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mav0ric
Friday, June 20th, 2003, 10:43 PM
Question is simple.
Do you consider Penelope Cruz (the actress) to be White? White enough to breed with her would be the dividing line I suppose.

http://www.ilnuovo.it/nuovo/images/211/cruz-penelope-2_165x200.jpg

Sigrun Christianson
Friday, June 20th, 2003, 10:46 PM
Nopes.

mav0ric
Friday, June 20th, 2003, 11:23 PM
She is NOT White to my eyes. Very middle eastern to me. Iraqi, Iranian, Afgahni. Somewhere along those lines is what I see. Put her in the traditional covered up shawl of the middle east and she fits right in.

Stríbog
Friday, June 20th, 2003, 11:27 PM
There are unmongrelized Mediterraneans still around in the Middle East, you know.... :rolleyes: Of course she would resemble them. She does not, however, look like Zacharias Moussawi. :P

mav0ric
Friday, June 20th, 2003, 11:35 PM
Ok so I am guessing your vote would be - White enough to breed with her?
Halle Berry and Mariah Carey are not as black as Whoopie Goldberg but that does not make them White.

Stríbog
Friday, June 20th, 2003, 11:47 PM
I wouldn't breed with her, regardless, because I choose partners based on similarity to my own subtype. I don't view "White" as a monolithic racial entity anyway; I view the overall race as Caucasoid, with many different subraces. Among these subraces, there are many who are 'white' by the popular definition and some who are not. Unmixed Mediterraneans have generally been regarded as white, but there has always been a minority disputing this, I believe.

mav0ric
Saturday, June 21st, 2003, 12:34 AM
Oh I agree she is Caucasoid as I only see there being 3 categories to place people into.

Caucasoid
Negroid
Mongoloid

Just because one is Caucasoid does not make them White though as most jews are Caucasoid.

Jkl
Saturday, June 21st, 2003, 12:34 AM
She is no different than Catherine Zeta Jones or the Corrs sisters or many Welsh or Irish. If you don´t consider her white you shouldn´t consider white many Irish and Welsh either.


http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=24185

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=29496

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=24186

mav0ric
Saturday, June 21st, 2003, 12:45 AM
I am Irish although I now live in Canada. I spent many years there before settling here. I am well aquainted with the look of an Irish lass. There is no comparisson between any members of the Corrs and Cruz that I see. One group is White and Cruz is not. My opinion of course.

So far on the poll here, There is no differing opinion from my own. I at least expected you to vote.

**When looking at the 3 pictures you posted in this thread - you really do not see the differance between her and the others?**

Conquistador
Saturday, June 21st, 2003, 01:33 AM
I don't consider her white. She reminds me of a gypsy and not of a Spanish woman. If anyone has doubts about my response, well...doubt away.

Azdaja
Saturday, June 21st, 2003, 01:39 AM
I have not seen any of her movies, and am only basing my opinion on the pictures posted in this thread, and in the "Cruise and Cruz" thread.

She does not look fully Europid.

Evolved
Saturday, June 21st, 2003, 05:43 AM
Black hair, black eyes, naturally brownish skin. And look at this gallery, many younger pictures of her- she lost some weight, had a nose job and started plucking her eyebrows.. :eek:

http://www.unmistakables.com/cruz/gallery/thumbs/gallery.shtml

Old nose:
http://www.unmistakables.com/cruz/gallery/photo05.shtml

New nose:
http://www.unmistakables.com/cruz/gallery/photo09.shtml

See what I mean? :)

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Saturday, June 21st, 2003, 10:13 AM
I think she is white. Perhaps the reason that she could fit in appearance wise with some Middle-Easterns is that they have Med features, rather than her having non-Europid features? HMMM?? Ever seen Freddie Mercury? LOL I dont see what looks non-white about her at all.

Ederico
Saturday, June 21st, 2003, 10:23 AM
If I saw her in the streets I would probably think she is white. And according to Thorburn she is a Mediterranid of Iberid type (whatever that means lol), so I guess she is Europid. Do not expect Mediterranids to be as fair-skinned as other Europids. Where does Penolope Cruz live? The sun could produce a tan and if she lives in Spain that is quite probable. Trust me I have seen brown Germanics going around in summers here.

