carry our blood and practice our beliefs (hopefully).

What is your opinion?

Milesian
Friday, August 8th, 2003, 05:44 PM
Believe in God, but not aliens ;)

cosmocreator
Friday, August 8th, 2003, 05:46 PM
There is a God and he looks like this


<-----


I don't think there is a God as a Being with humble white hair and a humble white beard who sits in his chair and looks down on us from heaven.

However, I think there is an "energy" or "force" for lack of a word for it, that permeates all things.

Milesian
Friday, August 8th, 2003, 05:57 PM
I always wondered what you look like! :)

Borivoj
Friday, August 8th, 2003, 07:33 PM
I am not a religious person, but I am not an athiest. I often wonder what puts life into the molecules that make us up? Is it just complicated electrical impulses, or is there something more? Also, there is the question of where did all matter originate? did God create it or has it always been present in the universe? I voted "I don't know" on the poll in case you're wondering.

Azdaja
Friday, August 8th, 2003, 08:02 PM
I believe in God, but do not view him as some sort of discarnate spirit being. Rather, I hold to the Jungian view of the Self. Stated briefly:
Our individual psyches ('beings', 'souls', 'essences', etc) are unique manifestations of an Archetypal Psyche which exists independently of any one of us. Within this Archetypal Psyche are certain universal principals of growth or psychological & spiritual evolution. These principals are called 'Archetypes".
These Archetypes have a central, ordering principal called the "Self". The Self is also called "The Archetype of Wholeness", which means that all Archetypes (and thus ultimately, all aspects of human existence) are unified 'within' it. Paradoxically, the Self is not only the 'center' of the Archetypal Psyche, but is also the sum total of the Psyche (Archetypal AND individual). The Self is both the circle and the point in the center of that circle.
Unfortunately I cannot go further into this without writing a VERY long post. I am in the process of writing an essay about the concept, similar to my essay on Thelema. When it's done, I'll post it on the board.
In any case, the "Self" is what religion means (whether it knows it or not) when it refers to "God".
The Self has a reflection within the conscious personality of the individual psyche. That reflection is the Ego.
It is the duty of the Ego to gain a maximum amount of consciousness, and to feel itself as a 'separate' being. It is then able to interact with the Self. This process is called "Individuation".
Again, there is more to it than this. But hopefully you get an idea of the whole thing.

Saoirse
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 12:14 AM
I've been asked why, considering my judgments regarding biblical religion, that I don't endorse the atheistic concept known as the Church Of The Creator. I've expressed admiration for those portions of COTC teachings which seem valuable, but I'm not an Atheist anymore than a Theist or biblical religionist. In the tradition of the ancients, and of many great thinkers of our race, I am a Deist. Echoing the words of far greater thinkers than myself, I see an intelligent motivating force throughout the universe and behind Nature's Laws.

Our Norse Forefathers, in uncompromising intellectual integrity, admitted that there are things as yet beyond our understanding. Eternity, infinity, the origin of matter, energy, and species, are still subjects of inquiry today. As in other religions, nations, and teachings, our Odinist Forefathers used symbols to represent abstract concepts. Allfather represented the unknowable mysteries of infinity and eternity.

However, unlike the practitioners of priestcraft in biblical religion, Odinists did not, and do not, pretend to speak for "God". The Gods speak to man or woman directly through the evidence of Nature's Laws. The whole purpose of priestcraft is to allow the priest, or the people he represents, to control or have power over others. The power of the pulpit and of "Divine Right to Rule" rests on the words "God said", and a claim of superior access to God. Odinists denounce the whole philosophy of one man having power of compulsion over others.

To Odinists, the Gods and Godesses with names such as Woden (English version of Odin), Thorburn, Frigga, and Sif, represent forces of Nature, fertility, and noble ancestors. They provide linkage between past, present and future. Their deeds are parables teaching courage and other Aryan virtues. Even a treacherous God like Loki teaches a lesson in the dangers from internal subversion.

