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Saoirse
Friday, July 4th, 2003, 11:11 PM
A new mainstream book entitled "The Quest for the Original Horse Whisperers" claims that the KKK was a Scottish institution that was transplanted to the South by Celtic immigrants.
The author is Russ Lyon, a veterinary surgeon in Scotland, who traced the spread of the Klan structure from the farmlands of Buchan to the American South.

Lyon says that KKK has its roots in ancient Celtic ritual, which included the whispering of magic words into the ears of horses, and that it was later adopted by Masonic (Yes. Pike, Simmons ect) societies in Scotland, who Christianized it to make to appeal to a broader mass, and who then exported it to the South. Lyon tracks six men in particular who immigrated from Scotland during the Civil War, bringing the secrets of the Ku Klux Klan with them.

"It started as just another hellfire club and then it just got out of hand and led directly on to the Ku Klux Klan.", Lyon recently told the Scottish newspaper, the Scotsman.

The theory that the KKK has its roots in Scottish emigre culture, and that the Civil War, in some aspects, was a conflict between the most Celtic Southern population and the mostly Anglo-Saxon Northern population, has been denounced by groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center as "racist" and "white supremacist".

Grimr
Friday, July 4th, 2003, 11:27 PM
has been denounced by Southern Poverty Law Center as "racist" and "white supremacist".

These idiots say these things and yet they back groups with names like N.A.A.C.P? and black panthers what a bunch of hypocrites!


Lyon says that KKK has its roots in ancient Celtic ritual, which included the whispering of magic words into the ears of horses, and that it was later adopted by Masonic (Yes. Pike, Simmons ect) societies in Scotland, who Christianized it to make to appeal to a broader mass, and who then exported it to the South. Lyon tracks six men in particular who immigrated from Scotland during the Civil War, bringing the secrets of the Ku Klux Klan with them.

I know that the lighting of the cross is similar to the lighting of the moors the Celts used to do as a celebration, it seems very likely that the Klan has pagan roots.

Stríbog
Saturday, July 5th, 2003, 12:42 AM
The white robe and hood were derived from the costumes of Druid priests.

Saoirse
Saturday, July 5th, 2003, 01:05 AM
The Scots and Irish are the same tribe. So the Klan is Irish roots too.

Milesian
Saturday, July 5th, 2003, 02:33 AM
The Celtic druids very likely did not wear white robes.
What we think of as Celtic religion and druidism is mostly a modern invention. The idea of white robes goes back to the ancient Roman writers who wrote about Celtic practises. White is a symbol of purity and virginity and fits in well with Roman customs. Purity and the colour white had little meaning in Celtic culture which was centred very much on fertility. In fact black was the colour which symbolised the forces of good in Celtic culture (red was evil).
Wicca and other modern inventions which claim to re-construct Celtic religion are largely false. We do not know enough about Celtic religious practises to do so. I know that authentic Celtic religious practices such as human sacrifices would repulse most "New Age" practioners.

Stríbog
Saturday, July 5th, 2003, 02:38 AM
The human sacrifice stories were likely concocted by Julius Caesar as war propaganda during campaigns in Britain.

Milesian
Saturday, July 5th, 2003, 02:40 AM
I don't believe so, the "Wicker Man" is still practised in less "lethal" forms even today.

Milesian
Saturday, July 5th, 2003, 02:43 AM
Archaeologists have also discovered corpses from the Iron Age which show evidence of ritual sacrifice in Britain.

Stríbog
Saturday, July 5th, 2003, 02:43 AM
That's a damn fine movie. :tongeuy

Milesian
Saturday, July 5th, 2003, 02:49 AM
Whatever! :tongeuy

Saoirse
Sunday, July 6th, 2003, 01:14 PM
The word clan comes from Scottish Gaelic clann, family, from Old Irish cland.

The Klan is from Scot-Irish roots.

Vetinari
Thursday, November 20th, 2003, 07:32 PM
A new mainstream book entitled "The Quest for the Original Horse Whisperers" claims that the KKK was a Scottish institution that was transplanted to the South by Celtic immigrants.
The author is Russ Lyon, a veterinary surgeon in Scotland, who traced the spread of the Klan structure from the farmlands of Buchan to the American South.

