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View Full Version : Muscles So Huge Even Pro Bodybuilders Freak



Krabat
Wednesday, July 20th, 2005, 05:11 PM
This is Greg Valentino
He is real there's no Photoshopping involved. Post your opinion on hes muscle sice.
http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/211greg-1.jpghttp://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/211greg-3.jpg

Krabat
Thursday, July 21st, 2005, 02:52 PM
Come on guis it cant be that bad.

Here is a link with one of hes interviews.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=211hate

Agrippa
Thursday, July 21st, 2005, 03:20 PM
Mention his name on an internet forum and this is what you'll hear: "Why would he destroy his body with Synthol like that?" "Does he think he looks good?" "Who does he think he's fooling?" "He's a laughingstock." "An idiot." "An embarrassment to the sport." "He gives bodybuilding a bad name."

Not too much to add...

Krabat
Thursday, July 21st, 2005, 03:28 PM
Not too much to add...
Thanks for sharing your opinion.

anonymer gast
Thursday, July 21st, 2005, 03:37 PM
Schwarzeneggers or yates muscles look great but this guy is a freck
This is ridiculous. The bodies of Arnold and Dorian at a time when both were on top of their professional bodybuilding career cannot be compared at all.

Arnold was big - of course - but he still resembled the classic type from Ancient Greece like Steve Reeves did, e.g. When on stage Arnold had a body weight of about 107 kg (or so) at a height of nearly 1,90 m. Dorian had a body weight of about 120 kg at a height of about 1,80 m (probably 1 or 2 cm less).

I had the pleasure to meet Dorian Yates in person when he was still Mr Olympia and this guy definitely was HUGE. Outside competitions he had a body weight of nearly 140 kg!

Back to the basic topic:
The guy from the pictures you posted is simply... I cannot find any suitable expression.. unreal... he is above my personal limit for what I call aesthetical.

Some years ago there was a guy from Canada named Greg Kovacs, he was huge, too, but fainted short time after some promising competitions. I wonder how long it will take for the guy from your pics to...

regards, Armin

Krabat
Thursday, July 21st, 2005, 03:56 PM
This is ridiculous. The bodies of Arnold and Dorian at a time when both were on top of their professional bodybuilding career cannot be compared at all.

Arnold was big - of course - but he still resembled the classic type from Ancient Greece like Steve Reeves did, e.g. When on stage Arnold had a body weight of about 107 kg (or so) at a height of nearly 1,90 m. Dorian had a body weight of about 120 kg at a height of about 1,80 m (probably 1 or 2 cm less).

I had the pleasure to meet Dorian Yates in person when he was still Mr Olympia and this guy definitely was HUGE. Outside competitions he had a body weight of nearly 140 kg!

Back to the basic topic:
The guy from the pictures you posted is simply... I cannot find any suitable expression.. unreal... he is above my personal limit for what I call aesthetical.

Some years ago there was a guy from Canada named Greg Kovacs, he was huge, too, but fainted short time after some promising competitions. I wonder how long it will take for the guy from your pics to...

regards, Armin
Well to the average joe Bodybuilders look grotesque, but this guy looks grotesque even to most bodybuilders. He does not look aestetic to me either even dough I like large muscles and if they are in proportion I would like them even if they where larger than those of Arnold. This guy has incredible sice especually for hes hight but he does not have proportion or simetry. There is a posibility that he might faint if he has not fainted already. But unlike most Bodybuilders I do not hate him after all hes achifement of sice is still incredible even if grotesque to us, this man has never expected us to do the same. Lets not do the same to him what Joe average does to Normal Bodybuilders, even dough I to find it somewhat morbid looking.

QuietWind
Thursday, July 21st, 2005, 03:58 PM
His arms just look deformed. The muscle growth is lumpy and odd looking. He mentioned in the interview that what he was injecting into the mucle caused localized growth at the site and I wonder if this is the cause for such an abnormal appearance. His biceps are 27 inches. When I was young, I remember hearing on TV that Hulk Hogan had 24 inch biceps, and honestly, his didn't looked odd and deformed like this guys. This guy just has these weird shaped lumps on his arms.

http://www.chuckzito.com/friends/images/chu_wrestle2.jpg

Krabat
Thursday, July 21st, 2005, 04:21 PM
His arms just look deformed. The muscle growth is lumpy and odd looking. He mentioned in the interview that what he was injecting into the mucle caused localized growth at the site and I wonder if this is the cause for such an abnormal appearance. His biceps are 27 inches. When I was young, I remember hearing on TV that Hulk Hogan had 24 inch biceps, and honestly, his didn't looked odd and deformed like this guys. This guy just has these weird shaped lumps on his arms.

http://www.chuckzito.com/friends/images/chu_wrestle2.jpg
Yes the site inyection would cause some deformity he also had to surgically remuve a blood clot from one of hes arms. Concidering the sice of 27 inches on a man at a hight of 5'5" compared to 24 Hulk Hogan But Hulk hogan Is a tol man and that makes any given measurement look slimmer than on a short man and I doubth that hes actual measurement was 2 inches because that would be bigger or equal to Ronnie Coleman (currant MR olimpia. see picture below).
fitting a girth of 27 inches on such a short arm is pushing things to the boundries of inposibilitie and that makes it look bloated and devormed. Ronnie for instance still has Simetry and Proportion as well as a smaller girth on a longer arm.
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/topmuscu/images/ronnie%20face%20top.jpg

Blutwölfin
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 06:54 AM
Sorry, but this guy looks like a monster, absolutely unreal and unnatural.
He probably wants to look strong and adorable, but all he gets is a weak and deformed and freaky look. When you see muscular men, you often get the impression of a warrior, a tough guy, you're impressed by their shape and strenght, but by seeing this man, I can only laugh and ask myself how he could ever take the responsibility to do this to his body.

He must have a lot of complexes and senses of inferiority to be in need of disfiguring his body so much.

David Hasselhoff
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 06:36 PM
I think this bodybuilder looks very good:
http://muscleweb.com/sagi/images/Sagi_05.jpg

Nordraserei
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 08:28 PM
Looks a bit like Keanu Reeves

I think this bodybuilder looks very good:
http://muscleweb.com/sagi/images/Sagi_05.jpg

David Hasselhoff
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 10:48 PM
Looks a bit like Keanu Reeves

But it isn't Keanu Reeves - it's Sagi Kalev from Israel! :)

Nordraserei
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 11:23 PM
So you think a Jewish male from Israel looks "very good?" My goodness...:|

David Hasselhoff
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 01:06 AM
So you think a Jewish male from Israel looks "very good?" My goodness...:|

YES, I think so. I'm not gay anyway but in my opinion he looks like the perfect man. Why do you think a Jewish man can't look good? Do you really believe all Jews would be ugly looking cowards?

Dr. Solar Wolff
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 07:37 AM
There are Bulgarian weight lifter who can lift 500 lbs overhead whose arms are smaller than mine. There are boxers and wrestlers who can kick my ass whose arms are smaller than mine. Lance Armstrong can ride me into the ground on a bicycle and his legs are smaller than mine. Big muscles mean nothing. Prisoners, while in prison, try to intimidate each other with the size of their bodies. An individual really can't change the bone-size of their body and the functional efficiency of their muscle mass to bone size is a fixed ratio when all activity is taken into consideration. Strength is always an advantage but muscular bulk can be a disadvantage. The most pleasing body proportions, in my mind, are found in the thread on the artist Arno Breker. The bodies he describes can be strong, flexible, have endurance, etc. They could be strenght athletes or endurance athletes--they are perfect.

