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alphaknave
Monday, May 30th, 2005, 01:46 AM
I have been looking a bit into Old Norse (Old Icelandic in particular) and it is surprisingly similar to modern Norweigen and Swedish. Since I don't know either of those, it's all new to me. I found this site for beginners: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/

Does anyone know of anything else?

Also, what is the relation of Old English to Old Norse?
Thanks ahaid of time.

Theudanaz
Monday, May 30th, 2005, 02:14 AM
Hi, glad you're interested in this stuff.

Old English and Old Norse were approximately "cousins".

Most Old English we read was written in or is regularized according to Early West Saxon, the language of King Alfred (about 900 AD). Old Norse skaldic poetry began to grow around the time of Harald Fairhair, about the same time. The Norse sagas we have were written down later, about 13-14th centuries. By this time English was beginning to be unrecognizable from before as Middle English started.

Old English & Old Norse would probably have been partially mutually intelligible, especially after the speakers had known each other for a short time. This goes for the early stages of most Germanic languages. Old Norse was in general more progressive in terms of sound changes (phonology), though probably in many cases more conservative in terms of retaining grammatical endings (morphology). Since the Anglii lived relatively close to the North-Germanic speakers originally, many similarities could be accounted for thus. In England the leveling of forms between Danes (East Norse speakers) and Saxons occurred even more noticeably.

Proto-Germanic (from about 400 BC) was splitting up by around 200 AD, as probably East Germanic separated from Northwest Germanic (though Gothic and Norse have retained certain features in common over against Old English), into Gothic (by 4th c. AD) in the "eastern" branch, Proto-Norse (400 AD) which developed into Old West Norse / Old Icelandic (by 900-1100 AD) and West Germanic (400 AD), where Old English results from a series of changes in NWGerm. by about 800 AD. (Voyles)

Edwin
Tuesday, May 31st, 2005, 11:41 PM
I have been looking a bit into Old Norse (Old Icelandic in particular) and it is surprisingly similar to modern Norweigen and Swedish. Since I don't know either of those, it's all new to me. I found this site for beginners: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/

Does anyone know of anything else?

Also, what is the relation of Old English to Old Norse?
Thanks ahaid of time.

The Haukurth is great, but a little confusing.

A more straightforward approach is supported by the University of Texas.

http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/lrc/eieol/norol-0-X.html

This is the link for the lessons in the traditional orthography, and you must convert if you want to do the lessons easily. For the more modern, choose the non-Unicode option at the bottom of the page, or use this link.

http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/lrc/eieol/norol-0-R.html

Explore the other links for the glossary, etc.

The lessons themselves are best started this way:

1. Set your keyboard to international (use non-unicode lessons)
2. create word document with big text (you will be staring at it)
3. type out first section of old norse text
4. use definitions to produce translation underneath it
5. repeat 3 and 4 until finished

Wait to compare yours with the actual translation until you have finished all the segments.

Sample - part of lesson 1

═sland byg­isk fyrst ˇr Norvegi ß d÷gum Haralds ins Hßrfagra, Hßlfdanarsonar ins Svarta, Ý ■ann tÝ­ ľ at Štlun ok t÷lu ■eira Teits fˇstra mins, ■ess manns er ek kunna spakastan, sonar ═sleifs biskups; ok Ůorkels f÷­urbrˇ­ur mins, Gellissonar, er langt mundi fram; ok ١rÝ­ar Snorradˇttur Go­a, er bŠ­i var margsp÷k ok ˇl˙gfrˇ­ ľ er ═varr, Ragnarsson Lo­brˇkar, lÚt drepa Eadmund inn Helga Englakonung.

═sland, Iceland; byg­isk, was settled; fyrst, first; ˇr, from; Norvegi, Norway; ß, in; d÷gum, the days; Haralds, of Harald; ins, the; Hßrfagra, Fair-Haired; Hßlfdanarsonar, son of Halfdan; ins, the; Svarta, Black; Ý, at; ■ann, that; tÝ­, time; at, according to; Štlun, the opinion; ok, and; t÷lu, reckoning; ■eira, ...; Teits, Teit; fˇstra, foster-brother; mins, my; ■ess, a; manns, man; er, ...; ek, I; kunna, regard; spakastan, very learned; sonar, son; ═sleifs, of ... Isleif; biskups, the bishop; ok, and; Ůorkels, of ... Ůorkels; f÷­urbrˇ­ur, uncle; mins, my; Gellissonar, son of Gellir; er, who; langt, a long time; mundi, could remember; fram, back; ok, and; ١rÝ­ar, of Ůori­; Snorradˇttur, daughter of Snorri; Go­a, the Chief; er, who; bŠ­i, both; var, was; margsp÷k, greatly wise; ok, and; ˇl˙gfrˇ­, steeped in tradition; er, when; ═varr, Ivar; Ragnarsson, son of ... Ragnar; Lo­brˇkar, Shaggy-Breeches; lÚt, ordered; drepa, to be killed; Eadmund, Eadmund; inn, the; Helga, Saint; Englakonung, King of the Angles

Iceland was settled first from Norway in the days of Harald the Fair-Haired, son of Halfdan the Black, at that time - according to the opinion and reckoning of my foster-brother Teit, a man I regard as very learned, son of ═sleif the bishop; and of Ůorkels my uncle, son of Gellir, who could remember back a long time; and of ١rÝ­, daughter of Snorri the Chief, who was both greatly wise and steeped in tradition - when ═varr, son of Ragnar Shaggy-Breeches, ordered Eadmund the Saint, King of the Angles, to be killed.