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Hardwig
Thursday, July 14th, 2005, 07:30 AM
Does anyone here knows what are the blondest countries, in order? May be from a scientific source or from your own experience visiting these countries.My guess is:



1.Scandinavia(Iceland,Denmark,Sweden,Nor way,Finland) but I don't know the order

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.Germany or Poland

7.

8.Holland

9.Czech Republic

10.England

11.Switzerland

12.France

I wrote only about the countries that I visited(exept Iceland),so you can miss the Baltic Countries,Russia,Hungary,etc.

If you have some experience in trips your opinion will be very appreciable,agreeing with me or not.

Todesritter
Thursday, July 14th, 2005, 07:36 AM
I believe Finland and their cousins to the south are among the blondest in the world (in terms on incidence/percentage blondism per population ), but do not quote me, as I am still laughing about men kicking Bears, and bears hitting back.

Sigurdr
Thursday, July 14th, 2005, 09:03 AM
Well,my travel experience in many european countries and my good anthropological knownledge suggest me this classification:Scandinavian and Nordic area:1)finland.2)Sweden and Estonia.3)Denmark./Continental Europe:1)Germany.2)Poland.3)Nederland. Comments:astonish,not find in this my personal classification countries like Norway,Iceland or Faer Oer? Several people in that nations aren't really blondies.But they have dark,dark brown,even black hair shades.Everybody can,for example make a trip in west norway(bergen or molde,for istance)or seydisfjordur or Thorburnshavn(iceland and faeroer).Well,continental towns like Hamburg or Tallinn are much more blondies.Another interesting example.My personal experience(anthropology or european trips...)suggest that if you pick up ten babies from Mostar(bosnia)and compare them with ten babies from Lerwick(shetland)you can be sure that 7 bosnian babies are pure blonds,and only 3-4 shetlander babies are!In the balcanic area,bosnia for istance,many babies are blonds.Shetland,indeed,last century an norwegian territory,is the most brunette area of nordic countries.










Does anyone here knows what are the blondest countries, in order? May be from a scientific source or from your own experience visiting these countries.My guess is:



1.Scandinavia(Iceland,Denmark,Sweden,Nor way,Finland) but I don't know the order

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.Germany or Poland

7.

8.Holland

9.Czech Republic

10.England

11.Switzerland

12.France

I wrote only about the countries that I visited(exept Iceland),so you can miss the Baltic Countries,Russia,Hungary,etc.

If you have some experience in trips your opinion will be very appreciable,agreeing with me or not.

Huzar
Thursday, July 14th, 2005, 09:50 AM
It would be useful in this case a complete list of blondism in european countries; i can report my DATA from Biasutti (blondism, in Biasutti evaluation scale, is considered in all its shades. Blondism in it's wider sense, i mean)o f some country



SWITZERLAND : 25-30%

AUSTRIA : 30%

GERMANY : 30-35%

LITUANIA : 47%

POLAND : 42-47%

Triglav
Thursday, July 14th, 2005, 11:13 AM
1. Estonia
2. Finland

According to Coon, of course.

Huzar
Thursday, July 14th, 2005, 12:27 PM
1. Estonia
2. Finland

According to Coon, of course.


Coon, is n't the only researcher in the field. Indeed i have DATA from local anthropologist for the countries you are interested :


NIILO PESONEN (finnish researcher) for FINLAND :

BLOND : 42%

BROWN : 35-40%

BRUNET : 18-23%

*(The darkes shades were found in the SUOMI area)


ESTONIA :


Blonds : 49-53%

Rhydderch
Thursday, July 14th, 2005, 02:40 PM
suggest that if you pick up ten babies from Mostar(bosnia)and compare them with ten babies from Lerwick(shetland)you can be sure that 7 bosnian babies are pure blonds,and only 3-4 shetlander babies are!In the balcanic area,bosnia for istance,many babies are blonds.Shetland,indeed,last century an norwegian territory,is the most brunette area of nordic countries.
That's interesting. Although I've never been to Shetland, I have seen a couple of books about the islands, with lots of pictures of the local inhabitants; I also noticed that they were often quite dark, with little of the rufous aspect common in much of the British Isles. It's quite possible that this is because the early Brunn inhabitants of Scotland didn't venture out that far, and so the migrations of Atlanto-Meds and other dark types would have populated the islands first, and had little influence from lighter types (except the later Vikings).

Nordraserei
Thursday, July 14th, 2005, 03:48 PM
Call me crazy, but isn't brown and brunet the same thing?

NIILO PESONEN (finnish researcher) for FINLAND :

BLOND : 42%

BROWN : 35-40%

BRUNET : 18-23%

Huzar
Thursday, July 14th, 2005, 05:23 PM
Call me crazy, but isn't brown and brunet the same thing?

OOps !! Sorry, Nordraserei, you're right. The reason of my error is that my mother tongue, Brunet and brown aren't the same thing ; "BRUNET" means more a dark brown-Black shade, while "BROWN" means more the intermediate shades like medium-brown and light-brown.

Unfortunately, i write in english, although i still think in italian...........;)

János Hunyadi
Thursday, July 14th, 2005, 05:25 PM
From what I've heard the blondest countries in Europe are generally found in the Baltic region (Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, northern Poland, and Belarus).

The Vepsians (Finnic minority in NW Russia) have the highest blondism rate in Europe. (Around 65% from what I've heard).

Unfortunately they are small in #, declining in population, and are becoming subjected to Russification. :sad2:

Triglav
Friday, July 15th, 2005, 03:07 AM
Coon, is n't the only researcher in the field. Indeed i have DATA from local anthropologist for the countries you are interested :


NIILO PESONEN (finnish researcher) for FINLAND :

BLOND : 42%

BROWN : 35-40%

BRUNET : 18-23%

*(The darkes shades were found in the SUOMI area)


ESTONIA :


Blonds : 49-53%















I know. That's why I 'm very appreciative of any other stats. Thank you! :thumbsup

However, I find it hard to believe that Poland is blonder than Finland.

Triglav
Friday, July 15th, 2005, 03:16 AM
I know. That's why I 'm very appreciative of any other stats. Thank you! :thumbsup

However, I find it hard to believe that Poland is blonder than Finland.
@Celtic Tiger: I've just noticed that your data is not from the same author. Hence, it's nearly impossible to compare the figures. Do you, by any chance, know which pigmentation scale they used?

Triglav
Friday, July 15th, 2005, 03:18 AM
Coon, is n't the only researcher in the field.

Skadi statement of the year. :D

Huzar
Friday, July 15th, 2005, 06:39 AM
@Celtic Tiger: I've just noticed that your data is not from the same author. Hence, it's nearly impossible to compare the figures. Do you, by any chance, know which pigmentation scale they used?

You're right, Triglav. I've reported DATA from different authors, therefore a comparation is very difficult. Excuse me.

On FINLAND, you're right : it can't be less blonder than Estonia. Anyway keep in mind that the finnish anthropologist (NIILO PESONEN) probably was very strict in his definition of blondism, and this limit the blondism rate to 41%. You know, very often, north-European researchers have a stricter concept of "blondism" than us, so their percentages are reduced if comparate to our standards.

Probably that 41% of FINLAND could be 60% if measured by BIASUTTI.

Triglav
Saturday, July 16th, 2005, 06:40 AM
You're right, Triglav. I've reported DATA from different authors, therefore a comparation is very difficult. Excuse me.

On FINLAND, you're right : it can't be less blonder than Estonia. Anyway keep in mind that the finnish anthropologist (NIILO PESONEN) probably was very strict in his definition of blondism, and this limit the blondism rate to 41%. You know, very often, north-European researchers have a stricter concept of "blondism" than us, so their percentages are reduced if comparate to our standards.

Probably that 41% of FINLAND could be 60% if measured by BIASUTTI.
Yeah, thus the only objective standard are pigmentation charts.

fareast
Sunday, May 21st, 2006, 12:13 PM
I feel danish is, for danmark is surrounded by nordic countries.

Ahti
Friday, May 26th, 2006, 02:57 PM
I voted Finland. It's a proven fact that today Finland has the most blondes in the world.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2284783.stm



Researchers predict the last truly natural blonde will be born in Finland - the country with the highest proportion of blondes.

And no, i do not mean to insult anyone by this, or claim that Finland is the ultimate überduper-Aryan country - its just about haircolour. :thumbup

fareast
Saturday, May 27th, 2006, 02:50 AM
Some Finnish soccers are very brunet such as Littmanen.

Theudiskaz
Saturday, May 27th, 2006, 02:56 AM
I voted Finland. It's a proven fact that today Finland has the most blondes in the world.That's right.

Ahti
Saturday, May 27th, 2006, 07:55 AM
Some Finnish soccers are very brunet such as Littmanen.

Yes, you are correct.

IMO Litmanen is not even a brunet, seems he has very dark hair... Quite extraordinarily dark if you ask me :-O

EarthSoul
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 07:08 PM
Well maybe Finland has the most blondes, but it's not said that it is the most blonde country! It has (for a nordish country) quite a lot of people and most are nordic and blonde, but maybe the percent number for blondes isn't the highest in scandinavia.

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Prince Eugen
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 07:41 PM
IMHO Sweden!

Glynd Eastŵd
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 07:47 PM
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Estonia actually has the most blondes as a percentage of its population. Finland merely has a larger population than Estonia is what that BBC study is saying.

fareast
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 03:00 AM
As folk Frisians in north Holland may be the most blond.

Lissu
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 11:24 AM
Yes, you are correct.

IMO Litmanen is not even a brunet, seems he has very dark hair... Quite extraordinarily dark if you ask me :-OLitmanen obviously has foreign admix.

It's not only his hair, his eyes are swarthy as well, while about 90% of Finns have light eyes.

Lissu
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 11:29 AM
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Estonia actually has the most blondes as a percentage of its population. Finland merely has a larger population than Estonia is what that BBC study is saying.This could be true, most Estonians I have seen are very light blonde.

But then... people's definition for blonde varies quite a bit. IMHO I'm not blonde even though my hair colour is dark blonde. But dark blonde is not blonde after all... But it's propably "just blonde" for Southern Euros and non-Euros.

I count only golden blonde and light blonde as blonde myself.

Alkman
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 01:10 PM
It's not even in the voting list but the "blondest" community in Greece is the Polish one. Maybe it has to do with the specific provinces that Poles who emigrate here come from.

Lissu
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 01:16 PM
In fact polls like this are futile since it's a proven fact that East-Baltic region (Scandinavia = West-Baltic, Fennoscandia+Baltia = East Baltic) is the most blonde one on earth. I don't have the map in hand where it's demonstrated though, but it must have been posted somewhere here though.

Glenlivet
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 01:54 PM
We need data, so we can compare. It depends what you call blonde. Lighter than medium brown, is in many works, considered blonde.

I rate them as follows (I have included Estonia).

