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Wulf
Sunday, July 24th, 2005, 08:26 AM
In the past, I've written about modern day Odinists who seem to confuse Odin with Jesus Christ -- praying to Odin for salvation and whatnot -- when the characteristics of the Norse Gods are so radically different from those of the Christian that such prayers are laughable nonsense -- the product of a mind so absolutely polluted with destructive culture that even when they adopt alternative symbolism they are unable to abandon the corrupt substance of modern Judaic society.

In further of a discussion of the true natures of the Norse Gods, I think it is instructive to discuss the differences between the two classic Nordic- Germanic-Old English war gods, Odin and Tyr. Thor, being a warrior, but not, properly, a war God, will be set aside for purposes of this discussion. The differences between Odin and Tyr are significant. Odin appears to have taken his position as war god as a derivative of his role as God of Death. Tyr's involvement in war derived from his position as God of Justice. Thus one sees two very different conceptions of war, and two very different Gods emerge.

Tyr is generally recognized as the original head of the Nordic pantheon, with Odin usurping him as lead God later on. There are also conflicting myths regarding the position of Odin and Thor, with Thor sometimes described as the father of Odin, and Odin sometimes described as the father of Thor. However, dating back to at least the second century BC, it appears that the worship of Tyr was dominant in the field of war, with Odin taking a predominant role in warfare starting aroud the fifth or sixth century AD.

Tyr's role as God of War was derived from his role as God of Justice, and the blurring of the two roles reveals a unity of the two ideas among the Germanic cultures. Tyr's original role in violence was in the punishing of criminals; his role as a war god came from the conception of war as an extension of the system of justice in which criminals were punished. One's opponents in war were essentially no different from the common criminal. Just as the common criminal preyed on society alone, committing crimes for personal gain, opposing warriors were seen as criminals, likewise preying on the community for personal gain. Thus, one sees in the ceremonies devoted to Tyr and his equivalents among the Germanic peoples the mass execution of captured opponents, often combined with the mass destruction of their military gear -- the shattering of opposing swords, the destruction of coats of mail, et cetera. No quarter was given to criminals, and no quarter was given to organized groups of criminals waging war on the community.

Odin, who came to dominance in the field of warfare later in Germanic history, and who now enjoys so much popularity among those who don't seem to know him very well, derived his role in war from his role as God of Death. The original valkyries appear to have been woman worshippers of Odin whose job was to select prisoners, criminals, and occassionally members of the communtiy for sacrifice, and to slaughter them. As late as the 11th century AD, Christian missionaries to Scandinavia were speaking out against those real woman -- not mythical figures -- whose role was to select men to die. The conception of them as spiritual beings actively participating in battle appears to have developed later, possibly from an identity with the Norns or fates -- women who decided the outcomes of all things, including battles.

As God of Death, the belief developed that Odin chose who in battle would die. In this role, Odin was a deceptive figure, and a liar. He often betrayed his followers and condemned them to death in battle, even after promising them victory. He also occasionally demanded his followers ritually kill themselves in sacrifice to them, in exchange for the many murders in war he had allowed them to commit in the past. The Vikings, the Anglo-Saxons, and the other tribes of the German Wandervolkerrung came to worship Death, and not Justice, as the Lord of Battle, and Odin began to supplant Tyr.

Thus, when I see someone -- such as a white activist prisoners -- praying to "Odin" for mercy, for release from prison, for inner strength to suffer through adversity, etc, I find such things laughable. The "prayer" is completely inappropriate. One would be better off asking Odin for the strength to murder one's enemies, and be willing to offer one's own life, in ritual sacrifice, in exchange. Odin is said, actually, to have once granted that exact prayer, burying an entire opposing army under an earthquake, in exchange for the life of the king, pledged ten years from the date of the victory.

Odin's betrayal of his followers did not merely involved demands of sacrifice or the granting of victory to opposing armies. It also involved more subtle trickery, as in the case of the beserkers. The beserkers were men who were granted the temporary immunity from harm in battle. They would charge their enemies, sometimes turning into wolves or bears in the process, and murder many, and no matter how they were injured, it would have no effect on them. Entire warrior communities of this nature developed, with rules sets as to the conduct of the men inside, and with all women excluded -- the rape part of rape and pillage being the only permittable sexual expression. However, it was widely known among the Vikings that such men were both honored and cursed, because it was common, when their immunity faded, to find that the price of Odin's blessing was that they were mortally wounded, or forever crippled, by the blows that they had been unable to experience while beserk.

So how would a true follower of Odin, as opposed to Tyr or Thor, behave? Quite contrary to what many Odinists express.