Actually I think that Buchan is in the north-east of Scotland which was heavily settled by the Norwegian Vikings. Therefore the KKK's origins are more likely to be Norse than Celtic.

Vetinari
Thursday, November 20th, 2003, 07:35 PM
The Scots and Irish are the same tribe. So the Klan is Irish roots too.

Untrue. The Highland Scots show a great deal of Norwegian ancestry while the Lowland Scots show evidence of English ancestry.

Milesian
Thursday, November 20th, 2003, 10:37 PM
Untrue. The Highland Scots show a great deal of Norwegian ancestry while the Lowland Scots show evidence of English ancestry.

On what basis are you making that claim?
Recent genetic experiments have shown the English and Norwegian are much closer than eiether are to the Scottish

Stríbog
Friday, November 21st, 2003, 01:18 AM
On what basis are you making that claim?
Recent genetic experiments have shown the English and Norwegian are much closer than eiether are to the Scottish

That has to do with the selected population of Scots. The highland and coastal Scots do show significant amounts of Viking ancestry via HG2 and HG3. This is also why one sees many true Nordics in Scotland, far more than in Ireland. The Scots also killed off many of the Atlanto-Med Picts (under Kenneth MacAlpin), while the Irish mostly assimilated them.

Scáthach
Friday, November 21st, 2003, 01:58 AM
The Scots also killed off many of the Atlanto-Med Picts (under Kenneth MacAlpin), while the Irish mostly assimilated them.


Damnit, we should have murdered them while we had the chance!! Drat! Chances lost cannot be reclaimed!

;) :bounce

Vetinari
Friday, November 21st, 2003, 04:12 PM
On what basis are you making that claim?
Recent genetic experiments have shown the English and Norwegian are much closer than eiether are to the Scottish

Please read the following links:

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/articles/norse.htm

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/content_objectid=13502852_method=full_si teid=50082_headline=-Genetics-make-Welsh-distinct-name_page.html

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/capelli-CB-03.pdf

Milesian
Friday, November 21st, 2003, 05:36 PM
Please read the following links:

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/articles/norse.htm

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/content_objectid=13502852_method=full_si teid=50082_headline=-Genetics-make-Welsh-distinct-name_page.html

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/capelli-CB-03.pdf

Thanks for the links, unfortunately, the last one didn't work.
The first link claims to have possibly determined a common Norse ancestor for 3 Scottish clans, which isn't suprising. However, 3 inter-related Scottish clans do not comprise the majority of the population.

The second link bears witness to the genetic difference between Welsh English people, which was not what was being debated and with which I fully agree with.

Stribog is correct that around the Western Isles and the far northen islands such as Shetland, Norwegian genetic markers can be found in upto a max of 60% of the population
There is a minor Anglo-Saxon input in Scotland, particulary amongst the South-East. Again, I doubt it represents a predominance even in these localised areas.
In addition, I think areas in the Highlands which again show Norse (and by this it is actually a Norwegian marker, Danish markers are not found) are again costal areas. The interior being predominantly Celtic/Pict.

The major overall factor I believe is Celtic (Goidelic and Brythonic)with a significant Atlanto-Med input (from the previous Pict inhabitants), in addition there is significant localised Norse and Anglo input in some areas.

From my own experience, I see few "true Nordics" here.
There is certainly many people with Nordic influence, without question, but few who you could say are "pure". You would be hard pressed to mistake most of them for Scandinavians. The North East in my experience is like most of Scotland, predominantly Celtic although with a higher rate of Atlanto-Med (due to the Grampian region being one of the last great bastions of the Nothern Picts.

As for the KKK, I doubt there is much Norse influence, although they may have "borrowed" some things.
The KKK was very much influenced by Freemasonry (which first sprung up in it's modern guise in Scotland).


* Genetic studies based on "The Blood of the Vikings Study" at UCL

+Suomut+
Saturday, November 22nd, 2003, 05:05 AM
The original KKK organization initially started out as a fraternal org./social club among ex-Confederates from south-central Tennessee and evolved from that. The founding members were all Theologically Christian of the 'Protestant' variety. Ethnically (from what I know), all of these founders were either of 'Scotch-Irish' (meaning primarily, 'Ulstermen' of 'Orange' heritage) or English ancestry. By occupation during that post-war era, the principal founders were lawyers/attorneys; thus, it should be little surprise to anyone if more than one of these fellows had a 'masonic' background. Whatever pagan attributes existed in this 'original Klan' they were purely coincidental, and if said attibutes were not coincidental then surely they were not intended to be taken seriously (IMO). Arguably, the original org. wasn't intended to be serious (politically or socially), but that's what it became in the end: SERIOUS politically and socially in the American South.