Regarding "belief" in a God, or a motive intelligent force throughout the universe, let's again define the word belief. Belief can be blind faith, which is a mark of ignorance, and which allows the adherent to be led anywhere like sheep to the slaughter. A constructive belief is a conclusion based on the best available evidence, where such evidence is insufficient to warrant a statement of fact. I believe in the God of my understanding, but to make a statement of fact or demand that others conform to my belief would be intellectually dishonest.

-- David Lane.

Evolved
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 04:24 AM
I believe in a God, but no Jesus, Mohammed or anything like that. :no So I'm a non-denominational monotheist, with more of a shamanic leaning but also absorbed a little bit from Semitic thought, European heathenism and Zoroastrianism here and there. Imagine explaining all that to people. :)

Ewergrin
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 04:29 AM
I believe in a God, but no Jesus, Mohammed or anything like that. :no So I'm a non-denominational monotheist, with more of a shamanic leaning but also absorbed a little bit from Semitic thought, European heathenism and Zoroastrianism here and there. Imagine explaining all that to people. :)


That explanation would be an instant migrain for most of the planet, and would possibly warrant a subpeona in your mailbox on the grounds that you are torturing sheep by making them think: something they were clearly never meant to do.

:insane

Ewergrin
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 05:30 AM
I dont believe in any gods.
I havent found one yet that was worth worshipping. Besides.. who needs faith when all of that science is there to dissprove it every time?

"Look, Grog.. thunder and lighning... the gods must be angry," said Bog. "No, Bog, thats rapidly expanding air along the path of the natural electrical discharge in the atmosphere."

:giggle

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 05:39 AM
I pray to Crom! Crom laughs at your wimpy little God/Gods! Crom is strong! One day Crom will ask me the riddle of steel, and if I do not know it he will laugh at me and cast me out of Valhalla! :knight

Jack
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 09:59 AM
*stares at Vanessa*

Um... yeah.

Anyway, I'm fairly similar to Azdaja, except I say the 'Self' is independent of existance - it's effectively outside the universe, and it is this that gives all beings consciousness. Sort of like Plato's realm of the Forms.

Stríbog
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 06:04 PM
Believe in God, but not aliens ;)

I believe in aliens, but not God. :D

Loki
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 08:53 PM
My brief opinion:

If there is a deity, it does not seem to be particularly benevolent, if one considers the suffering of nature and humanity. Otherwise, this deity is not very powerful, or has lost control over its creation (if it did in fact create it).

cosmocreator
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 09:03 PM
My brief opinion:

If there is a deity, it does not seem to be particularly benevolent, if one considers the suffering of nature and humanity. Otherwise, this deity is not very powerful, or has lost control over its creation (if it did in fact create it).


That's your human perspective. Benevolence and compassion are human traits.

Loki
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 09:24 PM
That's your human perspective. Benevolence and compassion are human traits.

Indeed, but is cruelty then a godly trait? I am not looking here from an emotional perspective, but a realistic and sober one.

cosmocreator
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 11:01 PM
Indeed, but is cruelty then a godly trait? I am not looking here from an emotional perspective, but a realistic and sober one.


Humans can be cruel and I don't think that's a trait of the Creator. Humans are just sick mentally. A wolf killing a rabbit to eat isn't cruel. :2guns :bunny

Loki
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 11:13 PM
Humans can be cruel and I don't think that's a trait of the Creator. Humans are just sick mentally. A wolf killing a rabbit to eat isn't cruel. :2guns :bunny

Haha :)

I love the versatility of these smilies...

