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UberAlles
Thursday, February 3rd, 2005, 01:16 AM
I'm new to the group and unfortunately don't know quite as much as you all about World War II, but I'd like to know if anyone could shed some light for me about those nations/peoples who fought with the Germans during WWII. Mainly I'd like to know the Third Reich's official views on various groups as far as what made them worthy of being allies or enemies. For instance, the Germans set up a puppet state in Croatia and fostered the Croatians age old hatred for the Serbs. As far as I know, the Croatians and Serbs are genetically very closely related. They are as related as two groups can possibly be. What is it that made the Germans befriend the Southern Slavic Croatians yet subjugate the Southern Slavic Serbs? Also the Germans fought against the hated Russians and Poles, yet they counted the Ukrainians as their allies. As far as I've learned, the Russians, Poles, and Ukranians all come from the same Slavic subgroup.

Were these alliances merely bred out of the need to divide and conquer or is there some racial ideology that made the Nazis prefer some of these groups over the others?

Hagalaz
Thursday, February 3rd, 2005, 02:01 AM
It was all based on propaganda and total bullshit. I wouldn't worry much about it :)

Oskorei
Thursday, February 3rd, 2005, 02:06 PM
In war, you usually have to choose your friends on the basis of ideology and geopolitical interests. Germany forgot this simple axiom when they treated most USSR Slavs as Untermensch, instead of using them against Stalin early on, but in other battle scenes they chose their friends based on Realpolitik.

UberAlles
Friday, February 4th, 2005, 09:51 PM
Considering that this forum and the Third Reich itself are based upon matters of race, I feel that the question is worth exploring. To ignore Hitler's views on race is contradictory to everything that we stand for. This is especially true considering that I've seen a couple of posts recently that debate Hitler's views on the Croatians. Some believe that Hitler was convinced they were not Slavic. Anyway, to me matters of race come above culture, homeland, and language, so I want to know Hitler's view on everyone. I know that he's not necessarily the foremost expert, but he's a great place to start.

Nuke_Dukem
Wednesday, February 9th, 2005, 11:17 AM
quite honestly 99 % of what I've read so far about "race" on this site is complete bunkum. Hitlers view on race is widely known to be complete contrived ficticious non-sence, ask anyone who knows even the least bit about physical anthropology. Once you can get past this pseudo-science your agenda might actually be able to get some leeway. Don't take this as an attack on White Nationalism, it's just aggravating reading so much non-sense.

Oskorei
Wednesday, February 9th, 2005, 12:18 PM
quite honestly 99 % of what I've read so far about "race" on this site is complete bunkum. Hitlers view on race is widely known to be complete contrived ficticious non-sence, ask anyone who knows even the least bit about physical anthropology. Once you can get past this pseudo-science your agenda might actually be able to get some leeway. Don't take this as an attack on White Nationalism, it's just aggravating reading so much non-sense.
I took a quick check on who actually read the stickys in the "Race sections", and your name didn't pop up once. Maybe you just happened to read the 2-3 worst posts? :P (for 99% to be bunkum, I take it that you read 100 posts though)

However, this thread is about Germany's friends and enemies, if you wish to discuss racial pseudo-scince, feel free to start a thread in the sub-fora Free Speech or The Opposed.

oskar
Monday, April 17th, 2006, 12:35 AM
It all started in WWI when the Austrians attacked Serbia (which started the war) and were beaten. This led to the creation of Yugoslavia - a major defeat for the Austrians' ambitions in the Balkans. Also, it put a check on Italian ambitions in the region (which were confined to Albania instead).

As Hitler's war aims were basically to overturn the Versailles peace treaty, this also included breaking up Yugoslavia. In this he allied himself with the Croat nationalists. Also important in all this, is that they were fanatic Catholics, which suited the equally fanatically Catholic Austrian nazis.

