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View Full Version : Dinarids Ugliest Europids? Discussions into an Aesthetic Basis via Anthropology



Theudanaz
Monday, December 27th, 2004, 10:49 AM
Asking this outrageous sounding question because in my experience, having analyzed the faces of people considered ugly or extremely ugly by a large part of the (at least, local US) population, there seems to be a preponderence of dinarids or sub-dinarids in those groups, and this I mean aside from all the others who are simply considered ugly because of extreme dissymmetry or overcomplexity of features due to other factors besides subrace. I'm interested in others' thoughts. Is this apparent public opinion simply due to the context of the given europid subraces in my region, perhaps predominantly nordish or subnordish?:(

Rhydderch
Monday, December 27th, 2004, 12:12 PM
I've often had the impression that Americans dislike prominent, hooked noses; I think this is the reason for their considering Dinarics ugly.
The Germanic Nordic type seems to be admired in America (perhaps due to the strong influence of many Germans and Scandinavians who migrated there) which seems to have, if anything, a rather small nose, although small and large are of course, relative terms; so it would probably be considered 'normal' by it's admirers.

Personally, I don't think Dinarics are at all ugly.

Mandible
Monday, December 27th, 2004, 07:24 PM
Bad guys always have hooked noses, Ottoman sultans, the wicked witch of the west, gnomes...

Awar
Monday, December 27th, 2004, 08:20 PM
It's sort of surprising why then Dinaric men have so much success with women
in the west. It must be because women actually like 'bad boys'.

Awar
Monday, December 27th, 2004, 08:24 PM
Bad guys always have hooked noses, Ottoman sultans, the wicked witch of the west, gnomes...

The hooked noses are an Irano-Afghan and Armenoid characteristic.
You'll rarely find such truly 'hooked' noses in the area between Balkans and France ( the Dinarid area ).

SouthernBoy
Monday, December 27th, 2004, 08:53 PM
The hooked noses are an Irano-Afghan and Armenoid characteristic.
You'll rarely find such truly 'hooked' noses in the area between Balkans and France ( the Dinarid area ).
I actually think Dinarids look handsome compared to the ugly Armenids and Irano-Afghanids. Atleast the Dinarids don't have receding chins, or short statures.

Theudanaz
Monday, December 27th, 2004, 09:24 PM
True. I had neglected to include the Armo's, perhaps from unconscious realization of their non-Europid influences...:D



I actually think Dinarids look handsome compared to the ugly Armenids and Irano-Afghanids. Atleast the Dinarids don't have receding chins, or short statures.

Awar
Monday, December 27th, 2004, 10:37 PM
Yes, Southern Boy explained the main differences.

The Armenids are fully caucasoid, in fact, extreme caucasoid-featured,
in my dictionary caucasoid is synonimous with Europid...

But not European
You'll hardly find any Armenids or Irano-Afghans in Europe.

Irano-Afghans are IMO quite an fine looking type.
Iranian men and women I've seen are quite tall and handsome.

SouthernBoy
Tuesday, December 28th, 2004, 03:29 AM
They are definitely Europid, I also find it synonymous with Caucasoid, and are probably quite progressive. Although it is Agrippa that knows a lot about progression. It is arguable though that they could have a Turanid component, of which I won't argue, in their make-up. Turanid is atleast somewhat of a "non-Europid influence." Irano-Afghanids are more Corded than Armenids, which attributes to their height and fine-features. I would say that Armenids are the ugliest Europids (Caucasoids), although Dinarids are no where near as handsome as Nordids, Atlantids, and Mediterranids. :)

Theudanaz
Tuesday, December 28th, 2004, 05:03 AM
I stand somewhat corrected; and furthermore I suppose that, if I had titled the thread with the word Armenids rather than Dinarids, interest would be comparatively lacking on account of the self-evident nature of that assertion. Work should be done henceforth on determining the relative ugliness of the ugliest subraces of each hominid race.:D

Mac Seafraidh
Tuesday, December 28th, 2004, 07:30 AM
Well, Alessandra is probably only slightly dinarid and her grandfather more so. I am not sure about the son. He is too liberal to pay attention to. She is not ugly for her age.

http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/immagini/mussolini_alessandra.jpg

http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/immagini/mussolini_alessandra.jpg

Northern Paladin
Tuesday, December 28th, 2004, 08:05 AM
Dinarids are one of the uglier European subraces. Since in some of their characteristics they are remeniscent of Armenoids.