Triglav
Saturday, June 21st, 2003, 06:54 PM
White has become a very vague term in certain circles. Everyone seems to have his own concept of white. There was a thread on this board in which some argued that whites are those with the inability to tan.

The term has acquired a connotation of racial inclusion, much like the narrower term Nordish. The started of this thread presupposed one of these standards.

P. Cruz herself is indubitably Caucasian.

Jkl
Saturday, June 21st, 2003, 10:19 PM
Well, after seen other pictures of her I agree that she has a special look (I´ve always said it) that makes me think that she could have some non-white ancestor (a gipsy probably; her family comes from Andalucia and the presence of gipsies is huge there so I wouldn´t be surprised about her having a gipsy ancestor). I´ve put this thread because in the picture I uploaded of her with Tom Cruise she looked completely white to me.

But I don´t like double standards, so if people think she has a Middle Eastern look they would also do the same to other Europeans that also have a Middle Eastern look:

Ringo Starr is an example of it (his look, at least in this picture, is not much different from many Irakies or Afghans):

In the same picture, the french Jean Pierre Raffarin (PM of France).
Do you consider them white?

Scáthach
Sunday, June 22nd, 2003, 01:21 AM
ringo is lovely,well was may be more accurate.i would have had no problems with breeding with him x_love

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Sunday, June 22nd, 2003, 01:25 AM
I don't think anyone was being pompous. Can't we all just get along? :puppyeyes

LOL@Scathach your Ringo crush is so cute! Did you watch Shining Time Station as a child? hehe

Scáthach
Sunday, June 22nd, 2003, 01:34 AM
dont you think he's cute? those big puppy dog eyes and floppy hair,im so in loooovvvveee! x_love

Stríbog
Sunday, June 22nd, 2003, 01:37 AM
I watched Shining Time Station!!! x_hehe
I liked Percy and the Scottish twins. What were their names? Douglas and Donald?

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Sunday, June 22nd, 2003, 01:44 AM
yeah, I'd have to say he was the cutest Beatle by far hehe.



Question: How much "non-white" mixture must someone have to be considered non-white? Well, this has been discussed before, but is there any real way of "measuring"? You can't just simply say something like "1/8", IMO. For example, two different individuals could have roughly the "same amount" of "non-white", but it may show up in one more than the other; one individual could be believed to be completely Europid (until that aspect of their ancestry is discovered) while the other not. And does one little "strain" of non-Europid "cancel out" the Europid features, automatically making someone "non-white"? An example of this is Jews who look white, even Nordish, but because they are a Jew they are automatically "non-white", even though their overall appearance seems otherwise. How do we know? *shrugs* I think all those questions would receive quite the variety of answers between all of us on PE.

My overall point is, sometimes we need to use personal opinions and feelings, instincts, etc., (within reason) to define for ourselves who we consider "white", because it can be so complicated. Everyone has a place where they "draw the line", so to speak, and there is no reason why this "white line" would not differ among individuals! :)

Evolved
Sunday, June 22nd, 2003, 01:52 AM
I think Penelope should stick with her fellow southern Meds. :)

There are thousands of women more naturally beautiful than she is, and it took a lot of effort to make her look that way. In those pictures I found she looked pretty average, really. x_zzz

joseanton
Saturday, March 4th, 2006, 05:08 PM
I think, she´s white, caucasoid (mediterrnid), and if she looks like many poeple of the middle east, is because there are caucasoids there.

For me, the word caucasoid, meaning one of the three human categories, and white is in relation of the skin´s color (almost all the times about the caucasoids), she is white but not in the nordish way.

