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Frans_Jozef
Monday, June 20th, 2005, 05:48 PM
Talk of the Devil-Bird

International Names for the Common Swift

by Simon Whitechapel

Swifts are to Swallows rather as Austrians are to Germans or Ukrainians are to Russians: despite being quite distinct and worthy of interest and respect in their own right, they are often confused with their more famous and more numerous cousins. This confusion between Swifts and Swallows has a long and some might even say honorable history, because it can be found in centuries-old translations of the Bible: in Luther’s German Bible and the English King James Bible inspired by it, for example:
Isaiah 38:14 Ich winselte wie ein Kranich und wie ein Schwalbe und girrte wie eine Taube.2 (http://web.onetel.com/%7Eamygdala/essays/devilbird.html#2down) Like a crane or a Swallow, so did I chatter: I did mourn as a dove.3 (http://web.onetel.com/%7Eamygdala/essays/devilbird.html#3down)

Jeremiah 8:7 Ein Storch unter dem Himmel weiss seine Zeit, eine Turteltaube, Kranich und Schwalbe merken ihre Zeit.

Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the Swallow observe the time of their coming.

In each case “Schwalbe” or “Swallow” should actually be translated “Mauersegler” or “Swift”, though in fact the situation is even more complicated than that. In modern Hebrew, “Swift” is written סיס sys and pronounced siis, but in Biblical Hebrew it is written סוס sws. That would be pronounced suus and would literally mean “horse”, and although there has obviously been a scribal mistake, the text of the Hebrew Bible is sacred and can no longer be altered. The solution, as it is for many other mistakes in the Hebrew Bible, is to mark the reading as defective and supply the correct one in a footnote. So we have suus, or rather siis, written sws, but meaning sys, with the clear and unambiguous meaning of “Swift”. Or do we?
http://web.onetel.com/~amygdala/essays/devilbird.html

Dr. Solar Wolff
Tuesday, June 21st, 2005, 07:04 AM
OK Frans, ist eine Taube a pigeon or a dove and what the hell is the difference between a pigeon and a dove anyway?

Frans_Jozef
Tuesday, June 21st, 2005, 08:13 AM
OK Frans, ist eine Taube a pigeon or a dove and what the hell is the difference between a pigeon and a dove anyway?
The terms are usually swapped, but smaller species are keyed out as doves.
Taube is used for doves and pidgeons alike; there's no alternative term to my knowledge nor in Dutch, but in French one might say pigeon and colombre.

morfrain_encilgar
Tuesday, June 21st, 2005, 02:22 PM
OK Frans, ist eine Taube a pigeon or a dove and what the hell is the difference between a pigeon and a dove anyway?

Theyre different species.

QuietWind
Tuesday, June 21st, 2005, 06:06 PM
Everything I look up essentially refers to them as either the same creature or as "cousins" and lists superficial features such as coloring and size to distinguish them. :(

http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/Species%20Tables/Columbiformes.htm

http://sherpaguides.com/georgia/atlanta_urban_wildlife/creature_feature/

I thought it would be fun to make a little quiz to see if you can spot the difference between a pigeon and a dove. Right click the image below (as if you are going to "save as") in order to see whether it is saved as a dove or pigeon. :)

morfrain_encilgar
Tuesday, June 21st, 2005, 06:20 PM
Everything I look up essentially refers to them as either the same creature or as "cousins" and lists superficial features such as coloring and size to distinguish them. :(

http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/Species%20Tables/Columbiformes.htm

http://sherpaguides.com/georgia/atlanta_urban_wildlife/creature_feature/

I thought it would be fun to make a little quiz to see if you can spot the difference between a pigeon and a dove. Right click the image below (as if you are going to "save as") in order to see whether it is saved as a dove or pigeon. :)

Theres no phylogenetic distinction in the pigeon family between pigeons and doves, both can be in he same genus. The ancestral form of the domesticated pigeon is the rock dove, but there are also wild species called pigeons.

Uwe Jens Lornsen
Wednesday, May 9th, 2018, 05:28 PM
I have observed the first Swallow Schwalbe birds today in the northernmost State of Germany.

It is felt like one week earlier than average.

The weather is almost cloud-free since approx. one week and also hot and dry.

https://dofbasen.dk/ART/art.php?art=09920


I Danmark er arten en almindelig ynglefugl på gårde med husdyrhold, specielt med kreaturer, men den optræder også som ynglefugl i byer. Landsvalen forekommer talrigt i Sydvestjylland, Himmerland, Thy og Vendsyssel og på Sydvestsjælland. Det kan skyldes, at der her er et relativt udbredt kvæghold. På sydøstvendte kyster som Falster, Møn og Østfyn kan det være gunstige klimatiske betingelser, der giver en høj tæthed.