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Conquistador
Monday, June 16th, 2003, 10:58 PM
Source:Razdai Gutans (Gothic Language) (http://members.tripod.com/babaev/tree/gothic.html)


This language allows us to judge definitely about the East Germanic languages, for the other two of this subgroup lack texts, just having several inscriptions. Gothic states left us rich literature from their kngdoms existing in Europe in the 4th - 7th centuries AD. Gothic was spoken by the Ostrogoths of ancient Germany and Italy and by the Visigoths of eastern Europe and Spain. It was replaced by other Germanic and Romance tongues in the period between the 7th and 9th centuries AD. Except for a few Norse inscriptions in runes, records of Gothic are older than those for any other Germanic language.
Most knowledge of Gothic is derived from fragments of a translation of the Bible made by the 4th-century Gothic bishop Ulfilas (or Wulfila). The largest and most splendid of these fragments is the Codex Argenteus, containing about half of the Gospels. The Gothic alphabet, traditionally devised by Ulfilas, consisted of 27 characters: 25 modified Greek symbols and 2 runes.

Here are some main traits distinguishing Gothic from other Germanic tongues:

1) We know that Common Germanic had three voices: active, passive and medium, but only Gothic preserved all three, using mediopassive voice in the present and past tenses.
2) Gothic used the method of reduplication (double stem) in constructing the perfect stem of the verb. This feature is common with Latin and Greek, but is not seen anywhere else in Germanic.
3) Diphthongs were shorted into long vowels in Gothic, and ai > é, au > ó.
4) The strong verbs of the V class lost the suffix -j- (ligjan > ligan)

Gothic was extensively rich with preverbs, or verbal prefixes, which were quite productive in making new verbs. Gothic died leaving just a small dialectal group of Crimean Gothic which can hardly be considered as a descendant of this tongue.

Sa Țiudans ni slepiȚ jah gibiȚ maiȚm. :)

+Suomut+
Saturday, September 13th, 2003, 06:34 AM
EXCELLENT POST! Conquistador. I'm glad I'm not the only one on this site that has an interest in Gothic!

Zyklop
Sunday, August 15th, 2004, 05:41 PM
A dictionary for the oldest written Germanic language:
http://freespace.virgin.net/o.e/egd/letters.htm

+Suomut+
Sunday, August 15th, 2004, 07:52 PM
EXCELLENT THREAD/POST Zy.!!!! RIGHT UP MY ALLEY!!! :)

Theudanaz
Saturday, June 18th, 2005, 11:59 PM
There's no forum for the extinct East Germanic branch, so here's a couple links to get started. Could be of interest to all Germans, Italians, Spaniards, Belorussians, Bulgarians and anyone else who supposes they may have Gothic ancestry, whether rightly or not. :D

Language Lessons:
http://members.terracom.net/~dorothea/david/gothic/index.html

Wulfila Project (online texts, etc.):
http://www.wulfila.be/

Skeireins Project:
http://syllabus.gmxhome.de/gotica/Skeireins/

Gothic Etymological Dictionary by Gerhard Koebler
http://www.koeblergerhard.de/gotwbhin.html

English - Gothic Dictionary (PDF)
http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/gotischeswoerterbuch/NE-GOT.pdf

Connected to this last two links you will also find online other Koebler publications, many searchable online, of value generally to Germanic linguistics:
http://www.koeblergerhard.de/publikat.html

Todesritter
Sunday, June 19th, 2005, 12:35 AM
I would certainly vote for a Sub-Forum on this extinct branch. That the mysteries and insights of their language and culture were lost to history, and the Germanic world is a lesson I contemplate often.

I have a number of books on Gothic (Visi- or Ostro- ) and one that included some Vandalic dialect, which is thought to be in the same family.

It would be interesting if this language could be reconstructed, and learned the way Ancient Greek is.

morfrain_encilgar
Sunday, June 19th, 2005, 02:26 AM
I would certainly vote for a Sub-Forum on this extinct branch.

There wouldnt be enough interest in one language to justify creating a subforum here.

invictus
Sunday, June 19th, 2005, 06:20 AM
Great post, thanks!


I have a number of books on Gothic (Visi- or Ostro- ) and one that included some Vandalic dialect, which is thought to be in the same family.Vandal was one of the East Germanic languages along with Burgundian. Both are lost. Even what we have of Gothic comes primarily from bible translations done by Wulfila, a Goth Christian missionary.

I agree there would not be sufficient interest to sustain a subforum based on a single dead language alone. Perhaps we could begin a thread on Gothic in the Linguistics subforum and if it gains enough momentum it could turn to a sticky.

By the way, anyone interested in dead Germanic languages should get a copy of Orrin W. Robinson's "Old English and Its Closest Relatives (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0804722218/qid=1119160742/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-0423788-3370220?v=glance&s=books)". It gives you a good and easily digestible overview of the languages as well as the people who spoke them.

Theudanaz
Sunday, June 19th, 2005, 07:10 AM
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/




It would be interesting if this language could be reconstructed, and learned the way Ancient Greek is.

Wjatscheslaw
Saturday, September 3rd, 2005, 12:41 AM
Great! That's what i look for so long!!


Regards!!!!

Skyht
Tuesday, October 4th, 2005, 06:38 PM
It is IMHO obvious that at least the east Goths originated from east Europe/west Asia.