Indeed, humans are a sick and disgusting species on the whole. If we are made "in the image of God", as the Bible claims, then God must be a terrible bloke ;)

cosmocreator
Saturday, August 9th, 2003, 11:24 PM
I was reading the chapter on the early humans that appeared around Java in The Origin of Races. Seems Homo Erectus and early Sapiens were cruel as well. They'd break the face off their opponent to eat the brain. :stick

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Sunday, August 10th, 2003, 12:16 AM
Now if man is slave to emotions such as sympathy and compassion, and if this was the flaw hindering man from having totally mastery of his world...wouldn't cruelty in some form then be a godly trait? Or at least a demi-godly trait? :D

Stríbog
Sunday, August 10th, 2003, 12:49 AM
Now if man is slave to emotions such as sympathy and compassion, and if this was the flaw hindering man from having totally mastery of his world...wouldn't cruelty in some form then be a godly trait? Or at least a demi-godly trait? :D

According to Nietzsche, yes :-P

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Sunday, August 10th, 2003, 12:56 AM
According to Nietzsche, yes :-P

Maybe I should read some more Nietzsche, I'm starting to think he might be an alright guy :D :AWW

Azdaja
Sunday, August 10th, 2003, 01:02 AM
Unbalanced emotions, moods, and urges are the result of a 'message from God' (the Self) being identified with unconsciously and acted out concretely by the Ego.
The 'message' can be found in these distasteful things if they are analyzed and looked at honestly.

When relatively unprovoked emotions, moods and urges are directed towards other people (for instance, when one 'falls in love'), it is the result of such a 'message' (or archetypal symbol) being projected from the psyche upon external reality. The object of your love (or hate) is actually only a convenient stage whereupon you have projected a part of yourself. By consciously apprehending this and assimilating the 'symbol' or 'message' into your being, you further along the Individuation process (or 'knowledge and conversation of the holy guardian angel'; or 'communion of the Holy Spirit'; etc)

hardcorps
Sunday, August 10th, 2003, 11:40 AM
Anyway, I'm fairly similar to Azdaja, except I say the 'Self' is independent of existance - it's effectively outside the universe, and it is this that gives all beings consciousness. Sort of like Plato's realm of the Forms.

Yes, I find myself believing in the platonic forms (that exist in a higher dimension). (The white, Aryan man represents the closest copy of the eternal form 'man!') I suppose primitivism dubs the Form of the Good 'God,' the Form of Strength 'Mars,' the Form of Compassion 'Jesus,' and so forth. The more complex deities with constructed biographies represent a comglomeration of forms. A prayer to God/or gods is just an appeal to those characteristics within ourself we feel we must manifest to prevail/advance in a particular circumstance. The feeling of being 'blessed and watched over' occurs when one's actions are pure and approach formic perfection.

hardcorps
Sunday, August 10th, 2003, 12:07 PM
Maybe I should read some more Nietzsche, I'm starting to think he might be an alright guy :D :AWW

Hmmm, I've always wondered if women get anything from Nietzsche. He is rather deeply misogynistic, as is much of Western philosophy. I wonder if this could be looked past?

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Monday, August 11th, 2003, 12:12 AM
Hmmm, I've always wondered if women get anything from Nietzsche. He is rather deeply misogynistic, as is much of Western philosophy. I wonder if this could be looked past?


To tell you the truth that doesn't really bother me at all, though I don't know about other women. That is just another thing that would make it more interesting to read. If misogyny in writing was something that bothered me much, I also would not be able to enjoy Shakespeare or Sophocles, or much of any writing from the past.

Let me ask you, does a man have to be a misogynist to get anything out of Nietzsche? ;)

hardcorps
Monday, August 11th, 2003, 03:43 PM
To tell you the truth that doesn't really bother me at all, though I don't know about other women. That is just another thing that would make it more interesting to read. If misogyny in writing was something that bothered me much, I also would not be able to enjoy Shakespeare or Sophocles, or much of any writing from the past.

Let me ask you, does a man have to be a misogynist to get anything out of Nietzsche? ;)

I'll keep this short:
In answer to you question, of course not! The GENERALLY 'lower sense for rank' and objectivity regarding comparative human worth among women, though, is extremely depressing. (In this way I chuckle, in spite of myself, when he vents his spleen re women.)