The Black Prince
Saturday, March 4th, 2006, 09:26 PM
http://eur.yimg.com/i/xp/premier_photo/d/ddb47a8835.jpg


Question is simple.
Do you consider Penelope Cruz (the actress) to be White? White enough to breed with her would be the dividing line I suppose.

http://www.ilnuovo.it/nuovo/images/211/cruz-penelope-2_165x200.jpg

I consider her Europid, but she wouldn't be seen as White (in the narrow sense = Northern or Central European) by most Dutchmen I think.


to breed with her

Well a little playing around isn't gonna hurt anyone (wouldn't call it breeding though, there are nicer words to describe the art of 'making love'). :D

Leofric
Saturday, March 4th, 2006, 09:32 PM
I consider her Europid, but she wouldn't be seen as White (in the narrow sense = Northern or Central European) by most Dutchmen I think.


to breed with her
Well a little playing around isn't gonna hurt anyone (wouldn't call it breeding though, there are nicer words to describe the art of 'making love'). :D
I understand your feelings. She is quite pretty. But the question isn't about whether it's nice to call making love breeding but whether you would want to reproduce with her. It's not about the action we do, but its effects others suffer.

I for one, would not want my children to look like her. With that as the dividing line, she is not White in my eyes.

The Black Prince
Saturday, March 4th, 2006, 09:48 PM
I understand your feelings. She is quite pretty. But the question isn't about whether it's nice to call making love breeding but whether you would want to reproduce with her. It's not about the action we do, but its effects others suffer.
I was just kidding..:D

And about the question of reproduction (just staying clinical) it depends on the situation, I judge women on more traits than race and beauty alone.

Galaico
Saturday, March 4th, 2006, 11:03 PM
I think there's something non-white in her, it's not her tanned skin or her eye colour, but her facial features.

BTW, Cruz is a "New Christian" (Converted Jew) surname.

Thruthheim
Saturday, March 4th, 2006, 11:22 PM
She is no different than Catherine Zeta Jones or the Corrs sisters or many Welsh or Irish. If you don´t consider her white you shouldn´t consider white many Irish and Welsh either.


http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=24185

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=29496

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=24186

She's totally different to CZJ and the Corrs sisters.
Totally.

People, namely Diablo Blanco types, always like to claim Nord-atlantid types are the same as them. That's a lie. Only common ground is maybe hair colour and possibly eye.

Andrea Corr and Zeta Jones have rather light skin.

Frans_Jozef
Saturday, March 4th, 2006, 11:48 PM
For the record, a man begets children with a woman; one doesn't reproduce offspring with a woman one doesn't mate, breed and rear with a woman.

People are no cattle.

Leofric
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 12:27 AM
For the record, a man begets children with a woman; one doesn't reproduce offspring with a woman one doesn't mate, breed and rear with a woman.

People are no cattle.
I appreciate your desire to show respect for human life and sexuality, but twisting the English language is not the way to do it.

From the OED:

beget: trans. to procreate, to generate: usually said of the father, but sometimes of both parents.
breed: absol. of animal species: to produce brood or young; to have offspring; to propagate their species [and in case you wonder whether they include us in the kingdom Animalia, see this example quotation] "Mankind will in every country breed up to a certain point of distress."
generate: trans. to beget, procreate, engender (offspring); absol. to produce offspring.
mate: absol. to enter into marriage or (usually in later use) a sexual relationship with someone.
rear: trans. To bring up (a person), to foster, nourish, educate.
reproduce: trans. to generate (new individuals); absol. to multiply by generation
In English, humans can breed just as well as any other animal; reproduce is the same as beget (except that it can also apply to women);and mate and rear are used primarily for human relationships. Perhaps some cognate with breed has bestial connotations in other Germanic languages, but in English, the word is perfectly fit for humans, as any Englishman of good breeding could tell you. ;)

Frans_Jozef
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 04:35 PM
It's always a pleasure to learn more about the intricacies of the English language and I am also pretty confident that the English of good breeding collected in boarding-schools always knew how to savour the indescribable delectations of their mate's rear....:P

Leofric
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 05:25 PM
It's always a pleasure to learn more about the intricacies of the English language and I am also pretty confident that the English of good breeding collected in boarding-schools always knew how to savour the indescribable delectations of their mate's rear....:P
:lmfao:
Well, though you are quite right, since I do not particpate in the Adult Forum, I'll just have to maintain silence on that matter here at Skadi!:hush

Loki
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 05:27 PM
That probably raises the question if humans are considered distinct from animals. I personally don't think they are. Humans are animals IMO... regardless of their superior intellect in comparison with other species. Our closest relatives are chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas. They are animals, and so are we. Having said that I understand that for religious reasons, people choose not to view it like this.