Rhydderch
Tuesday, December 28th, 2004, 08:10 AM
The hooked noses are an Irano-Afghan and Armenoid characteristic.
You'll rarely find such truly 'hooked' noses in the area between Balkans and France ( the Dinarid area ).That's true actually; because although Dinarics have very convex noses with a prominent nasal bone, the tip is usually horizontally placed, and does not extend lower than the nose's attachment to the face

I could add that the 'truly hooked' nose is also a feature of the Orientalid (or Arabid) type.


I actually think Dinarids look handsome compared to the ugly Armenids and Irano-Afghanids. Atleast the Dinarids don't have receding chins, or short statures.Armenoids, although shorter than Dinarics, are on average medium statured. I have seen many quite tall Armenoids, and due to the heavy build, they look very large, in fact rather formidable.

Gareth
Tuesday, December 28th, 2004, 09:44 AM
Dinarids are one of the uglier European subraces. Since in some of their characteristics they are remeniscent of Armenoids.
I came over this posting of Volksdeutscher right now:

Armenids are put in with Dinarids in a Taurid group because of the brachycephalic skull, elongated face, often flattish in the occipital region and the salient nose which is frequently convex. I would not be surprised if Armenids have an Arabid-related (but they are very low-skulled and Armenids are high-skulled) source and Lundman claimed that the Dinarids are from the Pontids, which is possible, and they also have another source from the Borreby skulls according to the Italian anthropologist Biasutti. The flat occiput should be from the Borreby type, and/or from a brachycephalisation process of the Pontid race. Coon thought that Dinarids, Norids, and Armenids are parallel results of the same process repeated with similar materials in different places.

Dinarids is sometimes not a race per se, and it's fairly new, and it can sometimes be better to speak of Dinaricisations rather than Dinarids. The Dinarids can sometimes look Nordoid, if it was not for the occiput and the lower head and the very high vaults.
I guess the last words are spoken by genetics.

White Falcon
Thursday, December 30th, 2004, 09:44 PM
It's sort of surprising why then Dinaric men have so much success with women
in the west. It must be because women actually like 'bad boys'.
Yes , this "ugly" Dinaric Croat is quite adored in US.

http://www.geocities.com/ladoganish/Goran.jpg

dazed&confused
Thursday, December 30th, 2004, 10:06 PM
The hooked noses are an Irano-Afghan and Armenoid characteristic.
You'll rarely find such truly 'hooked' noses in the area between Balkans and France ( the Dinarid area ).
we could say Dinarids have convex though not hooked noses. Troenders and Keltics have convex noses too. european beauty standards are more oriented towards straight or concave profiles, expecially for women, and this could partly explain the reputation of 'ugliest europids' referred to Dinarids.

Telperion
Friday, December 31st, 2004, 12:42 AM
Dinarid facial features are not flattering on women, in my opinion. However, Dinarid men can look quite distinguished, particularly as they get older.

Awar
Friday, December 31st, 2004, 03:48 AM
Dinarid facial features are not flattering on women, in my opinion. However, Dinarid men can look quite distinguished, particularly as they get older.

I disagree. I find Dinaric women fine-looking with an aristocratic aura.

Example:
http://www.hungarianmodels.com/girls/087/pic04.jpg

Telperion
Friday, December 31st, 2004, 04:15 AM
Well, I'll grant that she is not bad. ;) But I tend to find Dinarid facial features rather masculine, so I find they generally suit men more than women. That's just a subjective opinion, though.

Awar
Friday, December 31st, 2004, 04:26 AM
:lol The same I feel about Nordid women... too masculine for my tastes...

Frans_Jozef
Friday, December 31st, 2004, 04:29 AM
we could say Dinarids have convex though not hooked noses. Troenders and Keltics have convex noses too. european beauty standards are more oriented towards straight or concave profiles, expecially for women, and this could partly explain the reputation of 'ugliest europids' referred to Dinarids.

The ugliness is often the result of a high-domed vault, roundish in profile, ghastly falling straight into the neck. The head lenght very short and the breadth, unlike Alpinids, negligible attached to a long face with Hither Asiatic traits is unharmonious.

Is this your typical EUROPEAN Dinarid? I would say: no. These aberrant types are either easily evaporating singularities or marked by some sad result of recombination, but not the rule for most European Dinarids.
Admixture with foreign elements is a probable and sound explanation.

Bear in mind, that European Dinarids have larger heads than their Asiatic counterparts, if any really exist.

Telperion
Friday, December 31st, 2004, 04:54 AM
:lol The same I feel about Nordid women... too masculine for my tastes...
Hmm, you and I might soon turn this thread into a soap opera. ;)

Awar
Friday, December 31st, 2004, 04:58 AM
The ugliness is often the result of a high-domed vault, roundish in profile, ghastly falling straight into the neck. The head lenght very short and the breadth, unlike Alpinids, negligible attached to a long face with Hither Asiatic traits is unharmonious.

