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Evolved
Tuesday, July 15th, 2003, 06:18 PM
Fag Face: Is there a physical basis for identifying male homosexuality?

Features I identified when examining the phenomenon of "fag faced" men:

Very close set eyes, occassionally crosseyed or cockeyed.

Wide mouth, the width of the mouth extends beyond the width of the lips.

Here is an extreme case of fag face:

http://www.hungarian-models.com/boys/029/pic01.jpg

Has anyone else noticed this?

Milesian
Tuesday, July 15th, 2003, 06:30 PM
Yup, I have. It's part of the old "Gaydar" that anyone who isn't afflicted by a liberal mindset can use to recognise such deviants.

In saying that, not all gay men have that look, but those who do are usually always homosexuals.

I wonder what it is.
There are some conditions which affect people's appearance.
I'm thinking primarily of Down's Syndrome (as an extreme example) where sufferer's share a trait of looking Mongoloid and all look very similar.
I think perhaps the same could be said of gay men.
MAny of them do seem to have that "look" about them which marks them out.

Loki
Tuesday, July 15th, 2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by ladygoeth33
Fag Face: Is there a physical basis for identifying male homosexuality?

Features I identified when examining the phenomenon of "fag faced" men:

Very close set eyes, occassionally crosseyed or cockeyed.

Wide mouth, the width of the mouth extends beyond the width of the lips.

Here is an extreme case of fag face:

Has anyone else noticed this?

Hmmm... interesting. It would be hard to prove this conclusively, though. I have seen all different kinds of homosexual men (not that I hang around with them ;) ).

Anyone has some additional thoughts? This could be interesting.

hardcorps
Tuesday, July 15th, 2003, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Loki
Anyone has some additional thoughts?

My 'gaydar' is notoriously bad! Whenever I see an obviously white man, I like to think of him as a potential WN comrade. I'm loath to think ill of white people. This probably retards my gay radar a little!

One thing I've noticed re gay men's appearance is that they often try especially hard to make themselves look good - compared to normal men. Which probably doesn't speak well of us 'normal' men!

Obviously I don't spend a great deal of time studying them in their habitat LOL, but I have seen this: a high proportion of deep, brown eyes (NO PUN INTENDED!) in subraces where a lighter colour is generally more common. Really though, this may be nothing. If a barrage of posters repeated the same observation, that WOULD be interesting.

Honestly, the only way I can usually tell a gay is from their 'fem' behaviour and speaking style, which often go along with strong fashion sensibilities and a notable tendency to try to 'keep trim' or go to the gym.


Possibly there's also a certain 'facial expression' that leaves an imprint on a gay's face - this might account for some of the characteristics (affectations?) LG noted:


Very close set eyes, occassionally crosseyed or cockeyed.

Wide mouth, the width of the mouth extends beyond the width of the lips.

The phenomenon of culturally-derived facial expressions is known to interfere with racial classification. (It can be a lot harder to tell a Jew if they do not have that characteristically pathetic-cunning look from growing up 'True-Jew,' and instead hold their jaws firm and gaze direct.)

Being 'cock-eyed' and 'wide-mouthed,' for example, might be seen as signs of sexual provocation and readiness (respectively!) in the gays' deviant subculture. Thus, they are deliberately exaggerated and eventually attain fixity in the features.

If fag-face is anything, I think it's an acquired facial expression/imprint.

In general usage, though, fag-face is when a guy is staring at you (if you're a man) in smiling fashion and it's 'creeping you the hell out':stop:sick

Remember, too, the only way to correctly measure these things is by observing a random spread of gays. A gay website is probably going to show the male ideal(s) for gay men - not average, representative examples.