Someone once wrote that a mesomorph (athletic type) who spends his life perfecting his body will get nothing else done in life. I think these words are something every young man should consider.

Mjölnir
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 10:13 AM
This is Greg Valentino
He is real there's no Photoshopping involved. Post your opinion on hes muscle sice.
http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/211greg-1.jpghttp://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/211greg-3.jpg

So disgusting, stupid, no more comment to this ugly guy...

Aesthetic bodies also in bodybuilding like Schwarzenschnitzel..;) :D its okay. But too much is too much.

M.,

Krabat
Sunday, July 24th, 2005, 02:13 PM
Sorry, but this guy looks like a monster, absolutely unreal and unnatural.
He probably wants to look strong and adorable, but all he gets is a weak and deformed and freaky look. When you see muscular men, you often get the impression of a warrior, a tough guy, you're impressed by their shape and strenght, but by seeing this man, I can only laugh and ask myself how he could ever take the responsibility to do this to his body.

He must have a lot of complexes and senses of inferiority to be in need of disfiguring his body so much.
He actually has a inferiority complex for being short. so he wnated to make up for it in sice.

Krabat
Sunday, July 24th, 2005, 02:28 PM
They look disgusting, and this is coming from someone who likes seeing a bit of muscle mass on men. As long as it's natural and it comes from working out, some muscle mass is ok. Still, it would take some damn good training and effort and one still wouldn't reach the size these people have. Since these folks practically make a living out of their bodies, they inject all sorts of stuff into themselves, take steroids etc. They also make money out of advertising natural products for muscle enhancement. Nowadays many teenagers are fascinated with these things and if they see Ronnie Coleman or Dorian Yates or whoever else promoting them, they will buy some, even if the effect won't be the same, as these people use artificial means to look this way. Not to mention that these unnatural ways can totally ruin them. I'm not entirely sure, but from what I heard some time ago, once you start taking these things, you cannot really stop. Otherwise the side effects are felt on your body.Everithing you wrote is true exept for the part that you cant stop training once you have started which is a popular mith. Every human has a miostatin gene which causes muscles to shrink at arapid rate if he or she stops Training or eating a suficiant amount of food. I experianced this on miselve which is a real pain when you are trying to get big. I'm not as big as those guis doug. Craig Valentino would probably be an exeption dough because I suspect that he probably has a large amount of scar tissue on him this is however not the case with ronnie or arnold etc. If they stop training they get like everione else, eg. Fat skinny. like this picture of arnold who hasent trained much has gone a bit fat and hes muscles have atrovied. http://photos1.blogger.com/img/251/3728/640/arnoldbeforeand%20after.jpg

Krabat
Sunday, July 24th, 2005, 02:33 PM
I think this bodybuilder looks very good:
http://muscleweb.com/sagi/images/Sagi_05.jpgThanks for posting. This bodybuilder has good proportion , Simetry and low bodyfat. And he does look like Keanu Reeves

Krabat
Sunday, July 24th, 2005, 02:46 PM
There are Bulgarian weight lifter who can lift 500 lbs overhead whose arms are smaller than mine. There are boxers and wrestlers who can kick my ass whose arms are smaller than mine. Lance Armstrong can ride me into the ground on a bicycle and his legs are smaller than mine. Big muscles mean nothing. Prisoners, while in prison, try to intimidate each other with the size of their bodies. An individual really can't change the bone-size of their body and the functional efficiency of their muscle mass to bone size is a fixed ratio when all activity is taken into consideration. Strength is always an advantage but muscular bulk can be a disadvantage. The most pleasing body proportions, in my mind, are found in the thread on the artist Arno Breker. The bodies he describes can be strong, flexible, have endurance, etc. They could be strenght athletes or endurance athletes--they are perfect.

Someone once wrote that a mesomorph (athletic type) who spends his life perfecting his body will get nothing else done in life. I think these words are something every young man should consider.
This is true Motorunit recruitment can be influence drough training but is also largely genetic. some people are able to folentarily contract a larger percentage of any given musclemass. and then there are two oter genetic factors like muscle fiber tipe Fast twitch or slow twitch people dominating in low twitch fibers are good at endurance and people dominating in fast twitch fibers are good at aplying large forces ofer short periods of time. and the otter factor is the location of a buscles insertion the further along the bone it is the better the leaver. of course there are other factors as well like hormone production and metaboloc rat. The more factors you have got going for you tho beter your performance will be.

Krabat
Sunday, July 24th, 2005, 02:54 PM
This is German Bodybuilder Gunter Schlierkamp for those that requested him.

http://www.ifbb.com/olympia/03olympia/photo63.jpg

Glenlivet
Tuesday, July 26th, 2005, 09:09 PM
I did a search on Gunter Schlierkamp and found Markus Ruhl.

Ugly tanning:

http://membres.lycos.fr/bodybuilders/bodybuilding/markus_ruhl/mro160.jpghttp://www.shawnray.net/home2000/gallery/ga_2000MrOlympia/SR_MRO2000_16_s.jpg

He made me think back of the small orange guys in Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory.

Jay Cutler is another big one.

SouthernBoy
Tuesday, July 26th, 2005, 10:43 PM
I don't have any problem with natural bodybuilding. It's nice to see our full potential as a species, IMO.

Death and the Sun
Wednesday, July 27th, 2005, 10:43 AM
I did a search on Gunter Schlierkamp and found Markus Ruhl.

Ugly tanning:

http://membres.lycos.fr/bodybuilders/bodybuilding/markus_ruhl/mro160.jpghttp://www.shawnray.net/home2000/gallery/ga_2000MrOlympia/SR_MRO2000_16_s.jpg

Hmmm, silly me, thinking the term "solarium nigger" was an exaggeration.

This man will die of melanoma within ten years. Before that, his kidneys, spleen and liver will start having major problems due to all the toxic crap he's probably put into his body, his muscle mass (which is mostly water anyway) will vanish and he will give the impression of a punctured balloon. His testicles will wither until they are the size of raisins and untimately die. Hope it was worth it, Marcus.

The same goes for the guy in the first post. He looks absolutely horrible, monstrous and ridiculous.

Death and the Sun
Wednesday, July 27th, 2005, 10:50 AM
I forgot to add that I chose option #3.


Of course there's nothing wrong with training and bodybuilding as such -- on the contrary. But you should do it without pumping any artificial, toxic crap into your body, and you should do it in order to be fit, strong and healthy, instead of trying to achieve some twisted physical ideal.

And what is with all this obscene tanning and oiling that white bodybuilders are into? I guess it makes the muscles stand out more but it looks awful, both on male and female bodybuilders.

Krabat
Wednesday, July 27th, 2005, 04:11 PM
I did a search on Gunter Schlierkamp and found Markus Ruhl.

Ugly tanning:

http://membres.lycos.fr/bodybuilders/bodybuilding/markus_ruhl/mro160.jpghttp://www.shawnray.net/home2000/gallery/ga_2000MrOlympia/SR_MRO2000_16_s.jpg

He made me think back of the small orange guys in Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory.

Jay Cutler is another big one.

I forgot to add that I chose option #3.


Of course there's nothing wrong with training and bodybuilding as such -- on the contrary. But you should do it without pumping any artificial, toxic crap into your body, and you should do it in order to be fit, strong and healthy, instead of trying to achieve some twisted physical ideal.