Is this your typical EUROPEAN Dinarid? I would say: no. These aberrant types are either easily evaporating singularities or marked by some sad result of recombination, but not the rule for most European Dinarids.
Admixture with foreign elements is a probable and sound explanation.

Bear in mind, that European Dinarids have larger heads than their Asiatic counterparts, if any really exist.

IMO the Europeans are larger-headed and more rugged/robust than Asiatics because European Dinarics are derrivative from local UP ( and other ) populations.

The typical Balkanoid Dinaric has brow-ridges. The typical modern Balkanoid Dinaric isn't brachycephalic. Think about it ;)

Frans_Jozef
Friday, December 31st, 2004, 04:58 AM
Hmm, you and I might soon turn this thread into a soap opera. ;)

Be more creative, both of you, gentlemen and turn it in a contemporary bitchy version of JE T'AIME, MOI NON PLUS.
:D

Frans_Jozef
Friday, December 31st, 2004, 05:00 AM
IMO the Europeans are larger-headed and more rugged/robust than Asiatics because European Dinarics are derrivative from local UP ( and other ) populations.

The typical Balkanoid Dinaric has brow-ridges. The typical modern Balkanoid Dinaric isn't brachycephalic. Think about it ;)

I dont have to think about it, my son, you learned my lessons all to well. My work is done.
:P :D

Frans_Jozef
Friday, December 31st, 2004, 05:08 AM
IMO the Europeans are larger-headed and more rugged/robust than Asiatics because European Dinarics are derrivative from local UP ( and other ) populations.

The typical Balkanoid Dinaric has brow-ridges. The typical modern Balkanoid Dinaric isn't brachycephalic. Think about it ;)

Head lenght is more important than a cephalic index, the Alpinids in South Germany have the same mean as the Nordid Germanics of the Migration Age, while the lateral and transversal proportions of the French round-heads in the Midi and Central France is simply a re-adjustment to brachycephaly among a Mediterrenean or Mediterrenean/Alpinid/Dinaroid population.

Rollon
Thursday, February 3rd, 2005, 09:17 PM
It's sort of surprising why then Dinaric men have so much success with women in the west.
:bconfused Where did you get that ? It's a slur imo.

Agrippa
Friday, February 4th, 2005, 10:02 PM
I've often had the impression that Americans dislike prominent, hooked noses;

Americans usually like small noses and huge chins, the classical naive athletic type without too much character.

Anyway, Dinarids aren't the most beautiful type of Europe, but there are many beautiful Dinarid individuals, especially under the females which have less extreme features on average and the short head is not that noticeable, at least as long as they have long hairs.

Dinarids are generally quite progressive, but lack sometimes the balance of the features.

I think in the Dinarid type you see more extremes, some are really beautiful and above average, others quite ugly, there are not so much "average looking" people like in other types in my opinion.

Thats probably because of the extreme features, even small assymetry, less balance or a little bit more extreme features disrupt the overall picture.

cruhmann
Saturday, February 5th, 2005, 06:25 AM
Saying that Americans like this feature or that feature is a generalization. There are many different looks that are admired in America. Only admiring one specific type of look gets boring after a while. Also, most Dinaric women do not have as extreme features of that type as the men - they are usually smoothed down. There are many beautiful women in southern Germany, Austria, and other parts of central Europe, both mixed (with Alpine and/or Nordic) and unmixed Dinarics, although the mixed ones tend to be the prettiest.

Rhydderch
Saturday, February 5th, 2005, 07:20 AM
Americans usually like small noses and huge chins, the classical naive athletic type without too much character.
Yes, that's the look I was thinking of; I suppose I should have said more acurately, that it seems to be a mixture of Nordic and Brunn or something like that.

And although it's hard to make generalisations, that is certainly the type which most frequently pops up as "handsome".

Agrippa
Saturday, February 5th, 2005, 01:32 PM
I always wonder what types of women Americans sometimes like, with this huge jaws and small mouth.

Sure not all Americans are the same and other types are considered being beautiful as well, but especially if I look at certain series, there are types which wouldnt be considered that beautiful in Europe.

Just think about Jennifer Aniston or more extreme types with this jaws-chin to extreme.

Theudanaz
Tuesday, February 8th, 2005, 11:55 AM
I always wonder what types of women Americans sometimes like, with this huge jaws and small mouth.

Sure not all Americans are the same and other types are considered being beautiful as well, but especially if I look at certain series, there are types which wouldnt be considered that beautiful in Europe.