Indeed, there surely would NEVER had been a 'KKK' in the Amer. South without Americans of Scottish background. One can NOT divorce the origins of the 'KKK' from Scots in America--divorcing the roots of the old 'KKK' from paganism is something more easily accomplished. Virtually no one in the modern U.S. associates the 'KKK' with paganism, but FAR MORE than one American associates it with 'Scottish ways.'

AKIUTB ;)

Krampus
Saturday, November 22nd, 2003, 07:09 AM
Stirbog-

That has to do with the selected population of Scots. The highland and coastal Scots do show significant amounts of Viking ancestry via HG2 and HG3. This is also why one sees many true Nordics in Scotland, far more than in Ireland. The Scots also killed off many of the Atlanto-Med Picts (under Kenneth MacAlpin), while the Irish mostly assimilated them.

Milesian-

The major overall factor I believe is Celtic (Goidelic and Brythonic)with a significant Atlanto-Med input (from the previous Pict inhabitants), in addition there is significant localised Norse and Anglo input in some areas.

Why are you both assuming Picts were of the Atlanto-Med sub race? All the descriptions I've heard from archeology digs, the Picts were a short people with round heads. Maybe my idea of Picts is outdated? I was under the assumption they never did anything more exciting than manufacter Pictish combs and build underground houses. It's speculated the existance of Picts is where the Leprechaun myth originated from. I came across this interesting website on Picts called "Pictish Nation" http://members.tripod.com/~Halfmoon/

Imperator X
Monday, March 28th, 2005, 06:33 PM
The origin of the name Ku Klux Klan comes from the Greek word kuklos meaning "circle". Perhaps it was used as the circle was the ancient symbol of Celtic paganism, notice for example the Celtic cross which incorporates the circle in its design. There was a text written for the Klan as a "holy book" later on, known as the Kloran. Quite a stupid choice for the name if you ask me seeing as they detest Muslims. In this Kloran they mention the Kuldees; the Old Celtic Orthodox church before the Irish conformed to Roman Catholicism so as not to be considered heretics. Also, initially the cross that was burned by the Klan was the St. Andrew's cross of Scotland.

Torn_Humana
Monday, March 28th, 2005, 06:42 PM
http://www.dadsnow.org/index2.html

http://www.kkklan.com/

Maybe these will help, quite a good read.

OFFICIAL KKK SITE?
http://www.kkk.bz/index1.htm

alphaknave
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 12:43 AM
Personally, I consider the KKK to be a childish, pitiful, and pointless group of southern hicks. Maybe thats too harsh, but I certainly don't declare myself as one of them, even if they do believe in White Pride, World Wide, as their "Offical" site proclaims.

Appalachian
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 01:35 AM
OFFICIAL KKK SITE?



Well, it's the official site of the Knights Party, anyway.


Personally, I consider the KKK to be a childish, pitiful, and pointless group of southern hicks.

Yet you revere some dork who killed some other dork for no apparent reason and is now wasting his life and musical talents away in a jail cell. Talk about "childish, pitiful, and pointless..."

Anyway, what exactly do you find "childish, pitiful, and pointless" about the Klan?

alphaknave
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 01:54 AM
Yet you revere some dork who killed some other dork for no apparent reason and is now wasting his life and musical talents away in a jail cell. Talk about "childish, pitiful, and pointless..."

Anyway, what exactly do you find "childish, pitiful, and pointless" about the Klan?
So what if he is in jail? People in jail also have the time to think about such matters as he does without outside interference. Even if you think he killed for "no apparent reason," that was one point in his life. I think people have the right to change don't they? Musical talent in not important, even though it is wonderful. Ask any random person on the street "What is Burzum?" and they will say "Who?"

The Klan's attempts to obtain a white nation include burning things, killing Negros, and having occasional rallies. These actions can be compared to Varg's "crimes" almost directly, in which neither I "revere". I revere Varg for his insightful ideas an opinions. He is very focused and fitting of the name "wolf".