It's on the basis of this that a lot of Croats like to claim that they're 'racially' different from the Serbs - they just happen to speak the same language. This is of course a load of bollocks! Both Serbs and Croats are slav peoples who speak a slav language. The etymology of the names is, however, Iranian. Although they spoke a slavic language it is believed that the ruling caste was made up of an Iranian / Indo-aryan people from the steppes north of the Caucasus, maybe even as far away as northern Afghanistan. A bit like the Russians got their name from Viking Rus from Sweden (Roslagen) or the Bulgarians, who speak a slavic language but are a turkic people (the Bulgars).

Before coming to the Balkans in the 600:s they lived in the region of what is today Eastern Germany/Western Poland. They were invited in by the Eastern Roman emperor to drive out the Avars, a turkic people who had occupied the area.

Prince Eugen
Monday, April 17th, 2006, 07:13 PM
In war, you usually have to choose your friends on the basis of ideology and geopolitical interests. Germany forgot this simple axiom when they treated most USSR Slavs as Untermensch, instead of using them against Stalin early on, but in other battle scenes they chose their friends based on Realpolitik.
You are right.One of the great mistakes of Germany during the war was that some times abondoned the true ideological allies!In Rumania left the conservative general Antonescu to inprison and persecute the members of the National Revolutionary movement of Iron Guard!In Chech protector R.Heyndrich forbided the N.S movement Vlaika(The Flag),in Hungary Germans favoured admiral Horty instead of the N.S movement Cross Arrow of Salazy!
And in country Hellas the German ''occupation'' forces prefered to collaborate with some conservative politicians than with ESPO NS movement!
And ofcourse many of the former allies ,like Horty,when it was obvious that Germany would loose the war they change side!

Dr. Solar Wolff
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 04:53 AM
To add to the confusion there were countries who started on one side and ended on the other side. Italy, Hungary, and Bulgaria come to mind but there may be more. Finland fought against the Soviets as did Germany so there is a question as to if the Finns and Germans were allies. Argentina was forced (against their true feelings) to declare war against Germany by the United States in the final stages of the war in Europe. Some of the Soviet republics were not too happy about things and so some of their citizens joined the German forces. There were Slavs fighting against the Soviets on the German side. It probably was not too hard for German propaganda to get around this problem. All they had to do was present Nordic looking Slavs fighting for Germany. Who could object to that?

Putzfleck
Friday, April 21st, 2006, 03:29 PM
Here's a table I built of Germany's allies and foes. Please correct me if you thing i'm made a mistake or left out someone.

Allies Germany, Enemies of USSR et al:
Ukranians (anti USSR)
Lithuanians (anti USSR)
Romania (opportunistic)
Hungary (Anti all its neigbors who took its lands, including the Romanians)
Slovaks (anti Czech)
Croations (anti Serbian)
Sweden (though officially neutral)

Enemies
Czechs (pro-western)
Poles (both anti German and anti USSR)
Serbia (pro Russian)
France
UK
Bulgaria (though allies, commited more to the USSR)

as you can see, every nation has its regional interests and it alliens itself with its enemy's enemy. Ideology is usually just a way to convince the mass of your goals.

Zyklop
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 06:49 AM
As Hitler's war aims were basically to overturn the Versailles peace treaty, this also included breaking up Yugoslavia. In this he allied himself with the Croat nationalists. Also important in all this, is that they were fanatic Catholics, which suited the equally fanatically Catholic Austrian nazis.
Utter nonsense. The Balkan was invaded on Mussolini´s wish.

On topic:
Green: Allies
Pink: Axis
Yellow: First Axis then Allies

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Zyklop/9c4314de.jpg

Dr. Solar Wolff
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 09:17 PM
I have a question about current events. Blair, Chirac, and Merkel are all running back and forth talking to Iran pressing US/Israeli demands.

I would like to know how the German people feel about this. Do the Germans feel threatened by Iran and did the German people elect Merkel to play this errand-boy role (same question for the British and French)?