1. Estonia
2. Finland
3. Sweden
4. Norway (some may call Norwegians blonder, perhaps true if we only consider the very blonde, but there is also a significant dark brown, and even nearly black haired minority, in Norway, which is also present in Sweden, but is less common)
5. Denmark
6. Netherlands/Holland (should be the northern part, the southern contain Mediterranid, Dinarid and Alpinid elements)
7. Iceland (significant dark haired minority, more so than Norway, around 13 % in many works)
8. England (a lot of variation, between social classes and regions, the eastern half of the country is blonder)
9. Germany (NW Germany should be quite blonde, but the rest of the country not as much)

You should add Estonia to the poll. Estonian blondism is more East-Baltid than Nordid, in origin (Lundman, 1943, 1977).

The shade of blonde differ between NW and NE Europe. Read my post in the Stefan Effenberg thread:

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=440092

There is much more golden blondism in NW Europe. The explanation lie in how an individual become ginger/red haired. See the text below, which I posted 07-12-2005, at Skadi.

The red hair series is different from the brown, which ranges from darkest brown to lightest blonde. When hair reflects less than 47 % as much light as 546 mu wave-lengths as it does at 700 mu wave-lenght, the eye distinguishes the colour as reddish or red. The resulting impression is brown when the reflectance is greater than 47 %. The curves of black, brown and blonds are almost straight lines. However, the reds show an upward curvature in the region of the green. Thus, the difference between brown and red is due to that the latter show much less reflectance in the green (and blue) bands, and not a disparity in the red bands of the spectrum.

There are really three series: the pure melanotic series ranging from black through the flat browns and light ash browns to almost colourless ash blonde; a red series ranging from intense red to very light red and red-golden; a mixed series in which melanotic pigment is found with the red pigment. This last series may range from black (the red pigment being perfectly masked) through darker to lighter red-browns. Studies show that when red hair is bleached with peroxide a lighter red of higher purity (the degree of similarity between the colour of the sample and the colour of pure spectrum light with a wave-length equal to the dominant wave-length of the sample) and brightness are produced. The dominant wavelength is not changed though, and the spectrophotometric curve shows the same bend upward in the red. It is still red.

It seems very probable that red-haired individuals often result from the crossings of a black-haired parent in whom there is a good deal recessive red-gold pigment, with a blond mate in whose hair is little pigment of any kind, and some of that little red-gold pigment. Pure red heads are thus a result of segregation of the red-gold pigment. The freckles represent the tanning capabilities of the brunet stock, irregularly distributed in the epithelial cells. The milky white skin is the inheritance of the blond stock. The reddish tinge of the hair is oftener seen in the beard, which I have myself observed. The axillary and pubic hair are other areas where it is more common than on the head. (information on hair series is mostly taken from E.A Hooton)

SW Finns and western Estonians, are very blonde. They are predominantly East-Nordid (Lundman's Aistin) and somewhat East-Baltid (Tavastid type).

Finnic groups are probably the most blonde people of Europe. Their blondism is often devoid of phaeomelanin.

Thruthheim
Sunday, June 4th, 2006, 04:49 PM
Only 4 countries in the equation if you ask me..
Sweden
Finland
Norway
Iceland

Zagas
Sunday, June 4th, 2006, 05:08 PM
I think Sweden is the country with more blonde native people.

Finland has a higher proportion of blonde people in those studies because Finland has much less immigration than Sweden.
But if we think about native people and forget the blasted immigrants so Sweden is really the blondest country.

Lissu
Sunday, June 4th, 2006, 09:04 PM
I think Sweden is the country with more blonde native people.

Finland has a higher proportion of blonde people in those studies because Finland has much less immigration than Sweden.
But if we think about native people and forget the damn fuck immigrants so Sweden is really the blondest country.Those studies have been made long before any non-European mass immigration.

Susisaari
Monday, June 5th, 2006, 11:09 PM
I think Sweden is the country with more blonde native people.

Finland has a higher proportion of blonde people in those studies because Finland has much less immigration than Sweden.
But if we think about native people and forget the blasted immigrants so Sweden is really the blondest country.

About 10% of Swedes are immigrants and about 20% have some immigrant ancestry. This is not enough to explain the difference in the proportion of blond people between Finland and Sweden.

BTW, dark Atlanto-Mediterranid types are rather common in Sweden (among the actual Swedes, not immigrants) whereas they are totally nonexistent in Finland except among ethnic Swedes. All Finns are either Nordic or "East Baltic", although I don't personally believe in the existence of a separate "East Baltic" subrace because the very same people who are called "East Baltic" if they are Finns are usually called Nordic if they are Swedes or Norwegians etc.

vingul
Monday, June 5th, 2006, 11:53 PM
All Finns are either Nordic or "East Baltic", although I don't personally believe in the existence of a separate "East Baltic" subrace because the very same people who are called "East Baltic" if they are Finns are usually called Nordic if they are Swedes or Norwegians etc.

Finland has a large Nordid population, characterized by a prevalence of Corded features. There is, however, little point in questioning the presence of CM (incl. Baltid) and Lappoid strains in the Finnish population, just as there is little point in doubting the assertion that Norway is predominantly CM. This is recognized by every anthropological survey dealing with the Finnish population, and is quite obvious to the naked eye. There is also little point in these constant punitive references to the small fraction of Skadi members whose behavior conforms to that which you consider "usual". Most participants here recognize the presence of "East-Baltids" (the stabilized Baltid-Lappoid element) as well as assorted Lappoid increments in the Swedish and Norwegian populations.

Mercator
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 01:13 AM
I voted Finland.

And, Who has the most dark population in Europe?
(native, not inmigrants;))

Jäger
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 09:39 AM
9. Germany (NW Germany should be quite blonde, but the rest of the country not as much)
While I agree with your listing, how do you come to the conclusion that it is the western north?
Basically the Prussians are of baltic people descendant, and in my experience even more blonde than the western north of germany

Here the photo I posted once already, its from Landhagen, North-East Germany
http://www.landhagen.de/fremdseiten/8gftRSgh546HnJasG/Erstes%20Klassenfoto.gif

Lissu
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 10:44 AM
While I agree with your listing, how do you come to the conclusion that it is the western north?
Basically the Prussians are of baltic people descendant, and in my experience even more blonde than the western north of germany

Here the photo I posted once already, its from Landhagen, North-East Germany
Children are way less pigmented than adults ;)

Jäger
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 10:52 AM
Children are way less pigmented than adults ;) This very true, but a black haired children is not likely to become blond when an adult, so this is at least a prequesite for blondism.
Out of this 20+ kids, chances are that at least some stay blonde. While in some other parts of germany, you will have first graders who are already brownish.
Furthermore, I don't base my expereince solely on this picture :D Just trust me girl!

Mannerheim
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 11:26 AM
It is hard to say.

Difference between nordic countries is marginal imho.

Lissu
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 11:42 AM
It's true that black (or simply dark) haired children won't become blonde as adult. I would say that from your picture perhaps 5-6 children has good chances to stay blonde.

And I have no doubts that they represent the area where they are from, no worries Jäger ;)


This very true, but a black haired children is not likely to become blond when an adult, so this is at least a prequesite for blondism.
Out of this 20+ kids, chances are that at least some stay blonde. While in some other parts of germany, you will have first graders who are already brownish.
Furthermore, I don't base my expereince solely on this picture :D Just trust me girl!

Susisaari
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 07:31 PM
It's true that black (or simply dark) haired children won't become blonde as adult. I would say that from your picture perhaps 5-6 children has good chances to stay blonde.


Out of those 20 children, 2 were red-haired and 7 were blond. If you count the red-haired as blond, do you suppose that 6 out of 9, i.e. 2/3 stay blond in their adulthood?

Galaico
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 07:37 PM
I count 14 blond children. I suppose, as Lissu said in a previous post, that the term blond may be very relative, the Spanish definition will be pretty different from the Finnish one,

Thruthheim
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 07:57 PM
I count 14 blond children. I suppose, as Lissu said in a previous post, that the term blond may be very relative, the Spanish definition will be pretty different from the Finnish one,

I count 12 or 13. You are probably right, we all probably have a different acceptance of what is Blonde. In the hair spectrum, Blonde goes deep into what the average person would think is medium Brown. So it all depends. Maybe the Finns base it on the Very clear blondes, and not the darker Blondes.

Lissu
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 09:03 PM
I count 12 or 13. You are probably right, we all probably have a different acceptance of what is Blonde. In the hair spectrum, Blonde goes deep into what the average person would think is medium Brown. So it all depends. Maybe the Finns base it on the Very clear blondes, and not the darker Blondes.Yes :) Definitions vary... My hair colour may be dark blonde, but I don't see myself as "blonde", because dark blonde is after all quite dark.

Those children with white blonde hair will propably stay blonde. But not necessarily... some people's hair darken quite early, and some other's hair colour reaches their final hair colour quite young.

fareast
Wednesday, June 7th, 2006, 03:46 AM
In my standard there are 19 blonds in the 21 kids,and at least 7 of them are golden blond.

Theudiskaz
Wednesday, June 7th, 2006, 03:59 AM
I count only 10 I would consider blonde.

Lissu
Wednesday, June 7th, 2006, 05:13 AM
In my standard there are 19 blonds in the 21 kids,and at least 7 of them are golden blond.I know that Asians consider anything not black as blonde ;)

Mannerheim
Wednesday, June 7th, 2006, 05:50 AM
6 brown
4 light brown
1 light reddish brown


1 red


6 pure golden blond
1 dark blond
1 reddish blond

Glenlivet
Wednesday, June 7th, 2006, 07:41 AM
You are probably right. The NW Germans are mainly blonde Nordids (with Faelid), whereas the NE Germans, although not necessarily higher-skulled, are supposedly less Nordid. There is supposedly a greater East-Baltid (and various other) elements in the region. One should also not forget that the NE Germans are also descended from people migrating north from southern Germany and of Dutchmen.

The northeastern part of Germany is anthropologically close to folk stocks in western Estonia and SW Finland, according to anthropological maps of Lundman. The people are lower-skulled though. Lundman (1940) wrote that the South Baltic folk stock, which the NE Germans belong to, have less East-Baltid race (Tavastid?), but have more of various central - and also somewhat eastern European racial influnces.


While I agree with your listing, how do you come to the conclusion that it is the western north?
Basically the Prussians are of baltic people descendant, and in my experience even more blonde than the western north of germany

Thruthheim
Wednesday, June 7th, 2006, 10:58 AM
http://i6.tinypic.com/120htok.jpg

The ones whom i've encircled in red are the ones that i class as blonde.

Susisaari
Wednesday, June 7th, 2006, 10:12 PM
6 brown
4 light brown
1 light reddish brown


1 red


6 pure golden blond
1 dark blond
1 reddish blond


Apparently we pretty much agree on the definition of blond because I said there were 2 redheads and 7 blonds. One of the 2 kids I called red-haired is reddish blond in your opinion, and while I said there were 7 blonds, you differentiated between 6 golden blonds and 1 dark blond. But anyway, we are on the same page.