Milesian
Tuesday, July 15th, 2003, 10:03 PM
Interesting hardcorps, I hadn't thought about it as being deliberate expressions. I think there probably are certain facial expressions peculiar to their own sub-culture (SUB emphasised).
I mean that guy looks as if he's holding his cheeks in (facial cheeks that is :rollani ) perhaps to emphasis his cheek bones (I'm about to give up here)
But I do think there is more to it than that. There does seem to be a look which is hardwired into the faces of many gay men.

Of course there are other attributes as well.
Such as the characteristic (and overly-exaggerated) feminine walk and the weak ligaments and muscles around the wrist which cause it to assume the limp position. :throwup

Nordgau
Tuesday, July 15th, 2003, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Milesian

Of course there are other attributes as well.
Such as the characteristic (and overly-exaggerated) feminine walk and the weak ligaments and muscles around the wrist which cause it to assume the limp position. :throwup

I don't know if it's the same in other countries, but in Germany the Fags have a special way to talk. This way to talk is often imitated in television, cabaret jokes, movies etc.

Not all fags do talk so and it maybe is exaggerated when imitated but this fag talking really exists. It's not a homophob phantom. One often can hear it when one hears prominent fags in TV talking. It's a bit like an own "accent" of their sub-culture. But a good question is what really is the reason for fag talking, because even fags who don't hang around in that subculture and who try to behave despite of their fagness normal, often have it, or at least slightly. Even if the fags perhaps in their sub culture cultivate this way of talking, it isn't just a sub culture "slang" that they give one to another. This "feminine" fag talking is perhaps just somehow like "feminine" fag walking a result of the developed inner life of the average fag, of fag's feeling and behaviour and so an expression of fag's nature itself.

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Tuesday, July 15th, 2003, 10:31 PM
yeah the fags here in Canada have their own way of talking as well. I believe it is a world-wide phenomenon! LOL

"oh I just love you in thothe sthoes!" Somehow when men are gay and feminine, they develop a lisp! As well as limp wrists!

"Sthuper! thank you for asthking!"

Milesian
Tuesday, July 15th, 2003, 10:35 PM
That's a good point. I notice in English speaking countries (well, UK and US at least) fags tend to talk with a lisp as well.
Again not all but it's present in a lot.

There really does seem to be certain distinctions which they share. I wonder if there is anything in some countries which marks them out, which perhaps isn't present in other countries. Also those which seem common and transcend national and cultural borders.

As for the "fag talking" you describe, I think it is present here to a certain extent as well.
I assume that has a lot to do with them being show-offs, extroverts, flamboyant and having a love of theatre, drama and constant attention seeking, which is why so many are actors or involved in showbiz.
I think perhaps they admire and seek to emulate the camp mannerisms of other gays on television.
Again, I think much of it is due to them seeking to appear feminine (but end up grossly over-emphasising it to the point it becomes a parody of feminine behaviour which I believe is often the origin of camp behaviour)

Nordgau
Tuesday, July 15th, 2003, 11:19 PM
I'm not so sure in this moment if the German fags lisp. I think those who talk really extreme and fully "fag", indeed do. Very characteristically for German fag talking is to speak and emphasize vocals and words in a very "broad" way and all in all to speak very "softly".

CelticLover
Wednesday, July 16th, 2003, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by ladygoeth33
Fag Face: Is there a physical basis for identifying male homosexuality?

Features I identified when examining the phenomenon of "fag faced" men:

Very close set eyes, occassionally crosseyed or cockeyed.

Wide mouth, the width of the mouth extends beyond the width of the lips.

OMG what a funny subject, but everything you've said is so true. The one trait I seem to notice a lot on gays (besides the lisp and effeminate mannerisms) is the mouth - there is something about it that makes me sick and the way they talk, a lot of them move their lips in a funny way. It just makes me want to :throwup. Case in point, has anyone ever seen that ultra fag senator Barney Frank? http://www.house.gov/frank/bfissue.jpg I just want to toss my cookies whenever I see him talking because I picture where his mouth has been. :sick :throwup He literally turns my stomach.