I don't paint everyone with the same brush, though! I have the HIGHEST regard for the females who frequent these types of board and/or share the approximate ideals implied here! (Even so, I am wary when they might want to exhibit maternal instincts that compromise the spirit of these ideals! But I imagine you, and most women, have felt 'All men are bastards' sentiments at times. So let's say we are equally guilty:))

I don't want to move this thread anymore off topic but, suffice to say, some of the women here have restored my faith in the gender. (I was starting to think racial pride etc is only really at home in a male psyche.)

Hail the women!

_Vé_
Monday, August 25th, 2003, 12:20 AM
What is your opinion? Is there a higher being - no matter what one calls it (rather it be God, gods, goddesses, fairies, elfs, giants, titans, etc.)?

My opinion is No. There is not. We are alone (as far as spiritual or super-natural beings on this world, not exculding aliens;))
What is your opinion?
You only say that because you have not met them yet... Some people never do, never will.

Götterschicksal
Wednesday, August 27th, 2003, 08:17 AM
You only say that because you have not met them yet...

Incorrect. I say it cause it can't be proven.

Francis_Benson
Friday, September 12th, 2003, 07:47 PM
I believe in the Gods and in Jesus Christ. I guess you could say that I lean toward gnostic Christianity. I believe that The Father God is not Jehovah (Whom I see as a tribal god of the jews). I believe in Dharma, Karma, and Jesus Christ. It would take a book to articulate how I harmonize Jesus Christ with Hinduism. But for me religion is not about doctrines, but about a relationship with The Divine. I believe Jung's Theory can be extrapolated to include a racial identity to the self and that racial identity should influence which aspect of the Divine we worship. I am not a jew, nor a negro, nor am I an Indian; however, I find Hinduism and Jesus Christ to be the way to which I am drawn. I find all religious ways to be the equivalent of The Old Testament to a mainstream Christian. Like I said it would take a book. Sorry about the lack of paragraphs.

Wanted to clarify that I am not putting Aryan Indians and Persians in the same class as jews or negros, just that the fact that I am drawn to Hinduism and Vedic writings contradicts what I said about a racial identity. Most people think of India when they here Hinduism and either judaism or negro gospel when one says they accept Christ. I on the other hand see Christ as an existential door to experiencing the Divine and Hinduism as perhaps a remanent of a previous life.

Moody
Tuesday, September 16th, 2003, 07:01 PM
I voted for a belief in unseen/unknown powers, simply because I feel that our knowledge of the Universe is still very limited.

An old book called 'Aryan Sun Gods' by Titcomb makes the point that the gods of our ancestors were derived from mythological accounts of the Sun's passage throughout the year.

So the gods are more a testament to the poetic and creative power of the race than to anything else.

Of course it is true that the Sun is a vital power in our Solar System, so the old beliefs have much to tell us.

It is a pity that we no longer weave tales around our observations of natural phenomena!

It is these latter that I 'believe in', and expect that as our knowledge of the Universe grows, more 'Strange New Gods' will be discovered.

Jack
Monday, September 22nd, 2003, 01:43 PM
I've done some rethinking. Julius Evola's neo-Platonic ideals of Tradition and Eternity are brilliant, and some of the Vedic ideas appeal to me as well (I'm saying some because I need to do some more reading). I'm in the middle of reconstructing my own 'religious' thought.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Tuesday, September 30th, 2003, 04:33 AM
I an new here but it seems there are two great omissions concerning this topic.

One is the religious views of Norbert Juergen-Ratthofer. "Ratthofer" is an Austrian. Perhaps Goetterschichsal knows of him and his views. He is best know for deutsche Flugscheiben but that is another matter, perhaps for another forum. He does have a lot to say about religion. He has published several books including "Wer war Odin".