And what is with all this obscene tanning and oiling that white bodybuilders are into? I guess it makes the muscles stand out more but it looks awful, both on male and female bodybuilders.
The tan is pretty ugly It is most likely a painted on tan. Bodybuilders usually use very dark tan paint because pale skin reflects to much light of them when they are on stage which makes them look less musclebound. I hope for hes sake that it is a fake tan. or I doubt that he would even make it ten years bevore getting Melanoma. He should just go on stage pale and be proud of it after al Germans are suposed to be White and not Black.

David Hasselhoff
Wednesday, July 27th, 2005, 05:45 PM
Thanks for posting. This bodybuilder has good proportion , Simetry and low bodyfat. And he does look like Keanu Reeves


I think he's the best looking bodybuilder of all we've seen until now in this thread. Sagi says about himself: "I'm not the biggest one but the best!" I agree with him. You too?

SouthernBoy
Wednesday, July 27th, 2005, 06:42 PM
Hmmm, silly me, thinking the term "solarium nigger" was an exaggeration.
That isn't a real tan. They rub themselves with tanning oil to more resemble the Greek ideal before a competetion. I'm pretty sure it comes off in a shower. :D

Death and the Sun
Thursday, July 28th, 2005, 09:50 AM
That isn't a real tan. They rub themselves with tanning oil to more resemble the Greek ideal before a competetion. I'm pretty sure it comes off in a shower. :D
But notice the smaller picture, he looks exactly the same in it with his clothes on.

Krabat
Thursday, July 28th, 2005, 01:11 PM
But notice the smaller picture, he looks exactly the same in it with his clothes on.
On the poster behind him it says international championships. Prosumably Bodybuilding. which means hes tan has lready bean spraied or painted on and he is going to take hes shirt of before he goes on stage or has already bean on stage and put hes shirt back on.

Krabat
Thursday, July 28th, 2005, 02:30 PM
I think he's the best looking bodybuilder of all we've seen until now in this thread. Sagi says about himself: "I'm not the biggest one but the best!" I agree with him. You too?

Craig Valentino looks like a slapstick cartoon caracter. Sagi looks aesthetically pleasing even if he would get bigger he would still look good if he keeps hes simetry and proportion. think of Arnold when he was in hes prime even dough he was incredibly huge people that normally did not like the look of large muscles still found Arnold aestetically pleasing. This may also be partially genetic just the way certain peoples faces look pritier than others the same could apply to ones muscle structure.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/2/26227arnold1.jpg (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/showphoto.php?photo=1055&sort=1&cat=2)
Huge Arnold looks aesthetically pleasing.

Picture below. Even dough he is smaller this bodybuilder does not look as good and most none bodybuilders would describe him as ugly.
Sagi in my opinion has bean the best bodybuilder so far for that very reason. except for Arnold in the above picture who is also a good looking Bodybuilder.
http://www.frsa.com/bbpix/waynegra.jpg

Krabat
Thursday, July 28th, 2005, 02:54 PM
Ok, but I was not referring to training but to taking steroids, injections or other substances. I'm not sure, but if one stops taking these all of the sudden, wouldn't it have effects on his body?
Of course training per se can be stopped and this applies to all kinds of sports. Some athletes do get fat once they stop and retire.
yes you are right. When on anabolic steroids Testosterone receptors in the bodie recognize the overdose and shut down the bodies natural testosterone production. smart bodybuilders take the drug in cicles to minimize this effect. when somebody takes the drug for a prolonged period of time and then stops taking it hes testosterone level will be next to nothing and that will cause him to loose large amounts of muscle mass. once hes natural testosterone level has recovered he will be able to rebuild the lost muscle mass without any steroids because of hes muscle memory. Muscle memory happens because the internal connective tissue of the muscle has bean stretched out to acomedate a larger muscle. this is why drug free athletes that have taken drugs in the past still have a unfair disadvantage over others even when not taking the drug anymore.
Craig Valentino is not on steroids anymore and hes natural testosterone is as low as it can get. hes muscles remained huge because of muscle memory and in hes case probably permanent scar tissue which will be non functional.

On top of that come al the usual side effect that happen while the drug is taken.

Donar
Thursday, July 28th, 2005, 11:53 PM
It's like when you get Gizmo wet, and all those other gremlins pop out of him. :D

Aistulf
Saturday, July 30th, 2005, 04:10 AM
Let me start out by saying: What a bunch of ugly ****! I voted for "disgusting" - as in ugly and grotesque - and aside that, it's not practical either (surely if you think it'll make you 'stronger' or whatever); like Dr. Solar Wolff pointed out.

Back when I was still weekly training & working out at the karate dojo, I remember there was this new person some day, your typical 'bodybuilder', completely stiff of steroids. I remember he was complaining because I was being so 'rough' during the sparring, and he couldn't even normally punch or kick me; he was slow, bulky and clumsy.



YES, I think so. I'm not gay anyway but in my opinion he looks like the perfect man. Why do you think a Jewish man can't look good? Do you really believe all Jews would be ugly looking cowards? What are you trying to prove here? The last time I checked, the banner/header graphic said:


http://forums.skadi.net/images/logos/images/Heathen.jpg

QuietWind
Sunday, July 31st, 2005, 03:13 AM
Those who wish to engage in the conversation about the Jewish bodybuilder posted by David Hasselhoff, can do so here: http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=37504

Thusnelda
Sunday, July 31st, 2005, 11:48 AM
This kind of muscles are disgusting. I see nothing beautiful in such bodies...Most of them are pumped with steroids and other doping-injections. Some muscles on men are okay, but THIS is absolutely way to much! :D



This man is right at the border between "okay" and "too much" for me:

http://www.aftonbladet.se/halsa/0001/22/muskel.jpg

Krabat
Sunday, July 31st, 2005, 02:37 PM
Let me start out by saying: What a bunch of ugly ****! I voted for "disgusting" - as in ugly and grotesque - and aside that, it's not practical either (surely if you think it'll make you 'stronger' or whatever); like Dr. Solar Wolff pointed out.

Back when I was still weekly training & working out at the karate dojo, I remember there was this new person some day, your typical 'bodybuilder', completely stiff of steroids. I remember he was complaining because I was being so 'rough' during the sparring, and he couldn't even normally punch or kick me; he was slow, bulky and clumsy.

This is true.
One needs to remember that bodybuilding or weightlifting will not increase your ability at anything else other than lifting large weights or applying large forces over a short period of time, however it will not increase ones flexibility, agility fighting skills, reaction time, Endurance, or threshold of pain. Just in the same way that it will not increase ones ability to paint a picture. If a bodybuilder wants to be flexible he has to stretch just like everybody to get results like everybody else. Same goes for endurance, agility, skill etc. There are a couple of activities where bodybuilders and weightlifters have somewhat of an advantage. These are sports that require large amounts of power over a short period of time e.g.. sprinting. That is why it is no coincidence that sprinters almost look like Bodybuilders. There is one thing that bodibuilders and Weightlifters are realy good at and that is lifting massive weights

Krabat
Sunday, July 31st, 2005, 02:45 PM
There are Bulgarian weight lifter who can lift 500 lbs overhead whose arms are smaller than mine.
If any of you guys are thinking of taking up bodybuilding or weight lifting I can strongly recommend following a Bulgarian or eastern block based training plan. If you are trying to bulk up or gain power and strength Drug free these training methods do both and they will get you further than conventional training methods. that is my experience anyway.

