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Frans_Jozef
Saturday, May 28th, 2005, 04:04 PM
Science reports (http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/308/5721/491b) on some exciting new findings from the 2005 Paleoanthropology meeting (http://www.paleoanthro.org/2005.htm):

Human relations. Sarah Tishkoff and Floyd Reed of the University of Maryland, College Park, presented preliminary analyses of a massive data set on genetic variation in humans around the world, particularly Africans. Samples from more than 3000 people, including 2000 Africans, were processed at 1275 loci by a genotyping powerhouse, the Marshfield Clinic Research Foundation in Wisconsin.

Tishkoff and Reed, who received the complete data set only 3 weeks ago, say it offers a powerful tool to uncover relationships among populations. For example, the data suggest that culturally distinct groups of Pygmies are more closely related to each other than to other Africans.

The researchers also detected unique similarities in the peoples of Oceania and East Africa, lending support to the hypothesis of an early "southern route" of migration out of Africa, around the coast of India to Oceania and then Australia. Finally, they found ancient kinship among three groups of click speakers, supporting the idea that the click languages form a single, ancient language family.

See also: http://www.life.umd.edu/biology/tishkofflab/research.htm[/font]

Dr. Solar Wolff
Saturday, May 28th, 2005, 11:42 PM
The "click" languages are so odd and so different from the other sounds people make that they could be what is left of something pre-sapiens and pre-modern language. If the pigmies form a disctince group within other Africans then their form and mechanism of cranial bending may have originated with them and spread to the Boskopoid peoples living in East, South and North Africa before the real Negros arrived. I think Anthropologists always assumed the extreme bending went the other way, having originated with the Boskopoids so this is something new.

morfrain_encilgar
Sunday, May 29th, 2005, 07:03 AM
The "click" languages are so odd and so different from the other sounds people make that they could be what is left of something pre-sapiens and pre-modern language.

Or they could be an early lineage of languages associated with Capoids.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Sunday, May 29th, 2005, 09:17 AM
Or they could be an early lineage of languages associated with Capoids.

Clicks have always been associated with Capoids and given their mtDNA diversity plus this funny language, people have theorized that they were the oldest sapiens people but this new infomation may indicate Pigmies are older. Some Bantu have adopted clicks. Perhaps Pigmies invented clicks--who knows.

morfrain_encilgar
Sunday, May 29th, 2005, 10:57 AM
Clicks have always been associated with Capoids and given their mtDNA diversity plus this funny language, people have theorized that they were the oldest sapiens people but this new infomation may indicate Pigmies are older.

Why do you think it suggests that to be true?


Some Bantu have adopted clicks. Perhaps Pigmies invented clicks--who knows.

Not just some Bantus adopted clicks in Africa, but pygmies dont use clicks.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, May 30th, 2005, 06:08 AM
Why do you think it suggests that to be true?




Not just some Bantus adopted clicks in Africa, but pygmies dont use clicks.

Gene flow goes from the pigmies to the Bantu and not vice versa. Bantu take Pigmy wives but Pigmies do not take Bantu wives. Therefore, it was assumed that sickel-cell, for instance, originated with Pigmies and flowed to Bantus even though it reaches a higher frequency in Bantus that Pigmies (due to slash and burn agriculture and the misquito breeding pools it leaves). If Pigmies are more seperate from other Africans in terms of mtDNA mutations, then they might be an older entity.

Pigmies do adopt Bantu languages. They must do this since the Bantu consider Pigmies inferior and almost slaves. They would never learn a Pigmy language. So, in order to trade, Bantu is used. So, for reasons of status and trade (and wife trade) it wouldn't be surprising if Bantu language replaced Pigmy in some instances.

morfrain_encilgar
Monday, May 30th, 2005, 09:32 AM
Pigmies do adopt Bantu languages. They must do this since the Bantu consider Pigmies inferior and almost slaves. They would never learn a Pigmy language. So, in order to trade, Bantu is used. So, for reasons of status and trade (and wife trade) it wouldn't be surprising if Bantu language replaced Pigmy in some instances.

They dont have a language family of their own.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, May 30th, 2005, 10:33 PM
They dont have a language family of their own.

But Pigmy language is not Bantu.

morfrain_encilgar
Monday, May 30th, 2005, 10:35 PM
But Pigmy language is not Bantu.

No, but pygmies dont have a language family today.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 07:43 AM
No, but pygmies dont have a language family today.

The further from biology we get, the worse I get, so please, tell us about Pigmy languages.

morfrain_encilgar
Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 09:41 AM
The further from biology we get, the worse I get, so please, tell us about Pigmy languages.

I think they all spean Bantu or at least Niger-Congo languages though with non-Bantu words.