CelticLover
Wednesday, July 16th, 2003, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by Thorburnulf
I'm not so sure in this moment if the German fags lisp.

LOL I thought the fag lisp was a universal thing :rofl

Evolved
Monday, October 27th, 2003, 06:01 AM
You know you're dealing with "fag face" when you look at a guy and you say to yourself not "He's gay!" but "There's no way in a thousand years that he could be straight." :P

One such guy who comes to mind...

http://www.bravotv.com/images/Queer_Eye_for_the_Straight_Guy/carson_bio_pic.jpg

Prodigal Son
Tuesday, October 28th, 2003, 01:36 AM
Straightening the Gays (http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=10472)

Awar
Tuesday, October 28th, 2003, 01:43 AM
I've read about a method some psychiatrist devised that 100% cures homosexuality, but apparently his clinic was shut-down before you can say 'lisp' :)

Prodigal Son
Tuesday, October 28th, 2003, 01:46 AM
I've read about a method some psychiatrist devised that 100% cures homosexuality, but apparently his clinic was shut-down before you can say 'lisp' :)


Yeah, that's the way things are in our politically correct society.. Next thing you know, serial killers will cease being perverts and turn into a 'lifestyle' (and of course, every "lifestye" is just as good as every other one).

Awar
Tuesday, October 28th, 2003, 01:52 AM
Painfully true. I predict that the next thing that will be legalized and endorsed by the 'you know who' is going to be paedophillia.

RoundskullBoredguy
Tuesday, October 28th, 2003, 02:34 AM
Hate to say it, but you may be right about that. :-O

Scoob
Tuesday, October 28th, 2003, 04:46 AM
That's a good point. I notice in English speaking countries (well, UK and US at least) fags tend to talk with a lisp as well.
Again not all but it's present in a lot.

I wonder about the origin of the gay lisp in English speaking countries.

See the movie "Braveheart" with Mel Gibson - it shows the English (Norman, I believe) aristocrats speaking with a lisp. Maybe gays got the idea from that manner of speaking, which was considered more "refined".

Or maybe homosexuals have a therious thpeech impediment that is organic in origin.

Osmosis
Tuesday, October 28th, 2003, 07:59 AM
"Wide mouth, the width of the mouth extends beyond the width of the lips."


I will not rise to the thought that a wide mouth is necessary to accomodate members of the male population (as is implied in thecorrespondents observation regardingthegaysenator), but a wide mouth is an advantage for theatrical and womanly activities such as cabaret singing and popular exhibitionism ofthemusical varieties.

Examples such as George Michael, Mark Almond and 'Sir' Elton John thrust themselves forward .

One could thus argue that a 'fag mouth' seems to be an advantage in theworld of singing and entertaining at a certain level. ;)

Evolved
Wednesday, October 29th, 2003, 11:12 AM
I've read stories about gays and lesbians who straightened themselves out through religion. Those who believe in God find it very insulting when gays claim "God made me this way." Here's what various religions have to say about homosexuality:

Christianity:
The Bible states in Leviticus 20:13: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

1 Kings 15:12: And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

Jude 1:7: Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Romans 1:26-27: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Islam:
Prophet Lut (a.s.) said to his people: "Verily, you do sodomy with men, and rob the wayfarer! And practice all wickedness in your meetings" (Qur'an 29:29). And he said to them: "Of all the creatures of the world, will you approach males, and leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your wives? Nay, you are a trespassing people!" (Qur'an 26:165-166) But their answer to Prophet Lut (a.s.) was: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if you are telling us the Truth." (Qur'an 29:29). And so Allah gave them the punishment they deserved: "And We rained on them a rain of torment. And how evil was the rain of those who had been warned" (Qur'an 26:173). The punishment for homosexuality in unmarried men is 100 lashes, for a married man death by stoning, for a lesbian it is determined on an individual basis differently. Some have even ruled that it should be death for both partners, because the Prophet :saw said: "Kill the doer and the one to whom it was done."