ChrisDownUnder
Monday, August 1st, 2005, 05:24 AM
Greg Valentino looks completely ridiculous. His obsession with size, at the expense of symmetry, has resulted in him transforming himself into something that would be more at home in a 19th Century side-show circus act. With such monstrous size in his upper arms and shoulders, how could he even perform basic human functions (like pick up a glass of water)? And would there be any women who would find this sort of physique attractive?

In his prime, in my opinion Arnold had the ultimate physique. He mentioned in the documentary/movie Pumping Iron (1977), that when training he would never build up one area of his body, at the expense of others; that what he was constantly aware of was keeping his proportions right. I think most of today’s bodybuilders, obviously including Valentino, have lost this perspective in the pursuit of ‘mass at any cost’.


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/Christopher1488/Web%20Photos/arnold_09.jpg




http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/Christopher1488/Web%20Photos/arnold_11.jpg

Krabat
Tuesday, August 2nd, 2005, 12:47 PM
Greg Valentino looks completely ridiculous. His obsession with size, at the expense of symmetry, has resulted in him transforming himself into something that would be more at home in a 19th Century side-show circus act. With such monstrous size in his upper arms and shoulders, how could he even perform basic human functions (like pick up a glass of water)? And would there be any women who would find this sort of physique attractive?

In his prime, in my opinion Arnold had the ultimate physique. He mentioned in the documentary/movie Pumping Iron (1977), that when training he would never build up one area of his body, at the expense of others; that what he was constantly aware of was keeping his proportions right. I think most of today’s bodybuilders, obviously including Valentino, have lost this perspective in the pursuit of ‘mass at any cost’.

Arnold was indeed a great bodybuilder considered one of the best ever even compared to todays champions. Incredible size and at the same time perfect proportions and symmetry.

Would Valentino find a women? Probably somebody will like hes look when you think about it even the fattest ugliest looking people get married to somebody eventually so I guess it will be the same for him. But the number of women finding him atractive would probably be drastically reduced.

Krabat
Tuesday, August 2nd, 2005, 02:15 PM
Well, as long as one has money and fame...
"Girls don't like boys, girls like cars and money"
have you heard this song before? Good Charlotte did forget to ad fame dough.

Nordraserei
Tuesday, August 2nd, 2005, 02:17 PM
Good Charlotte? wtf. You're the first grown man I've heard talk about Good Charlotte.

"Girls don't like boys, girls like cars and money"
have you heard this song before? Good Charlotte did forget to ad fame dough.

Krabat
Tuesday, August 2nd, 2005, 02:34 PM
Good Charlotte? wtf. You're the first grown man I've heard talk about Good Charlotte.
Mostly of the time I listen to Black metal and other Heavy metal, but still man I like Good Charlotte.

Draco
Tuesday, August 2nd, 2005, 10:26 PM
This is Greg Valentino
He is real there's no Photoshopping involved. Post your opinion on hes muscle sice.


He looks deformed, like he had everything broken in an accident and a mentally retarded surgeon just had fun with his body, leaving us with the result you see before you.

Can he extend his arms or even wash himself?

Krabat
Thursday, August 4th, 2005, 02:20 PM
He looks deformed, like he had everything broken in an accident and a mentally retarded surgeon just had fun with his body, leaving us with the result you see before you.

Can he extend his arms or even wash himself?He can wash himselve, but he would not be able to fully flex hes arm because hes forearm would touch hes biceps before full flexion is achived.

He actually looks a bit like Bane from Batman and Robin
http://members.aol.com/thefightingfury/whoclix/bane.gifhttp://www.batmans.de/Galerien/albums/batman-robin/037_G.jpg[/img]"] ("http://[img)

Krabat
Thursday, August 4th, 2005, 03:18 PM
This Bull has not done any Bodybuilding he simply no longer has the effect of myostatin.
As it seems Valentino looks seriously oversized to most of you.
one cant help but wonder will there ever be an even bigger bodybuilder. The answer is probably yes.
This picture shown is a Belgian blue Bull. he no longer has the effect of the myostatin gene. Myostatin is what keeps our muscles as small as possible this gene was necessary to survive when there was little food around because large muscles demand large quantities of calories and without myostatin muscles do not shrink when there is no food and will therefore cause death through starvation. In todays society there is food in abundance and we could easily survive without the myostatin gene.
Click this link to learn more.
http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~bios201/2004%20class%20discussions/Xmen%20in%20the%20Olympics.htm

http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~bios201/images/myostatin1.jpg

This Bull has not done any Bodybuilding he simply no linger has the effect of myostatin.

Research is being done to produce drugs that inhibit the effect of myostatin in humans. These drugs are to be used for people with Muscle distropy for instance, But think what these drugs could achieve in conjunction with bodybuilding. Imagine the bull above if he took up bodybuilding.

There is also a German Mutant Baby that was born without a functioning myostin gene. Hes muscles got very huge and strong as a result.
read here for more detail. http://dox.media2.org/barista/archives/000811.html (http://dox.media2.org/barista/archives/000811.html)

Northern Paladin
Thursday, August 4th, 2005, 09:22 PM
In todays society there is food in abundance and we could easily survive without the myostatin gene.


We could but should we try to is another story. Personally I don't think it's a good thing to be born without this gene. Whose to say humans will be able to keep producing enough food.

That and I don't think being a musclar hulk will increase one's attractiveness.

Imperator X
Thursday, August 4th, 2005, 09:26 PM
OK this guy looks gross. Anytime your arms look misshapen and your shoulders, biceps, and triceps dwarf your trapezius muscles something is wrong.

:voteno

JJ Diamond
Friday, August 5th, 2005, 03:34 PM
I agree with some of the other members this guy looks freaky, back in 30s and 40s he would have been a side show attraction for the circus, known as " the human watermelon arm man" or something stuipid. And size dont mean a thing, Im a black belt in tae kwon do Im 6 ft 3 in and 230 lbs and I have been taken down by alot of guys way smaller than me, and I also have taken down guys alot bigger than me. It's all in the way you shift the weight. As the old saying goes " the bigger they are the harder they fall ".But that guy looks like if he fell his muscles would fall out of socket. He's a disscrace to real body builders.

J.J. Diamond U.S.A.

Krabat
Saturday, August 6th, 2005, 12:06 PM
We could but should we try to is another story. Personally I don't think it's a good thing to be born without this gene. Whose to say humans will be able to keep producing enough food. With the way things are going right now the possibility that the world will go down the toilet seems great and that's right there will be little food around when that happens.

Krabat
Saturday, August 6th, 2005, 12:25 PM
I agree with some of the other members this guy looks freaky, back in 30s and 40s he would have been a side show attraction for the circus, known as " the human watermelon arm man" or something stuipid. And size dont mean a thing, Im a black belt in tae kwon do Im 6 ft 3 in and 230 lbs and I have been taken down by alot of guys way smaller than me, and I also have taken down guys alot bigger than me. It's all in the way you shift the weight. As the old saying goes " the bigger they are the harder they fall ".But that guy looks like if he fell his muscles would fall out of socket. He's a disscrace to real body builders.

J.J. Diamond U.S.A.I need to remind people that these are Bodybuilders and not Fighters or martial arts experts. Bodybuilding by itself has nothing to do with fighting just like ping pong has nothing to do with fighting. The only thing different about bodybuilders and Weightlifters is that they have large muscles and are able to apply extremely large forces. of course you can do bodybuilding and martial arts at the same time just the way you can play ping pong and do martial arts at the same time. both sports can possibly aid to your fighting ability such as Bodybuilding can give you a harder punch and ping pong can give you better agility but the martial art itself has to be learnt just like anybody else has to learn it. Bodybuilders and Weightlifters are Humans just like the rest of us and despite popular belive they do not have a lower IQ. and they do not have increased fighting skills.

