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View Full Version : Singing Neanderthals? New Research on their vocal tracts



Dr. Solar Wolff
Tuesday, February 1st, 2005, 03:33 AM
New research suggests Neanderthals had high voices and possibly communicated by song:

http://www.timesonline.com.uk

SouthernBoy
Tuesday, February 1st, 2005, 04:34 AM
The neanderthals were a fascinating species. I had also heard they were on average five times stronger than human men. I will try not to diverge from the thread topic though. ;)

P.S. I just hope I will be able to keep my dreams from becoming Neanderthal musicals. :D

Triglav
Tuesday, February 1st, 2005, 06:05 AM
The neanderthals were a fascinating species. I had also heard they were on average five times stronger than human men.
Source, chico? ;) I think that's impossible, but I'm sure they'd make a mint in the wrestling business - had they just survived. Or sumo. ;)

morfrain_encilgar
Tuesday, February 1st, 2005, 03:08 PM
New research suggests Neanderthals had high voices and possibly communicated by song:[/url]

Well many modern primates communicate by singing, so I would expect neanderthals to sing.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, February 28th, 2005, 07:46 AM
Well many modern primates communicate by singing, so I would expect neanderthals to sing.

Yes, but people sing as a part of their sexual strategy. In a head to head competition between sapiens and Neandethals, I can't believe Neanderthals would be more influential.

The Horned God
Monday, February 28th, 2005, 12:17 PM
The neanderthals were a fascinating species. I had also heard they were on average five times stronger than human men. I will try not to diverge from the thread topic though. ;)

P.S. I just hope I will be able to keep my dreams from becoming Neanderthal musicals. :D
Pound for pound Chimpanzees are suposedly four times (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Ei48pujDG_cJ:arts.envirol ink.org/interviews_and_conversations/JaneGoodall.html+chimps+four+times+stron ger+than+humans&hl=en) stronger than humans, they cannot swim (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:eH5PC4bTqnkJ:www.safari-park.co.uk/chimp-news.php%3Fid%3D62+chimps+cannot+swim&hl=en), owing to their higher density they sink like stones.A few years ago a female chimp drowned (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:NKDMJOKaQRwJ:www.animalpe oplenews.org/animobits1200.html+female+chimp+drowned+ at+dublin+zoo&hl=en)in Dublin zoo trying to rescue her infant from the moat of their enclosure.
I wouldn't say it's out of the question for Neanderthals to be similiarly powerful it might also help them retain Body-heat. Also, I believe Neanderthals never crossed even the narrow body of water of the straits of Gibraltar I can imagine them being terrified of water, where-as homo erectus may have utilised rafts (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Nfkd8va9IgIJ:www.findarti cles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_1_20/ai_53501818+homo+erectus+rafts&hl=en) to reach Australia.

morfrain_encilgar
Monday, February 28th, 2005, 12:36 PM
Also, I believe Neanderthals never crossed even the narrow body of water of the straits of Gibraltar I can imagine them being terrified of water, where-as homo erectus may have utilised rafts (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Nfkd8va9IgIJ:www.findarti cles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_1_20/ai_53501818+homo+erectus+rafts&hl=en) to reach Australia.

I wouldnt be sure that Gibraltar was an obstacle, because Middle Paleolithic North Africans may be intermediate between neanderthals and moderns. This mignt have happened if there was contact from one side to the other.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Tuesday, March 1st, 2005, 02:02 AM
I wouldnt be sure that Gibraltar was an obstacle, because Middle Paleolithic North Africans may be intermediate between neanderthals and moderns. This mignt have happened if there was contact from one side to the other.

I believe Coon identified some teeth from North Africa as Neanderthal.

Frans_Jozef
Tuesday, March 1st, 2005, 03:34 AM
I wouldnt be sure that Gibraltar was an obstacle, because Middle Paleolithic North Africans may be intermediate between neanderthals and moderns. This mignt have happened if there was contact from one side to the other.
Excellent, I see you finally opened up to an old work hypothesis of mine launched about a half year or longer ago which you debunked without much positive and rather dismissive commentary.:thumbup ;)

In my version of the story, being partial to F. Clark Howell's theory of progressive Neanderthalids as ancestral to the classic West European Neanderthalids and Modern Man, Krapina and yet-to-identify Neanderthals matching the description of Amud and showing a transitional cranio-facial configuration and evolved built, swarmed under pressure of the advancing glaciers in the Early Last Glaciation deeper into Eastern Europe, settlinfg for Crimea and pushing farther south to the Levant, by which a broad racial continuum is created lasting well into the Aurignician period.

Meanwhile another branch managed to cross the Mediterrenean Sea by island hopping or by initial beachcombing movements(beachcombing among Neanderthals are documented at least 60000 BP, but these practices may well be older and their traces lost forever under flooded coastlines...), which brings them to a terminus: Gibraltar.

Leaving Gibraltar for the unknown would be a hazardous undertaking for any species and it requires skills in navigation and a good understanding of weather conditions and tidal cycles.
The currents in the Strait are eastbound, because the water contribution of the Atlantic prevails, and they take courses of different directions and density. A counter current from the west can straighten it up, but a normal current may well achieve a speed of 5.5kmh.
In the Summer close to sunrise and sunset fog appears, which grows easily thick.

Nevertheless, today swimmers take up the challenge to swim over to Morocco, usually departing one to two hours before high tide.
It may sound far-fetched, but I think some Neanderthal groups were capable to think ahead, seek new "pasture" grounds and risk their lives and habits to start on the other side of the Mediterrenean Basin a new life.
Thanks to their coastal experience they understood the behaviour of weather, wind and water, they went on constructing primitive rafts where children, women, tools and other cargo were solidly mounted, while some males as a kind reconnaisance group went on swimming and others steered the rafts by pushing it forward in the water.

In time, some would have fallen prey to fatigue, hipotermia or nasty currents, even bad weather escalating into heavy showers, if not downright tempests killing entire families of pioneers.
Others, however, would have found themselves lucky to land on the shores of North Africa.
The Jebel Irhoud people were probably the descendants of this awesome sea trek.

morfrain_encilgar
Tuesday, March 1st, 2005, 06:19 AM
The Jebel Irhoud people were probably the descendants of this awesome sea trek.

I was referring to the intermediate position of Jebel Irhoud, which is between sapiens and neanderthalensis.

Frans_Jozef
Thursday, March 3rd, 2005, 09:42 AM
I was referring to the intermediate position of Jebel Irhoud, which is between sapiens and neanderthalensis.
Yes and I hope to have provided a possible, albeit speculative explanation why and how this came about.

The Gibraltar Neanderthal meshes considerably with Jebel Irhoud, but the skull cap is rounder and smoother than this North African specimen. One might assume that if it takes only shortening of the sphenoid bone to make a non-sapiens skull higher and globular, the Gibraltar Neanderthal much likelier a candidate is to evolve in Cro Magnon.


*Jebel Irhoud:
http://ma.prehistoire.free.fr/Jebel_Irhoud_1.jpg

*Attachments show the Gibraltar Neanderthal