If we believe the theory of east Europe to western central Asia, as origin/homeland of the Indo Germanic peoples (which should still be the most likely theory), we come to the conclusion that the western Asia steppes were areas in which IE people lived.

Until about 2000 years ago there were still Tocharian’s in very eastern areas of central Asia, northern Iranian people in today southern Russia, around the Caspian Sea and their direct neighbours the eastern Goths, to the West (not to talk about other German tribes, northwest to the northern Iranian tribes and possibly early Slavs). The estimation of the direct location of early eastern Goths hard, but it should have been no more northern than the today northern Ukrainian border to Russia, a smaller move to the south might have taken place after the western Scythians lost their power over the region (about 2000 years ago).

This situation remained so until the mongoloid steppe people started their drive to the west. A few century’s later the Goths slowly began to appear in the history.

It is logical that the eastern Goths lived in their region around Ukraine and south west Russia, since long time, from at least 1000BC to around 100BC as neighbours of the northern Iranian Scythes (they could have been even a part of what’s called the Scythes). Later, as a matter of fact, as neighbours of the northern Iranian Alans/Smartians.

That’s why the Gothic language should be close to the language of the IE people. Its similarities to the Northern Iranian languages could be due to the influence both on each other, but it is also possible that they were similar because both were still very close to the original IE language.

Theudanaz
Friday, October 14th, 2005, 08:14 PM
Because of theory governing sound-change laws among IE languages we can determine that certain words were borrowed into Gothic from other IE languages at a time when Gothic (and all Germanic languages actually) had undergone certain changes, e.g. Grimm's law, Sievers, etc., which the donating languages did not. For this reason and others, and because the words in question are often so-called 'wander-words' and/or technical words associated with steppe nomadism in the style especially of Ossetians and related Iranic groups, experts usually explain this part of the Gothic vocabulary as not originally shared, or at least not in the apparent stratum. It may be that certain concepts had been re-borrowed by the time of Gothic's recording, but that devolves into speculation.



It is IMHO obvious that at least the east Goths originated from east Europe/west Asia.

If we believe the theory of east Europe to western central Asia, as origin/homeland of the Indo Germanic peoples (which should still be the most likely theory), we come to the conclusion that the western Asia steppes were areas in which IE people lived.

Until about 2000 years ago there were still Tocharian’s in very eastern areas of central Asia, northern Iranian people in today southern Russia, around the Caspian Sea and their direct neighbours the eastern Goths, to the West (not to talk about other German tribes, northwest to the northern Iranian tribes and possibly early Slavs). The estimation of the direct location of early eastern Goths hard, but it should have been no more northern than the today northern Ukrainian border to Russia, a smaller move to the south might have taken place after the western Scythians lost their power over the region (about 2000 years ago).

This situation remained so until the mongoloid steppe people started their drive to the west. A few century’s later the Goths slowly began to appear in the history.

It is logical that the eastern Goths lived in their region around Ukraine and south west Russia, since long time, from at least 1000BC to around 100BC as neighbours of the northern Iranian Scythes (they could have been even a part of what’s called the Scythes). Later, as a matter of fact, as neighbours of the northern Iranian Alans/Smartians.

That’s why the Gothic language should be close to the language of the IE people. Its similarities to the Northern Iranian languages could be due to the influence both on each other, but it is also possible that they were similar because both were still very close to the original IE language.

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, November 30th, 2005, 03:28 AM
Resources on the Gothic manuscripts:

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~dla/gothic.html

Leofric
Monday, August 27th, 2007, 05:46 PM
http://www.wulfila.be/

For those interested in studying the Gothic language (or really any early Germanic dialects), the Wulfila Project is a must. You can access the full text of the Gothic Bible (including versions that are POS-tagged) including the Skeireins, the Old Saxon Heliand, texts in Middle Dutch, and so forth, as well as grammars and dictionaries of Gothic and other early Germanic dialects.

They also have links to a plethora of sites related to Gothic studies in general, including sites that host Gothic fonts, sites on Gothic heathenry, sites on the Gothic calendar, and on and on.

287

Crownshelm
Wednesday, April 15th, 2009, 06:08 AM
Very nice! Not sure how I haven't stumbled upon this already. Thanks.

Linda Trostenhatten
Saturday, May 2nd, 2009, 12:09 AM
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=96017&d=1188233164ah so this is what Wulfila's greek based alfabet looks like.

hlaif unsarana țana sinteinan gif uns himma daga.
— Give us this day our daily bread.

hlaif - leaf of bread, unsarana - ours, gif uns - giv us, himma daga - this day

jah aflet uns țatei skulans sijaima, swaswe jah weis afletam țaim skulam unsaraim.
— And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

of let - take of - forgive
obviously the word for debt in norwegian german dutch is cognate to should



jah ni briggais uns in fraistubnjai, ak lausei uns af țamma ubilin; unte țeina ist țiudangardi jah mahts jah wulțus in aiwins. amen.
— And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

jah - and, ni - not, briggais - bring, fraistubnjai - temptation, but - ak, lausei - loose - af - of, ubilin - evil, țiudangardi - kingdom, mahts - might, wulțus - magnificence

Adaleiz
Saturday, May 16th, 2009, 06:31 AM
Great Resource! :D

Gardisten
Wednesday, July 1st, 2009, 11:54 PM
This may have been posted elsewhere...

Gothic: Introductory Overview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkKrS5yOPFI