Northern Paladin
Saturday, August 6th, 2005, 06:11 PM
I agree with some of the other members this guy looks freaky, back in 30s and 40s he would have been a side show attraction for the circus, known as " the human watermelon arm man" or something stuipid. And size dont mean a thing, Im a black belt in tae kwon do Im 6 ft 3 in and 230 lbs and I have been taken down by alot of guys way smaller than me, and I also have taken down guys alot bigger than me. It's all in the way you shift the weight. As the old saying goes " the bigger they are the harder they fall ".But that guy looks like if he fell his muscles would fall out of socket. He's a disscrace to real body builders.

J.J. Diamond U.S.A.

Agility and speed are of more importance in the martial arts than mere brute strength.

Krabat
Sunday, August 7th, 2005, 04:26 PM
More info on the freaky Creg Valentino.

http://greggvalentino.net/index.cfm?pageID=16

This is what Creg Valentino looked like when he was young before he went overboard.

http://greggvalentino.net/images/pictures/scrap_sidechest1.jpg

JJ Diamond
Monday, August 8th, 2005, 03:20 AM
kempoloaloss i wasnt trying to put body builders down, i just found this guy to look very weird I seen the photo you posted when he was younger your right he did go over board, ALOT HOLY MOLY, I just refered to tae kwon do because Im into it sorry if you missunder stood.J.J.DIAMOND U.S.A.

Krabat
Tuesday, August 9th, 2005, 01:11 PM
kempoloaloss i wasnt trying to put body builders down, i just found this guy to look very weird I seen the photo you posted when he was younger your right he did go over board, ALOT HOLY MOLY, I just refered to tae kwon do because Im into it sorry if you missunder stood.J.J.DIAMOND U.S.A.
No Problem man. I used to do Karate bevore I became a Bodybuilder I am not a black belt dough I stoped when I was a blue Belt. When I was in Switzerland I had a realy good Karate teacher but when I muved to Newzealand my new teacher was no longer able to inspier me

Teufelhunden
Thursday, September 22nd, 2005, 02:58 PM
Valentino's muscles are not real, they are about 70% Synthol, an injectable oil that "fluffs" the muscle...pretty sad
I would not want to be this guy whe his body tries to process all that oil out of his system... sick
as dog..

GreenHeart
Friday, September 23rd, 2005, 02:04 AM
YES, I think so. I'm not gay anyway but in my opinion he looks like the perfect man. Why do you think a Jewish man can't look good? Do you really believe all Jews would be ugly looking cowards?

I don't think he looks good, even if he had blond hair and blue eyes. Even though he's got a lot of muscle his body looks too feminine- he's got a huge butt, small waist and gigantic breasts. :P

No wonder you men like him, my husband said he has nice muscles too lol... :D

nicholas
Tuesday, October 11th, 2005, 12:27 AM
If any of you guys are thinking of taking up bodybuilding or weight lifting I can strongly recommend following a Bulgarian or eastern block based training plan.

could you provide links? Is it just repetition to increase muscle density?

maskedhate
Tuesday, October 11th, 2005, 08:43 PM
definitively freaky and disgusting :thumbdown , these are not muscles developed by training (like i do), obiously he used some like steroids or anabolics.

Krabat
Thursday, November 3rd, 2005, 02:24 PM
could you provide links? Is it just repetition to increase muscle density?

Hi man sorry about the long wait I finally made it.

Generally
Very High repetition and short rests imprufes endurance
High Repetiotion improves Muscle tone
Medium Repetition increases Muscle size (hypertrophy)
Low repetiton heavy weights and long rests Improves Strength and Power

whichever one of those categoris you are triing to improfe it alwais pais to improve yourselve at the other categories as well.
for instance if you have bean Livting very heavy weights with long rests and view repetitions your muscles will have a very little increase in size but a huge increase in strenght and Power. this is due to a large increase in motor unit recruitment which means that your nerfous sistem has becom very efficiand and able to simontaniously contract a larger number of muscle cells in any given muscle. once maximum eficiancy has bean achifed you will no longer be able to get any stronger. If now you would change your Training stile to medium repetition to increase muscle mass you would get very good resolts because now you are appliing your efficiant strength to a different training which increases your muscle sice.
Once your muscle has increased in size you can go back to increasing strength and Power, The difference this time is that your muscles would now be larger than before but only slightly stronger. The Increased sice howefer means that there is now new musclemass that has the ability to get better Motorunit recruitment Training these now larger muscles with heafie weights short reps and long rests will not make them much bigger but it will make them more powerfull yust like the first time you did it only this time there is more muscle mass that is getting more efficiant,

Sadly there aret many decent websites on easternblock training methods. The thing with bodybuilding and weightlifting websites is that more often than not their main focus is to sell you some book or suplement which nine times out of ten is a waste of your hard urned Money. Eastrnblock training is a no bullshit aproach and works withaot suplements and or drugs.

If howefer you are interested in triing suplements Here is a tip for you. Buy creatine monohidrate Powder. I have tried alot of suplements ofer the past years and this is the only one that makes a difference. Andro is another one that might help but it is a pro hormone and therefore more like a very very weak steroid drug. Creatine on the other hand is not a hormone or a por hormone.

How to use Creatine
Load 5 grams 3 times a day for the first five days
Maintain 5 grams once a day after your training or first thing in the morning if you dont train on any gifen day.
I know it sains on the suplement box to use larger amounts of creatine than I jest staited. They only sai that because they want you to use it up faster so thay they can sell you a new one.
When Taking Creatine ad two or three teaspoons of Glucose ( also known as Dextrose or Brewer Shugar ). Glucose Gratly increases the absorption of the Creatine. If for some reason you can not optain Clucose where you live just use ordinary table shuger instead.

Don't Waste your money on Protein Suplements. High protein intake Results in low testosterone levels and is bad for the kidneys, and bad for your wallet.

Fat is not your enemy. Fat is very important for testosterone production as well as for an adequat suply of fat soluble Vitamins A,D,E and K,

Avoid Processed Foods and foods with a high Glicemic index exept for the Glucose with your Creatin and the post workaot meal is allowed to have a high gicemic index.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/md43.htm (Explains what the Glicemic index is)
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/gifoods.htm (Glicemic index)

One book worth buiing is Big beyond Belief Which focuses on very productife eastern block training methods from Russia East Germany and Primarely Bulgeria, It explains al the theoris and has The training plans in it.
There is level one level two and a level three training. my advice is forget about level two and three and yust use the first plan of level one tharaining because it works better than any other plan in the whole book. The book also has two diet plans which are not very good. It is however worth its weight in gold for the first training plan in the level 1 section.
The book is writen by Tom Plaz and two other dudes. and I must admit I dont agree with Tom Plazes life philosopy (Because he is to New agey) for my likings) The book offers a great insight in to Eastern Block training. http://www.otsdirect.com/products.html

If you are just interested in a very productive workaot plan I can post you one or send you one to your inbox, this option would work just fine.