I don't understand how anyone can get substantially different results by looking at these kids.

This casts a shadow of doubt over the classification threads here. If people don't even know what blond is, how can they classify people's subraces?

Lissu
Wednesday, June 7th, 2006, 10:29 PM
This casts a shadow of doubt over the classification threads here. If people don't even know what blond is, how can they classify people's subraces?It's a fact that people see colours differently, and have different definitions for colours. To Asians for example everything not raven black is "blonde", as in them black is pretty much the only hair colour they have unless they mix with Europids.

As for classificating people here, well, apparently some people are more skilled in it than the others. I'd say Agrippa and Vingul for example seem quite good with classifications, and there is others also :) I wouldn't take too much stress about it ;)

Susisaari
Wednesday, June 7th, 2006, 11:04 PM
It's a fact that people see colours differently, and have different definitions for colours. To Asians for example everything not raven black is "blonde", as in them black is pretty much the only hair colour they have unless they mix with Europids.

As for classificating people here, well, apparently some people are more skilled in it than the others. I'd say Agrippa and Vingul for example seem quite good with classifications, and there is others also :) I wouldn't take too much stress about it ;)

BTW, have you cleared your private message inbox? I tried to send you a private message yesterday but your box was full.

Jäger
Thursday, June 8th, 2006, 09:50 AM
This casts a shadow of doubt over the classification threads here. If people don't even know what blond is, how can they classify people's subraces?
Haircolor is just a very minor sign of ones subrace! People tend to classify everyone with brown (or darker hair) hair as Atlantid or something, while it is easily possibly that he is pure Nordid.
Most uneducated people then think, everyone with blonde hair must be Nordid which in return is not true.

Like Glenlivet said, NW Germany may be more Nordid/Faellid but the East can be more blonde because of a Baltid element.

Fionn
Sunday, June 11th, 2006, 09:36 PM
Finland. Supposedly about 70% of their population is blonde-haired.

Doerin
Monday, July 24th, 2006, 05:05 AM
We need data, so we can compare. It depends what you call blonde. Lighter than medium brown, is in many works, considered blonde.

I rate them as follows (I have included Estonia).

1. Estonia
2. Finland
3. Sweden
4. Norway (some may call Norwegians blonder, perhaps true if we only consider the very blonde, but there is also a significant dark brown, and even nearly black haired minority, in Norway, which is also present in Sweden, but is less common)
5. Denmark
6. Netherlands/Holland (should be the northern part, the southern contain Mediterranid, Dinarid and Alpinid elements)
7. Iceland (significant dark haired minority, more so than Norway, around 13 % in many works)
8. England (a lot of variation, between social classes and regions, the eastern half of the country is blonder)
9. Germany (NW Germany should be quite blonde, but the rest of the country not as much)

You should add Estonia to the poll. Estonian blondism is more East-Baltid than Nordid, in origin (Lundman, 1943, 1977).


Estonians are mostly blonde, but Estonia surely can't be the most blond country in Europe, 'cause 40 % of population there are Russians, and only about 40 % of Russians are blonde. Quite the same about Latvia.

Lissu
Wednesday, July 26th, 2006, 09:31 AM
Estonians are mostly blonde, but Estonia surely can't be the most blond country in Europe, 'cause 40 % of population there are Russians, and only about 40 % of Russians are blonde. Quite the same about Latvia....So? Russians in the Baltics are not Estonians or Latvians, they are not natives there and thus they don't count.

Sebastian Archer
Wednesday, July 26th, 2006, 05:26 PM
I think Estonia should be included in the poll along with other Baltic states
.

Pro-Alpine
Wednesday, July 26th, 2006, 10:32 PM
I voted Finland.

And, Who has the most dark population in Europe?
(native, not inmigrants;))

The Maltese would be most dark haired.

fareast
Friday, July 28th, 2006, 02:31 AM
I can't understand why a non Indo-European folk became the most blond people.

Theudiskaz
Friday, July 28th, 2006, 02:47 AM
They did not become the most blond people. The Finns have always been blonde. Blondism is not relegated to Indo-Europeans or even Nordids.;)

PeterThaGreat
Friday, July 28th, 2006, 10:53 AM
They did not become the most blond people. The Finns have always been blonde. Blondism is not relegated to Indo-Europeans or even Nordids.;)


Correct!

Blosdism is relegated to nordish people!

Austrvegr
Friday, July 28th, 2006, 02:22 PM
I am sure that blondism in the Baltic area is a pre-Finno-Ugrian phenomenon. And I can not agree that Estonians are the blondest or significantly blonder than Russians. I have seen many dark Estonian types, and search for Estonians in Google does not return many blond(e) people.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d169/-aaabbb-/estonians00.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d169/-aaabbb-/estonians01.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d169/-aaabbb-/estonians03.jpg

Austrvegr
Friday, July 28th, 2006, 02:28 PM
Accidentally, here's my kindergarten pic taken back in the 1970s. But mind you, there are a few non-ethnic Russians.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d169/-aaabbb-/5b3ab07c.jpg

Glenlivet
Friday, July 28th, 2006, 03:21 PM
Not only that, the colour of the picture is too yellow and dark.


But mind you, there are a few non-ethnic Russians.
[/IMG]

Mercator
Saturday, July 29th, 2006, 12:14 AM
I can't understand why a non Indo-European folk became the most blond people.

"non Indo-European"?:-O

Mannerheim
Saturday, July 29th, 2006, 11:55 AM
"non Indo-European"?:-O

There are still some idiots in skadi who thinks that linguistic group means same as racial group or they connect language to race whats idiotic.

Mannerheim
Saturday, July 29th, 2006, 12:03 PM
Apparently we pretty much agree on the definition of blond because I said there were 2 redheads and 7 blonds. One of the 2 kids I called red-haired is reddish blond in your opinion, and while I said there were 7 blonds, you differentiated between 6 golden blonds and 1 dark blond. But anyway, we are on the same page.

I don't understand how anyone can get substantially different results by looking at these kids.

This casts a shadow of doubt over the classification threads here. If people don't even know what blond is, how can they classify people's subraces?

I just noticed this old message of yours.

Yes,this our result is common to people who lives in nordic countries where you see all the time blond haired people.

And by nordic countries i mean this

http://www.folknorth.org/norden_regioner2.gif

not racially nordic countries just to make it clear.

Allthough pigmentation is not allways tied to sub-type it is clear indicator what points the direction to the type imho.

Like halstatts for example are almost always blond haired.Pure halstatts i mean.Blondness means pureness if we talk about halstatts.One of the biggest criterions.

goldgrube
Saturday, July 29th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Accidentally, here's my kindergarten pic taken back in the 1970s. But mind you, there are a few non-ethnic Russians.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d169/-aaabbb-/5b3ab07c.jpg


Here are two of mine, around 1986-87. I'm originaly from Murmansk, a city founded in 1917(?). The population is strictly diverse coming from most other places in the country, so it doesn't show much or any lappoid admixture as one would think it should because the natives were some countable saami tribes which by this date have entirely lost their culture.

I'm 4th from the right in the lower row in the first picture. ("s figoj")

Theudiskaz
Saturday, July 29th, 2006, 08:16 PM
I must say, posting pictures of young children is not very helpful in determining the blondness of a given country. The vast majority of Northern European children are blondish. This does not indicate whether they will remain blonde into adolescence and adulthood.

goldgrube
Saturday, July 29th, 2006, 08:20 PM
I must say, posting pictures of young children is not very helpful in determining the blondness of a given country. The vast majority of Northern European children are blondish. This does not indicate whether they will remain blonde into adolescence and adulthood.

I guess it's more helpful in determining the darkness
Surely dark children will never get blond

goldgrube
Saturday, July 29th, 2006, 08:27 PM
But as a rule of thumb, if the eyebrows are pale, the child will remain more or less blond

Mercator
Sunday, July 30th, 2006, 01:05 AM
There are still some idiots in skadi who thinks that linguistic group means same as racial group or they connect language to race whats idiotic.

Yeah, or they connect religion to race: the bosnians and albanians are two good examples; a guy reads "muslim" in the profile and say "Turanid", "Armenoid", etc.:D

Greetings, marshall Mannerheim!:thumbup

Here
Thursday, August 3rd, 2006, 08:41 AM
http://i6.tinypic.com/120htok.jpg

The ones whom i've encircled in red are the ones that i class as blonde.








I agree with you :thumbup

What do you think?


There are two light brown haired (a girl and a boy) and a redhead in the rest. Do you agree? The rest has mostly brown hair.

Mr_Doctor
Wednesday, February 21st, 2007, 03:30 PM
We need data, so we can compare. It depends what you call blonde. Lighter than medium brown, is in many works, considered blonde.

I rate them as follows (I have included Estonia).

1. Estonia
2. Finland
3. Sweden
4. Norway (some may call Norwegians blonder, perhaps true if we only consider the very blonde, but there is also a significant dark brown, and even nearly black haired minority, in Norway, which is also present in Sweden, but is less common)
5. Denmark
6. Netherlands/Holland (should be the northern part, the southern contain Mediterranid, Dinarid and Alpinid elements)
7. Iceland (significant dark haired minority, more so than Norway, around 13 % in many works)
8. England (a lot of variation, between social classes and regions, the eastern half of the country is blonder)
9. Germany (NW Germany should be quite blonde, but the rest of the country not as much)

You should add Estonia to the poll. Estonian blondism is more East-Baltid than Nordid, in origin (Lundman, 1943, 1977).

The shade of blonde differ between NW and NE Europe. Read my post in the Stefan Effenberg thread:

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=440092

There is much more golden blondism in NW Europe. The explanation lie in how an individual become ginger/red haired. See the text below, which I posted 07-12-2005, at Skadi.

The red hair series is different from the brown, which ranges from darkest brown to lightest blonde. When hair reflects less than 47 % as much light as 546 mu wave-lengths as it does at 700 mu wave-lenght, the eye distinguishes the colour as reddish or red. The resulting impression is brown when the reflectance is greater than 47 %. The curves of black, brown and blonds are almost straight lines. However, the reds show an upward curvature in the region of the green. Thus, the difference between brown and red is due to that the latter show much less reflectance in the green (and blue) bands, and not a disparity in the red bands of the spectrum.

There are really three series: the pure melanotic series ranging from black through the flat browns and light ash browns to almost colourless ash blonde; a red series ranging from intense red to very light red and red-golden; a mixed series in which melanotic pigment is found with the red pigment. This last series may range from black (the red pigment being perfectly masked) through darker to lighter red-browns. Studies show that when red hair is bleached with peroxide a lighter red of higher purity (the degree of similarity between the colour of the sample and the colour of pure spectrum light with a wave-length equal to the dominant wave-length of the sample) and brightness are produced. The dominant wavelength is not changed though, and the spectrophotometric curve shows the same bend upward in the red. It is still red.

