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Ederico
Wednesday, May 21st, 2003, 05:11 PM
Let us start a discussion on Satanism, what do you know about it?

Grimr
Wednesday, May 21st, 2003, 05:15 PM
Satanism is a worship of the self, satanism enforces multi-culturalism, satanism supports collective individuality to produce an undeterminned goal, Satanism supports homosexuality and child rape!

Azdaja
Wednesday, May 21st, 2003, 05:42 PM
I'll just copy and paste what I wrote about it on the other thread.

Ahhh! No!
I assume here you are referring to 'Satanism' as defined and propagated by Anton LaVey. I've seen alot of people in the movement accept Satanism as being compatible with racialism, and conversely I know that many Satanists SEEMINGLY have racialist tendencies.
But let's look at a few facts. First, here are some about Anton LaVey himself:
1) Anton LaVey (real name Howard Levey) was a jew.
2) Anton LaVey was a pathological liar, claiming to have worked as a police photographer and lion tamer, as well as claiming to have dated Marilyn Monroe. None of these things are true.
3) Anton LaVey - while claiming in public to love animals - abused and mistreated his own.
4) Anton LaVey - while claiming that no Satanist could tolerate child abuse - stood by while a 'family friend' sexually abused LaVeys grandson.

Now some facts about Satanism itself:
1) Satanism teaches that the ego (ie: the persona) is godlike.
2) Satanism teaches that a person should not give their life to any cause, and ridicules martyrdom.
3) Satanism advocates and teaches women how to manipulate men.
4) Satanism teaches the use of 'black magick', under whose heading it includes:
a - the manipulation of 'psychic energy' to hurt or kill people.
b - the manipulation of 'psychic energy' to force a person against their will into having sex with the 'magician'.

LaVey upholds human WEAKNESSES - such as selfishness, cruelty, and arrogance - as virtues, and teaches that individuals who have these characteristics in abundance are 'superior' and part of a 'satanic elite'.
Satanism is an utterly degenerate 'philosophy' fit only for the most UN-evolved and UN-enlightened 'human beings'.

I would shake hands with a Christian or a Muslim, or even - yes - a JEW, before I would ever shake hands with one of these twisted pieces of shit.

Grimr
Wednesday, May 21st, 2003, 05:55 PM
A) Le Vey was no Jew

B) religion is nothing, it ammounts to nothing! what matters is race!

C) Le Vey was screwed up in the head and yer was a liar but he said some very origonal things.

D) Who would you rather fight next to? A nigger bible basher or some screwed up Maralyn Manson fanatics? Your choice white man...

E) I don't know about you but rebelling against a Jew god who in truth has really fucked us over! Sound very good to me!

Ederico
Wednesday, May 21st, 2003, 06:39 PM
I know a Satanist from the USA who has a high IQ and appears to be intelligent. Should I invite him over for a discussion?

Grimr
Wednesday, May 21st, 2003, 06:54 PM
Hell yes!

Azdaja
Wednesday, May 21st, 2003, 07:23 PM
A) LaVey WAS a jew. See "It's not easy being evil in a world that's gone to Hell" by Lawrence Wright, in "Rolling Stone" magazine, September 5, 1991: pg 63 - 68.
Also see the book "Lucifer Rising" by Gavin Baddeley.
And the fact that you are taking issue with this well-known fact is based on what proof exactly?
C) Like what? What'd he say that was so original? I've read "The Satanic Bible", "The Satanic Rituals", "The Devils Notebook", "The Satanic Witch", and "Satan Speaks". It's all just regurgitated and dumbed-down Crowley and Neitzche.
D) Neither. Both types are losers.
E) Sounds infantile and kind of stupid to me. If a person has truely freed themselves from Christian influence, they would not feel the need to bash it and make fun of it constantly like Levey and the sideshow freaks that forked $100 a piece over to that greasy jew - for a little membership card - did and do.

Grimr
Wednesday, May 21st, 2003, 07:48 PM
Whether Anton Le VEY is a Jew or not is beside the point, yet I am sure he is is not important!