Just let me Know

Sorry about my messy spelling

Here are some more Links
http://www.t-nation.com/
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/incledon/diet-01.htm
http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/archive/index7-detailarch.php?pid=723

sceagacros
Monday, December 12th, 2005, 05:48 PM
Site injections are one thing -don't be fooled THEY ALL DO THAT - greg is an admitted sythnol injector, synthol is a sterile oil (used to be used for posing) that can take months or even years for the body to assimulate- synthol muscles are pretty easy to spot as they are literally a "lump" of oil on top of the muscle and as such dont ever have the right symetry as they tend to be lopsided.;)

sceagacros
Monday, December 12th, 2005, 11:24 PM
I'm sorry -I really have no wish to offend anyone but there's a LOT of misinformation in these "lifting threads", I bite my tongue(hold my typing finger?) usually , because I really hope to avoid embarrassing anyone or getting in a "pissing contest" . But I can't in good conscience let the statement-"High Protein intake results in low testosterone levels" , absolute rubbish and although EXTREMELY high(way higher than anylifter is EVER going to routinely consume) protien consumption did cause SOME negligable kidney stress in lab test's ,The "bad for your wallet" is absolute nonsense compare any supermarket "food" that you could use as your protein source and you'll immediately see why there is NO MORE AFFORDABLE PROTEIN SOURCE than protein powder , eggs are cheap but do the math -at just pennies a serving you're getting 20-30 grams protein depending on brand with powder , your average egg has what 6grams?so- yes you COULD eat 4 egs every 3 hours to meet the anabolic requirement for a 180 lb male trying to add size and strength and if you do the math you'll see that you still would have spent more than with powder.
I've been powerlifting intensely for 8 years , before that I did Olympic lifting up till my 30's there's not much I don't know about strength training and related supplements /pharmecueticals- PROTEIN is the NUMBER ONE thing you can do in addition to a sensible training regimen to add size & strength , creatine would come a distant third behind protein consumption and carb manipulation .:)

Krabat
Tuesday, December 13th, 2005, 11:29 AM
I'm sorry -I really have no wish to offend anyone but there's a LOT of misinformation in these "lifting threads", I bite my tongue(hold my typing finger?) usually , because I really hope to avoid embarrassing anyone or getting in a "pissing contest" . But I can't in good conscience let the statement-"High Protein intake results in low testosterone levels" , absolute rubbish and although EXTREMELY high(way higher than anylifter is EVER going to routinely consume) protien consumption did cause SOME negligable kidney stress in lab test's ,The "bad for your wallet" is absolute nonsense compare any supermarket "food" that you could use as your protein source and you'll immediately see why there is NO MORE AFFORDABLE PROTEIN SOURCE than protein powder , eggs are cheap but do the math -at just pennies a serving you're getting 20-30 grams protein depending on brand with powder , your average egg has what 6grams?so- yes you COULD eat 4 egs every 3 hours to meet the anabolic requirement for a 180 lb male trying to add size and strength and if you do the math you'll see that you still would have spent more than with powder.
I've been powerlifting intensely for 8 years , before that I did Olympic lifting up till my 30's there's not much I don't know about strength training and related supplements /pharmecueticals- PROTEIN is the NUMBER ONE thing you can do in addition to a sensible training regimen to add size & strength , creatine would come a distant third behind protein consumption and carb manipulation .:)

Which supplement company do you belong to if you dont mind me asking? Hydrolyzed whey protein has the highest Biological value and it is darn expensive. I hafe personaly used Protein powder in the past and did not notice any diference, for those that do feel a difference it is probably the Blakebo effect. I personaly have never bean very prone to the blakebo efect. There are many wais to rate protein whey for instance has the best amino acid proportions and is absorbed fast compared to other proteins. Casein (MILK PROTEIN) gets absorbed much slower and is therefore a good choice before ging to bed because it will continue to suplie protein to the bloodstream for many hours in to the night which can not be achifed with whey. Whey is ideal right after a workaot because it enters the bloodstream imediately. I am aware that Suplement proteins have a higher biological value but the average human bodie can only absorb aproximately 30 grams of protein per meal.If you eat more protein per sitting the exess wil go down the toilet. If for instance a Suplement protein has a eficiancy of 97% and the protein of Milk, meat or other foods have a eficiancy of 89 percent one would still have to be Ignorant to chose the suplement path for that reason because where i live suplements realy do cost twice as much as the equifelent protein amount found in ordinary food and when you drink 50 grams of the expensife 97% high eficiancy protein about 20 grams will go down the toilet and 30 grams get absorbed. Not so eficiant animore is it. If you eat 50 grams of the 89% eficiant ordinary food protein (this will cost conciderably less in most parts of the world). 20 grams go down the toilet and 30g get absorbed. Now both methods suplied the persin with 30 grams of protein. Because orinary food protein has a lower biological value means that you yst have to take a few percent more of it to be equifelant to the suplement. It never ceases to amaze me how obsessed Bodybuilders and Weightlifers are about protein consumption If any human wants to grow muscles he has to consume large Quantities of calories to overcome the oposing efect of the myostatin gene. High protein diets Kill the apetit this is the reason why people on the Atkins diet loose weight because withaot knowing it they actually consume less callories because the high protein intake of the diet kills their apetit. Throughaot evolution every species has developed with its enfiroment and so did humens. Humans thrive on Natural non Processed food every plant has the exact amount of vitamins and minerals to process its carbohidrates ,fat and proteins whuch when you eat it has everithing in it that you need to process it. No suplement can replace that. Plant proteins even dough they often lak certain amino acids have the advantage of being non processed and not deatroied by heat when eaten raw. A gorilla can get extremely stron on mostly eating Bananas which do not have a very high protein Count. and ouer digestive sistem is quiet capeable of digastig these foods as well. Most information in the Sport of Bodibuilding and Weightlifting refolves around Steroids and Suplement Companies. and when you are on steroids you can get away with yust about eating anithing.

No ofence meant by the diference of opinion.

Junge Eiche
Tuesday, December 13th, 2005, 12:39 PM
I think that this thread, treating a typical sign of cultural degradation and tampering with nature is inappropriate fpr a "Germanic Cultural, Racial and Spiritual Preservation"-Forum, as it in no way represents any of the latter. Of course, bodily fitness is one facet of the whole germanic image, but I don't imagine this is in any way according to it - except if such unhandy people were needed to lift huge mortar grenades or load bombs... :|

Krabat
Tuesday, December 13th, 2005, 01:13 PM
I think that this thread, treating a typical sign of cultural degradation and tampering with nature is inappropriate fpr a "Germanic Cultural, Racial and Spiritual Preservation"-Forum, as it in no way represents any of the latter. Of course, bodily fitness is one facet of the whole germanic image, but I don't imagine this is in any way according to it - except if such unhandy people were needed to lift huge mortar grenades or load bombs... :|
I was reading drough the Sports section of the forum and started the tread because I thought It woulb be interesting or entertaining. altough I must admit it has nothing to do with Cultural racial and spiritual preserfation.:|

sceagacros
Tuesday, December 13th, 2005, 01:34 PM
Which supplement company do you belong to if you dont mind me asking?

I can get a 6 lb. tub of whey protein from GNC (not sure if they have GNC in New Zealand) for about 30 $(U.s.)it yeilds roughly 100 20 gram servings .




High protein diets Kill the apetit this is the reason why people on the Atkins diet loose weight because withaot knowing it they actually consume less callories because the high protein intake of the diet kills their apetit.