It seems very probable that red-haired individuals often result from the crossings of a black-haired parent in whom there is a good deal recessive red-gold pigment, with a blond mate in whose hair is little pigment of any kind, and some of that little red-gold pigment. Pure red heads are thus a result of segregation of the red-gold pigment. The freckles represent the tanning capabilities of the brunet stock, irregularly distributed in the epithelial cells. The milky white skin is the inheritance of the blond stock. The reddish tinge of the hair is oftener seen in the beard, which I have myself observed. The axillary and pubic hair are other areas where it is more common than on the head. (information on hair series is mostly taken from E.A Hooton)

SW Finns and western Estonians, are very blonde. They are predominantly East-Nordid (Lundman's Aistin) and somewhat East-Baltid (Tavastid type).

Finnic groups are probably the most blonde people of Europe. Their blondism is often devoid of phaeomelanin.



and what about lithuania or latvia..for me those countries arent darker than sweden...also putting england and germany before than poland.. mmmmm what about czech republic and western russia ......

Mr_Doctor
Wednesday, February 21st, 2007, 03:50 PM
my personal estimations in percentages


1) finland/estonia around 55% - 60%
2) latvia 52% - 53 %
3)sweden around 50%
4)lithuania around 47 % - 48%
5)norway/denmark - around 45%
6)netherlands/poland/iceland/belarus/western russia - around 40 % - 42 %
7)czech republic 35%
8)slovakia 32% - 33%
9)germany 30% -32%
10) austria 25%

:thumbup

fareast
Friday, March 9th, 2007, 09:52 AM
the estimation above looks reasonable in no way,germans are more brunet than polish or slovakian?

goldgrube
Friday, March 9th, 2007, 11:03 AM
More brunet than polish, i think

http://www.snpa.nordish.net/bilder/troe-map8a.jpghttp://www.snpa.nordish.net/bilder/troe-map8b.jpg

Drakkar
Friday, March 9th, 2007, 11:05 AM
I must say, posting pictures of young children is not very helpful in determining the blondness of a given country. The vast majority of Northern European children are blondish. This does not indicate whether they will remain blonde into adolescence and adulthood.This is true, the vast majority of children's hair in Sweden are near white. Alas I had the same hair but it darkened to medium brown. When I was a baby in Germany my mother always said the people loved to pick me up etc. because that was a period of scaringly low ethnic birth rates.:~(

Also, may I add that I strongly believe that this poll did not have immigrant features in mind. IMHO they DO NOT COUNT, especially when discussing Germanic issues unless it is the issue of them leaving.

goldgrube
Friday, March 9th, 2007, 11:10 AM
Second & third generations will never leave for sure

Pertinax
Friday, March 9th, 2007, 05:09 PM
Why Do Europeans Have So Many Hair and Eye Colors?

Most humans have only one hair color and one eye color. Europeans are a big exception: their hair is black but also brown, flaxen, golden, or red; their eyes are brown but also blue, gray, hazel, or green. This diversity reaches a maximum in an area centered on the East Baltic and covering northern and eastern Europe. If we move outward, to the south and east, we see a rapid return to the human norm: hair becomes uniformly black and eyes uniformly brown.

Source (http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Frost_06.html)

Ruthenicus
Friday, March 9th, 2007, 09:10 PM
my personal estimations in percentages

6)netherlands/poland/iceland/belarus/western russia - around 40 % - 42 %


One should know that in nowadays' Russia the Great Russians don't differ in subraces depending on the region. The named percentage is OK for all Great Russians. For example, for Moscow, where people from all ethnic Russian lands live.
My one estimation considering ethnic Russians (including more dark Ukrainians, who live in Russia) -
40% - blond/dark blond
50% - light brown/brown
7% - dark brown/black
3% - redheads:thumbup

Purely black hair colour is extremely rare.
Considering eyes' pigmentation, there's such a rule - if 4 Russians gather, 3 of them are blue or grey eyed (light pigmentation), the 4th is green, hazel, reddish or brown eyed.
Black eyes (as well as dark brown) are extremely out of norm - about, say, 2% (black) or even less.

In Pskov about 75% of women are blond/dark blond (not dyed, surely)))))

Nekron
Friday, March 9th, 2007, 09:20 PM
I AM blond and have blue eyes
but I think most of these people come from Norway

Mercator
Saturday, March 10th, 2007, 05:22 AM
I AM blond and have blue eyes
but I think most of these people come from Norway

What people?http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i268/Morton_XXI/penssssar.gif

Pertinax
Saturday, March 10th, 2007, 06:46 AM
In Pskov about 75% of women are blond/dark blond (not dyed, surely)))))

Scientists conducted their research in Novgorod Veliki and the Volot settlement, on the border between the Novgorod and Pskov oblasts. They took blood samples from 80 volunteers from each populated location, Russians from the mother's side in a minimum of two generations. From the collected blood samples they isolated mitochondrial DNA and looked for genes in this DNA, which is spread among the populations of various regions of Eurasia. It transpires that individual groups of genes found in the residents of Novgorod, are a characteristic feature not of Russians, but for the Northern Finno-Ugorsk people of Eastern Europe - the Finns, Udmurts, Maris, and Komi-Zyryan.
http://www.istc.ru/istc/sc.nsf/news/science-news-finns-novgorod-soil.htm

It is noteworthy that among the Russian populations studied, the Pskov population shows the highest frequency (35%) of haplogroup N3, which is characteristic of all Uralic- and Baltic-speaking populations north and east of the Baltic Sea (Rosser et al. 2000; Zerjal et al. 2001).

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2005/06/y-chromosomes-and-mtdna-of-russians.html

ArcticRoots
Saturday, March 10th, 2007, 08:28 AM
Blondism comes from the baltic area, spread westwards and northwards, always start from phi, the further away from balticum you get, the darker the people get, or the baltic nordic area... so if someone says it's an indo european trait can go suck a thumb, never ever try to fool me an indo european kurd from the albanian mountains of gypsyville brought blondism to Europe!

Nekron
Saturday, March 10th, 2007, 08:33 AM
What people?

people that have blond hair and blue eyes ;)

fareast
Saturday, March 10th, 2007, 09:25 AM
modern kurds can't s stand for pure indo-europeans 4000 years ago.in some ancinet chinese writings,even many sogds had blond hairs and blue eyes.according to studies made by us and norway cholars,blondism gene came from 11000 years ago in skandinavia,when and where there only exist cromagnids.in my opinion,indo-europeans were obviously descent of blond cromagnids.they maybe left europa between 8000-10000 years ago when cromagnoids skeletal remains reduced greatly,and in bronze times they returned europa.

Lissu
Saturday, March 10th, 2007, 11:46 AM
according to studies made by us and norway cholars,blondism gene came from 11000 years ago in skandinavia,when and where there only exist cromagnids.Well, back then Scandinavia was covered by thick layer of ice so I really doubt this study. Source? Secondly I doubt blondism is that young trait.

Mr_Doctor
Saturday, March 10th, 2007, 05:42 PM
One should know that in nowadays' Russia the Great Russians don't differ in subraces depending on the region. The named percentage is OK for all Great Russians. For example, for Moscow, where people from all ethnic Russian lands live.
My one estimation considering ethnic Russians (including more dark Ukrainians, who live in Russia) -
40% - blond/dark blond
50% - light brown/brown
7% - dark brown/black
3% - redheads:thumbup

Purely black hair colour is extremely rare.
Considering eyes' pigmentation, there's such a rule - if 4 Russians gather, 3 of them are blue or grey eyed (light pigmentation), the 4th is green, hazel, reddish or brown eyed.
Black eyes (as well as dark brown) are extremely out of norm - about, say, 2% (black) or even less.

In Pskov about 75% of women are blond/dark blond (not dyed, surely)))))



im not surprised that a slavic country is the one that give more nordic traits (in number of individuals ) to the whole world

ArcticRoots
Saturday, March 10th, 2007, 06:25 PM
modern kurds can't s stand for pure indo-europeans 4000 years ago.in some ancinet chinese writings,even many sogds had blond hairs and blue eyes.according to studies made by us and norway cholars,blondism gene came from 11000 years ago in skandinavia,when and where there only exist cromagnids.in my opinion,indo-europeans were obviously descent of blond cromagnids.they maybe left europa between 8000-10000 years ago when cromagnoids skeletal remains reduced greatly,and in bronze times they returned europa.

11000 years ago = Ice age, only baltic was ice free back then, also Germany... But we have evidence that the Nordic was populated 125,000 years ago, Varggrottan in Österbotten Finland, (Wolfs cave - Northwestern Finland) they have found evidence of early neanderthals living there, so the Nordic has been populated before the Ice age, no doubt about that! But they were not homo sapiens!

Ruthenicus
Saturday, March 10th, 2007, 07:40 PM
Scientists conducted their research in Novgorod Veliki and the Volot settlement, on the border between the Novgorod and Pskov oblasts. They took blood samples from 80 volunteers from each populated location, Russians from the mother's side in a minimum of two generations. From the collected blood samples they isolated mitochondrial DNA and looked for genes in this DNA, which is spread among the populations of various regions of Eurasia. It transpires that individual groups of genes found in the residents of Novgorod, are a characteristic feature not of Russians, but for the Northern Finno-Ugorsk people of Eastern Europe - the Finns, Udmurts, Maris, and Komi-Zyryan.
http://www.istc.ru/istc/sc.nsf/news/science-news-finns-novgorod-soil.htm

It is noteworthy that among the Russian populations studied, the Pskov population shows the highest frequency (35%) of haplogroup N3, which is characteristic of all Uralic- and Baltic-speaking populations north and east of the Baltic Sea (Rosser et al. 2000; Zerjal et al. 2001).

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2005/06/y-chromosomes-and-mtdna-of-russians.html

All these researches prove only that blondinism is nowadays characteristic for the named area and populations and not that it originates from Fennic or Indoeuropean tribes or whoelse, I don't care.

All these opinions on when did the Nordid and Nordocromagnid races appear or who was originally more blond are rather funny, 'cause racism without Aryan mythology and paganism doesn't exist for me and our myths are the truth in the highest sence of this word. And our myths say - we, Nordish people, the latest of whom were Indoeuropeans (the previous, apparently, were Fenno-Ugrians) started from Hyperborea, prehistoric paradise about 12 000 years ago. Vedanta, Elder Edda, Greek myths, Kalevala, Avesta are not to be compared with any "newest" and "most progressive" results of modern science.
Surely, originally, Indo-Europeans were all blond or red haired Nordids and, maybe, Nordocromagnids, no doubt.
All dark pigmentation is ALWAYS a product of interbreeding, according to what we can read in legends, who say that ancient Aryans were all blond or red haired with blue, grey or green eyes.
Not Nordids are "depigmented Mediterranids" that's lol, but, on the opposite, Meds are the product of interbreeding between Nords and some coloured races.