Appalachian
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 02:08 AM
So what if he is in jail? People in jail also have the time to think about such matters as he does without outside interference.

Yupp. He's got a long time to think about it. Is it going to be even longer due to his recent carjacking escapades?


The Klan's attempts to obtain a white nation include burning things, killing Negros, and having occasional rallies.

And what is the source of your knowledge of the Klan? Hollywood?

What do you mean "obtain a white nation?" In the Klan's heyday, America was a White nation, and the Klan rose up to defend her.

I realize asking today's youth to read a book might be a bit of a stretch, so I'll suggest a movie. You should really pick up a copy of The Birth of a Nation (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0004972/) (I see you can get a used DVD from amazon.com for about five bucks) before you deride the Klan as childish and cast further aspersions on the already downtrodden Southron people.

BTW, the Confederate forum is probably the wrong place to talk about "southern hicks."

alphaknave
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 04:07 AM
Yupp. He's got a long time to think about it. Is it going to be even longer due to his recent carjacking escapades?



And what is the source of your knowledge of the Klan? Hollywood?

What do you mean "obtain a white nation?" In the Klan's heyday, America was a White nation, and the Klan rose up to defend her.

I realize asking today's youth to read a book might be a bit of a stretch, so I'll suggest a movie. You should really pick up a copy of The Birth of a Nation (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0004972/) (I see you can get a used DVD from amazon.com for about five bucks) before you deride the Klan as childish and cast further aspersions on the already downtrodden Southron people.

BTW, the Confederate forum is probably the wrong place to talk about "southern hicks." Ok, my apologies. I will learn more on this subject before commenting anymore.

Unless this is included in this video you speak of, could you name one or two successful attempts that the KKK has done to make US white again?

BTW, I am not too happy that the user comment on the site that is displayed is against "Confederate-sympathizers who defend this tripe". Sounds like they are trying to down-play it. Well that is to be expected...

Gorm the Old
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 04:18 AM
So what if he is in jail? People in jail also have the time to think about such matters as he does without outside interference. Even if you think he killed for "no apparent reason," that was one point in his life. I think people have the right to change don't they? Musical talent in not important, even though it is wonderful. Ask any random person on the street "What is Burzum?" and they will say "Who?"

The Klan's attempts to obtain a white nation include burning things, killing Negros, and having occasional rallies. These actions can be compared to Varg's "crimes" almost directly, in which neither I "revere". I revere Varg for his insightful ideas an opinions. He is very focused and fitting of the name "wolf".
What has Mordor got to do with the origins of the Klan ? "Burzum", of course, means "darkness" in the Black Speech of Mordor, as in the last line of the Ring inscription: "Ash Nazg thrakatuluk, agh Burzum ishi krimpatul." The root of the word, "....burz" is retained in the Orcish name for Mordor, "Lugburz" probably meaning "dark place." But, what has this to do with the Klan ?

alphaknave
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 04:21 AM
What has Mordor got to do with the origins of the Klan ? "Burzum", of course, means "darkness" in the Black Speech of Mordor, as in the last line of the Ring inscription: "Ash Nazg thrakatuluk, agh Burzum ishi krimpatul." The root of the word, "....burz" is retained in the Orcish name for Mordor, "Lugburz" probably meaning "dark place." But, what has this to do with the Klan ? It was Appalachian's attempt at angering me because he found my post offensive to what he believes in, which was not its purpose.

I was using "What is Burzum?" as an example that most people really don't know that the music project existed. I wasn't asking where the names comes from. (Oh course I know that, I "rever" Varg remember? Thanks for your explanation though).

Appalachian, as I will educate myself about the Klan, please do the same with Varg. Don't take a close-minded stance based news reports about him. If possible, take time to read Vargsmel (http://www.vinlandwinds.com/graveland/vargsmel.htm), as I have.

green nationalist
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 12:37 PM
Well, it's the official site of the Knights Party, anyway.


The Knights party claim to be the tru Klan

What is the point of the Klan in this day and age? To spread Christian values and secure a safe white america?

In what way does it achieve this?

Is the Klan not counterproductive in its efforts oweing to its bad image of lynchings and cross burnings?

Appalachian
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 01:48 PM
It was Appalachian's attempt at angering me because he found my post offensive to what he believes in, which was not its purpose.