Theudiskaz
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 05:35 PM
Is she part jewish for certain? If she is, then she's not white. Anyone who is part jewish is never white in my book.

Loki
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 05:47 PM
Is she part jewish for certain? If she is, then she's not white. Anyone who is part jewish is never white in my book.

That depends if you mean "Jewish" as in Middle Eastern racial descent, or "Jewish" as in religiously. One needs to be able to distinguish between race and religion. The terms cannot be used interchangeably. I am aware of the fact that there is such a thing as an ethnic Jew. But even ethnicity and race doesn't always correspond. There have been converts to Judaism as well.

Theudiskaz
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 06:23 PM
Well, I don't know any converts to Judaism. I'm sure there have been some. But it almost always happens the other way around. So practically speaking Jews are a religion and a race.

So yes, does she have ethnically jewish ancestry?

Jäger
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 06:27 PM
That depends if you mean "Jewish" as in Middle Eastern racial descent, or "Jewish" as in religiously. One needs to be able to distinguish between race and religion. The terms cannot be used interchangeably. I am aware of the fact that there is such a thing as an ethnic Jew. But even ethnicity and race doesn't always correspond. There have been converts to Judaism as well. Indeed, e.g. Bärbel Schäfer (german TV moderator) is jewish
http://www.liebersicher.de/schutz_durch_engel/vip/_bilder/b_schaefer_kl.jpg

... since a few years, she converted to marry her boyfriend Michelle Friedman

Oswiu
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 06:42 PM
Converts to Judaism are only ethnically nonJewish for one generation, surely? Their children are then going to be the product of a mixed marriage within the 'religious' community of Judaism, no?

About Penelope, who knows? You'd have to have some hard facts about her genealogy to determine if she were a true Iberian [which she might just be, there's a heck of a lot of individual variation in phenotype possible, and here plastic surgery seems to confuse matters]. I doubt anybody here has that sort of information, so it's a moot point. THe best we can get is the comments some people have made about the historical demographics of her surname and region of origin, but even they leave some room for doubt.

And I doubt again that any of us will ever be in the situation of having to decide whether or not to sleep with her, either!

Loki
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 06:43 PM
Madonna is also a converted Jew.

Oswiu
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 08:29 PM
This poll could've done with a "Don't Know" option, as I truly don't, and yet gave the poor lass the benefit of the doubt just in order to see how others had voted...

Theudiskaz
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 09:49 PM
second that, oswy
It is a real travesty that someone who is as nordic as Baerbel Schaefer has to squander her good D.N.A. with a jew husband. Then again she could be eliminating from our gene pool the genes that code for a desire to miscegenate. Unrealistic, but am trying to see this abomination in a positive light.

Thruthheim
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 10:28 PM
This poll could've done with a "Don't Know" option, as I truly don't, and yet gave the poor lass the benefit of the doubt just in order to see how others had voted...

I agree.. i would have voted for Unsure.

Either way, IMHO, it wouldn't be healthy Multiplying with her if you are Nordid. ;)

Blood_Axis
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 12:38 AM
I was rather surprised when I saw this poll....to me, there was never a question: I always considered her as Latina.

I don't see what could classify her, racially or culturally as Europid :shrug

Loki
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 06:21 AM
I was rather surprised when I saw this poll....to me, there was never a question: I always considered her as Latina.

I don't see what could classify her, racially or culturally as Europid :shrug

She probably falls into the same category as J-LO, whatever she might be.

Leofric
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 06:45 AM
Penelope Cruz is a Spaniard from Madrid. I don't know whether she has any Jewish ancestry.

Jennifer Lopez is a Puerto Rican from the Bronx. I don't know how much of her ancestry is European, if any (I assume there's some).