Just think about Jennifer Aniston or more extreme types with this jaws-chin to extreme.
I don't think Aniston is generally considered attractive except among the indoctrinated celebrity-fans and television-watching audience in America who also receive the constant reinforcement of advertisement and entertainment media attention. This has had similar benefit for the likes of Sarah Jessica Parker (aka jewish horse-face).

Dinarids are not the ugliest Europids imo. There are ugly formations resulting most often from dinaric and med interaction with other types, esp. alpine and kelto-nord. The dinaric type I think of as strong, perhaps savage or cruel, aloof, callous (these are probably from filmic depictions of Romans such as Cassius). There is often an aquiline association "a hawkish" or "eagle-like" look. There is also unfortunate association with dinarid-heavy jews. Even many southern alpinids and meds feel the effect (here) of being suspect jews, so that an infestation of suspiciousness has disadvantaged perfectly good races.

Deling
Tuesday, February 8th, 2005, 01:53 PM
Beauty is too subjective to be made scientific and general, do you think? There are beautiful individuals, and ugly ones; but this is still a matter of taste.
But if I'm to neglect my own norms (that is: not to think in terms of beauty and ugly) I say Finns, Swedes and ethnic Russians are most beautiful, and Southern Europeans (Italians and such) the least. Well, except gypsies...

william_russellsb
Tuesday, February 8th, 2005, 04:32 PM
Virginie Ledoyen (http://www.theworldjournal.com/special/supermodels/VirginieLedoyen/9.jpg) looks Dinaric (http://web.archive.org/web/20030720064041/www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Papers/p35.htm), and I must admit I do not find her very ugly. Cindy Crawford (http://www.voodoo.cz/cc/faces/CCFC057.JPG) also looks like a very dinaricized Nordic (Atlantid).

Other famous examples:
Monica Belluci (http://jfmarche.club.fr/Italia/Images/y2.jpg)
Robert De Niro (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/bobbanka/images010803/untouchables.jpg)
Alain Delon (http://teemix.aufeminin.com/imworld/stars/fan/D20040809/1124_379813789_ad765_H191919_L.jpg)
Al Pacino (http://alpacino.4mg.com/image/pacdevil.jpg)
David Duchovny (http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/mgm/return_to_me/david_duchovny/returnpre.jpg) (Borreby strain: wider mandibles)
Silvester Stallone (http://entimg.msn.com/i/150/ce/may/sylvesterstallone_150x207.jpg)
Christian Bale (http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/fox_searchlight/a_midsummer_night_s_dream/christian_bale/dreampre.jpg)
Charles de Gaulle (http://www.dhm.de/lemo/objekte/pict/BiographieGaulleCharlesDe_photoPortraitG aulleCharlesDe1958/200.jpg)
Tom Cruise (http://www-ni.laprensa.com.ni/archivo/2003/diciembre/10/revista/revista-20031210-01.jpg) (dinaricized Nordic)


I do not find them particularly ugly. However, it is true that in Hollywood movies, Dinaric men are often cast the "bad boys" roles (not to say psychos), while Dinaric women are often depicted as vamps. The righteous characters are very often looking Nordic. Dracula (http://www.mogu-mogu.com/costume/pro/sam/mask2/3026dracula_2.jpg) is a caricature of the Dinaric traits.

Triglav
Tuesday, February 15th, 2005, 08:18 AM
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. ;)

Huzar
Tuesday, February 15th, 2005, 08:46 AM
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. ;)
I agree.

shockgrrrl
Tuesday, February 15th, 2005, 09:10 AM
I don' care for hooked large noses and barely there chins, but someone may think that's attractive out there. :P That is also not to say they are all ugly, which of course they aren't, I just picked out 2 traits. I think each subrace has something that's not fully appealing.

shockgrrrl
Tuesday, February 15th, 2005, 09:15 AM
Yes, that's the look I was thinking of; I suppose I should have said more acurately, that it seems to be a mixture of Nordic and Brunn or something like that.
That is probably because the majority of the people with a European background in the USA are of German and Irish decent. German is first and Irish comes second, I know Swede may come in close to next. That is to say the look is more common, thus more accepted. People often favor others who look like them or close to.

Rhydderch
Tuesday, February 15th, 2005, 11:06 AM
That is probably because the majority of the people with a European background in the USA are of German and Irish decent. German is first and Irish comes second, I know Swede may come in close to next. That is to say the look is more common, thus more accepted. People often favor others who look like them or close to.The Nordic I was referring to is the Germanic Nordic type (the only type I consider Nordic in fact) so yes it would probably be mainly of German and Scandinavian origin, rather than Irish.

I find it interesting about Germans and Irish, I would have thought English would come ahead of at least one of them, but maybe those of English descent usually refer to their origin as 'American'.