The second omission is any discussion of die Schwarze Sonne, the Black Sun. This idea rose to the level of religion during the Reich as evidence by Wevelsburg Schloss and the mosiac on its floor. This was a creation of Heinrich Himmler and must have had geat significance to him. There are all sorts of stories and rumors---none written down--concerning the Black Sun at Wevelsburg. The Black Sun was all powerful for the Nazis. Now, we know that this same Black Sun is what we call a Black Hole. In the center of each galaxy is a black hole and it is the most powerful force in the universe. No wonder Himmler held it in such high regard.

Also, the SS, usually considered an abbreviation for Schutz Staffel is in reality an abbreviation for Schwarze Sonne, something known only to Reich insiders.

So what's up? Are these topics of no interest or just verboten?

Moody
Wednesday, October 1st, 2003, 08:33 PM
- die Schwarze Sonne, the Black Sun.

Thanks for introducing this, good Doktor.
I had not thought of the parallel with Black Holes!

I see that the idea of there being two Suns in our solar system is an ancient one. The pre-Socratic philosopher Empedocles implied that there was a double sun in his treatise on Physics.
I note from my recent reading of Cicero's 'The Nature of the Gods', that this theory was held by certain Romans also;

"Then there is the phenomenon of twin suns; my father told me that this occurred in the consulship of Tuditanus and Aquilus, [in the year 129 BC] ...
These manifestations caused people to panic, and to suspect the existence of some heavenly and divine power".
[Cicero ib.,]

This must also be linked to the Black Sun [sol niger] of Alchemy.

To the great SS Mage K.M. Wiligut, the Black Sun [Santur] was a second sun which shone 230,000 years ago upon the Hyperboreans in the North Pole.
It still orbits, but as a dead star [hence the link with a Black Hole - should have seen that], and emits a power to enhance the spirituality of Aryans.
It symbolises the Shadow Reich.

Apparently it is the colour of deep purple, or congealed blood - the noble Tyrian purple of the Romans.

With Aryan victory the repurified White Sun - the sol invictus of Mithras - will ultimately succeed the Black Sun.

Claus von Stauffenberg
Tuesday, October 28th, 2003, 12:29 AM
Ok, let me get this forum up and going. :D

What is your opinion? Is there a higher being - no matter what one calls it (rather it be God, gods, goddesses, fairies, elfs, giants, titans, etc.)?

My opinion is No. There is not. We are alone (as far as spiritual or super-natural beings on this world, not exculding aliens;)) I believe when we die, that is it - worms eat your brain and you rot and become one with the earth agian. Sad but true. The only way we live after death is through our decendents that carry our blood and practice our beliefs (hopefully).

What is your opinion?


I agree, I don’t believe in anything supernatural.

Claus von Stauffenberg
Tuesday, October 28th, 2003, 12:56 AM
The second omission is any discussion of die Schwarze Sonne, the Black Sun. This idea rose to the level of religion during the Reich as evidence by Wevelsburg Schloss and the mosiac on its floor.
This was a creation of Heinrich Himmler and must have had geat significance to him.

The Black Sun symbol was not Himmler’s creation. Take a look at this:

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?selected=54466



There are all sorts of stories and rumors---none written down--concerning the Black Sun at Wevelsburg. The Black Sun was all powerful for the Nazis.

How do you know this if it wasn’t written down?




Now, we know that this same Black Sun is what we call a Black Hole.

No, we don’t know this.



In the center of each galaxy is a black hole and it is the most powerful force in the universe. No wonder Himmler held it in such high regard.

Also, the SS, usually considered an abbreviation for Schutz Staffel is in reality an abbreviation for Schwarze Sonne, something known only to Reich insiders.


And to you of course.

Tautalos
Friday, November 21st, 2003, 03:54 PM
I believe in lots of Gods. All the traditional Ones of my ancestors.