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 07:08 AM
I can't believe we are having this conversation. Penelope Cruz is White. She may be Med. but still White. If not, what is she???

Also, it is hard for me to believe those who say they "wouldn't reproduce with her" or whatever words they used. Men are horn-dogs. I want a list of those who swear they would never have sex with her.

Madonna is Negro by injection. If the Brits or the Jews want her now, they are welcome to her---hell, everyone else has been welcome.

Marco Bianchi
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 08:16 AM
Asolutely not white.

Weg
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 02:36 PM
First, culturally there's no doubt : she's Spaniard by blood, born and heritage. Also I find curious that she was said to be a "Latina".
Is she even really of jewish ("marrana") or gypsie ancestry as some like to claim?... That sounds pretty ridiculous to me. Who can tell solely based on a lastname, anyhow?... Give me solid evidences, bring the truth of such allegations. Her look? I said evidences,not biased opinions.

Second, racially, Europid she's, since she's Mediterranid; and given that, so far, the Mediterranid type is considered as being autochtonous to Europe, she's Europid. That should be clear by now.

Now, is she "white"? That's being really too much subjective. However, I agree with Dr. Solar Wolff, I consider her "white". She's a quite attractive European woman, has a quite distinctive look, but still she fits well in the Mediterranid range. Yes, she's "white" in my book. (But once again, what does "white" really means?... :D)

Last, when even some Spaniards and Italians classify her as being "non-white", you can question the validity of such claims... I don't want to sound harsh, but if Penelope Cruz is not white, then you guys (Spaniards, Italians, Greeks, etc.) are not "white" either. That type is indeed not that rare in the Iberian peninsula afterall, and some Italians/Greeks can look dark as hell, as well. And as a Spaniard comrade told me once, on another forum : "You shouldn't throw stones if you live in glass house".

Galaico
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 03:25 PM
Well, I'm not throwing stones in my own glass house, but although the huge majority of Spaniards are fully Europid, I know some you would seriously doubt about their full Europid origin.

Alkman
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 06:41 PM
As far as i know Penelope Cruz would fit to the term "White" even in the Anglo-Saxon sense, which is more strict than the South European standards.

I'm very surprised that there's a thread doubting her "whiteness".

Agrippa
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 07:02 PM
If "white" = Europid, then she is white, if it would be European Europid racially, then she is white, if it would be European by heritage, both racial and cultural, then she is white; but if its about being Northern Europid by racial type, than she's not, because she is pred. West-/Gracilmediterranid.

To me "white" is largely the same as Europid which is usually considered being the name in the European terminologies for Caucasoid, however, she is for sure white in any other definition than exclusively Northern European/Nordish being accepted as white.

http://www.born-today.com/Today/pix/cruz_penelope2.jpg

http://www.askmen.com/imagesvote/2001_nov/tom_cruise_girlfriends/penelope_cruz.jpg

And to compare her with Jennifer Lopez which is obviously a Mestizo and not even fully Europid/Caucasoid is strange.

Huzar
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 07:12 PM
, however, she is for sure white in any other definition than exclusively Northern European/Nordish being accepted as white.



exclusively Northern European/Nordish concept considers 60/70% of europeans to be not "white"' ??

Agrippa
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 07:23 PM
exclusively Northern European/Nordish concept considers 60/70% of europeans to be not "white"' ??

Well, thats why I try to avoid that term, because he can be interpreted in so many ways.

I just quote an Anglo-American commentator of a basketball game, that was indeed another time:
The German commentator said: "Look at this team, just 3 whites."
The American answered: "No, just 2, xxx is a Croat."

;)

He was mostly Dinarid by the way.

Some define it even more culturally and by religion - so being no Germanic, better Anglo-Saxon protestant and you are (or better were in those times) a "doubtful" white, even if being of a similar-same racial category, obviously mainly in the USA. Such considerations are largely foreign to most Europeans - especially making out of Christian confessions such a big deal in modern times.

GreenHeart
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 10:11 PM
The simple answer is no...

