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View Full Version : Who here count Reivers as ancestors?



Boerncian
Friday, January 21st, 2005, 05:54 PM
I am curious to see how many of us on this forum can claim Reiver ancestors, if your family names are one of the following or variations thereof then you would be a descendent of a border clans.


Archbold; Armstrong; Beattie; Bell; Burns; Carleton; Carlisle; Carnaby; Carrs
Carruthers; Chamberlain; Charlton; Collingwood; Crisp; Crozier; Cuthbert; Dacre; Davison; Dixon; Dodd/s; Douglas; Dunne; Elliott; Fenwick; Forster;
Graham; Gray; Hall; Hedley; Henderson; Heron; Hetherington; Hume/Hulme; Irvine/g; Johnston/e; Kerr; Laidlaw; Little; Lowther; Maxwell; Milburn; Musgrove; Nixon; Noble; Ogle; Oliver; Potts; Pringle; Radcliffe; Reade; Ridley;
Robson; Routledge; Rutherford; Salkeld; Scott; Selby; Shaftoe; Storey; Simpson;
Tait; Taylor; Trotter; Turnbull; Wake; Watson; Wilson; Woodrington; Young.
This is a unique and almost forgotten heritage, in no small part probably because of the ferocity of the culture does not encourage Christian gentleman to reminisce about their ancestors, who held such names as cleave the Crune, Wild ILL Will and such. Yet it is these folk who populated Ulster, and the American South. In some ways I think their unique culture gives us a picture of a side of us that has been painted over with Christianity and modern liberalism. I myself glory in the martial spirit of my Musgrave and Forster ancestors. They did not need charity only a good pony strong right arm a sword.

Rhydderch
Saturday, January 22nd, 2005, 11:48 AM
My great grandmother's family were Scotts, although they were from around Glasgow.

I think some of those names (possibly including Scott) may not necessarily guarantee that someone is of Reiver descent, because some of them have multiple origins, although including the Border region.

But names like Hetherington and Carlisle are taken from placenames which are only found near the Borders, and so would almost certainly indicate Reiver descent.

Boerncian
Saturday, January 22nd, 2005, 10:38 PM
My great grandmother's family were Scotts, although they were from around Glasgow.

I think some of those names (possibly including Scott) may not necessarily guarantee that someone is of Reiver descent, because some of them have multiple origins, although including the Border region.

But names like Hetherington and Carlisle are taken from placenames which are only found near the Borders, and so would almost certainly indicate Reiver descent.

Glasgow area was one area were they sent some of the Reivers as well as London. So not unlikely either.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Sunday, January 23rd, 2005, 09:01 AM
I find none in my personal ancestry but isn't it amazing how typically American these names are?

Boerncian
Sunday, January 23rd, 2005, 04:56 PM
I find none in my personal ancestry but isn't it amazing how typically American these names are?
Yes, most ended up America the huge influx from Ulster in the 1700's was largely these fellas. The poor Indians ha ha.:D

Rhydderch
Tuesday, January 25th, 2005, 12:36 PM
Yes, most ended up America the huge influx from Ulster in the 1700's was largely these fellas.
Although I suppose the bulk of them probably remained in the Border region. I would guess that the modern inhabitants of that area are mostly descendants of the Reivers.

Appalachian
Tuesday, January 25th, 2005, 01:27 PM
I've got Irvines and Foresters in my pedigree, both said to be from lower Scotland.

Good topic. :thumbup

Boerncian
Wednesday, January 26th, 2005, 12:17 AM
I've got Irvines and Foresters in my pedigree, both said to be from lower Scotland.

Good topic. :thumbup
Those are Reiver clans allright,the Foresters also produced variants Foster and forrest as in Nathan bedford.

Appalachian
Wednesday, January 26th, 2005, 01:28 AM
Those are Reiver clans allright,the Foresters also produced variants Foster and forrest as in Nathan bedford.