Mr_Doctor
Saturday, March 10th, 2007, 08:23 PM
the estimation above looks reasonable in no way,germans are more brunet than polish or slovakian?

yes both countries are in average blonder than germany

mainly poland, but slovakia also could be a bith slight

fareast
Sunday, March 11th, 2007, 05:13 AM
Not Nordids are "depigmented Mediterranids" that's lol, but, on the opposite, Meds are the product of interbreeding between Nords and some coloured races.[/quote]

fareast
Sunday, March 11th, 2007, 05:17 AM
Not Nordids are "depigmented Mediterranids" that's lol, but, on the opposite, Meds are the product of interbreeding between Nords and some coloured races.[/quote]

I agree with it.many brunet people has inhabitanted in southern europe since neolithic times.

Mr_Doctor
Sunday, March 11th, 2007, 07:50 PM
seem a BIG irony dont have estonia ..and also dont have the another baltic countries in the poll.........

zveers
Sunday, March 11th, 2007, 09:04 PM
seem a BIG irony dont have estonia ..and also dont have the another baltic countries in the poll.........

Estonia is blondest amongst the baltic countries, but it also has less nordics then latvia & lithuania and estonians are more robust and have wider faces then Latvians & Lithuanians.( the east-baltic subrace is most common in Estonia, amongst the baltic countries)

Sigurd
Tuesday, March 13th, 2007, 04:51 AM
Out of the options given Finland. Of those not listed, Estonia. ;)

Slætartind
Monday, October 20th, 2008, 06:02 PM
Finland or Sweden (if only ethnical sweds are counted)... I´m not sure! it´s probably not norway.

Faroe Islands should be included in that list... there are probably more blonds in Faroe Islands than in England, Germany netherlands and possibily Iceland and Denmark too.

And as someone said too, the baltic states should without a doubt be in the list too.

But yeah i´ll vote for Sweden.

adela_dawn
Monday, October 20th, 2008, 11:26 PM
why isnt scotland in there! :P
tbh i dont think anyone is the 'most blonde'- the haircolour (completly natural) is such a rarity, most hairdressers will admit to never have seen one.lol

Slætartind
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2008, 08:32 PM
It´s funny with Blondness..Finland is not Germanic and they don´t concider themselfs germanic if you ask them.. But they are more blonds than Germany. I´ve been in Finland and germany and the finns are much blonder.
Is there any connection between being germanic and having blond hair??

I have never seen a map of USA even if i´ve heard that there are lots of blonds in some parts of USA, Australia would also be interesting to see.

I am not sure if that map is accurate, but according to that map then it´s central parts of Scandinavia (Norway,Sweden and Finland) and to a lesser degree in Faroes, Iceland, parts of UK, the baltic countries and Denmark.

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/blond_hair_map1.jpg

Oswiu
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2008, 09:49 PM
I´ve been in Finland and germany and the finns are much blonder.
Is there any connection between being germanic and having blond hair??


Haven't you just answered your own question? Blondeness is most seen in the Northern Germanics, Western Finnics, and Balts, with a fair bit of it seeping into the neighbouring populations. It is thus probably an older thing than the origin of the Germanic languages and distinct Germanic peoples as such, and more a common heritage to all around the Baltic Sea.

We can theorise about the modern Baltic Sea Finnics and Baltic speakers as having both resulting from a fusion of IE and proto-Finnic peoples, in which one language won out in one area, and the other in the other. Or we can suppose that the Finnics who took part in this fusion were already blonde to a significant extent. We can also imagine a pre-Germanic Scandinavia with blonde inhabitants, or suppose that central northern Europe formed the initial reservoir of this type and was later changed by admixture.

A lot depends on dating of the phenomenon of blondness, and I'd like to hear of anything anyone might have heard or can suggest on that score.

Papa Koos
Thursday, October 23rd, 2008, 03:32 AM
Out of the options given Finland. Of those not listed, Estonia. ;)

I agree.:thumbup Estonians are astonishingly blond and in great numbers.

Sigurd
Thursday, October 23rd, 2008, 08:48 AM
Slætartind - there is no formal connection between Germanics and Blondism. Blondism in Europids is a phenomenon that has been witnessed across the spectrum, though most common in specimens of the different varieties of Nordid, Dalofaelid, Baltid and Borreby (though remarkably less so in the last of the four mentioned).

As such it is a trait, which tends to be more closely connected with subrace than with ethnic or meta-ethnic identity, but poses no restrictions on these identifications: Brunette persons classifying as fully Nordid have been observed, and not rarely at that (all it needs would f. ex. be the darkest hair pigment arising from two dark-blonde parents).

Many Russians are blonde haired, blue eyed East-Nordids, yet chances are that they are still less kin to you than a dark-haired, dark-eyed Dinarid of Germanic extraction. Subrace does not equal ethnicity - it may well do so to a large extent in the relatively homogeneous islands in the Atlantic, but it certainly is not true for the continent, nor the British Isles, for that matter. ;)



I am not sure if that map is accurate, but according to that map then it´s central parts of Scandinavia (Norway,Sweden and Finland) and to a lesser degree in Faroes, Iceland, parts of UK, the baltic countries and Denmark.

The blondness of Sweden tends to be over-rated by examination of these maps. Whilst geographically speaking, virtually half of Sweden should be overwhelmingly blonde - one must take into account population density: Whilst the 80+% area for Finland are those parts of Finland that are the most densely populated, comparedly few people live in the north of Sweden: Note that the zone of extreme blondism only commences north of Stockholms Län ... with arguably all major cities being south of that line.

Another problem that I find with this map is - it fails to state explictly what is defined as "light hair". By my examination of the map, this would include any colour that us continentals would classify as blonde, including that most common hair colour in the British Isles, with the Briton knows as "sandy brown" instead, but which would be counted as "dark blonde" on the continent.

This is probably how the middle of Norway also got onto the map: Norwegians are remarkable non-blonde, I actually yet have to see a Norwegian Trønder specimen who was blonde - all the ones that come to my mind who were blonde were of fundamentally Borreby racial type (a type renowned on the continent as arguable the least blonde of the northern CM/UP types!). Blonde Trønders instead appear to be more of a phenomenon of Iceland, and to some extent the extreme north of Scotland. ;)

Slætartind
Thursday, October 23rd, 2008, 08:51 AM
Haven't you just answered your own question?

Well not excacly. Well that was at least not my intention.

My intention was to see if anyone more experienced in this forum knew something more anbout the subject witch we debate.

Vingolf
Thursday, October 23rd, 2008, 10:56 AM
Blondeness is most seen in the Northern Germanics, Western Finnics, and Balts, with a fair bit of it seeping into the neighbouring populations. It is thus probably an older thing than the origin of the Germanic languages and distinct Germanic peoples as such, and more a common heritage to all around the Baltic Sea.
The most Germanicized Finno-Baltic population (in south-western Finland) also tends to be the *blondest*. Phenotypes, however, should not be confused with genotypes. Different environments can influence the development of inherited traits (as size, for example, is affected by available food supply) and alter expression by similar genotypes. Furthermore, all inherited possibilities in the genotype are not expressed in the phenotype, because some are the result of latent, recessive, or inhibited genes.

The actual appearance and behaviour of the individual, i.e., the phenotype, is determined by the dominance relationships of the alleles that make up the genotype, along with environmental influences.


Norwegians are remarkable non-blonde
The central and southern Norwegian population - with the exception of some of the western coastal populations - share the same basic racial characteristics as southern Swedes, Jutlandic Danes, and northern Germans, i.e. the North-Germanic core population.

Oswiu
Thursday, October 23rd, 2008, 02:20 PM
The most Germanicized Finno-Baltic population (in south-western Finland) also tends to be the *blondest*. Phenotypes, however, should not be confused with genotypes. Different environments can influence the development of inherited traits (as size, for example, is affected by available food supply) and alter expression by similar genotypes. Furthermore, all inherited possibilities in the genotype are not expressed in the phenotype, because some are the result of latent, recessive, or inhibited genes.

The actual appearance and behaviour of the individual, i.e., the phenotype, is determined by the dominance relationships of the alleles that make up the genotype, along with environmental influences.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, Golfy, beyond describing the nature of how phenotypes are formed. I would probably expect you, from our discussions in the past, to be one for minimising fairer traits in neighbour populations to the Ur-Germanics, and according their present existence among Finnics and Slavs to admixture from the former. Is this what you have in mind when giving a model for how these initially Germanic traits have spread among meta-ethnic entities that earlier didn't have them?

I would rather say that what you put above only spreads the zone of blondism in its genetic rather than phenotypic sense over a far wider area, taking in much of Eurasia and even north Africa, as the alleles are out there but 'smothered'. Have I misunderstood you? WOuldn't be the first time althjaz Ansuweihaz had ni waila frothun thee! ;)

Vingolf
Thursday, October 23rd, 2008, 04:06 PM
I would probably expect you, from our discussions in the past, to be one for minimising fairer traits in neighbour populations to the Ur-Germanics, and according their present existence among Finnics and Slavs to admixture from the former. Is this what you have in mind when giving a model for how these initially Germanic traits have spread among meta-ethnic entities that earlier didn't have them?
Waila, hwaiwa ni nauh habaith galaubein? ;)
I am only saying that common phenotypes are not equivalent to common genotypes, even though they often seem to correlate... The predominantly Finno-Ugrian parts of Northern Scandinavia and Finland are to my knowledge far less blond than south-western, Germanicized Finland/north-western Estonia.

Oswiu
Thursday, October 23rd, 2008, 04:25 PM
Waila, hwaiwa ni nauh habaith galaubein? ;)
I've got to give up pretending to any knowledge of that althjo tuggo... :P
What did you say there? "Well, why haven't you left it yet?" No? :confused

I am only saying that common phenotypes are not equivalent to common genotypes, even though they often seem to correlate... The predominantly Finno-Ugrian parts of Northern Scandinavia and Finland are to my knowledge far less blond than south-western, Germanicized Finland/north-western Estonia.

Karelia, however, is strikingly fair. And it only exists because it was a Russian ruled area that held back the Swedes. Or would you suppose a more ancient GErmanic influence even here.

You don't see much gradation in Estonia, either. Estonian pockets were found all the way to Leningrad and Novgorod only a century or so ago, and I doubt they'd be much darker either, considering the local people nowadays in those parts.

The Veps are fair too. And the 'Zavolotskie Chud' are now supposed from toponymic and archaeological evidence to have been of the Veps, and these people are thought to have had a markedly 'westernising' effect on the ethnogenesis of the Komi, especially in racial terms. THe Komi themselves are far lighter than most people here in Manchester.

Even the Mordva, all the way down there near the Steppe are fairly light brunettes. I have several acquaintances among them.

It seems to me that it is the most hideous mistake to suppose Samoyedic types as the originators of Finnic languages. Relict fairness among Kets, Sayan Samoyeds and Altai Turkics of Uralic stock support the opposite.

