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Oskorei
Sunday, January 9th, 2005, 12:18 AM
In this thread: http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=9319&page=1&pp=20 , there is mention of Black Irish, Black Dutch and Black Danish, i.e. darkhaired, probably Atlanto-Med, natives of these countries.

The Black Danish however are left out. Is there any Atlanto-Med population in Denmark, and are there even some famous Danes who would be classified as Black Danish. I've never heard the concept in Denmark, but seen a number of dark-haired Danes (probably more than in Sweden).

Vitor
Sunday, January 9th, 2005, 02:58 PM
I believe this is somewhat related :
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~edonon/rh.htm

The first europeans were not blonds, but dark haired, this people gave the most genes of present day western european (even if they are today blond), this was the Ice-age hunter (before the "aryans").

I have dark hair and my blood is also RH negative, and I am most likely R1b.


The many islands along the route to Finnmark were also slowly populated by these tough and resourceful sea peoples, and they also are still there. Much later the Vikings or Aesir came from the Baltic region and occupied the mainland of Norway. They called these dark-featured peoples of the islands the Vanir. They were puzzled why the sea peoples were so happy on their rocky islands and did not want to have anything to do with the handsome blond, Rh-positive Norsemen who had arrived thousands of years after the Vanir, and occupied the Norwegian mainland. Mythology has provided us with several legends about the aggressive Aesir attacking the Vanir whose only desire was to keep the strangers away. Where did the Vanir come from? They were part of an ocean migration, the only known ocean migration of Rh-negative people. Their blood is still so very evident from Morocco to the Norwegian islands.

btw this type of people have nothing to do with eastern mediterranids, only the same pigmentation level on the hair!

Is my believe that "aryans" have more to do with eastern mediterraneans though...

dishdawg
Monday, January 10th, 2005, 02:58 AM
I believe this is somewhat related :
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~edonon/rh.htm

The first europeans were not blonds, but dark haired, this people gave the most genes of present day western european (even if they are today blond), this was the Ice-age hunter (before the "aryans").

I have dark hair and my blood is also RH negative, and I am most likely R1b.



btw this type of people have nothing to do with eastern mediterranids, only the same pigmentation level on the hair!

Is my believe that "aryans" have more to do with eastern mediterraneans though...

I believe the key on that map is backwards. It shows the RH negavtive allele having less than eleven percent for the Baque and greater than 20 percent for those outside Europe.

Vitor
Monday, January 10th, 2005, 04:03 AM
I believe the key on that map is backwards. It shows the RH negavtive allele having less than eleven percent for the Baque and greater than 20 percent for those outside Europe.

Yes...
it's inverted!
:)
Basques have more than 20% (actually it's close to 30%)
I edited that map...
here it's corrected!

Rollon
Friday, January 28th, 2005, 09:59 PM
In this thread: http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=9319&page=1&pp=20 , there is mention of Black Irish, Black Dutch and Black Danish, i.e. darkhaired, probably Atlanto-Med, natives of these countries.

The Black Danish however are left out. Is there any Atlanto-Med population in Denmark, and are there even some famous Danes who would be classified as Black Danish. I've never heard the concept in Denmark, but seen a number of dark-haired Danes (probably more than in Sweden).
I don't believe black hair in otherwise Nordic phenotypes has anything to see with racial mixing. I made a trip through Scandinavian countries once, and I noticed a phenomenon I had read in "The Passing of the Great Race" by Madison Grant.

Grant talked about 'those Norwegians with black hair", and as a matter of fact, during my stays in Denmark and Sweden I didn't see (or hardly) black-haired people (among the locals, I mean), but that happened with a striking regularity in Norway. I saw some very pretty people with all Nordic features, pale skin and clear blue eyes, and smooth black hair also. Madison Grant said you could find villages on the Norwegian coast full of such black-haired Nordics.

I believe this is due to some mutation (it could have occurred with some climate or any environmental change) which, for some reason, didn't fully develop in the population, but restricted itself to some individuals. I think those people are fully Nordic, and that this trait is no proof of mixing.

I don't know what explanation is the more likely, but for the time being I'll stick to the purity of the Nordic blood in Scandinavian countries, definitely. It just appears to me that black hair can be a Nordic trait.

Vitor
Saturday, January 29th, 2005, 02:04 AM
I don't believe black hair in otherwise Nordic phenotypes has anything to see with racial mixing. I made a trip through Scandinavian countries once, and I noticed a phenomenon I had read in "The Passing of the Great Race" by Madison Grant.

Grant talked about 'those Norwegians with black hair", and as a matter of fact, during my stays in Denmark and Sweden I didn't see (or hardly) black-haired people (among the locals, I mean), but that happened with a striking regularity in Norway. I saw some very pretty people with all Nordic features, pale skin and clear blue eyes, and smooth black hair also. Madison Grant said you could find villages on the Norwegian coast full of such black-haired Nordics.

I believe this is due to some mutation (it could have occurred with some climate or any environmental change) which, for some reason, didn't fully develop in the population, but restricted itself to some individuals. I think those people are fully Nordic, and that this trait is no proof of mixing.

I don't know what explanation is the more likely, but for the time being I'll stick to the purity of the Nordic blood in Scandinavian countries, definitely. It just appears to me that black hair can be a Nordic trait.

To me there is no distinction from some nordics and western meds, only different stature and different pigmentation, no differences in the skulls at least!

No, it's not mixture, the ones who might have light hair might be the ones that are mixed, maybe with new indo-european blood...or from a different Ice age european refugee who knows!

I call them western UP, we found most of this people in Ireland and the basque country in a sense they are the most pure europeans...

the others may have other inputs from other Ice age refugees.
I know there was 3 refugees in europe.

I was once blond until I got 3 years of age, then my hair started to gain pigmentation, it doesn't requires much to loose pigmentation, if that gives some advantage, It doesn't need any mutation, only slight variation in the genes.
Red hair is an mutation, but not blond hair!

Migrations based on the MTDNA...
http://www.mcdonald.cam.ac.uk/genetics/mtDNAworld/eight.html
http://www.mcdonald.cam.ac.uk/genetics/mtDNAworld/nine.html
http://www.mcdonald.cam.ac.uk/genetics/mtDNAworld/ten.html
http://www.mcdonald.cam.ac.uk/genetics/mtDNAworld/eleven.html

Based on the Y chromossome it's the same picture...
and even in the blood group ratios

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30135
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30136