You say that if people had truly liberated themselves from something they would not make fun of it? So the Nazi making fun of the filthy mud races is just what might I ask?

Satanism now contains no rituals to speak of, it is an individual worship! Of the self and by the self!

Whether Anton had a kike nose or not doesn't matter because he did not start the religion for all faiths are deep rooted in the mind of the believer from birth!

Ederico
Wednesday, May 21st, 2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Apothecary
Satanism is a worship of the self, satanism enforces multi-culturalism, satanism supports collective individuality to produce an undeterminned goal, Satanism supports homosexuality and child rape!

I equate Satanism to Atheism, Hedonism, and Human Arrogance, but I might be wrong in these associations. Satanism does put the Ego or the Self as the centre of all things and through that it is enough to reject from a Racialist standpoint. The Racial Folk is the centre of all things and our world revolves around our Folk not around our Ego. That Satanism enforces Multi-Culturalism is something that I would like you to give further details upon as I have talked to Satanists before and I do not know of any association to Multi-Racialism and Multi-Culturalism that Satanism might have. I do not understand what you imply by "satanism supporst collective individuality to produce an undeterminned goal" so perhaps you should clarify that statement. I do not know if Satanism supports Homosexuality and Child Rape but I am sure that Satanism supports pleasure-seeking in all its forms and that might include Homosexuality and possibly even Child Rape and Paedophilia.

Azdaja
Thursday, May 22nd, 2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Apothecary
Whether Anton Le VEY is a Jew or not is beside the point, yet I am sure he is is not important!

His birth name is Levey - a jewish name, and not "LaVey". You can feed into the lies if you want, but I don't see the point. May as well call a 'spade a spade', so to speak.
And it is not 'beside the point'. LaVeyian Satanism is a spiritual poison, and the fact that there is a jew behind it should make all racialists think twice before identifying themselves with it.


Originally posted by Apothecary
You say that if people had truly liberated themselves from something they would not make fun of it? So the Nazi making fun of the filthy mud races is just what might I ask?

The 'nazi' making fun of the 'filthy mud' was never a mud to begin with, whereas most 'satanists' were raised in 'christian' households, in a 'christian' (more or less) society.
Their switch to satanism is just an attempt to prolong, glamourize, and intellectualize the natural rebellion most of us go through during adolescence.


Originally posted by Apothecary
Satanism now contains no rituals to speak of, it is an individual worship! Of the self and by the self!

That's right. Of the faulty, imperfect, temporal, easily changeable, illusionary self. What a wonderful thing to 'worship'.


Originally posted by Apothecary
Whether Anton had a kike nose or not doesn't matter because he did not start the religion for all faiths are deep rooted in the mind of the believer from birth!

Are you a Satanist?

Rahul
Thursday, May 22nd, 2003, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Azdaja
The 'nazi' making fun of the 'filthy mud' was never a mud to begin with, whereas most 'satanists' were raised in 'christian' households, in a 'christian' (more or less) society.

That explains much about Satanism. Its a development of the Judeo-Christian(Middle Eastern) Cosmology. Anything IE will have to be a natural development, if you speak of religion.

That however doesn't mean that Aryans cannot create new gods, as a matter of fact they can and have done it, and we will do it in the future. That is a religious mode native to Aryan mind(Manas).

And most of all the Aryan conception of god or gods is entirely different from jewish-moslem or semitic.

Rahul
Thursday, May 22nd, 2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Apothecary
Satanism now contains no rituals to speak of, it is an individual worship! Of the self and by the self!

This sounds more Aryan and natural(obvious) too. However the presence of a component of a jewish cosmology may mislead some. And well, Satanism itself may have originally meant the existent, truth or that which is, as it appears in Sanskrit 'Sat', which shares a common etymological root with German 'ist'(the actual) or even the English 'is'.

This development similarly followed perhaps the Vedic Aryaman->Zoroaster's Ahrimaan change.