I wasn't attempting to anger you; I was just attempting to show that it's kind of silly to refer to the Klan as "childish, pitiful, and pointless" all while holding Kristian (aka. Varg) Vikernes up as a hero.


Appalachian, as I will educate myself about the Klan, please do the same with Varg. Don't take a close-minded stance based news reports about him. If possible, take time to read Vargsmel (http://www.vinlandwinds.com/graveland/vargsmel.htm), as I have.

I've read Vargsmål. I've read Moynihan's book, too. Who knows? Perhaps Vikernes could have been something great if he didn't continually act in such a "childish, pitiful, and pointless" manner.


Unless this is included in this video you speak of, could you name one or two successful attempts that the KKK has done to make US white again?

Perhaps someone who is personally involved in the Klan can speak in regards to their recent efforts. Historically, I believe their most important function has been to serve as a posse comitatus exacting justice and defending the populace in the face of government's inactivity or downright oppression. They have served to obtain justice for the common man and defend the honor of our women. Of course, it is for this very reason that they are slandered.


BTW, I am not too happy that the user comment on the site that is displayed is against "Confederate-sympathizers who defend this tripe". Sounds like they are trying to down-play it. Well that is to be expected...

IMDB is full of the politically correct, and their moderators make sure to toe the party line.

Appalachian
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 01:54 PM
The Knights party claim to be the tru Klan From where I sit, it looks like just about every splinter faction claims to be the true Klan.


Is the Klan not counterproductive in its efforts oweing to its bad image of lynchings and cross burnings? Unfortunately, perhaps this is true, but if it is, it is only due to the fact that our people have been so weakened and become so dependent on suckling at the teats of government that they have forgotten that we have always had to make our own justice (commonly called lynchings -- and while they are propagandized as being pointless acts of violence, in reality they have usually been well-reasoned exactions of justice for rape, murder, robbery, etc. and the only thing certain population groups seem to understand [after all, it is clear that the current slap-on-the-wrist system isn't doing anything to deter Black-on-White crime]).

As for the lighting of the cross, how sad that we are no longer 'allowed' to display symbols of our communal unity in the face of invasion, and even those who should understand this criticize it.

I guess the question to ask now is this: In the context of the American heartland, is the Klan any more counterproductive than people who dress up in viking costumes and corpsepaint, prattle on about paganism, and talk openly about purging Christianity from our lands? I daresay not. The Klan, after all, has deep historical roots in this country and represents a unique expression of our national character. After all, there is nothing our current overlords fear more than an awakened, 'semitically-aware' Christianity which preaches the doctrine of Christ the Tiger (http://home.ddc.net/ygg/rj/rj-18.htm), which is precisely what the Klan represents.

alphaknave
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 04:54 PM
I guess the question to ask now is this: In the context of the American heartland, is the Klan any more counterproductive than people who dress up in viking costumes and corpsepaint, prattle on about paganism, and talk openly about purging Christianity from our lands? I daresay not. The Klan, after all, has deep historical roots in this country and represents a unique expression of our national character. After all, there is nothing our current overlords fear more than an awakened, 'semitically-aware' Christianity which preaches the doctrine of Christ the Tiger (http://home.ddc.net/ygg/rj/rj-18.htm), which is precisely what the Klan represents. I think we need to act like normal people, or at least dress like normal people, for the time being. Skinheads, grow your hair. KKK, no more white hoods. NSBM members, no more corpse paint, Viking costumes, ect. People automatically identify these things with something they should oppose because the government and news tells them so. We should form more organizations like Skadi, which have no affiliation (that I know of) with any of the opposed White Pride groups and people can feel more comfortable to join and educate themselves.


After all, there is nothing our current overlords fear more than an awakened, 'semitically-aware' Christianity which preaches the doctrine of Christ the Tiger (http://home.ddc.net/ygg/rj/rj-18.htm), which is precisely what the Klan represents.
This is a reason in which I don't like the KKK. I know there are a lot Christians on this forum, but I despise Christianity. I formed this opinion based on personal experience and discovery, not because Varg told me so, so please don't throw that at me. I just don't understand how a White power group can believe fully in Christianity. Do they not teach everyone is equal and that we are all made in "God's" image? Of course they do, I would know since I spend and hour and a half every day learning about the religion I hate at my Catholic school...

