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Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Monday, May 26th, 2003, 09:30 PM
Is marriage necessarily important for a couple to bring children into this world? Or is this just an old fashioned notion? Maybe it is just better for legal purposes? Should a man or a woman decide to have children on their own without a significant other?

Basically, is the two parent model automatically the best way to raise children? I dont believe that it is. I think that every child can be raised differently, and there really is no right or wrong way to raise a baby (there are extreme exceptions of course, such as abuse, etc.) For example, on one hand you could say that children need both a mother and a father, and you could believe that it is wrong for a woman or man to adopt a child on their own...but then what about children that grow up with a widowed parent, the other who died while the child was just a baby. Is it alright in that circumstance? Is that child going to grow up not as well adjusted as a child from a two parent home? Is it just a matter of a role-model from each gender, whether or not it is that childs parents?

Also, what do you think of societies standards for when people are ready to get married/have a baby? 18 or 20 may be considered too young to get married and start a family, but shouldn't that be based on the individual? Is it really a matter of being too young, or is it just a matter of how long it takes people to become financially stable, start their career, and be materially ready to start a family in our society?

Sigrun Christianson
Tuesday, May 27th, 2003, 02:58 PM
I do believe that marriage between a man and woman is necessary. Each child needs a male and female role model upon which to base his identity. He needs to see this adult relationship as a road map for his own social development and later adult relationships.

If we take the perfect single parent and the perfect married couple and compare them side by side, the couple will win. Two parents can provide more attention, more care, more diversity of education and insight, and more material stability than a single parent.

As I stated in another forum, babies make their first emotional & psychological attachments between age 6 months and one year. The primary caretaker during that period is usually Mom. Mom's abandonment of the child is usually devastating to the child. I'm not saying that a Father's exit is OK, but it appears that a Father's exit has less emotional impact. I'm not minimizing the importance of the Father, I'm just stating what evidence and research has shown.

A healthy single-parent home is, of course, preferable to an abusive two-parent household, but if the child can have a healthy two-parent home, then that is best.

Children in Foster Care would certainly benefit from a good single-parent home as opposed to being moved from Foster Home to Foster Home, but if I have the opportunity to place a child into an equally suitable two-parent home, I will.

The most well-adjusted, happiest and most successful children I come across seem to have these points in common:
A two-parent home
Parents who present a united front (so the kids cannot play one parent off of the other)
Parents who demonstrate appropriate amounts of affection towards each other in front of the children and towards the children
Consistency of discipline
Breast-fed beyond four months
Very, very limited access to TV and other media
A pet for which the child has some responsibility
Contact with extended family
Family Ritual practices, such as church, annual summer camping vacations, annual spiritual or culture celebrations

Yours,
Sigrun

cosmocreator
Tuesday, May 27th, 2003, 07:38 PM
Then what about one man with 7 wives. Each wife with their own children but all 8 in the family helping each other out. There are Mormons who live this way and personally I think it's a good system especially given how difficult it is today to raise children.

Azdaja
Tuesday, May 27th, 2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Vanessa
Is marriage necessarily important for a couple to bring children into this world? Or is this just an old fashioned notion? Maybe it is just better for legal purposes? Should a man or a woman decide to have children on their own without a significant other?

I don't know if marriage (in the religious and legal sense) is really that important, but certainly I believe that a child thrives best if raised in a loving home by his/her parents.


Originally posted by Vanessa
Basically, is the two parent model automatically the best way to raise children? I dont believe that it is. I think that every child can be raised differently, and there really is no right or wrong way to raise a baby (there are extreme exceptions of course, such as abuse, etc.) For example, on one hand you could say that children need both a mother and a father, and you could believe that it is wrong for a woman or man to adopt a child on their own...but then what about children that grow up with a widowed parent, the other who died while the child was just a baby. Is it alright in that circumstance? Is that child going to grow up not as well adjusted as a child from a two parent home?

It's just as Sigrun said.
My own father died when I was 5 years old, and I can tell you that it affected me deeply and in every way. There are certain 'archtypes' ingrained in the minds of each of us. 'Mother' and 'Father' are two of these. If something happens to either of our parents during our formative years, it can scar us on a very deep psychological and even spiritual level. It warps our perception and understanding of these important archtypes.
There are people in this movement who have went through what I have went through. I can see it in their actions and behavior.


Originally posted by Vanessa
Also, what do you think of societies standards for when people are ready to get married/have a baby? 18 or 20 may be considered too young to get married and start a family, but shouldn't that be based on the individual? Is it really a matter of being too young, or is it just a matter of how long it takes people to become financially stable, start their career, and be materially ready to start a family in our society?

Maturity plays a big factor as well. How many 18 year olds do you know who swear they have met the man or woman of their dreams?
5 years from now you tell me how many have stuck with that man or woman.

Ewergrin
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 01:33 AM
I do not believe that legal marriage is necessary at all. As long as both of the parents are available to the child or children then the base of what is needed is covered. I myself am divorced and I have 2 sons, ages 4 and 2. I am there for them whenever they need me and even when they dont. The relationship between their mother and I is good and in fact is better than when we were married.
I do feel it is inappropriate for a single adult to decide to have a child without a significant other. It does not seem fair to the child.
As Sigrun stated, it is important for both male and female counterparts to be present to help instill a basis for the child to develop an identity from.