New need not be true and change need not neccessarily be for the better. This is an instance of perversion instead. Jews are known to have stolen a lot more and vilified more viciously many such Aryan lores. Today, as we see it happening, it has actually hijacked the meaning of the word God itself.

Weird, very weird infact.

PS: The act of self-worship by the self can be called Odinism too. The highest Aryan conception, above all other grand systems is that of sacrifice, and rituals are mere microcosm of an expression of Self-Sacrifice to the Self for the Self.

Azdaja
Thursday, May 22nd, 2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Rahul
PS: The act of self-worship by the self can be called Odinism too. The highest Aryan conception, above all other grand systems is that of sacrifice, and rituals are mere microcosm of an expression of Self-Sacrifice to the Self for the Self.

Don't mistake the 'worship' of the "Higher Self" (Super Ego, Godhead, Yechidah, Genius, etc) for what Satanists do. I know what you mean by 'Odin', and this is NOT what Satanists aspire to.
By 'self', Satanists mean 'ego' and persona.
LaVey and other Satanists - either through ignorance or malice - are constantly confusing and mangling different spiritual traditions, and twisting the terms around to mean things that they don't.


Originally posted by Rahul
This sounds more Aryan and natural(obvious) too. However the presence of a component of a jewish cosmology may mislead some. And well, Satanism itself may have originally meant the existent, truth or that which is, as it appears in Sanskrit 'Sat', which shares a common etymological root with German 'ist'(the actual) or even the English 'is'.

There certainly seems to be a certain 'class' of Gods whom all have similiar characteristics, and whose names all contain the letters "S" and "T". There is "Satan", "Set", "Saturn".
The "S", or more properly "Sh", is represented in Hebrew by the letter Shin, which is associated with the elements of fire and spirit.
"T" is Teth, associated with the zodiacal sign of Leo.
Reading these letters - ShT - "Yetziratically" - we can see that they may refer to a sort of "spiritual birth" or "spiritual manifestation". Even a "Manifestation of the Self"...but NOT the 'self' of the satanist (ie: the ego), but rather the 'Self' as a complete microcosm...the "Yechidah" and so forth I mentioned earlier, which I'm sure you understand.
So you see, the 'satanist' does not even understand what 'Satan' IS. The 'Satan' of the 'satanist' is just the out of control ego, and maybe even less than that. The 'id', 'nephesh'...ANIMAL self. And rather than taming the 'beast', the satanist lets it devour him.

I don't really like discussing these matters, but in this case I feel it is necessary. I really want to stress exactly how poisonous and detrimental satanism is to a healthy mind/body/soul.

Ederico
Thursday, May 22nd, 2003, 03:18 PM
Is the Ego equal to the Self, or is there a distinction? Satanism seems to be the glorification of the Id and its overtaking of the other components of the Self as you have implied, or am I mistaking something? Is the Self something that includes the Ego or is the Self just the Ego?

Azdaja
Thursday, May 22nd, 2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Iovvs Optimvs Maximvs
Is the Ego equal to the Self, or is there a distinction?

It depends what you mean by 'self'. The Ego is a reflection of something greater, though it does not realize this.
We could say that the Ego is the 'lower self', and the 'something greater" (ie: Super Ego) is the 'Higher Self'.
The goal should be to bring the Super Ego down to where the Ego is. The satanist, however, being dominated by the ego, refuses to admit there is anything above that which he deems to be 'himself'.


Originally posted by Iovvs Optimvs Maximvs
Satanism seems to be the glorification of the Id and its overtaking of the other components of the Self as you have implied, or am I mistaking something? Is the Self something that includes the Ego or is the Self just the Ego?

See my above explanation. But let me add that the Ego is not 'bad' or 'evil'. It's totally necessary! But a person seeking attainment should strive to have that Ego (lower self) lit by the Light of God (Higher Self).
The satanist, in contrast, chooses to close himself off from that Light.
This is the true difference between the "White magician" and the "Black magician". The Black magician has shut himself off from the light of his own Godhead.