The follower of Odin is deceptive in the pursuit of his goals, which should include harvesting the best warriors of his people by leading them to their deaths. The Aryan ideal of truth-telling is unknown in Odinism; betrayal of one's trusted followers and comrades, when such seems advantageous, would be a more correct way to emulate the God. Courage was displayed among Odin's followers only because Odin used it to make them vessels by which he could inflict greater death on others; the display of courage would not be a proper imitation of reflection of the God's conduct. At the end of the pagan period among the Germanic and Nordic peoples, the character and courage displayed in battle by Odin's followers came to elevate Odin and attribute to him such ideals, though such ideals are absent from the purer form of Odinic worship. Odin is a death god and the proper manner in which to worship him is to murder as many as possible before giving one's own life to him violently. For this reason, Odin is said to have been the God of Kings, while Thor and Tyr were left to the thrall.

One important distinction in his role as God of Death is the contrast between his role and the role of Hel. Odin is the God of those who died violently, and in his hall for warriors (there is a separate hall for good men, and a separate hall from which Odin viewed the world), he collected those who died violently. Those who died of old age or disease, and who were not qualified for the separate heaven (well, hall, but similar concept), for good men, went to Hel, where their individuality was ignomoniously integrated into a shadow of nothingness. Ironically, it is from Hel that Balder, son of Odin, is to emerge at the end of time to lead and create a new Golden Age in the world. Balder's storage in Hel, for lack of a better term, seems to be protective in nature, as the halls he would likely deserve are to be destroyed in Ragna Rokkr. Classic Aryan idealism is absent in the true worship of Odin. Those who seek justice, protection, or the rewarding of strength and charater will find them much more in the worship of Thor and Tyr. Odin is a God of lies and death, and the conception of war that embraces him is one of war as an extension of politics, and not that of the folkish war for the defense of one's people against outside criminals.

http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=8315

Hygd
Thursday, August 25th, 2005, 04:01 PM
I see you are a Wotanist.

Do you worship the God of death? How does this manifest in your life?

:hve­rungur:
Thursday, September 22nd, 2005, 10:19 AM
You forgot to mention that Odin only lies and does things of that nature for the greater good of his Folk (The Aesir, Vanir and his folk on Midgard) Our myths are symbolic, they teach us valuable lessons in life. Odin's "trickery" is always done with the greater good in mind, it teaches us that if you lie or trick someone for the greater good of your folk, clan, tribe, family or whatever its ok but to lie or trick someone for selfish personal gain is bad I.E. Loki and his actions within the lore. I dont see him as the "God of lies", I see him as the god of "Doing what he has to do for his folk, working for the greater good of said people."
All IMHO of course.

EDIT Upon further re-reading after a cup of coffee, that has got to be one of the biggest POS articles ive ever read on our folkway. How about you post good stuff from well studied and read folkish Asatruar instead of verbal or in this case, text diareah you get from "White Racialist" websites. Seriously someone has got their facts and storys totally screwed up. Wow seriously, im shocked by this blatant BS. How about you pick up a book and learn some truth about the history of our folk and the nature of our folkway.

If you will excuse me, I am going to go and Vomit now.

Moody
Wednesday, July 26th, 2006, 05:39 PM
I think it is instructive to discuss the differences between the two classic Nordic- Germanic-Old English war gods, Odin and Tyr...
... Odin appears to have taken Tyr's position as war god as a derivative of his role as God of Death. Tyr's involvement in war derived from his position as God of Justice. Thus one sees two very different conceptions of war, and two very different Gods emerge.

One important aspect of Odin is his link with shamanic ecstasy, the runes, and poetry.

Could this be the real shift?

A shift from a society which emphasised only war and justice , towards a more cultured society, where [i]psychic powers were recognised and the poet/warrior became the ideal?

And therefore the simple idea that justice=victory had to be revised when it was seen that even good men could be defeated by bad men.

Nixie
Friday, August 4th, 2006, 04:29 PM
You forgot to mention that Odin only lies and does things of that nature for the greater good of his Folk (The Aesir, Vanir and his folk on Midgard) Our myths are symbolic, they teach us valuable lessons in life. Odin's "trickery" is always done with the greater good in mind, it teaches us that if you lie or trick someone for the greater good of your folk, clan, tribe, family or whatever its ok but to lie or trick someone for selfish personal gain is bad I.E. Loki and his actions within the lore. I dont see him as the "God of lies", I see him as the god of "Doing what he has to do for his folk, working for the greater good of said people."
All of which, along with his charisma and oratory ability, is why Carl Jung thought that Hitler was channeling/manifesting the great and terrible power of Wodan. Interesting idea, no matter how you feel about either Wodan or Hitler.