Graf Spee
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 10:07 PM
I have a question about current events. Blair, Chirac, and Merkel are all running back and forth talking to Iran pressing US/Israeli demands.

I would like to know how the German people feel about this. Do the Germans feel threatened by Iran and did the German people elect Merkel to play this errand-boy role (same question for the British and French)?

From my point of view (correct me if i'm wrong:)):
The whole election process of Merkel was a bit strange. You know last year Schroeder had a majority in the Parliament (Bundestag) the most important institution in Germany) but not in the Bundesrat (Like a Senate) that had been the way for quite some time. Then they lost the elections in Nordrhein-Westphalia (as expexted)- but unexpectedly (and mostly unnoticed) Mr.Schroeder made a one day visit to Mr.Bush and after his return announced that he will hold new elections. Suspicious minds thought that Mr. Bush is planning for a new war and wanted to get rid of Schroeder in favour of a more loyal subject like Mrs.Merkel. (Who by the way wanted to support the Iraq war right from the beginning).

In Germany it was a tradition that the ruling party usually lasted for 2 or 3 terms- then they lost the election ,usually with a big numerical difference to the opposition party. (so in germany the change was always CDU to SPD, SPD to CDU a.s.o. since the '50s) But in 2005 the election was very close, suprisingly Merkel nearly lost and for several days it was unclear who would become chancellor. Also, compared to past elections only very few people went to vote, because on the one hand they were fed up with the SPDs politics but on the other didn't trusted the CDU either. But finally Merkel became chancellor - with support of the SPD wich dropped Schroeder and formed a coalition with the CDU (Suprise;)) (by the way- in some districts they used election computers -even worse than the ones in Florida- so its also possible that they manipulated 5-10% of the votes)

In general, from my experience i would say that a vast majority is still opposed against any kind war with Iran. The "Support the US" and pro war propaganda is very strong but the people are also very critical of it. And last but not least the German Army is involved in so many places all over the world that they wont be able to help the US on the ground.

Currently the anti-Iran propaganda is cooling down, I suspect that the US may skip attacking Iran because the opposition from China and Russia is to strong. When Iran will join the Shanghai Organization of Cooperation on June 15th the danger of war should be over I hope.
Lets only pray that there is no staged terrorist attack during the wold-championship:|

Hope this was not too much for one post- but i thought a little background info might be better to understand the whole situation.

Runenhammer
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 10:17 PM
i think u all forget about the japanese who we're allies to the germans, too

http://history.acusd.edu/gen/ww2timeline/Prelude21.html

Zyklop
Friday, May 26th, 2006, 12:28 PM
I have a question about current events. Blair, Chirac, and Merkel are all running back and forth talking to Iran pressing US/Israeli demands.

I would like to know how the German people feel about this. Do the Germans feel threatened by Iran and did the German people elect Merkel to play this errand-boy role (same question for the British and French)?You should rather ask if the German people are for or against increasing gas prices.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Saturday, May 27th, 2006, 03:15 AM
What I am getting from the comments of Graf Spee and Zyklop is that the Germans are involved and talking to Iran not to help the US/Israel but to attempt to stop military action which would hurt energy prices.

Graf Spee
Saturday, May 27th, 2006, 12:06 PM
What I am getting from the comments of Graf Spee and Zyklop is that the Germans are involved and talking to Iran not to help the US/Israel but to attempt to stop military action which would hurt energy prices.

Generally speaking you could say so.
But there are different fractions struggling within the german government. The military favours a peaceful solution, because they dislike the german support for the US in Afgahnistan, Africa etc. The politicians would side with Bush and attack Iran (The so called talks held between the EU and Iran were never meant to succeed- at least in the beginning. They should give the US an excuse like: "Europe tried to solve the issue peacefully but Iran didn't give us a chance so we had to attack.") But now with the stiff support of China and Russia, the rising gas prices and the lacking support within the own country they may have given up the military solution.