Grimr
Thursday, May 22nd, 2003, 06:22 PM
How can you judge the soul? The foundation of mentality? Without understanding the Aryan condition?

The Aryan is as hard the steel he wields and has a spirit as cold as the ice his ancestors where formed on! With the capacity to build 24 billion concentration camps with no feeling, no remorse for the vermin he destroys! The Aryan is an immortal! Throughout human history he has retained status as the master race and only by his own hands has he put him self down!

The Aryan is beyond soul, beyond spirit! Beyond good and evil! The Aryan is his own god!

Azdaja
Thursday, May 22nd, 2003, 06:57 PM
What does the 'Aryan condition' have to do with a jewish charlatan and his 'church' of egotism?
Are you trying to say that Levey could understand the Aryan soul? Or maybe his 'mischling' whore of a daughter Zeena? The one who is married to the 'nazi' Schreck. Lol..some nazi! He marries a jewess.
What exactly is your point with all this 'Aryan condition' stuff? What has this to do with satanism?

Grimr
Thursday, May 22nd, 2003, 07:08 PM
The Aryan is beyond Satanism, the Aryan is beyond religion, the Aryan can go down any spiritual path he wishes and the Aryan is uneffected!

Azdaja
Thursday, May 22nd, 2003, 07:31 PM
Your statements make no sense at all:
1) If "the Aryan can go down any spiritual path he wishes and the Aryan is uneffected", then the 'Aryan' would never evolve spiritually. He would remain stagnant.
2) Whether it be pagan or Christian, the spirituality of the European people has always affected them and their societies/cultures GREATLY. Ever hear of the dark ages? The Inquisition? The Crusades? The constant pagan vs christian, or catholic vs orthodox christian, or catholic vs protestant bickering?
Wars, purges, terrorism...all in the name of spirituality. Twisted spirituality, yes. "Religion", yes. But still 'spiritual' by the understanding of the common man.
The 'Aryan' has historically been very affected by his spirituality.

Grimr
Thursday, May 22nd, 2003, 07:48 PM
The Aryan does not revolve around the spiritual, spirituality is an expression of the Aryan race! With out us there would be no worship!

Jack
Friday, May 23rd, 2003, 09:13 AM
*yawn*

Satanism is dumbed down Nietzsche. It encourages individual life and feeling of power, throws in some "magic" crap (Apothecary, read the last few sections of the Satanic Bible), and in the religious part of life, it criticises those who attempt to worship an unseeable, unknowable "God". It ackowledges race exists, but says only those people who become the best they can be are worthy of respect. With regard to homosexuality, it says each to his own. LaVay himself was a nut, and Nietzsche is far more interesting, with a more complete philosophy, than LaVay is.

I'm not taking sides because I know a few Satanists and they aren't bad people.

Rahul
Friday, May 23rd, 2003, 04:19 PM
I have absolutely no idea of Satanism. I haven't known any adherents of satanism. But the immediate feeling is of disgust, as it comes from a collection of jewish-semitic fables of the middle east. That aside, what is using a semitic cosmology cannot become a safe creed for the Aryan. Aryan is not a religion, I say again. Aryans need not have a nihilist excuse, for our own spiritual development is natural to our character.

The ideal would be Apothecary understanding this, that not only can we do without a piece of semitic hokum called judeo-christianity/Islam, we definitely do not require any other feeble deceptions either, as is Satanism. Satanism, from what is spoken by various folks here, is a completely denial-oriented approach to the living. It may be an effort to get away from the denaturalised repressing judeo-christianity, but it might be an equally flawed idea, still denaturalised to a certain extent, in that it uses the jewish cosmology.

The self cannot be hurt, it will certainly not yield to any amount of worship or subservience, since it simply IS!

Self has no delusions or misgivings. It relies on no external stimulants either.

Meanwhile FW Nietzsche spoke with disgust of Middle Eastern denaturalised ideas, which lacked any feeling of the life vigour within.

This Lavey fellow sounds like a product of capitalist anti-lobby.