Huzar
Tuesday, February 15th, 2005, 11:31 AM
IMO the Europeans are larger-headed and more rugged/robust than Asiatics because European Dinarics are derrivative from local UP ( and other ) populations.
I think, it's right.

shockgrrrl
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 06:05 AM
The Nordic I was referring to is the Germanic Nordic type (the only type I consider Nordic in fact) so yes it would probably be mainly of German and Scandinavian origin, rather than Irish.

I find it interesting about Germans and Irish, I would have thought English would come ahead of at least one of them, but maybe those of English descent usually refer to their origin as 'American'.
English comes close and I believe first in some places.

Huzar
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 02:32 PM
QUESTION : is there a difference, between the definitions : "DINARIC" and "DINARICIZED ATLANTIC-MED" ?

Fred
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 03:12 PM
and I must admit I do not find her very ugly.
I always considered her, as well as Alain Delon, as Atlanto-med. Most women I found attractive in France were always Atlanto-med with a slight Alpinid influence (think Sophie Marceau when she was young). I always thought that we are attracted to someone looking like ourselves, as I consider myself an Atlanto-med with Alpinid admixture, though I may be wrong.

Besides, Dinarics may be considered ugly, but as long as character is concerned, they always possess a leadership and a outgoing attitude that is quite appealing to women, that's what I observed though from the dinaric individuals I know.

Awar
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 03:39 PM
Besides, Dinarics may be considered ugly, but as long as character is concerned, they always possess a leadership and a outgoing attitude that is quite appealing to women, that's what I observed though from the dinaric individuals I know.

Sorta like Vincent Cassel ( who doesn't seem to be a real Dinaric, but a Atlantid/Armenid mix, but he looks Dinaric enough ), or Goran Visnjic.
Dinaric guys are popular among females. I think that counts for more than
what race-"scientists" perceive as 'aesthetic' for men.

Agrippa
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 05:04 PM
A strong nose and chin is considered being both progressive and masculine. Therefore females, especially those who want rather extreme masculine-Europid features, might be attracted, even by rather extreme Dinarid types if they are more or less balanced and symmetric.

Awar
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 06:10 PM
Vincent Cassel, and his (ex?) wife Monica Bellucci:
http://cache.corbis.com/CorbisImage/printlet/14/33/49/14334912/OUT927019.jpg

Goran Visnjic. The Croatian ( Serbian? ) actor, famous in USA for his role in ER.
http://digilander.libero.it/ERthebest/photoluka_file/luka10.jpg

Awar
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 06:39 PM
How come there are no Dinaricists? :D

It's not in their character. You'll probably find more of them as moderators on Nordicist message boards ;) You'll recognize them not by the photo ( which they won't post, often ), but by their extremist pro-something stance :D

Huzar
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 07:26 PM
It's not in their character. You'll probably find more of them as moderators on Nordicist message boards ;) You'll recognize them not by the photo ( which they won't post, often ), but by their extremist pro-something stance :D


:D :D :D

Rhydderch
Tuesday, February 22nd, 2005, 03:46 AM
QUESTION : is there a difference, between the definitions : "DINARIC" and "DINARICIZED ATLANTIC-MED" ?I believe so yes. I think that Dinarics are a quite distinct type, rather than an effect produced by mixture of certain traits. I generally find it's easy to distinguish between proper Dinarics and mixtures of Dinaric and Atlanto-Med.

I think I remember that Coon thought Dinarics were a mixture of Atlanto-Meds and something else (Alpines maybe), so that it could arise anywhere that those two types are present, but as with many of his theories about origins of some races, I believe that idea is erroneous.

Prussian
Tuesday, February 22nd, 2005, 01:25 PM
The question itself is subjective to varied conclusions dependent on it's outcome formed by opinion from one individual to another. The univeral truth of it all in relation to this question is that is purely trivial & not concrete fact.

May it be kept in mind the Dinaric sub-racial type is also found in a lot of Germanics, just as other varieties are also found & make up the general diverse pattern of composition within the Germanic meta-ethnic group.

My general opinion on this is the Dinarid is no less appealing in aesthetic sense then that of Alpine, Nordid, Borreby & so on. Each has their own distinctive characteristic that makes each both unique & important to the collective in the great sense of it all.

Thread closed.

Prussian
Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005, 05:44 AM
This thread is to be reopened on the grounds that the direction of discussion progresses in the manner of further dialogue of an anthropological nature.

It was moved to the lounge for a period due to certain low-brow comments based on inflammatory comments & also due to the nature of the question itself. However I am moving this back to here on the basis to it moves towards a definite anthropological discussion that has been started by various members within this thread.