Sorry again , but protein doesn't kill the appetite by any means - perhaps you are mistaking the absence of the insuline spike and subsequent "crash"(resulting in feeling hungry again too soon) that you are probably experiencing if you are eating a low protein diet and your meals are too carb heavy ( this holds true for both high glycemic and low glycemic index carbs , with the difference being intensity of and time before-"crash")
The reason one loses weight on the Atkins diet is simple - if you eat high protein and low carbs your body will begin to change it's fat/muscle ratio wether you lift or not carbs do one thing and one thing only they are fuel (energy) for the bodies processes , more than is needed is stored as fat NOT MUSCLE , muscle consists of and is built by amino acids(Protein) .Power lifters like myself are less concerned with restricting carbs because our sport is not a cosmetic one.there are strength athletes that are lean , but traditionally strength events are concerned only with poundages and how you look is your business.I'm not even going to touch your "placebo effect" assertion except to say (respectfully)- I (and science)beg to differ .





Throughaot evolution every species has developed with its enfiroment and so did humens. Humans thrive on Natural non Processed food every plant has the exact amount of vitamins and minerals to process its carbohidrates ,fat and proteins whuch when you eat it has everithing in it that you need to process it. No suplement can replace that. Plant proteins even dough they often lak certain amino acids have the advantage of being non processed and not deatroied by heat when eaten raw. A gorilla can get extremely stron on mostly eating Bananas which do not have a very high protein Count. and ouer digestive sistem is quiet capeable of digastig these foods as well. Most information in the Sport of Bodibuilding and Weightlifting refolves around Steroids and Suplement Companies. and when you are on steroids you can get away with yust about eating anithing.

Yes , gorillas eat termites , other insects and sugary fruits -I would point out however that we are not gorilla's and also wonder how much stronger and muscular a gorilla would be given 1.5 grams of protein per bodyweightlb a day.
Of course supplement companies will mislead , over hype and claim superiority for their protein products , since protein is absolutely essential for musle building (in humans at least) powdered whey is the easiest absorbed and most cost effective protein source we have and these companies know that there is millions to be made by promoting their brand.In order to eat enough tuna , eggs and chicken(cheapest real food sources) to get your equivilent amount of protein, you would spend way more money and also be getting cholesterol , carbs , and fats that you may not want /be restricting.I am open to the Idea that in your country protein may be more expensive but you obviously have internet and could be buying tubs of 5-6 lbs. for 20-39 U.S. +shipping.


No ofence meant by the diference of opinion.


None taken , and I hope - none taken...:)

with respect ,
sceagecros




:thumbup

Junge Eiche
Tuesday, December 13th, 2005, 10:11 PM
I was reading drough the Sports section of the forum and started the tread because I thought It woulb be interesting or entertaining. altough I must admit it has nothing to do with Cultural racial and spiritual preserfation.:|

I'm just a little scared how much knowledge about all this is circulating here ;)

sceagacros
Wednesday, December 14th, 2005, 02:04 PM
Another misconception I see perpetrated throughout this thread are the ideas that bigger muscles are going to slow you down (usually related to "fighting prowess"), and that if someone looks massive -it must be all the steroids.Let me address them in order.

1) Power lifting will definitely decrease your reaction time - not in the time it takes to get from the eye to the brain but in the time it takes for the brain to move the fist . Power lifting develops red fast twitch fibers / bodybuilding develops more white slow twitch fibers . Bruce Jenner (1976 olympic decathlon champion) relates his victory to incorporating power lifting to his training regimen.At the time the antiquated idea that muscle would slow you down -make you inflexible and stiff , was the common attitude in sports.Today EVERYONE from teenis greats to boxing champs incorporates SOME form of powerlifting/strength training to thier regimen for the benefits of DECREASED reaction time(building the red fast twitch fibers quickens the synapses firing time), as well as for the additional strength and power it can add.As a result -todays atheletes are stronger , set higher records and generaly outperform the atheletes of yesteryear to an incredible degree.Of course steroids have also made thier contribution but we're getting to that...BTW let's have a reality check-I'm a little old for the "my martial art's can beat your powerlifting thing" but without going into detail -I've had my share of conflict and street violence , although at my age now I feel that unless directly attacked -involvement in "scuffles" is simply beneath my maturity.No knock on serious martial artist types but it 's my experience that in real life those with a boxing, wrestling, or powerlifting background usually wipe the floor with them.That martial artist guy may hit and hit but once that powerlifter gets a hold of him ....And once that "slow,musclebound" powerlifter's fist DOES connect the force behind it will put our martial artists head thru the wall.I suppose the most effective fighter would be someone who combines both strength traing and some form of martial arts with more martial and less art- meaning-until you've been hit HARD in the face in real life enuff times to get used to the mental and physical effect- you are not ready for "real-life" street fight against anyone who has , he'll get hit and keep coming -one good smack in the eye or nose and you'll be learning quickly why some of the best street fighters come from a boxing background.Mike Tyson is an example of a truly fearsome being he has the boxing , powerlifting , and real life "street fighting " all going for him AND INSPITE OF HIS POWERLIFTING/STRENGTH TRAINING incorporated into his training managed to be world champ !Go FIGURE!


2) "boy he's big and muscular - it's because he MUST be juiced out of his mind!" usually said by the same adolescent type claiming their "martial arts training"(Ever get the feeling most of these are really 15-21 year old boys who's "training" consists of reading karate mags?") would enable them to destroy the 260 lb. behemoth muscle head who probably wouldn't waste his time fighting them anyway.(ever notice that the truly "capable" ones are rarely instigating or involved in these things it's always the little guys who feel they have something to prove?).Back to my point-If you are a small bones ecto-morph you can take steroids till cows take over the planet and you wont likely match the size of an endo/mesomorph who lifts but doesnt take steroids- in fact you can take two twin brothers and give one steroids and a Television remote and the other an intense lifting regimen and come back in two years and the natural guy will be bigger!there are a lot of kids taking steroids to be like the big guys but it doesnt work!The big guys were big anyway, lifting developed potential they already had and then adding steroids to the mix enabled them to break through some plateaus by MOSTLY SPEEDING RECOVERY TIME!!!I could tell you of my own experience with the above topics but since anyone can create a fictitious character on the NET it wouldn't mean a hill of beans -I instead invite you to actually read some of the scientific periodicals and lab studies -theres many online or buy/subscribe to "muscular Developement" a B.B. mag that actually has frank , honest , scientific backed content, to see that before you slam the "big guy's" and dismiss them out of hand - maybe youshould learn a bit more so you dont embarrass yourself if you ever meet one.(That said Greg Valentine is NOT a real B.B.-if you meet him karate away!!!):)

Krabat
Thursday, December 15th, 2005, 12:10 PM
Another misconception I see perpetrated throughout this thread are the ideas that bigger muscles are going to slow you down (usually related to "fighting prowess"), and that if someone looks massive -it must be all the steroids.Let me address them in order.