Appalachian
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 06:16 PM
This is a reason in which I don't like the KKK. I know there are a lot Christians on this forum, but I despise Christianity. I formed this opinion based on personal experience and discovery, not because Varg told me so, so please don't throw that at me. I just don't understand how a White power group can believe fully in Christianity. Do they not teach everyone is equal and that we are all made in "God's" image? Of course they do, I would know since I spend and hour and a half every day learning about the religion I hate at my Catholic school...

Did you even bother to read Christ the Tiger (http://home.ddc.net/ygg/rj/rj-18.htm)? If not, I suggest you do so, as it specifically addresses the concerns you just raised.

Perhaps you can ask about Matthew 23 and John 8:31-59 in your theology class.

alphaknave
Wednesday, March 30th, 2005, 10:41 PM
Did you even bother to read Christ the Tiger (http://home.ddc.net/ygg/rj/rj-18.htm)? If not, I suggest you do so, as it specifically addresses the concerns you just raised.

Perhaps you can ask about Matthew 23 and John 8:31-59 in your theology class. "Christ the Tiger" shows nothing else than Christ's repetitive rants against the Pharisees of his time. He tells us to reject these hypocrites and to not follow their action.

It does not address the matter of how Christians preach everyone is equal (White vs. Black) and we should have equal respect for others. This is only one example out of thousands. Give me sufficient time and I will create a list of illogical Catholic teachings.

If I were to bring up the subject of Matthew 23 and John 8:31-59, I would get an explanation close to saying that in Jesus' time he did not agree with what the Pharisees were doing, and said so in his speeches. If I am missing something deep and complicated, please tell me so.

green nationalist
Thursday, March 31st, 2005, 12:02 AM
From where I sit, it looks like just about every splinter faction claims to be the true Klan.

So who is the true Klan? Is there such a group? Can anyone form a Klan, hold a cross burning ceremony and declare themselves the KKK?

What attributes must a group have to declare themselves the KKK?

Appalachian
Thursday, March 31st, 2005, 06:05 AM
If I were to bring up the subject of Matthew 23 and John 8:31-59, I would get an explanation close to saying that in Jesus' time he did not agree with what the Pharisees were doing, and said so in his speeches. If I am missing something deep and complicated, please tell me so.

You seem to be missing something very deep here. Firstly, as Yggdrasil points out in Christ the Tiger, all modern Jews are essentially Pharisees, in that their highest obedience is to the law of the Talmud (for that matter, so are their lackies, such as the neocons). Thus, the same criticisms that Christ made of the Pharisees apply to modern Jewry, and indeed if Christ were here today he would no doubt say the same thing.

Secondly, perhaps you overlooked the fact that in John 8:31-59 Jesus tells "the Jews" that they are "not of God," that they are the sons of the devil, that they do the work of their father the devil, and that they are liars, murderers, and thieves. This is a damning indictment, and it's fun to watch judeophile preachers squirm and vacillate when you call them on it.

Look, don't get me wrong. I'm hardly a Christian myself (more like a Deist with Anthroposophical leanings), but I understand a few things about Christianity and its place in our nation:

Firstly, there is nothing that Jews hate and fear more than the thought of 'semitically-aware' Christians.

Secondly, the only thing Jews hate almost as much as a 'semitically-aware' Christian is any other variety of Christian.

Thirdly, outside of America's grossly multicultural urban centers, the heartland is overwhelmingly Christian. What good will it do to attack these people and their religion? It will only serve to drive them into the waiting arms of those who would perpetuate the lie that this country has a "Judeo-Christian" background (or that "Judeo-Christianity" is even a valid concept at all, which we can see is obviously false based on the very words of Christ himself).

Fourthly, nine times out of ten, whenever there's any sort of attack on Christianity or Christian traditions there's a Jew behind it. We can see this, for example, in Michael Newdow's recent suit to have the words "under God" removed from the pledge of allegiance and the suit brought on by the overwhelmingly Jewish ACLU on behalf of a group of Jews who wanted a statue of the ten commandments removed from a courthouse in Alabama (an act which polls showed less than 20% of America supported).

So the questions I ask then are these:

Why should I do the Jews' work? Why should I attack what the Jew fears the most?

Appalachian
Thursday, March 31st, 2005, 06:12 AM
So who is the true Klan?