Anything that is posted within the boundaries of low-brow comments & inflammatory opinion will come under the judgement of the staff via the warning system from this point on. This thread is to be discussed on an Anthropological basis & I do not expect anything less as a result.

Now that we have a template to where the thread should be heading, abid by the nature of it's intended direction.

Also this thread has had a modification to it's title to point out it's intended direction.

Dinarids Ugliest Europids? Discussions into an aesthetic basis via Anthropology

Thread reopened.

Draco
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 04:49 AM
The hooked noses are an Irano-Afghan and Armenoid characteristic.
You'll rarely find such truly 'hooked' noses in the area between Balkans and France ( the Dinarid area ).

This is correct. The Irano-Afghans sprang from the Armenoids, hence the hooked nose.

The term Dinarid seems to be confused with Armenoids...the two peoples look nothing alike.

Balkan girls are fair-skinned and very gorgeous, don't look the least bit ugly or sinister. ;)

Vojvoda
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 05:38 AM
Dinarids vs Armenids...very different.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030720021728/http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Images/p36f4.gif

http://web.archive.org/web/20030720064323/http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Images/p38f3.gif

Awar
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 05:40 AM
This is correct. The Irano-Afghans sprang from the Armenoids, hence the hooked nose.

I'm not sure about that. I think the hook nose is some sort of adaptation,
doesn't necessarily mean it's a result of a mixture. Besides, I think the Irano-Afghans are more archaic than Armenoids... at least they are mentioned as an 'earlier' type in several sources. :shrug

Just my guesswork here... I sincerely hope to see some credible new information.



The term Dinarid seems to be confused with Armenoids...the two peoples look nothing alike.

True, there are many similarities, but also many differences... probably as much as between other subracial types.



Balkan girls are fair-skinned and very gorgeous, don't look the least bit ugly or sinister. ;)

:thumbsup

Huzar
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 08:31 AM
This is correct. The Irano-Afghans sprang from the Armenoids, hence the hooked nose.
The term Dinarid seems to be confused with Armenoids...the two peoples look nothing alike.
Balkan girls are fair-skinned and very gorgeous, don't look the least bit ugly or sinister. ;)
Absolutely. I agree on all. The confusion between these two types seems to me like a residual anthropologic stereotype/prejudice of 100-150 years ago.:thumbup

Draco
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 04:41 PM
I'm not sure about that. I think the hook nose is some sort of adaptation,
doesn't necessarily mean it's a result of a mixture. Besides, I think the Irano-Afghans are more archaic than Armenoids... at least they are mentioned as an 'earlier' type in several sources.

Just my guesswork here... I sincerely hope to see some credible new information.

From Coons Races of Europe:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/DracoNS/troe-fig30.jpg

You can see some Armenoids went into the Irano-Afghan...both of us were wrong, neither is more archaic than the other (you said Irano. were older, I said Arm. was older) but it seems some Armenids did go the Irano-Afghan way, while the Dinarids did not.

The only important thing I was trying to get across was that:

1) Dinarids and Armenoids are not physically the same

2) Many people get the term Dinarid and Armenoid confused

3) The two followed a different evolutionary path.

Huzar
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 04:56 PM
I absolutely agree. Dinarid- Armenid connection must be the fruit of worst ignorance in anthropologic subject. In main researchers there's no mention of a similar thing. It seems to me to be an atavic residual of fear of asia

Awar
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 05:24 PM
You can see some Armenoids went into the Irano-Afghan...both of us were wrong, neither is more archaic than the other (you said Irano. were older, I said Arm. was older) but it seems some Armenids did go the Irano-Afghan way, while the Dinarids did not.

I don't know.. Coon is outdated, a lot. :)


The only important thing I was trying to get across was that:

1) Dinarids and Armenoids are not physically the same

True.


2) Many people get the term Dinarid and Armenoid confused

Because some anthropologists' range of 'Armenoid' also includes Dinaric, Alpine and Borreby types into the wider 'Armenoid' category.

This isn't very far from the truth, because these types are all metrically related, and according to newer genetic research, also genetically related.
Of course, distantly related.

You see, Y-chromosomes are handy for tracing migration routes, and
from those you can see that populations of Scandinavia, Central Europe and the Balkans are basically of the same middle-eastern root. There were several waves of migration, over very long periods of time, and, of course, more recent mixtures ( Uralic movements, Slavic invasions especially )

http://img218.exs.cx/img218/2282/o1zi.jpg

Marius
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 05:32 PM
Can you please explain a bit more the colors of the map, Awar? Thanks.