1) Power lifting will definitely decrease your reaction time - not in the time it takes to get from the eye to the brain but in the time it takes for the brain to move the fist . Power lifting develops red fast twitch fibers / bodybuilding develops more white slow twitch fibers . Bruce Jenner (1976 olympic decathlon champion) relates his victory to incorporating power lifting to his training regimen.At the time the antiquated idea that muscle would slow you down -make you inflexible and stiff , was the common attitude in sports.Today EVERYONE from teenis greats to boxing champs incorporates SOME form of powerlifting/strength training to thier regimen for the benefits of DECREASED reaction time(building the red fast twitch fibers quickens the synapses firing time), as well as for the additional strength and power it can add.As a result -todays atheletes are stronger , set higher records and generaly outperform the atheletes of yesteryear to an incredible degree.Of course steroids have also made thier contribution but we're getting to that...BTW let's have a reality check-I'm a little old for the "my martial art's can beat your powerlifting thing" but without going into detail -I've had my share of conflict and street violence , although at my age now I feel that unless directly attacked -involvement in "scuffles" is simply beneath my maturity.No knock on serious martial artist types but it 's my experience that in real life those with a boxing, wrestling, or powerlifting background usually wipe the floor with them.That martial artist guy may hit and hit but once that powerlifter gets a hold of him ....And once that "slow,musclebound" powerlifter's fist DOES connect the force behind it will put our martial artists head thru the wall.I suppose the most effective fighter would be someone who combines both strength traing and some form of martial arts with more martial and less art- meaning-until you've been hit HARD in the face in real life enuff times to get used to the mental and physical effect- you are not ready for "real-life" street fight against anyone who has , he'll get hit and keep coming -one good smack in the eye or nose and you'll be learning quickly why some of the best street fighters come from a boxing background.Mike Tyson is an example of a truly fearsome being he has the boxing , powerlifting , and real life "street fighting " all going for him AND INSPITE OF HIS POWERLIFTING/STRENGTH TRAINING incorporated into his training managed to be world champ !Go FIGURE!


2) "boy he's big and muscular - it's because he MUST be juiced out of his mind!" usually said by the same adolescent type claiming their "martial arts training"(Ever get the feeling most of these are really 15-21 year old boys who's "training" consists of reading karate mags?") would enable them to destroy the 260 lb. behemoth muscle head who probably wouldn't waste his time fighting them anyway.(ever notice that the truly "capable" ones are rarely instigating or involved in these things it's always the little guys who feel they have something to prove?).Back to my point-If you are a small bones ecto-morph you can take steroids till cows take over the planet and you wont likely match the size of an endo/mesomorph who lifts but doesnt take steroids- in fact you can take two twin brothers and give one steroids and a Television remote and the other an intense lifting regimen and come back in two years and the natural guy will be bigger!there are a lot of kids taking steroids to be like the big guys but it doesnt work!The big guys were big anyway, lifting developed potential they already had and then adding steroids to the mix enabled them to break through some plateaus by MOSTLY SPEEDING RECOVERY TIME!!!I could tell you of my own experience with the above topics but since anyone can create a fictitious character on the NET it wouldn't mean a hill of beans -I instead invite you to actually read some of the scientific periodicals and lab studies -theres many online or buy/subscribe to "muscular Developement" a B.B. mag that actually has frank , honest , scientific backed content, to see that before you slam the "big guy's" and dismiss them out of hand - maybe youshould learn a bit more so you dont embarrass yourself if you ever meet one.(That said Greg Valentine is NOT a real B.B.-if you meet him karate away!!!):)
I might not agree with you on the Nutrition part of things and we probable never will. But I do agree with you on just about everithing else you have just posted. You pretty much said it all.

I am a drug free bodybuilder but I do a large portion of my training more like a powerlifter I have found its combined results superior compared to just doing high reps and short rest training. I have done Karate in the past and I have never realy bean in to any street fights but if I was forced in to one and I had to chose between my muscles and my Karate experiance I would pik the Muscles.

Here is a link to what I meant about the Atkins Diet.http://www.aussiebodies.com.au/news/2004/protein+the+key+to+low+carb+diet+success .htm

sceagacros
Thursday, December 15th, 2005, 01:48 PM
Kempolatoss-
Checked out the Atkins link and realized we may not be in disagreement after all . The key is the term "satiety" , research does show that protein will satisfy you for longer periods of time and over all this would lead to less caloric consumption - and weight loss.I geuss your way of stating it -"killing the appetite" may have been misconstrued by myself to mean something else.Consuming a high protein low carb diet for a length of time will also change your muscle/fat body ratio , and since muscle weighs more than fat I would tend to surmise that Atkins visible effects would outweigh results from the scale wich is not to deny that there are definite measurable results.
So it turns out that in reality we do see eye to eye on some nutritional matters-I think I misunderstood what you were stating as far as the Atkins remark .I'm willing to admit that You may be proven right on some other points in the future as medical and sport science seems to disagree with it's previous years findings on a regular basis!Hopefully I haven't misunderstood any other of your points , and if I have I'd be more than happy to acknowledge any error/misunderstanding.
cheers,
Sceagecros:)

Krabat
Saturday, December 17th, 2005, 12:01 PM
Kempolatoss-
Checked out the Atkins link and realized we may not be in disagreement after all . The key is the term "satiety" , research does show that protein will satisfy you for longer periods of time and over all this would lead to less caloric consumption - and weight loss.I geuss your way of stating it -"killing the appetite" may have been misconstrued by myself to mean something else.Consuming a high protein low carb diet for a length of time will also change your muscle/fat body ratio , and since muscle weighs more than fat I would tend to surmise that Atkins visible effects would outweigh results from the scale wich is not to deny that there are definite measurable results.
So it turns out that in reality we do see eye to eye on some nutritional matters-I think I misunderstood what you were stating as far as the Atkins remark .I'm willing to admit that You may be proven right on some other points in the future as medical and sport science seems to disagree with it's previous years findings on a regular basis!Hopefully I haven't misunderstood any other of your points , and if I have I'd be more than happy to acknowledge any error/misunderstanding.
cheers,
Sceagecros:)

I'ts al good man.
My posts probably lak detail mainly because it is almost like writing a book. Like in your previous post where you explained about the Karate verses Muscleman fight. This is something that I had to explain to people so many times that i'm now at a stage that i'm gettin realy tired of it so I just leave it. Im glad you took the time to write this long expanation doug. I first got interested in Muscle building because I was a smal skinny boy I bouht a barbell and some weights and started training withaot a trainer or any knowledge. Thraining then became the main focus in my live and I started educating miselfe from books and magazines I took a lot of interest in alternative training methods and Nutrition. I then decide that I want to become a Personal trainer and I went to a learnig instidut and Studied Sports for two yers learning mostly things like Anatomy, Phisiology, Sports Nutrition, Exercise prescription, Body alignment etc. as wellas some management stuff which I realy hated. I intensively continued my personal research from Books magazines and the Internet. And I did a lot of experimenting on miselve over the years and i would study a method and then I would trie it out and most of the time It would not work significantly. But ocasionally i would tri something that worked very well. But as live goes There were many trainers in the erea and not many gyms and I never got to work as a personal trainer. Once I had discovered what I was looking for I continued on with that But I had stoped doing further research and reading and put my spare time in to other intrests such as Drawing and Painting, Guitar building and home recording and other things. As you might be able to imagine the first things you forget is Numbers and scientific terms. I have atempted to find some of the websites where I got alot of my theoris from that proofed sucsessful when I tried them out. and they where explained in great scientific detail which I am unable to recal by memory the only thing I remember Is how to do it. Sadly I was unable to find them, and I don't have the saved version in my hard drive animore because I lost it all when my computer cought a virus. Otherwise I would post you the links. I understand thet some methods can seam strange withaot proper explanations and scientific backup. Basically what I ended up with is a training routine similair to Bulgerian Powerlifting routines but I have gifen up training recently because I have a shortage of money and I'm safing by eating very little amounts of food which obfously makes it imossible to hold on to any serious muscle mass. I will get bak in to training once i have bean able to buy the necessary home recording equipment and am able to afford more food again.

Greetings
Kempolatoss