They can be seen here and there, both in the bright sky and in man's courage, in the splendour of the lightning and in woman's beauty, and in a lot of other elements of reality.

Such Deities have allways existed, and that existence was never disproven.

Taras Bulba
Friday, November 21st, 2003, 05:26 PM
I believe in the one true God, the God of Christianity and his son lord Jesus Christ!

http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/graphics/icon.jpg

Glory is to Christ! Glory to Him Forever!

Moody
Friday, November 21st, 2003, 06:14 PM
Pushkin; "I believe in the one true God, the God of Christianity and his son lord Jesus Christ! Glory is to Christ! Glory to Him Forever!"

While I am nominally a Christian, I cannot actually 'believe' in it as a sytem; but I ask - who doesn't believe in some Higher Power in some sense or another?
Even the 'Will to Power' can be seen as such.

Does even the most nihilist atheist really believe that there is nothing more powerful than himself in the Universe?

So I accept that there must be a Higher 'Being' [although the latter term suggests an anthropomorphic entity, which is why I prefer the more abstract word 'Power'], both in our souls and in the Universe [even if it is we who put it there].

I find a pantheistic paganism nearer to my tastes.

Parzifal_
Saturday, November 22nd, 2003, 09:32 AM
http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/graphics/icon.jpg


I think humans are hard-wired to believe in something above and beyond the confines of their mortal realm. God or gods, as a human need seems to be intensely deeply rooted in human psychology. If you declare the object of that need "dead" something else will just take its place but still fill those mythic dimensions. Whether you believe God is real or not seems not as important as whether you realize your NEED to believe.

BTW, will someone please take a shot at the subracial classification of the white "Jesus" as kindly posted by Pushkin above.

Taras Bulba
Saturday, November 22nd, 2003, 06:11 PM
I think humans are hard-wired to believe in something above and beyond the confines of their mortal realm. God or gods, as a human need seems to be intensely deeply rooted in human psychology. If you declare the object of that need "dead" something else will just take its place but still fill those mythic dimensions. Whether you believe God is real or not seems not as important as whether you realize your NEED to believe.

And why is there such a great need for humans to believe in something like God?



BTW, will someone please take a shot at the subracial classification of the white "Jesus" as kindly posted by Pushkin above.

Just a friendly reminder that this section of the forum is for spiritual/religious discussions, not racial classifications.

Robert286
Wednesday, November 26th, 2003, 05:30 AM
I believe in GOD, however, the only problem is who created GOD??

Evolved
Wednesday, November 26th, 2003, 05:46 AM
While I was loosely raised Methodist and took Bible classes several days a week for 10 years, I have come to see Christianity as a manifestation of narcissism. The need to worship God in a human form never appealed to me, it seems like conceit to deify a man and claim "God is human, like me." Even though this can serve to make some people feel closer to God, instead of raising themselves to a higher level through prayer and righteous actions, they are lowering God to a human level.

I prefer to think of God as an unfathomable entity.


I believe in the one true God, the God of Christianity and his son lord Jesus Christ! Glory is to Christ! Glory to Him Forever!

Taras Bulba
Wednesday, November 26th, 2003, 06:20 AM
While I was loosely raised Methodist and took Bible classes several days a week for 10 years, I have come to see Christianity as a manifestation of narcissism.

Thats because you were raised Protestant. The Eastern Churches are more communitarian and corporate in outlook.



The need to worship God in a human form never appealed to me, it seems like conceit to deify a man and claim "God is human, like me." Even though this can serve to make some people feel closer to God, instead of raising themselves to a higher level through prayer and righteous actions, they are lowering God to a human level.


I suggest you read the works Eastern Christian thinksers, becasue they say a Christian's duty is to become like God as much as possible, not to lower God to their level. Read the works of Solovyev and many Russian religious thinkers about the notion of "Godmanhood".

Also it should be noted that the Pagan Gods were more human in its fallen state than Christ who was humanity at its perfection.