Awar
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 05:44 PM
Well, I'm pretty tired of typing the same thing over and over again,
so I'll just provide this great article here:
http://www.dnaheritage.com/masterclass2.asp

This map:
http://tinypic.com/1tocc8

And a very useful PDF file.

Note that Haplogroup 'I' ( also known as HG2 ) is
palaeolithic European, but has the same root as
the later arrived Neolithic haplogroups.

Huzar
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 06:17 PM
I've heard dinarid race to be generated, perhaps, from a UP type in origin.

Triglav
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 06:30 PM
I'm afraid you might be misreading that map, Awar. It illustrates the presence of one Y-STR haplogroup (red=present, yellow=absent).

Awar
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 06:39 PM
I misplaced the whole map, sorry.

Dienekes has it :)
http://img182.exs.cx/img182/8981/s004390041201zfhc40ty.jpg

btw. can you please post the map with 'I' haplogroup subclades.
There are a bunch of very interesting discussions on www.familytreedna.com
forum.

Triglav
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 07:00 PM
Didn't you post that one? :scratch

Awar
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 07:05 PM
No, just one haplogroup map :)

Could you shed some more light onto this map dear sir?
:P

Triglav
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 07:50 PM
No, just one haplogroup map :)

Could you shed some more light onto this map dear sir?
:P Of course.

Read the whole study. ;)

Triglav
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 07:54 PM
No, just one haplogroup map :)


Haplogroup I and its subhaplogroups (from the study you attached)...

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=31476&stc=1

White Falcon
Saturday, March 5th, 2005, 01:14 AM
Dinaric boxer from Croatia, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


http://www.stipedrvis.com/slike/galerijan/0003.jpg
http://www.stipedrvis.com/slike/galerijan/0017.jpg
http://www.stipedrvis.com/slike/galerijan/0031.jpg
http://www.stipedrvis.com/slike/galerijan/0043.jpg

Huzar
Saturday, March 5th, 2005, 02:54 PM
Dinaric boxer from Croatia, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


http://www.stipedrvis.com/slike/galerijan/0003.jpg
http://www.stipedrvis.com/slike/galerijan/0017.jpg
http://www.stipedrvis.com/slike/galerijan/0031.jpg
http://www.stipedrvis.com/slike/galerijan/0043.jpg

In some photos, he seems a bit more "clear" than mediterranean mean. I've seen some germans like him in southern germany and Austria.

Huzar
Saturday, March 5th, 2005, 06:11 PM
It's incredible, but there are people who said that a croatian is EQUAL to a saudi arab...........

White Falcon
Sunday, March 6th, 2005, 03:59 PM
It's incredible, but there are people who said that a croatian is EQUAL to a saudi arab...........
Who? Where? :|

Huzar
Sunday, March 6th, 2005, 05:18 PM
Who? Where? :|
In too many places.........

executiona9
Thursday, March 10th, 2005, 02:53 PM
Im Dutch and I have always considered Angelina Jolie and Rachel Weisz to be the most attractive women that I know.

When I tried to fit them into Caucasian subraces I came to the conclusion that in my opinion they are both mostly Dinaric

So therefore I guess I have a preference for Dinaric women

Huzar
Thursday, March 10th, 2005, 03:22 PM
Im Dutch and I have always considered Angelina Jolie and Rachel Weisz to be the most attractive women that I know.
When I tried to fit them into Caucasian subraces I came to the conclusion that in my opinion they are both mostly Dinaric
So therefore I guess I have a preference for Dinaric women

Rachel weisz is more dinarid, i think. I love her...........:love

executiona9
Thursday, March 10th, 2005, 03:37 PM
When I think of dinaric I think of 2 things : `sinister` and alluring/tempting/seductive

Dinaric people look somewhat `sinister`. When they smile it looks kind of like they are `making fun of you`. You know that `mean` laugh

At the same time this `sinister` smile is very alluring/tempting/seductive.

Angelina Jolie and Rachel Weisz both have this kind of smile, thats why I like them. Another woman who has this `dinaric smile` is Mila Jovovich

Huzar
Thursday, March 10th, 2005, 06:58 PM
Angelina Jolie and Rachel Weisz both have this kind of smile, thats why I like them. Another woman who has this `dinaric smile` is Mila Jovovich[/QUOTE]

Milla Jovovich.............. :heartbeat :iloveyou

User
Thursday, June 16th, 2005, 04:13 PM
Rachel Weisz is Jewish and David Duchovny and Sylvester Stallone are I think half Jewish.

lol

Isle-of-Skye
Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 06:15 PM
I'm doing research for a book I'm writing on whether or not science finds that the human brain is hard-wired to judge assymetry in faces due to the fact that assymetry is distant from the faces of most babies.