:voteno

Agrippa
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 10:14 PM
I think everybody who answered should give a short description of what he/she means with the term "white". Along the lines I tried to explain...or probably thats worth a thread on its own.

Alkman
Monday, March 6th, 2006, 11:58 PM
I think everybody who answered should give a short description of what he/she means with the term "white". Along the lines I tried to explain...or probably thats worth a thread on its own.I will answer this with the following example: It's a picture from my primary school years.All the kids, beside one, are of Greek origin.

I only consider the Gipsy guy that stands on the far left of the third line as non white.

Oswiu
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 12:26 AM
I will answer this with the following example: It's a picture from my primary school years.All the kids, beside one, are of Greek origin.
Which one are you, Germanos?! :) They're all white and alright in my book, naturally, as are all proper Spaniards, Italians and Hellenes.

I only consider the Gipsy guy that stands on the far left of the third line as non white.
My Gods, he looks like a bloody Indian! [I suppose he IS, actually]
Heracles on his Tshirt - in his dreams... :D

Alkman
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 12:39 AM
Which one are you, Germanos?! :) I'm the third one from the left in the first line. :)


They're all white and alright in my book, naturally, as are all proper Spaniards, Italians and Hellenes. Yeah naturally. Still it's all about the definition the term is given. I'm not sure that all Swedes i.e. would define all the kids as "white".


My Gods, he looks like a bloody Indian! [I suppose he IS, actually]
Heracles on his Tshirt - in his dreams... :D
He's ethnically Gipsy. He didn't have too many friends in the school as you may observe from his facial expression... :D

RedJack
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 12:45 AM
BTW, Cruz is a "New Christian" (Converted Jew) surname.

Intersting, since that nose pic that someone posted looks Arabid or Armenoid.

Theudiskaz
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 01:43 AM
Those kids are definitely all white, except for the gypsy boy.

Oswiu
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 02:06 AM
[i]I'm the third one from the left in the first line. :)
Oh Gods, I hate this sort of thing...
By my reckoning that makes you a wee girlie. ;)
Is that YOUR left, or the viewer's left, and are the rows numbered front to back, or back to front?!? :P
Let's just say this - what clothes are you wearing?!!! :D

Yeah naturally. Still it's all about the definition the term is given. I'm not sure that all Swedes i.e. would define all the kids as "white".
Where do you find such mean-spirited Swedes?! I looked a lot like some of the kids here when I was lickle.

He's ethnically Gipsy. He didn't have too many friends in the school as you may observe from his facial expression... :D
Nobody wants to stand too close to him either. Do Gypsies smell?

I liked Weg's comment;

What counts is the whole population, not a few individuals. Borderline types, you can find some wherever. Like Rosy de Palma e.g.?

But who is she? I'll have to look her up.

Agrippa
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 02:58 AM
I will answer this with the following example: It's a picture from my primary school years.All the kids, beside one, are of Greek origin.

I only consider the Gipsy guy that stands on the far left of the third line as non white.

The question is always were to draw the border. To me European Europids is an important category and might correspond with what some consider "white" (I'm just used to say "white" to all Caucasoids and thats how I read it in most works...), so everybody of Nordid, Cromagnid, Dinarid, Mediterranid (Euro-Med: Atlanto-Pontid and Gracilmediterranid), Alpinoid and Osteuropid racial type, at least pred. and being phenotypically fully Europid, is European by race.

Children are mostly bad to classify, adults are better. However, a good sign is if putting someone of really foreign race beside them - he really sticks out and their European character is clear.

Even if Cruz would be a conversos name, it would be necessary to look on her other ancestors as well since thats already some hundred years ago which would give her a lower admixture (of Europid race even) than many have in various parts of genetically by chance. Looking at her she is just pred. Gracilmediterranid, so I just wonder. Her face is in some aspects more exceptional which could be attributed to Taurid admixture (both Dinaroid or Armenoid being possible), but again, pred. Gracilmediterranid, definitely.

Does anyone have pictures of her relatives by the way?

Thruthheim
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 04:41 AM
I will answer this with the following example: It's a picture from my primary school years.All the kids, beside one, are of Greek origin.