How many books did he sell, by the way?

Grimr
Friday, May 23rd, 2003, 08:43 PM
In my opinion the religion itself is irrelevant, it is what people have done with it.

Put the weirdo Levy to one side for the moment, put race aside also and focus purely on what today’s Satanists do, they sit around doing stupid Wicca magical nonsense, they take drugs and the majority I have come in contact with are racist.

I think the old Jewery of Satanism has evolved due to the nature of its members into a second rate paganism.

The real two dangers with it are its support of drugs and its clear support of homosexuality because it preaches worship of the self.

Real Satanism, real worship of the devil and worship of darkness is Jewry! The Jew is a danger to himself and the rest of humanity!

To conclude lets look at why somebody would want to become a Satanist basically it says about that person they want to rebel against society, the jewized Christian religion and very probably against the niggers which rape their women, culture and race! Also with false propaganda about Hitler created by the Jews saying that the Führer killed himself on Valpurgus night and he was the Anti-Christ they probably believe that Satanism is some kind of religious Nazism.

Azdaja
Saturday, May 24th, 2003, 04:13 PM
Rahul:

So far as I am aware, Levey wrote 5 books:
1) 'The Satanic Bible' - Nietzsche, Crowley, Rand, and Ragnar Redbeard are ripped off and mixed together into what satanists misinterpret as a 'philosophy'.
2) 'The Satanic Rituals' - Instructions on acting out staged 'psychodramas'. At least Levey gives the people who inspired these dramas some recognition in this book.
3) 'The Satanic Witch' - Levey instructs girls how to use their bodies to get whatever they want from men. His teenage daughter Zeena, who got pregnant at age 15, writes the intro for this 'masterpiece' of satanic 'thought'.
4) 'The Devils Notebook' - Levey complains about how no one gives him recognition for being such an innovator (lol), refers to his own followers as monkeys, praises the jews, and offers his 'insights' into all manner of things via a collection of essays.
5) 'Satan Speaks' - another collection of essays.

There are also 3 books written about him and his Church of Satan by members of that 'Church':
1) The Church of Satan, Blanche Barton - never read it
2) The Secret Life of a Satanist, Blanche Barton - biography of Levey written by his mistress. All the lies are propagated, painting Levey in the best light possible.
He has the gall to refer to Crowley as a 'poseur' in this book. Pretty funny, considering the biography presented is 9/10th bullshit.
3) Lucifer Rising, Gavin Baddeley - A 'history' of satanism from an extremely pro-Levey viewpoint. It's still an interesting book though.

Willowsprout
Thursday, March 25th, 2004, 12:36 AM
http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html I guess its about satanism


http://www.satannet.com/lttd/ubbthreads.php?Cat=

Apparently this is where the Elite are in case anyone was wondering.:)

imported_Kaiser
Sunday, June 13th, 2004, 01:30 PM
I was wondering what you people think about Satanism, both traditional and LaVeyan types of it. I've read some posts on the section about Heathens and Pagans, so I'm wondering what Heathens think about this. I'm a self-confessed LeVeyan Satanist, and I find no shame in saying this. Actually I'm very proud of my choice. I highly respect you opinions, as at least you're not Xtians, who, in my opinion, are destroying our race and culture with their "peace and love to all creation" antics (no offence to any Xtians around, this is just an opinion).

Ewergrin
Monday, June 14th, 2004, 02:56 AM
I can honestly say that I do not know a whole lot about Satanism, or in particular LeVayan satanism What I do know, however, is that it stems from christianity, and that in turn, I will have nothing to do with it.

However, I don't mind the people who do believe in it. I won't deny anyone their right to believe in what they will.

Anne14
Monday, June 14th, 2004, 04:42 AM
Back when I was writing a ton of prisoners, I wrote a Satanist. He was kind of a freak, but young and more into trying to shock people. Just a kid, so I didn't pay him much attention.