Hinduism:
There is no condemnation of homosexuality in Hindu scripture. Specific mention is made in the Kama Sutra (4th century AD), which presents sexual expression as a form of divine worship: gay men (tritiya prakriti, the 'third sex') have a whole chapter devoted to them. Lesbians are referred to as svarini, women known for their independence, who refuse husbands and have relations in their own homes.

Buddhism:
Zen Buddhism does not make a distinction between heterosexual and homosexual sex. It encourages sexual relationships that are mutually loving and supportive. The Dalai Lama is the leader of the Tibetan people and is revered by millions of Buddhists worldwide. At a press conference in 1997-JUN, he commented: "From a Buddhist point of view lesbian and gay sex is generally considered sexual misconduct". From the Theravada Buddhist standpoint, all relationships: gay, lesbian or straight, are often considered personal matters of mutual consent. If a relationship promotes the happiness and well-being of both parties, then it is positive and acceptable.

Confucianism:
Confucianism was canonized during the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911), with emphasis put on strict obedience to the social order. That is to say, both wife and husband should always remember their correct relationship, but homosexuals went directly against such rules. Then, in 1740, the first anti-homosexual decree in Chinese history was promulgated, defining voluntarily homosexual intercourse between adults as illegal. Though there were no records on the effectiveness of this decree, it was the first time homosexuality had been subject to legal proscription in China.

Judaism:
In Leviticus 18:22, the Torah prohibits male homosexual sex, and labels this practice as a to'evah (abominable). Rabbinic Judaism, however, is not based on a direct reading of the Written Torah as such, but rather on the elucidation of the Written Torah through the information contained in the Oral Torah - The Midrash, Mishna and Talmud. In the Oral Torah we learn that the halakha (Jewish law) strictly prohibits all forms of male homosexual sex; although female homosexual sex is technically allowed, it is severely looked down upon as immodest and licentious.

*Despite this, Judaism is the most accepting of homosexuality, there are many gay and lesbian rabbis, except for ultra-orthodox Hassids.*

If you don't believe in religion, it's also unnatural behavior, and it's not purposeful behavior. Another BIG reason why homosexuality is detrimental to society as a whole is that it promotes a mindset by which people believe they can and should act out their every impulse. Gays show a lack of self-restraint in their sexuality and a flagrant flaunting that heterosexuals find repugnant. I went to a normal, family bookstore found about 10 magazines there specifically for sexual deviations. The acceptance and promotion of homosexuality can and likely will lead to the promotion of even sicker, demented practices. :insulted

Awar
Wednesday, October 29th, 2003, 11:37 AM
I agree that homosexuality is 'bad', but it's also been around ever since the beginning of mankind. You can't close your eyes to that.

I don't really care if there is a sexual relation between any two consenting adults, but:

1. popularization of homosexuality is damaging to the sexual development of young men and women everywhere.

2. There must be researched methods for curing this condition, whether psychiatry or something else, I don't care.

Religion can set a group of rules that outlaw homosexuality, but I don't believe it can solve the problem. What good is a man who is a homosexual, but doesn't practice homosexuality simply because of fear of damnation.

I say it's better for him to be cured ( if they find a real cure for this ) than for him to suffer trying to lead a normal life, but all the way having erections from seeing the postman :)

Religion can be a good basis, but it doesn't solve the problem totally.

Ogmios
Thursday, October 30th, 2003, 09:09 PM
Hasanyone noticed that 'fags' have a predilection towards certain activities (No not those obvious activities), I mean professional activities:
hairdressing and working in barbers shops is one obvious example.

My local haircutters establishment consists of three Phillipino barbers as 'camp as a row of tents', shaved body hair, full make up and they swan around like Mae West on Cocaine :onfire - but they do a good cheap haircut, and the entertainment value is high(akin to watching a road accident) is great :-O

As a 'westrerner' in the fundamentalist world, they are also probably safer that sitting down to be cut by an arab/potential Al Qaeda sympathising barber............

back to the point: Fags are over-represented in the gents haicutting arena>
N'est ce pas?.