Gundahar
Sunday, August 27th, 2006, 06:36 PM
In the past, I've written about modern day Odinists who seem to confuse Odin with Jesus Christ -- praying to Odin for salvation and whatnot -- when the characteristics of the Norse Gods are so radically different from those of the Christian that such prayers are laughable nonsense -- the product of a mind so absolutely polluted with destructive culture that even when they adopt alternative symbolism they are unable to abandon the corrupt substance of modern Judaic society.


Absolutely. And therefore the heathens have to cleanse Wodan worship of this judeo-christian influence. Wodan, is no god of mercy. He is as you said, a god of death, wisdom and often of betrayal. To ask him for mercy is ridiculous. As I see it, Wodan is the right god if you yearn for power and if you are ready to walk over a path of corpses to achieve your goals. He maybe will help you, but you have to pay a price for his help.

Tiwaz represents for me the god of the "just war". As an ancient warrior I would call to him, if I would fight for a noble cause, although seriously outnumbered or in any other unfavorable situation. He is the god who will help you, if you go to the limits of your abilities while fighting for your "noble" cause. He will maybe give you the 1% that is needed for victory, but you are not able to bring up, because your are just a mortal. But the concept of mercy isnt his either. He doesnt want to have his followers to cry for mercy when they are in distress, but to fight against it with all they have.

Yeloe
Sunday, November 28th, 2010, 06:58 AM
I don't recall ever seeing Odin as a god of death. And to call Odin a god of lies is even more absurd to me, seeings how that's pretty much Loki's title. Please show me where I can read up on these things.

Ocko
Sunday, November 28th, 2010, 02:16 PM
people have still the notion about death from christianity, not the official one but the folkbelief:

When you die, you are judged and as you have commited 'sins' you most likely end up at a bad place.

Death on a battlefield for a heathen is a good thing, because you will get advanced to the world of Gods.

Odin doesn't do anything bad to the warrior he 'betrays' but he bestows them an honor, any men on the battlefield would like to have. Death on the battlefield was an overall joyful experience because you end up with the Gods.

The God Odin chose you, thats good news.

Heathen people are not really that much bound to material riches, as christians or their brethren the Jews. They gave to their Gods in sacrifices anyway.

To know that if you fall in battle you go to the Gods makes people courageous. That is what Odin does with his invitation into his hall.

The courage people show, also shows to Odin that they trust him and appreciate him. The warrior shows through his courage he does not mind to go to the Gods even for the price of his earthly existence.

A warrior goes to battle knowing he might be 'sacrified' (in the sense of made sacred, holy) and be chosen to join the Gods. That is very reassuring and not threatening.

Hersir
Sunday, November 28th, 2010, 03:16 PM
Heathen people are not really that much bound to material riches, as christians or their brethren the Jews.

Many grave finds here in Scandinavia are very rich, it seems weird that they wernt bound to material riches when they were for example buried in extremly large ships like the Oseberg ship we have in our capitol. Most people in those days were too poor to have much gold, I think really they wanted to be more rich, to have a bigger farm, more animals, jewellery...

Ocko
Sunday, November 28th, 2010, 06:04 PM
but why put them into graves?

If they were into riches, they wouldn't have stuffed graves with it.

most likely they would have robbed or something.

Germanic farmers are known to play the game of dice and sometimes lost Hof and land.

Halfr
Monday, November 29th, 2010, 10:59 AM
Anybody who seriously claims riches weren't in high demand in Viking Age culture hasn't done his homework at all. On the contrary; those that had the resources seemingly showered themselves, their kin and subjects with it.

In viking age Norse culture, a high degree of material wealth would be easily spotted through the sporting of rich clothing and fine items of little practical use. Silk garments, gold and silver embroidery, expensive dyes and expert crafted braids lining the seams. Gold and silver jewelry of no lowly quality. imported pelts.
The things we find in graves are likely just a portion of that person's wealth. Somebody who can afford get somebody to squeeze the red crap out of a hundred thousand or so larvae just so he can get a nice tint on his shirt is hardly somebody indifferent to material culture, and when he's buried with it I take it the ones burying him isn't too bad off either.

Read any skaldic poems regarding the deeds of, say, Harold Fairhair and how they were dressed. Supposedly with golden helmets, fine garments and imported weaponry. Sometimes we find beautiful swords that seem to have hardly any practical use, though marvels to behold. Suggesting the ones in question might have been more for showing off than for actual fighting. Having material wealth was the supreme sign of high status.