>>Breast-fed beyond four months

Not sure how this is really a factor.

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by Azdaja
How many 18 year olds do you know who swear they have met the man or woman of their dreams?
5 years from now you tell me how many have stuck with that man or woman.

The same thing goes for someone of any age though. How many single 40 year-olds are there without the person of their dreams? Plus, over half of all marriages end in divorce anyway!



I do not believe that legal marriage is necessary at all. As long as both of the parents are available to the child or children then the base of what is needed is covered. I myself am divorced and I have 2 sons, ages 4 and 2. I am there for them whenever they need me and even when they dont

I agree, I don't think it is necessary to be married under the eyes of god or even the government( :D ) The way I see things, is that yes, it is important for children to have strong role-models of each gender, but I don't think that the two parent model is necessary at all. It just seems like some old christian tradition to me (though I'm not saying that I myself would never get married and have that "traditional" family).

cosmocreator
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 02:11 AM
To me marriage means living together and having sexual relations.

Sigrun Christianson
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 02:21 AM
Vanessa wrote: It just seems like some old christian tradition to me

The two-parent model existed before Christianity was an issue with Europeans.

-Sig

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 02:24 AM
I am aware of that, but it seems like Christianity is what "kept it around".

edit: Though I cant say that it wouldnt have stayed around without Christianity...

Sigrun Christianson
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 02:27 AM
I think tried & true practices and principles are what "kept it around".

-Sig

cosmocreator
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 02:42 AM
Polygamy has been around for thousands of years and still exists today even though there are laws against it.

I'm not saying that I want to be a polygamous or that it would even work for me if I tried. It just seems like it would be a good system. Financially with economy of scales. Eight incomes (assuming there are 8) but expenses increase by < 8.

Azdaja
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by Vanessa
The same thing goes for someone of any age though. How many single 40 year-olds are there without the person of their dreams? Plus, over half of all marriages end in divorce anyway!

Yeah I know that. But what I am saying is that at 18 years of age, one is more impulsive and naive. You (not necessary you, Vanessa) meet a guy/girl, and think they are your 'soulmate' or something. You honestly believe they are 'the one' and you are going to be with them forever.
Then things change real fast. High School is over, college begins, old friends are lost, new friends are made....and you and that person end up growing apart.
There is a certain romantic idealism that accompanies youth. But by your mid-20's it's replaced with a more realistic understanding of the way relationships work.

cosmocreator
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Sigrun
P.S. to cosmo: I was not referring to you. ;)

I'll take your word for it. But previously your commented on jokers -- no one jokes around here more than me even though that's fairly recent, and flirting -- no one flirts more than me the way I do with Vanessa.

I was sure you were talking about me but never mentioning me personally.

Sigrun Christianson
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 11:19 PM
Oh, in that regard? Yes, I was referring to you, but not you exclusively.

Sigrun Christianson
Thursday, May 29th, 2003, 12:02 AM
I split this thread because it was getting off topic. The breastfeeding posts were moved to the Women's Forum.

-Sigrun

cosmocreator
Friday, May 30th, 2003, 09:31 PM
You've been ominously quiet. Did you find what you sought? Are you ready to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen?

Aww. But there is a more sinister alternative (breaks out into an evil laugh)

Do not read beyond this point. Doing so may corrupt your young vunerable mind. You've been warned!

Find a rich old man to take care of you while you go to university. He'll take care of all your needs, rent, food, tuition, everything. Then once you get your Phd, dump the old man and get a boy toy, 10 years younger than yourself.

Life is so cruel sometimes.

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Friday, May 30th, 2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by cosmocreator
You've been ominously quiet. Did you find what you sought? Are you ready to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen?

I am very ominous. Very, very, very ominous. :devil

I cant say that I'm particularly ready to be barefoot and pregnant, I have to get rid of my wild streak first :evilgrin and even then I'd prefer to keep my shoes on...

Do not read beyond this point. Doing so may corrupt your young vunerable mind. You've been warned!

Nah, you've unravelled my diabolical plan. Except you left murder and insurance fraud out :evilking

cosmocreator
Friday, May 30th, 2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Vanessa
I have to get rid of my wild streak first :evilgrin


That may take a long time. I'm twice your age and still wild -- but maybe not in the way you are.


Do not read beyond this point. Doing so may corrupt your young vunerable mind. You've been warned!

Nah, you've unravelled my diabolical plan. Except you left murder and insurance fraud out :evilking

Careful. He may leave everything to the cat.

Waumo
Tuesday, June 17th, 2003, 04:46 AM
I don't think the legal ideal of marriage is important in having children. I do think have 2 parents is important. My daughter has me all the time and with her father being in prison she sees him several times a year but she knows how much her father loves her and cares about her and I think that is good enough for the situation we are in. I don't think she suffers really for not having him around all the time. Sure it would be great but we are very open with her and include her in everything so I think she is more mature then kids her age and understands life a bit better, or as much as a 7 year old can:) .