I only consider the Gipsy guy that stands on the far left of the third line as non white.

What about the 2 in the middle, 2 boys next to eachother with only 1 girl imbetween them and the teacher!?

They don't bare resemblence to the rest of the class.

Agrippa
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 04:57 AM
What about the 2 in the middle, 2 boys next to eachother with only 1 girl imbetween them and the teacher!?

They don't bare resemblence to the rest of the class.

They resemble but are darker and more Mediterranid, probably even Eastmediterranid looking. Other then being somewhat darker they dont look that special in this group in my opinion, but I have to say that they stick somewhat out indeed, I noticed that myself.

Alkman
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 09:25 AM
Oh Gods, I hate this sort of thing...
By my reckoning that makes you a wee girlie. ;)
Is that YOUR left, or the viewer's left, and are the rows numbered front to back, or back to front?!? :P
Let's just say this - what clothes are you wearing?!!! :D .
LOL,i must was very sleepy last night. :D
Third from the right it is,sixth from the left.


Where do you find such mean-spirited Swedes?! I looked a lot like some of the kids here when I was lickle.
There are some Scandinabians that equalise "White" with Nordish. In this case most of the kids wouldn't fit. As others said, "white" is not exactly a scientific term, so everybody is free to have his own standards concerning it.

Huzar
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 07:05 PM
.
I just quote an Anglo-American commentator of a basketball game, that was indeed another time:
The German commentator said: "Look at this team, just 3 whites."
The American answered: "No, just 2, xxx is a Croat."
.




Gosh !! :-O Croats not white ? If it's so, then neither Slovenians or Austrians are white.............too bad.

Jäger
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 07:10 PM
Is this a white power forum?

Oswiu
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 07:28 PM
Is this a white power forum?

It's just that provocatively worded threads tend to attract silly people.

THese Nordicists are very welcome to biologically cut themselves off from their European brethren if they wish, but I don't see why they have to claim 'White' as something exclusive to them when they've ALREADY got their 'Nordic' identity. What does it profit to insult Mediterraneans?

I like your Orko, by the way! Takes me back...

Galaico
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 10:55 PM
Penelope's father, Eduardo Cruz.

http://www.noticias.hispavista.com/imagenes/corazon/2004/04/07/a20040407125512.jpg

http://media.eresmas.com/biblioteca/img/quemedices/R303-357.jpg

Left, Monica, Penelope's sister (not twin), right, Penelope's father with his girlfriend.

Glynd Eastŵd
Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 12:33 AM
I don't think she's Europid white. Looks like a Mestiza to me. Quite beautiful, though.

What I find suprising is that the question spawned eight pages of arguments. Am I the only one who finds that a little ridiculous? She's just one person. I find it ironic that she seems to be have been given a lot more attention than many of the Nordicist topics... :D

Leofric
Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 12:52 AM
I probably shouldn't do anything to encourage further discussion on this thread, since I don't think it's doing much for Germanic preservation (though maybe it is, and maybe someone else can explain to me exactly what). But against my better judgment, I'm going to jump back into the discussion.

Agrippa, you asked us to defined 'white'. I voted based on the definition given at the very start of the thread: white enough to breed with her. I see this thread as being intended to determine not so much the Europid-ness of Penelope Cruz (which should be beyond question or doubt), but rather the breeding inclinations of Skadi members. To put the question another way, one might ask, "Do you feel that you would be practicing Germanic racial preservation if you had children with Penelope Cruz? (and leave culture and spirituality out of it — in fact I only throw in 'Germanic' to account for the fact that this is a pro-Germanic forum)" If yes, call her white. If not, call her not white.

Now this standard needs some adjustment here and there. NordicPower, for instance, to legitimate her vote, would have to consider Ms. Cruz as representing a particular pigmentation class, of which men could also be members. I think such an adjustment is wholly appropriate.

I voted no, because I would not feel like my children were the beneficiaries of Germanic racial preservation if I had them with her. But I understand that others feel differently and I'm okay with that (though I would not be okay with other Germanics feeling differently than that about mating with, say, Seal).