Good question.


Is there such a group? Can anyone form a Klan, hold a cross burning ceremony and declare themselves the KKK?

I would think some historical continuity would be a prerequisite, but I'm no expert on the Klan, so I couldn't tell you. It seems that the Klan has split off into various branches, just as Freemasonry has split off into various "recognized" and "clandestine" lodges. Is any one of them the "true Klan" or "true Masonry?" I don't know. I'm not sure there's an easy answer to that.

alphaknave
Thursday, March 31st, 2005, 06:33 AM
You seem to be missing something very deep here. Firstly, as Yggdrasil points out in Christ the Tiger, all modern Jews are essentially Pharisees, in that their highest obedience is to the law of the Talmud (for that matter, so are their lackies, such as the neocons). Thus, the same criticisms that Christ made of the Pharisees apply to modern Jewry, and indeed if Christ were here today he would no doubt say the same thing.

Secondly, perhaps you overlooked the fact that in John 8:31-59 Jesus tells "the Jews" that they are "not of God," that they are the sons of the devil, that they do the work of their father the devil, and that they are liars, murderers, and thieves. This is a damning indictment, and it's fun to watch judeophile preachers squirm and vacillate when you call them on it.

Look, don't get me wrong. I'm hardly a Christian myself (more like a Deist with Anthroposophical leanings), but I understand a few things about Christianity and its place in our nation:

Firstly, there is nothing that Jews hate and fear more than the thought of 'semitically-aware' Christians.

Secondly, the only thing Jews hate almost as much as a 'semitically-aware' Christian is any other variety of Christian.

Thirdly, outside of America's grossly multicultural urban centers, the heartland is overwhelmingly Christian. What good will it do to attack these people and their religion? It will only serve to drive them into the waiting arms of those who would perpetuate the lie that this country has a "Judeo-Christian" background (or that "Judeo-Christianity" is even a valid concept at all, which we can see is obviously false based on the very words of Christ himself).

Fourthly, nine times out of ten, whenever there's any sort of attack on Christianity or Christian traditions there's a Jew behind it. We can see this, for example, in Michael Newdow's recent suit to have the words "under God" removed from the pledge of allegiance and the suit brought on by the overwhelmingly Jewish ACLU on behalf of a group of Jews who wanted a statue of the ten commandments removed from courthouse in Alabama (an act which polls showed less than 20% of America supported).

So the questions I ask then are these:

Why should I do the Jews' work? Why should I attack what the Jew fears the most? I was not aware fully that the Jews feared Christianity, as I always thought (obviously, not fully looked into) that Christianity came from the Jewish faith. Religious people have stated to me that since Jesus was a Jew, we should accept Jews. I have always thought (and have been taught by Christians) that the Old Testament of the Bible is Jewish in origin. I found it wrong that people that rightfully shouldn't even follow Christianity because, one, it had Jewish origin, and two, it is not traditional European belief, as "Paganism" is.

I understand where you come from when you say that as most whites are Christian, they should continue their strong faith, which also is feared by the Jewish. I can accept Christianity as a symbolic feature of the White Man and his accomplishments, but I certainly don't believe any of it, nor do I think it helps one to believe it. I find it to show weakness in a person, as it allows the person to lean on the idea that they will go to a material "heaven" if they are good on Earth.

With this said, I use "Paganism" as a symbolic and cultural way of life, not a direct belief in "Gods". I am mostly Agnostic because I believe that the Universe and corresponding entities or other Universes are too complex for the human to begin to understand. They may follow physical (if such a thing exists) limitations so completly different to ours that no one could ever comprehend them. Because of this, there is no way for us to know if a "God" or "Gods" exist.

Religion does strengthen a person because they get a sense of hope. But, I don't like this use anywhere past the individual or small community. Too much power is located in so-called "spritual" peoples (Ex. the Pope).

You have succeeded in stopping me from trying to openly rid something of Christianity, but if someone trys to get me to participate in any such related service, I will still get outwardly offended and hostile (as has happened at my school).

One aspect of Christianity, though, is that I've seen it used to force "equality of race" type views on partial believers. I don't like this at all.

Fraxinus Excelsior
Thursday, March 31st, 2005, 06:55 AM
I have never met an intelligent Klansman who was still a Klan member.