Interesting. I've got Robertson/Robeson/Robinson (all three names used within the same family), also said to be Lowland Scots. I wonder if they're connected to the Robson clan on your list.

Do you have any recommendations for further study on the topic?

Boerncian
Friday, January 28th, 2005, 04:47 AM
Interesting. I've got Robertson/Robeson/Robinson (all three names used within the same family), also said to be Lowland Scots. I wonder if they're connected to the Robson clan on your list.

Do you have any recommendations for further study on the topic?the best book is Steel Bonnets by George Mac Donald Frazier(author of the Flashman series) Reivers are nt really lowland Scots they are Border Clans. Quite a bit on the net look up Border Reivers.

Appalachian
Friday, January 28th, 2005, 01:14 PM
the best book is Steel Bonnets by George Mac Donald Frazier(author of the Flashman series)[/quotes]

Thanks. I'll check it out.

[quote]Reivers are nt really lowland Scots they are Border Clans.

Right. I was just saying that these families of mine are said to have come from "the Lowlands of Scotland."


Quite a bit on the net look up Border Reivers.

Most of the stuff I find is just from individual families talking about their own kin. If you have any more comprehensive links to post, I'd appreciate it.

Boerncian
Friday, January 28th, 2005, 07:27 PM
Right. I was just saying that these families of mine are said to have come from "the Lowlands of Scotland."
The Boernicians, who were a mixture of Scottish Picts, Angles, and Vikings, were one of the ancient clans of the Scottish-English borderlands. Considered to be the ancient founding peoples of the north, the Boernicians inhabited the tract of rugged territory that stretches from Carlisle in the west to Berwick in the east. In the 4th century, Scotland was composed of five different kingdoms, which were each home to a different race: the Gaels, Vikings, Picts, Britons, and Angles all held land, each had their own realm.

Despite the border that separated the Scottish families of the north from the English families of the south, many of the clans remained united, by territory and interest, across the border and most felt little allegiance to either Scotland or England. There were about 1000 clans divided across the border.

The border clans consisted of the Strathclyde Britons on the Western Border and the Boernicians on the Eastern Border Marches. The history of the Boernician peoples reached a crucial turning point in the 13th century. The dramatic escalation of clan warfare brought chiefs from both the English and the Scottish sides of the border to meet at Carlisle in 1246. At this meeting the chiefs cooperated in drafting a new and unique set of laws for the entire borderland territory. For example, it was a greater offense to refuse to help a neighbor recover property or possessions that it was to steal them in the first place. Additionally, for refusal of assistance, a person could be hanged without trial. These laws were unlike any prevailing in Britain, Scotland, Ireland or Europe.

Nevertheless, by 1587 numerous border clans had been condemned by an Act of Scottish Parliament for lawlessness. After the unification of the crowns of Scotland and England in 1603, James VI of Scotland attempted to break up the "unruly border clans". The border clans were banished to England, Scotland, Ireland and the Colonies.
http://www.borderreivers.co.uk/
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/other/border_reivers.htm




Most of the stuff I find is just from individual families talking about their own kin. If you have any more comprehensive links to post, I'd appreciate it.

Appalachian
Saturday, January 29th, 2005, 05:45 PM
Thanks for the links.

Take a look at what I found:

Border Reivers DNA by Surname (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gallgaedhil/dna_by_surname.htm)

Boerncian
Sunday, January 30th, 2005, 04:47 PM
Thanks for the links.

Take a look at what I found:

Border Reivers DNA by Surname (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gallgaedhil/dna_by_surname.htm)What a great site,my haplotype is closest to eb3 actually.but my fathers people were from Gotland and Chemnitz The arguement that this eb3 group came out of Africa 8,000 years ago has a problem.When I trace it to its my European origins in East Germany, thier are already quite a number of neigboring haploytpes, that is haplotypes that are only one or two alelles off.This would mean given the number of them, that our common ancestor had to be in that area between 20,000 and 40,000 thousand years ago. My Mothers side the Musgraves,Kilpatricks,Forsters all appear to be rb1 as I had two cousins take tests.These dna tests show most of the group has Celtic origins but a substantial minority are Norse.