Milesian
Thursday, October 30th, 2003, 09:34 PM
I think the reason for them going into the barber profession is obvious, they get to be around men and be in close contact with them, touch their hair, brush past them, etc.

They seem attracted to the arts and become designers, actors, etc.
This is probably because they are flamoyant and are often attention-seekers.
While they often excel at things such as clothes designing and interior decorating, they do have a tendency towards the vulgar and tasteless.
British daytime television is full of cheap shows about re-decorating people's homes and stuff, and everyone of those shows without fail is full of homosexual men. One curious thing I've noted is the sudden glut of antiques shows, where people dig up old objects from their house and sell them at auction.
They seem to have found a new niche in this area as well

Probably because they like to nosey around people's homes and bitch about everything ;)

They are indeed a strange group of people.

cosmocreator
Thursday, October 30th, 2003, 09:50 PM
I don't like fags touching me at all. I prefer a woman to cut my hair.

Loki
Thursday, October 30th, 2003, 10:09 PM
I prefer a woman to cut my hair.

So do I. Especially a goodlooking one. ;) And there has to be a head massage, too... :p

Gladstone
Thursday, October 30th, 2003, 10:23 PM
So do I. Especially a goodlooking one. ;) And there has to be a head massage, too... :p

This barber I go to actually has a manicurist on duty. Her customers consist almost always of elderly gentlemen who may or may not take baths but once a week, yet they are there getting their nails manicured. It's so obvious, anything to cop a feel for some of these guys.;)

cosmocreator
Thursday, October 30th, 2003, 10:29 PM
So do I.

Yes, but do you have a female doctor? I do. I guess I must be a homophobe. :-O

Gladstone
Thursday, October 30th, 2003, 10:42 PM
Fag Face: Is there a physical basis for identifying male homosexuality?

Features I identified when examining the phenomenon of "fag faced" men:

Very close set eyes, occassionally crosseyed or cockeyed.

Wide mouth, the width of the mouth extends beyond the width of the lips.

Here is an extreme case of fag face:

http://www.hungarian-models.com/boys/029/pic01.jpg

Has anyone else noticed this?

That picture looks exactly like the lead singer of Kajagoogoo (Lamahl?). That guy was most likely gay or bisexual.

Loki
Thursday, October 30th, 2003, 11:29 PM
Yes, but do you have a female doctor? I do. I guess I must be a homophobe. :-O

You lucky man. I once went on a medical trial, and was pampered (while getting paid) by some nice friendly nurses, one of them being a gorgeous tall blonde from Finland. ;)

cosmocreator
Thursday, October 30th, 2003, 11:31 PM
You lucky man. I once went on a medical trial,


I once did that too. But I didn't get pampered. :~(

Awar
Thursday, October 30th, 2003, 11:42 PM
You lucky man. I once went on a medical trial, and was pampered (while getting paid) by some nice friendly nurses, one of them being a gorgeous tall blonde from Finland. ;)

Is there a Smilie to express my unending envy!

Bah! At least I got free diving lessons from a hot Swedish girl ( she was a certified diving instructor ) so :P :D

Ogmios
Friday, October 31st, 2003, 07:04 PM
"I don't like fags touching me at all. I prefer a woman to cut my hair".sys a respondent.

I also don't like the thought of fags touching me, but, have never ever yet met a female barber that can give a good haircut - have you?.
Only fags would go to a 'hairdresser' anyway?. Hairdresser? :shoot I onlygo to a barbers.

Re: Female Doctors are great; I once had a blood clot in a certain zone following a sporting injury that made my 'nads swell up to an unfeasibly huge size. Both the 'patient', and I , had great personal care and attention from the lady Doctor concerned :carrot .