Vingolf
Thursday, October 23rd, 2008, 07:45 PM
What did you say there? "Well, why haven't you left it yet?" No?
Aftra qithan: "How is it you still don't believe?" ;)


Karelia, however, is strikingly fair. [...] THe Komi themselves are far lighter than most people here in Manchester.
Do we know that? Any research done?


You don't see much gradation in Estonia, either. Estonian pockets were found all the way to Leningrad and Novgorod only a century or so ago, and I doubt they'd be much darker either, considering the local people nowadays in those parts.
Based on mostly pre-war research (phenotypes went out of fashion LTA), I think it is safe to say that blondness tends to decrease eastwards and southwards. The core area of blondness is southern Scandinavia, northern Germany/Jutlandic Denmark.

Anyway, nobody I know of claims that since the average Italian, Spaniard or Pakistani has a lot of pigment in his skin and tans easily, they have common ancestry...

Slætartind
Friday, October 24th, 2008, 04:15 PM
I think it is safe to say that blondness tends to decrease eastwards and southwards. The core area of blondness is southern Scandinavia, northern Germany/Jutlandic Denmark.

Anyway, nobody I know of claims that since the average Italian, Spaniard or Pakistani has a lot of pigment in his skin and tans easily, they have common ancestry...

The southern danes and the northern germans are not the most blond people.
Finland and Sweden has far more blonds. I posted a map look at it. I will find the refrences if you´d like.

Denmark and Northen germany is fairly ligh haired.. But the center of blondness is in central parts of Sweden and Finland, and to a lesser extent Norway.

And the further away you come from that area the darker hair people generaly have. In the Far northern scandinavia the Smai people live they are a more dark haired than central scandinavian.
Northern Germany/ southern Denmark is probably the area with most germanic population. But thats another subject.

The hallstatt type originated from Sweden, witch is the very closest you can come to the Aryan race (sorry for being political incorrect).
Thats where the blondest people live.

Denmark and Germany is germanic but they are dominated by other types who cerrainly are Darker than Hallstats.

Oswiu
Friday, October 24th, 2008, 07:01 PM
The hallstatt type originated from Sweden,

I suggest you investigate the term 'Hallstat'... ;)

Slætartind
Monday, January 12th, 2009, 03:01 PM
I suggest you investigate the term 'Hallstat'... ;)

Hallstat sounds german yes. Is it german?
Some race analysis has been made that are available online then Hallstat is estimated to be the most common type in Sweden and eastern Norway.
Again i don´t have a clue if it´s directly proportional to the percentages of blonds.
http://www.racialcompact.com/nordishrace.html

Rozenstorm
Monday, January 12th, 2009, 03:07 PM
Finland isn't Germanic is it? Well, not that that means they don't have blondes, but, still...

Sigurd
Tuesday, January 13th, 2009, 01:27 AM
Hallstat sounds german yes. Is it german?


Close enough, I'll let it count. (because I feel that Austria is also German) For more information on this lovely little village on a lakeside in Upper Austria visit this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallstatt). ;)

FullForce
Tuesday, January 13th, 2009, 01:58 AM
Finland has the most blonds.

ejarln
Friday, October 30th, 2009, 02:10 PM
Finnish blonds seem overrated. I've been there in last summer,it seem the blonds are minority.

http://s775.photobucket.com/albums/yy32/krueng1609/fins2.jpg

http://s775.photobucket.com/albums/yy32/krueng1609/finns1.jpg

Pallantides
Saturday, January 2nd, 2010, 12:03 AM
Finland, Estonia and Sweden

Ediruc
Saturday, January 2nd, 2010, 02:17 AM
I thought Lithuania was the blondest country...

Pallantides
Saturday, January 2nd, 2010, 02:20 AM
Maybe, I only know Norway has the least light blondes of all the Nordic countries, most have dark blonde and shades of brown hair.

Horagalles
Sunday, March 7th, 2010, 08:27 PM
Finnish blonds seem overrated. I've been there in last summer,it seem the blonds are minority.

http://s775.photobucket.com/albums/yy32/krueng1609/fins2.jpg

http://s775.photobucket.com/albums/yy32/krueng1609/finns1.jpg
That certainly depends on what you consider blond. Some of the people seemed to have the hair dyed dark. But most of them seem to have a blonde strain, certainly blond as little child as I was. Today I would consider my hair to be ash brown, some would say dark blond. So the hair did darken over time.

LaNae
Sunday, March 7th, 2010, 08:33 PM
England hardly deserves a mention. I am a natural 'proper' blonde (not blondey brown or anything!) and I am struggling to think of a single person I know who shares my hair colour by nature.

Hamar Fox
Tuesday, March 9th, 2010, 10:33 AM
England hardly deserves a mention. I am a natural 'proper' blonde (not blondey brown or anything!) and I am struggling to think of a single person I know who shares my hair colour by nature.

It depends what part of the country you live in. Southerners aren't blonde, but Yorkshire folk and Geordies tend to be quite fair indeed. People in some towns I've visited in Yorkshire (Castleford, for one) often have strikingly blonde hair (on working class males, definitely not dyed), and on average the hair colour is sandy.

I'd say as a people the English aren't very blonde, but on a regional level they can be.

LaNae
Tuesday, March 9th, 2010, 06:58 PM
It depends what part of the country you live in. Southerners aren't blonde, but Yorkshire folk and Geordies tend to be quite fair indeed. People in some towns I've visited in Yorkshire (Castleford, for one) often have strikingly blonde hair (on working class males, definitely not dyed), and on average the hair colour is sandy.

I'd say as a people the English aren't very blonde, but on a regional level they can be.

Makes sense- I'm a Southerner. The majority here seem to be brown-haired.

Varg Vikernes
Wednesday, March 10th, 2010, 01:35 PM
Why don't you just look it up in a genealogical encyclopedia? The blondest parts of Europe are Scandinavia, the Northern extremes of Germany, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estland, coastal Finland and large parts of North-Western Russia.

Then comes the Netherlands, Iceland, England, the rest of Germany, the former Czechoslovakia, Belarus, Ukraine and almost all of European Russia.

Blonde hair and blue eyes aren't "Germanic" traits alone you know. These are pan-European traits. Even most of the ancient Greeks were blonde and had blue eyes. Once upon a time all the Europeans where blonde and had blue eyes.

Sigurd
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 01:11 AM
Even most of the ancient Greeks were blonde and had blue eyes. Once upon a time all the Europeans where blonde and had blue eyes.

I feel we must be careful when making these types of generalisations. What may still be dark blonde to one population might be medium brown to another population.

For instance, on another forum there was an Admin - a Finland Swede (i.e. still a Germanic) - who routinely described himself as "medium brown". When I actually saw pictures of that man it soon turned out he had precisely the same shade of hair colour as my younger brother who is judged "dark blonde" by most of his peers.

The above example IMO shows quite well that even at either extremes of the Germanic spectrum, appearances are perceived differently, by the wider range a tribe is used to. How much more even must this have been the case for the typically swarthy ancient Romans when they called our ancestors "all blonde", any five minutes in a pred. swarthy country as a brown-haired person would suffice.

Collective partial depigmentation and a high degree of blondism, i.e. the genetic ability to have children with blonde/light-brown hair and/or blue/grey/green eyes, at least passed on recessively as a "bearer organism", we can probably all agree on for all ancient Germanics; and agree on to be partially spread amongst other European groups. Complete blondism for all European populations would be hard to establish though, this does not tie up with the extent of later migrations that may have adversely affected that very status quo.

Deifr
Saturday, March 13th, 2010, 12:05 AM
I don't think anywhere was ever completely blonde.

Varg Vikernes
Saturday, March 13th, 2010, 12:39 AM
Take a look at this Deifr:

«Tacitus mentions that they (i. e. the tribes living in Antiquity in what is today known as Germany) have common characteristics of blue eyes, blond or reddish hair.»

Not that "reddish" does not mean "red". "Red" hair is a mutation of brown hair. "Reddish" hair is blonde with a red hue.

The pure European man is a blonde... and all the Europeans once were blonde. The other colours come from race mixing with alien races. :(

Horagalles
Saturday, March 13th, 2010, 12:24 PM
...Not that "reddish" does not mean "red". "Red" hair is a mutation of brown hair. "Reddish" hair is blonde with a red hue.

The pure European man is a blonde... and all the Europeans once were blonde. The other colours come from race mixing with alien races. :(... While blondism is certainly a mark of Europeans, I'd object to the suggestion that non-blond components in European nations do come from "Alien" races (like asians, mid-Easterners etc. ) As a matter of fact I consider the darker non-blond components usually to be relics of the pre-Aryan population.

GermaniaGirl
Saturday, March 27th, 2010, 11:43 AM
It´s funny with Blondness..Finland is not Germanic and they don´t concider themselfs germanic if you ask them.. But they are more blonds than Germany. I´ve been in Finland and germany and the finns are much blonder.
Is there any connection between being germanic and having blond hair??

I have never seen a map of USA even if i´ve heard that there are lots of blonds in some parts of USA, Australia would also be interesting to see.

I am not sure if that map is accurate, but according to that map then it´s central parts of Scandinavia (Norway,Sweden and Finland) and to a lesser degree in Faroes, Iceland, parts of UK, the baltic countries and Denmark.

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/blond_hair_map1.jpg


I'm no expert, but I seriously take issue with this map, especially considering the color of Germany. I mean no distinction made between North and South, but in Poland there is? I think this French anthropologist who created this map is stuck on the Viking invasions and their spread of Blondism. I mean, nevermind that Vikings were not the only blonds, or let alone blond Germanic peoples.
Secondly, is this map indicating whether it is based on a certain point in time? For instance, is this simply an impression captured in 2009? Germany is a huge, diverse country with many Turks inhabiting it, for example. Is the author of this map taking into account how "German" a certain segment of the population is in Germany? Sweden has no more than 11-13 million people (I beleive?) while Germany has around 82 million? So I say a big giant "Fail" for this map. Do we know if this "study" was based on observation with raw genetic data, or did he just trust his eyes? Maybe I'm too slow to see how this map is not way, way subjective and therefore, basically "creative".

I'm not the only Germanic person who thinks this map is bunk. It seriously needs to be trashed and not used as a "scientific" illustration, because we don't even know if there is a sound, reliable method to this author's madness.

If you go on eupedia.com, they've even taken the liberty of "improving" this map by painting in Germany and Poland as much blonder than the map mentioned above and liberally posted everywhere on the web.

The link to the Eupedia blond map is: http://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_of_europe.shtml#hair_colour

Hermin
Sunday, January 9th, 2011, 11:07 AM
Highest levels of blond hair in the World, districts with more than 72,5% blond (conscripts) :

Norway:
West Agder
Aust Agder (probably the highest level of blond hair in the World)
Telemark

Sweden:
Gotlands län
Kalmar län
Kronobergs län
Blekinge län
Former Kristianstads län

Finland:
Satakunta
Varsinais Soumi
Finnish-speaking Nylanders

Estonia:
Harjumaa
Järvamaa
Virumaa
Petserimaa

Horagalles
Saturday, April 9th, 2011, 05:32 PM
I'd expect the highest concentration in Scandinavia as well. What about Iceland?
As for the map, their should be some parts in the Netherlands, Germany, even Poland that could stick out a bit more.