Dr. Solar Wolff, you have accused me (indirectly) of being a liar for saying this, and have called for a list of men who swear they would not have sex with her. I have already sworn to God that I would not have sex outside of marriage, and I swear that, even were I single, I would not marry her because I would not want to produce children through such a union — for the sake of her pigmentation if for no other reason. So I do swear that I would never have sex with her.

But that is entirely beside the point. The question wasn't about having sex with her but about reproducing with her. Our technology has enabled us to reproduce without sexual intercourse and to have sexual intercourse without reproducing, so whether people would want to have sex with her is totally off-topic.

Oswy, you imply that it is an insult to say that Penelope Cruz is not white. Nonsense. Being white is neither better nor worse than being not white. Of course we all prefer what is our own, and we like to think that we're better because we belong to the groups we belong to. But in reality, we're really of all the same value in the end. When I say that Penelope Cruz is not one of my kind or one of my people (just in the racial or subracial sense), I am not saying that she is bad — just that she is different from me. I would hope that she and all those like her would think that I'm not their kind. I would hope that they would not want to breed with me, for the sake of their own children, so they could keep their stock pure. I would hope the same for everyone on the planet. It is no insult for people to be what they are.

Germanos, most of the kids in your class picture would not be considered white where I grew up (southern California, USA). Those that are clearly white by the standards of my natal society could be counted on one hand. Most of the rest would be called Mexicans (unless they knew the picture were from Greece, in which case they would probably say, "Wow, Greeks look just like Mexicans!"). Italians are almost all called Mexicans in Southern California, too, unless they have blond hair or blue eyes. But that's just the opinion of one small corner of the world, which I present without saying any of my own feelings on it.

EDIT: Germanos, in your picture, you are one of the handful that would be considered white in Southern California. [END EDIT]

Jäger, this is (as I'm sure you know) most definitely not a White Power forum. We are about Germanic cultural, racial, and spiritual preservation. The only redeeming thing I see in this thread, is that it might be related to the concept of Germanic racial preservation. I have voted with Germanic racial preservation (as I see it) in mind. This thread could allow for discussion of how Germanics view the concept of Germanic racial preservation. I would love to see it shift toward that direction, personally, since that would be more useful for the forum's mission than discussion of what the useless term 'white' ought to mean when applied to people.

QuietWind
Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 01:21 AM
I don't think she's Europid white. Looks like a Mestiza to me. Quite beautiful, though.

What I find suprising is that the question spawned eight pages of arguments. Am I the only one who finds that a little ridiculous? She's just one person. I find it ironic that she seems to be have been given a lot more attention than many of the Nordicist topics... :D

Eight pages yes, and also probably the most votes in a poll that Skadi has seen! Honestly, I am not sure I have seen a poll with so many votes (over 60!) and the votes being pretty much split. I think the split nature is what causes so much debate. If we were all of one mind on her there would be no need for discussion. You are correct...it's rediculous that we stay so focused on a single female. It's not like we are voting her into our hall of fame or something.

Personally, I think Ms. Cruz wouldn't be out of place in Lebanon or Syria.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 05:27 AM
We have talked about this before but the term "White" is probably of American or at least New World origin. The Latin Americans have a term, "Blanco" which applies in parts of South America (at least). People who know have told me that Blanco and White are the same except that mixed people are sometimes called Blanco in South America to flatter them or as a sign or respect. So is this a racial as well as cultural term?

To me, White means Caucasian unless the individual involved is unusually dark. So, some Arabs might be White if very light skinned but Osama bin Laden is definately not White although he obviously is at least partly Caucasian. Sometimes people refer to Armenians as something other than White--usually they just classify them as Armenians. Turks are also marginal. My point is that the boundaries of the term "White" are largely Europe itself. Fuzzy areas are the northern Arab countries, Syria, Iraq, Lebenon and even some Pakistani people where there are light skinned, Caucasian looking people as well as darker Indian-looking people.

But Penelope Cruz comes nowhere near this fuzzy boundary.