Fraxinus Excelsior
Saturday, February 5th, 2005, 10:40 PM
I am curious to see how many of us on this forum can claim Reiver ancestors, if your family names are one of the following or variations thereof then you would be a descendent of a border clans.


Archbold; Armstrong; Beattie; Bell; Burns; Carleton; Carlisle; Carnaby; Carrs; Carruthers; Chamberlain; Charlton; Collingwood; Crisp; Crozier; Cuthbert; Dacre; Davison; Dixon; Dodd/s; Douglas; Dunne; Elliott; Fenwick; Forster; Graham; Gray; Hall; Hedley; Henderson; Heron; Hetherington; Hume/Hulme; Irvine/g; Johnston/e; Kerr; Laidlaw; Little; Lowther; Maxwell; Milburn; Musgrove; Nixon; Noble; Ogle; Oliver; Potts; Pringle; Radcliffe; Reade; Ridley; Robson; Routledge; Rutherford; Salkeld; Scott; Selby; Shaftoe; Storey; Simpson; Tait; Taylor; Trotter; Turnbull; Wake; Watson; Wilson; Woodrington; Young.
I have a couple of those in my family tree; so yes, I claim Reiver ancestry.

Boerncian
Sunday, February 6th, 2005, 02:48 AM
I have a couple of those in my family tree; so yes, I claim Reiver ancestry.
Welcome brother put on your steel helmut,and lets go a Reiving.:D

Fraxinus Excelsior
Sunday, February 6th, 2005, 03:01 AM
Welcome brother put on your steel helmut,and lets go a Reiving.:D:axe Lead the way. :fhhorse:

Fraxinus Excelsior
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 03:57 AM
My mom's mother's surname is Ratliffe(Radcliffe?) and her mother's surname was Oliver. She is from KentuckyI think Ratliffe and Radcliffe are the "same" name:

English: variant of Ratcliff

habitational name from any of the places, in various parts of England, called Ratcliff(e), Radcliffe, Redcliff, or Radclive, all of which derive their names from Old English rēad ‘red’ + clif ‘cliff’, ‘slope’, ‘riverbank’.

Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-508137-4

Appalachian
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 01:12 PM
Picked up a copy of The Steel Bonnets at the library, but I've been too busy to get very into it. Looks promising, though. Thanks for the recommendation, Boerncian.

Oswiu
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 02:18 AM
I've got quite a fair bit of Reiver in me, too. There's a Watson a few generations back, but the most recent name in my pedigree from the North East is Lamb [hence the heraldic device I use as an avatar].

Wonderful country up there. I walked along Hadrian's Wall a few years ago, and visited Bamburgh Castle, ancient seat of the Beornician Kings.

Rhydderch
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 02:57 AM
I've got quite a fair bit of Reiver in me, too. There's a Watson a few generations back, but the most recent name in my pedigree from the North East is Lamb [hence the heraldic device I use as an avatar].Is Lamb a border name? I hadn't known that, but at any rate I have that name in my family tree; they were probably from around Edinburgh.

Oswiu
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 03:19 AM
My Lambs are Geordies of Newcastle Upon Tyne, and the name's quite common up there. See this;
http://www.spatial-literacy.org/UCLnames/Map2.aspx?name=LAMB&year=1998&altyear=1881&country=GB&type=name
http://cetl1.geog.ucl.ac.uk/output/GBnames_CETL12336223627044.png

Rhydderch
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 03:59 AM
I've also looked up the name in a Scottish website which had certain census details from 1891, and if I remember rightly, Lamb was common in south-east Scotland. Being common in Newcastle and south-east Scotland, it would make sense that it's a Border name.