Anyone is welcome to volunteer a comment for my book on how you feel about various faces. My theory, based on scientific studies shown in videos, is that human brains are hard-wired to immediately like at first meeting a face that most resembles a cute baby's face. The characteristics humans might trust most, if this theory is correct, is a face that looks most like a baby's face.
The face would be broad, short nose, large eyes set wide apart, but not too wide (as in fetal alcohol syndrome), and symmetrical.

If you would like to participate in my survey, feel free to volunteer (at no cost to me) any commentary on what faces you trust most and distrust most, based solely in the symmetry of the face rather than the ethnicity.

My point is that science says human brains are hard-wired to immediately respond with trust and attraction to cute baby faces as opposed to faces that have small eyes or are narrow. What kind of nose do you like best as far as what you think is attractive? Most trustworthy?

The description is what I'm interested in, not the ethnicity of the person. What I want to find out for my book is whether or not the human brain is hard-wired to respond favorably to a certain type of face that looks like a baby face, but on an adult. What do you think? Thank you. You may send your answers to auralhistory@hotmail.com, if you want to volunteer your comments for my book.

I write on topics related to anthropology research for the general public.

Isle of Skye

JŠnos Hunyadi
Wednesday, January 11th, 2006, 01:17 AM
I disagree with Dinarid noses looking hooked.

Dinarid noses tend to be convex and bulbuous, but they are very seldomly hooked.

Hooked noses are more common with Armenoids, Sephardic/Haisdic Jews and Arabs.

This Armenian has a classical hooked nose

http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/pictures/asiaminor/armenian.jpg

Dinarid noses on the other hand tend to slope gently.

Most people generally say that Dinarid traits are best revealed with a profile shot. I disagree, to me Dinarid traits are best revealed with a strong smile, particularly if one nods their head downward. When one does so their nostrils usually flare up while the nasal tip plunges downward. The Dinarid smile is unmistakable.

Similar noses can occasionally be seen in Anglo-Saxon Nordics and amongst Tavastids.

Here are Steffi Graf and Wayne Gretsky for example. Both are Norics.

http://www.rp-online.de/layout/showbilder/2732-steffi_graf.jpg

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/walt_disney/miracle/wayne_gretzky/miraclepre.jpg

People with a Dinarid phenotype often have a slight difference in nasal orbital heigh with the tip of the nose sticking out further then the nostrils. Even the slightest difference in nasal orbital height can cuase such a look when one flashes a strong smile.

JŠnos Hunyadi
Wednesday, January 11th, 2006, 01:30 AM
Some Dinarid looking girls from the Balkans

http://www.jugoslovenka.com/lydia/lydia_1.jpeg

http://www.jugoslovenka.com/amela/amela_1.jpeg

http://www.jugoslovenka.com/born2befree77/born2befree77_1.jpeg

http://www.jugoslovenka.com/darija/darija_1.jpeg

http://www.jugoslovenka.com/lara_17/lara_17_1.jpeg

http://www.jugoslovenka.com/vivona/vivona_1.jpeg

http://www.jugoslovenka.com/dacika/dacika_1.jpeg

http://www.jugoslovenka.com/ohhhooo/ohhhooo_1.jpeg

http://www.jugoslovenka.com/mila_lez/mila_lez_1.jpeg

http://www.jugoslovenka.com/slobodan11/slobodan11_1.jpeg

http://www.jugoslovenka.com/aleks/aleks_1.jpeg

Evolved
Sunday, February 4th, 2007, 01:15 AM
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=72654&d=1157469968
I don't understand how this guy could be considered ugly, he's one of the best looking people I've ever seen. :)

I wouldn't like it if everyone had the same petite, boring perfectly symmetrical noses like post-rhinoplasty noses. The Dinaric subtype has a shorter head with a longer nose rather than the supposedly "ideal" shorter nose with a longer head. Its a balanced look still, reverse symmetry is not asymmetry, it just is not the "ideal."

Bhairav
Monday, February 5th, 2007, 06:53 AM
I don't get it either how dinaric looks are ugly per se.
It shows character and wit.

White Falcon
Tuesday, February 6th, 2007, 03:41 PM
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=72654&d=1157469968
I don't understand how this guy could be considered ugly, he's one of the best looking people I've ever seen. :)

I wouldn't like it if everyone had the same petite, boring perfectly symmetrical noses like post-rhinoplasty noses. The Dinaric subtype has a shorter head with a longer nose rather than the supposedly "ideal" shorter nose with a longer head. Its a balanced look still, reverse symmetry is not asymmetry, it just is not the "ideal."

Yea :thumbup

btw I think that dude is German.