Linden
Saturday, April 9th, 2011, 05:54 PM
I definately remember reading that Finland had the largest number of blonds (as a percentage). I would say about 25% of the English population is blond.

Ormsson
Wednesday, August 17th, 2011, 01:38 AM
The research conducted in 1955 had shown that 56,9% of Poles have light hair (16-12 scale of Fischer–Saller), and about 72,4% have light eyes (A-P scale of Fischer–Saller).

Gott Mit Uns
Wednesday, August 17th, 2011, 01:05 PM
Well,we have much discussion about europe,let us talk about the NewWorld(like northamerica),I've heard that about 25% white americans are blond,do any of you guys think it is a little higher?Or maybe this"blond"also include "light brown"?

JosephSmith
Wednesday, August 17th, 2011, 01:37 PM
The blondest parts of the UK is East Anglia and Lincolnshire with the least blond being the West Midlands and the welsh border and Northumberland and Cumbria.

Mr_Doctor
Monday, December 5th, 2011, 05:12 AM
A more accurate pigmentation map would be this one:

http://a.yfrog.com/img808/4242/blondehair.png

Still some innacuracies..

Icelanders are slighty less blond than dutch
Flemish people are definitely blonder than Poles (even northern poles)
Brits as a whole arent blonder than Northern french.

Horagalles
Monday, December 5th, 2011, 07:45 AM
Still some innacuracies..

Icelanders are slighty less blond than dutch
Flemish people are definitely blonder than Poles (even northern poles)
Brits as a whole arent blonder than Northern french. I also woner how "blond" the Germans are in comparison with the rest. 30-40% seems to be hight to me, but the people darken as there age and then there is of course mixture ("dark blonde") that plays a role.

Mr_Doctor
Monday, December 5th, 2011, 01:51 PM
I also woner how "blond" the Germans are in comparison with the rest. 30-40% seems to be hight to me, but the people darken as there age and then there is of course mixture ("dark blonde") that plays a role.

30-40 seems high because people in industrial regions, which are the most visited in germany are generally darker haired. Most rural areas from the north are predominantly blond/fair, specially in the north.

Germany (and also holland) have been very underrated in pigmentation/blondism maps (specially the older ones), compared to countries like UK/Ireland, Poland (and Iceland is lesser degree) who are usually overrated.

30-40% seems fine. Southern germany and Austria would be in the 30% blondism mark, central germany 30-40, and the North above 40%. Germans(average of the country) arent Darker than any other european nation as a whole except scandinavians/finns and the Dutch. The baltic blondims always seemed to me a very overrated thing, They have many people with ratt colored hair or lightbrown/dishwaterish color but natural light/golden blondes above the age of 20 are in fact much more uncommon than in countries like Denmark,etc.

Other "big" countries in europe are less blonde, for example spain and Italy around 7/8% blond (nearly all of them in the darkest range of blond), France around 15%, Britain in the 20-25% mark, Poland in the 25-30%, Russia in the 30%. As I said only small populated countries from upper rhine are generally blonder, but If we take Northern germany as a whole, and specially provinces in the North-West, then germany could compete fairly with some of the blondest areas.

Dead Eye
Monday, December 5th, 2011, 02:26 PM
All i know is that Finland is No.1 for the amount of blondes any country has on average.
Apparently they reckon that the last blonde person to be born will come from Finland.

Mr_Doctor
Monday, December 5th, 2011, 02:45 PM
All i know is that Finland is No.1 for the amount of blondes any country has on average.
Apparently they reckon that the last blonde person to be born will come from Finland.

How's that? In nearly every morph I've seen The Swedes came out as lighter compared to finns.

Best country variation site I've seen so far..

http://anthroeurope.blogspot.com/

michalis
Tuesday, February 14th, 2012, 01:44 PM
I have travelled across Europe and the Blondest region in Continental Europe is North Holland (Friesland and Groningen). Another area of great Blondism is North Germany (Kiel and East Friesland).:)

Germaniathane
Thursday, February 2nd, 2017, 01:41 AM
I definately remember reading that Finland had the largest number of blonds (as a percentage). I would say about 25% of the English population is blond.

No, 25% of the United Kingdom is blonde-haired. England has a higher figure than that.

Wulfaz
Thursday, February 2nd, 2017, 12:41 PM
It is interesting that many people worship the Blondism however the Finnics and the Slavs have far blonder than the Germanics or us, the Germans. Especielly the average German hair is the brown and lesser common the dark golden blond, the black, the red and at least the light blond. The blue eyes are not general too, the most common the mid-blue, lesser common the light-brown, the sky-blue, the dark-brown and the green.

Germaniathane
Thursday, February 2nd, 2017, 09:44 PM
Many exaggerations have been made!! Blond and light hair types are found in every single European population, increasing in frequency from north to south. There are plenty of Southern Europeans who are blond-haired, blue or green-eyed, fair, it is not extraordinary there to be so, just that the frequency is lower than in Northern/Central/Eastern European countries.
Finland is the blondest country in the world, while Norway is the blondest Germanic country and not Sweden as most people think!
In terms of blond+light hair(red+dark blond+various lighter brown tones) frequencies in Europe.
1. Finland = 89-91%
2. Norway = 84%
3. Sweden & Denmark = 80-83%
4. Iceland, Faroe Islands & Estonia = 77-79.5%
5. Latvia & Lithuania = 72.5-76.9%
6. Byelorussia, England, the Netherlands = 70-72%
7. Scotland & Ireland = 62.5-67%
8. Wales, Germany, Poland = 58-60%
9. Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Austria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and the Ukraine, Russia = 53-57%
10. France, Hungary, Slovenia, Romania (including Moldova) = 43-50%
11. Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia = 40%
12. Portugal, Spain, Italy, Albania, Greece, Bulgaria = 33%

Germaniathane
Sunday, April 30th, 2017, 04:29 AM
I have travelled across Europe and the Blondest region in Continental Europe is North Holland (Friesland and Groningen). Another area of great Blondism is North Germany (Kiel and East Friesland).:)

It is not the blondest, but one of the lightest-haired, 81% are light-haired.

Germaniathane
Sunday, April 30th, 2017, 04:33 AM
I have travelled across Europe and the Blondest region in Continental Europe is North Holland (Friesland and Groningen). Another area of great Blondism is North Germany (Kiel and East Friesland).:)

In the Netherlands, Groningen is blondest-haired and lightest-haired. Approximately 81% have light hair.

Germaniathane
Sunday, April 30th, 2017, 05:37 AM
England hardly deserves a mention. I am a natural 'proper' blonde (not blondey brown or anything!) and I am struggling to think of a single person I know who shares my hair colour by nature.

I know plenty of English people who are naturally blonde. What are you talking about? These are just English athletes who were part of the Olympic team for Great Britain in 2012.

From Central England
Lucilla Wright
http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Lucilla+Wright+Team+GB+Kitting+Out+E5u3C tycg58l.jpg
From Southeast England
Rachel Cawthorne
http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Lucilla+Wright+Team+GB+Kitting+Out+E5u3C tycg58l.jpg
Daniel Awde
http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Daniel+Awde+Team+GB+Kitting+Out+GO5kXPuT Sd6l.jpg
From Northeast England
Ed Scott
http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Daniel+Awde+Team+GB+Kitting+Out+GO5kXPuT Sd6l.jpg
Alistair Wilson
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Alastair+Wilson+Team+GB+Men+Hockey+Squad +Announced+K09KPQi1nIQl.jpg

Utgards-Loke
Thursday, November 2nd, 2017, 10:34 PM
From blondest to least blonde in my opinion(based on the countries featured in the poll)

1. Finland
2. Sweden
3. Norway
4. Iceland
5. Denmark
6. Holland
7. Germany
8. UK

I have been to all of these countries, with the exception of Iceland and Finland.
But I have read that Finland have the highest ratio of natural blondes in the world.

Germaniathane
Tuesday, November 14th, 2017, 05:35 PM
It is interesting that many people worship the Blondism however the Finnics and the Slavs have far blonder than the Germanics or us, the Germans. Especielly the average German hair is the brown and lesser common the dark golden blond, the black, the red and at least the light blond. The blue eyes are not general too, the most common the mid-blue, lesser common the light-brown, the sky-blue, the dark-brown and the green.

Don't confuse Germanics with Germans. Germanics are found in more Northern and Central European countries than just Germany. Yes, the most common hair color in Germany is not the "true" blond! The majority of Germans have light brown to dark blonde hair while red hair is the least commonest nearly 1%. Approximately 35% have blue eyes and another 30% have either gray or green eyes, the rest brown.

mangog
Wednesday, April 11th, 2018, 09:17 AM
No, 25% of the United Kingdom is blonde-haired. England has a higher figure than that.

I have been in England many times and i have never seen many blonde people..

This map is misleading.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bbb3035d4f4597ac754df178e9eb0a11-c


https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8670e18f2ea0c32c230bac9e3a4face3

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-19a5a68ff451ba15a35df4076649c450

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8a605f40ac49decbe7e906aff699b7be
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7ca9b537c68afdc9fcd2130c04551aaa
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f0ff37777376b233b514a36a81670ba1

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-27dd6c8156bded289040144093f38ef7


Only Robert Plant- Led Zeppelin - and Roger Daltrey - Who - .... are more and less blonde...less than 10%

26 = 24 Black or dark brown hair + 2 medium blonde

Aelfgar
Wednesday, April 11th, 2018, 10:22 AM
In northwest England about 14% are light-blond.

Jäger
Saturday, April 14th, 2018, 07:17 AM
I have been in England many times and i have never seen many blonde people..

This map is misleading.
The map speaks about light hair, not blonde. Light hair includes the lighter shades of brown.

mangog
Saturday, April 14th, 2018, 07:24 AM
The map speaks about light hair, not blonde. Light hair includes the lighter shades of brown.


It is not possible that in Germany (espacially North germany ) there are less blonde ( or light brown) people than in east england.
And in my opinion the wrong color in the map is that of England.

Finnish Swede
Saturday, April 14th, 2018, 01:18 PM
This is probable one of the matters which I have wondered since the time my memory starts. Yes, I have compared Swedes, Finnish Swedes and Finns all the time .

I have been couple of times in other Nordic countrics (except Iceland) and Baltic countries (except Lithuania..will done that finally now summer 2018).

I don't have any specific data ....just a feelings...and for me this question partly goes....which hair colour (how dark brown) is still calculated as a light one?

LdyPrussia
Saturday, April 14th, 2018, 05:56 PM
I know that Lithuania and Latvia who are Slavic tend to be the blondest. It is why that I don't go by true Nordics are mostly blond because Baltic Slavics also have a very high blond rate. I read an article last week that claimed Norwegian Vikings really had more red hair like Eric the Red by looking at real genetics maps and settlements of Vikings, which introduced more red-hair genes in those regions like Russia, the Rhineland, and parts of Ireland. Movies romanticized Viking with the pure blonds. I have red-heads in my family as well as white blonds so it varies over the generations. Vikings may have been more red than blond.

Finnish Swede
Saturday, April 14th, 2018, 06:13 PM
I know that Lithuania and Latvia who are Slavic tend to be the blondest. It is why that I don't go by true Nordics are mostly blond because Baltic Slavics also have a very high blond rate. I read an article last week that claimed Norwegian Vikings really had more red hair like Eric the Red by looking at real genetics maps and settlements of Vikings, which introduced more red-hair genes in those regions like Russia, the Rhineland, and parts of Ireland. Movies romanticized Viking with the pure blonds. I have red-heads in my family as well as white blonds so it varies over the generations. Vikings may have been more red than blond.

Well..sorry, but my personal image is that Estonians have more blondes than Latvians. And I assume it will be same with Lithuanians as well. Sometimes I even wonder which % of blonde Latvians are actually descendants of Finno Ugric Livonians (atleast same Latvians have said that they were discribed more lighter than Baltic Latvians in their old writings).

But again...light hair maps like above...showing that high %.... those are far from blondes. To get that high number...anywhere in the world...one has to calculated atleast sand brown hair people as light haired (how dark brown...no idea). Doing it like that the differencies in % are automatically very small between Finland, 3 Baltic states and Scandinavia. The same would become much much more interest if only for example flaxen-haired blondes (like me) would be calculated. That's what I meant.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Sunday, April 15th, 2018, 03:46 AM
I believe that Blondism is perhaps strongest with N genes, if not I Y-DNA. This is the truest Nordic reservoir of blood, not any type of Indo-European, which all seem to be variations on a theme, influenced elsewhere by Basques, Caucasians and Dravidians, but otherwise having a central foundation. Therefore, Germanic and Celtic seem Nordic by relation with the Uralics, whilst Greco-Romans would be Mediterranean by their relation to the Basques. Similarly, among Satem-speakers, Christian Balto-Slavs, Albanians and Armenians would have to be tied to Caucasians, with non-Christian Indo-Iranians to Dravidians.

Germaniathane
Thursday, August 9th, 2018, 04:45 AM
I have been in England many times and i have never seen many blonde people..

This map is misleading.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bbb3035d4f4597ac754df178e9eb0a11-c


https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8670e18f2ea0c32c230bac9e3a4face3

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-19a5a68ff451ba15a35df4076649c450

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8a605f40ac49decbe7e906aff699b7be
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7ca9b537c68afdc9fcd2130c04551aaa
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f0ff37777376b233b514a36a81670ba1

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-27dd6c8156bded289040144093f38ef7


Only Robert Plant- Led Zeppelin - and Roger Daltrey - Who - .... are more and less blonde...less than 10%

26 = 24 Black or dark brown hair + 2 medium blonde

You are the one misleading us by posting pictures of brown-haired British people only. They are not all English by the way. Someone else could do the same with German, Dutch, Scandinavian people. The fact of the matter is that 25% of the United Kingdom people are naturally blond, and in England it is higher!

Germaniathane
Thursday, August 9th, 2018, 07:12 AM
I have been in England many times and i have never seen many blonde people..

This map is misleading.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bbb3035d4f4597ac754df178e9eb0a11-c


https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8670e18f2ea0c32c230bac9e3a4face3

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-19a5a68ff451ba15a35df4076649c450

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8a605f40ac49decbe7e906aff699b7be
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7ca9b537c68afdc9fcd2130c04551aaa
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f0ff37777376b233b514a36a81670ba1

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-27dd6c8156bded289040144093f38ef7


Only Robert Plant- Led Zeppelin - and Roger Daltrey - Who - .... are more and less blonde...less than 10%

26 = 24 Black or dark brown hair + 2 medium blonde

https://nationalufocenter.com/file/2016/12/BlondesEuropeMap.gif

Germans are by no means exclusively blond! A good pic there

http://binaryapi.ap.org/9e12bd6b4b7048109edc6f3ff0fa6184/512x.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/09/25/article-1315155-0B586BF6000005DC-997_634x356.jpg
http://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=TOLZIGZt&id=A6D5414B44A683EFF799070E4B466066DFFB9 EC0&thid=OIP.TOLZIGZtQf5EQDAExJGShQHaLN&q=dark+germans&simid=608012628294041943&selectedIndex=16
It is a fact that Germany is far from being a uniformly blond-haired country. Due to the geographic location, northern parts of Germany show a relatively high blondism while the southern parts are nowhere close. While in England, there is no great differences in blondism between regions. Though overall the majority of Germans approximately 55% - 60% have light hair (blond, brown, red hair shades) , let's not confuse light hair with blond hair.
Frequency of blond hair:
Germany
Schleswig-Holstein = 46%
Northern Germany = 43%
Thuringia = 36%
Northern Brandenburg and Berlin areas = 33%
Swabia = 32%
Northern Rhineland and Bavaria = 30%
Hesse = 22%
Ruhr = 21%
Saxony Free State = 20%
Rhineland Palatinate = 19%
Baden, Frankish Bavaria, Saarland and Lusatia = 15%
England
Northern England = 37%
Eastern England = 36.7%
South East England = 35.8%
The Humber and Yorkshire = 34.3%
East Midlands = 33.2%
South West England = 32.1%
West Midlands = 31.2%

Finnish Swede
Friday, August 10th, 2018, 08:32 AM
Whose blonde (how dark hair person can still be calculated as one kind of (dark?) blonde)?

Are we only comparing ethnic Swedish vs ethnic Finns or all people who lives in those countries and have their citizenships?

Danielion
Friday, August 10th, 2018, 02:26 PM
Finland. Not sure whom they're followed by, though. Sweden? Norway? Estonia?

Something tells me Estonians are also very blonde, but the ethnic Russian drive their blonde percentage down (though a blonde Russian isn't 'rare', still less common than a blonde Estonian)

Aelfgar
Saturday, August 11th, 2018, 09:08 PM
The equally interesting questions are where blond hair originated and how it spread to the places where it is now most frequent.

Finnish Swede
Sunday, August 12th, 2018, 07:49 AM
The equally interesting questions are where blond hair originated and how it spread to the places where it is now most frequent.

Yup.

Anyway ... I don't fully byte the idea that Finns would have gotten it fully from Scandinavians.There are blonde Finno-Ugric populations in Russia too (for example Vepsians) ... who has not been contacted/mixed with Scandinavians like Finns.

Is it absolutely sure today that older Northern European I1 people did't carry blondism at all? So only R1 men? If that is true then N1C1 men have needed to get it someway .... and much less but still ... Russians arctic populations western side of Ural mountains. If Finno-Ugrics have gotten that from slavics (Russians who migrate to area of Russia) ... it feels weird that today some Finno Ugrics carries that more than ethnic Russians.

Finnish Swede
Sunday, August 12th, 2018, 10:05 PM
Lets add this here ... looks like that the oldest founded blond hair human (so far) has been Finno-Ugric in Russia.

See case: Afontova Gora 3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afontova_Gora

''Phenotypic analysis shows that Afontova Gora 3 carries the derived rs12821256 allele associated with blond hair color in Europeans, making Afontova Gora 3 the earliest individual known to carry this derived allele''

Þoreiðar
Sunday, August 12th, 2018, 11:41 PM
The equally interesting questions are where blond hair originated and how it spread to the places where it is now most frequent.Without having much expertise the subject, I don't think blond hair "originated" in one place or in one time in history. Unlike eye color, which has a very distinctive line and bears a very strict heritable pattern, hair color is much more fluid and can show up differently "out of nowhere", heritably speaking.

And if Aboriginals and Polynesians can be naturally blonde, I think different European populations could have separately evolved to exhibit blondism.

Aelfgar
Thursday, August 16th, 2018, 10:47 PM
https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/09/24/blond-hair-originated-last-ice-age-11000-years-ago/

"An alternative theory presented by Canadian anthropologist Peter Frost provides a less complex origin for variations in hair color. According to Frost, the evolution of blond hair was not a gradual process of genetic mutation: rather, it was a sudden occurrence, caused by another aspect of evolution known as 'sexual selection.' Frost explains that at the end of the last Ice Age, there was an environment of fierce competition among the females of the northern European regions for suitable male partners, as males were comparatively scarce during that time. The blond hair and blue eyes made these women stand out and made sexual selection easier for them. Thus, blond hair and blue eyes meant a healthy partner, ensuring the survival of these genes over many generations.
Currently, there is no accepted theory regarding the true origins of blond hair. However, there seems to be a consensus among researchers that the evolution of blond hair did take place more than once; this hypothesis carries much credibility among scientists worldwide."

So, according to that, a lower number of men were choosing blonde women as partners and so the blond gene(s) proliferated. But how exactly did males become scarce?

Finnish Swede
Friday, August 17th, 2018, 08:24 AM
''The blond hair and blue eyes made these women stand out and made sexual selection easier for them. Thus, blond hair and blue eyes meant a healthy partner, ensuring the survival of these genes over many generations.''


LOL. Looks like Mother Nature (here meaning men ... subconsciously) have ''known'' better .... as the estrogen levels are often higher with blonde women.

Aelfgar
Saturday, August 18th, 2018, 10:18 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/jun/04/men-blonde-women-attractive

" . . . Sexual selection would certainly have been a powerful driving force behind evolution in northern Europeans. Late Palaeolithic females in southern Europe and Africa could forage for food and feed themselves and their infants, with males occasionally supplementing their diet with meat. In northern Europe, however, where ice covered much of the terrain, people were dependent on meat. Bands of men went in search of herds of prehistoric bison or mammoth. These hunting trips were dangerous, resulting in many fatalities.

It has been suggested that as a result this was a time of intense sexual rivalry between females due to their numbers exceeding those of males. At any given time far more fertile women than men were left unmated, so females had to compete for mates and for a favourable share of meat. The theory is that when given the choice, Pelaeolithic males chose blondes, who stood out from their rivals.

. . . There are higher numbers of females born blonde than males and retention of blonde hair into adulthood is a sexually selected indicator of fitness in females. Caucasian blondes are usually slightly higher in oestrogen than brunettes and are likely to exhibit other infantile sexually selected traits (indicating low levels of testosterone) that are considered desirable by males, for example finer facial features, smaller nose, smaller jaw, pointed chin, narrow shoulders, smooth skin and less body hair, and infantile behaviour such as higher energy levels and playfulness."

So it seems the best basic explanation as to why blonds are more frequent in Fenno-Scandinavia is that food was harder to obtain than in the British Isles and Germany, with fewer men surviving there. But later migrations must have had an effect as well. Though I think actual Viking influence is over-estimated by hobbyists.