Other religions don't bother me in the least. Except for when some Christian decides it is their life's mission to save my ass!

imported_Kaiser
Monday, June 14th, 2004, 07:16 PM
Soil, LaVeyan Satanism is the kind of Satanism which does NOT stem from Chritianity. It may sound strange, I know, but practically it does not base its belief system on the Christian Satan, but on the WORD Satan. Satan in Hebrew means, or used to mean, "the opposer, the accuser, one who questions everything". So someone who has these values is practically a Satan. "An opposer to what?" you may ask. An opposer to those spiritually oriented religions, and so does not believe in the spiritual side of a man, but only in the material side. Practically it's a self-gratification feast! Every Satanist is free to believe in God in whatever way he feels comfortable to live with, by any name he wants. Whatever form and name God is given, he represents the balancing force in nature, the one that contrasts to Satan (oneself). God is an anti-nature, since a Satan is one who gratifies his animalistic nature. In fact, if you look at the various notations of God in different religions, He is always advising man to stay away from the carnal life, as that equates to sin. We practically gratify sin, as they all give pleasure. Anything is permissable, as long as it abides to the country's law.

Mac Seafraidh
Thursday, June 17th, 2004, 08:16 AM
Satanism and Christianity is a Judeo-intervention. So since Anton LeVey is of some Jewish blood. I call him Anton Levine lol. Satanism is actually most related to Catholicism in the Catholic faith though. They use the Latin language in prayer.(Well, most Catholic churches do not anymore, but there are some that still do.)I believe they use all the Catholic Rites or The 7 passages I believe. I forgot.

imported_Kaiser
Thursday, June 17th, 2004, 10:29 AM
Yes Dr., you'd be right...if only you were speaking of Gothic Satanism, or else as I like to refer to it, Traditional Satanism. LaVeyan Satanism is usually referred to as Religious Satanism. Take a look at www.religioustolerance.org, and search for Satanism. You will find camparisons between Gothic and Religious Satanism, and you'll be surprised at the difference.
As far as I know, from hte books I have, the only Satanic rite in Latin is the Black Mass, which has no significance to LaVeyan Satanists whatsoever. The true Satanic rites are in English and Enochian, officially. But anyone who feels more comfrtable performing the rites in any other language, like Latin, (or Suomi or Zulu for all that matters) he is 110% free to do so.

Ka|ser
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 12:02 PM
Me, I'm a LaVeyan Satanist myself. I see no use in saying that LaVey was a Jew. Even Einstein was a Jew! Those that really make Einstein a charlatan? For once, listen to what people have to say before looking at his nose.

Yes LaVeyan Satanism deals with the glorification of the Ego, self-worship. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with pleasing yourself, with loving yourself? After all, it's the only thing I'm sure of its existence. If someone in here can manage to give me the proof of the existence of a Spirit or/and God, I'll be most happy to convert to whatever religion. In the meantime, I believe in myself, and in Human Nature.

No, LaVeyan Satanism has NOTHING to do with the traditional sense of Satanism, better described as Gothic Satanism. Gothic Satanism is just a perversion of Christianity, usually practiced by a bunch of rebel teens who want to look cool. Religious Satanism (under which LaVey's Satanism falls), is completely different and does not deal with the Chritian sense of Satan, but rather the pre-Christian meaning.

Why does LaVey "make fun" of Christians? Well, he was American, and America has a Christian majority. What would his words mean if he critisised Bhuddism? Or Hindu? Or even worse, Muslims (he'd probably be critisised for being a racist, but anyway)?

I think you guys should visit www.religioustolerance.org (http://www.religioustolerance.org) and look for Satanism. Very good source! It even has the comparisons between Religious and Gothic Satanism.

Ah, and please, Azjada, could you not offend people who are not of YOUR religion, and discuss, rather then critisize? Remember that there are other people besides yourself in this world. Yes, I know that my religion focuses on the ego, and yes, I know that my last comment may sound contradictory, but, hell, Humans are by definition social animals, and I act as such, as that's my nature.

Ka|ser
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 12:08 PM
Ah yes, one last thing I forgot! Socrates picked up the pre-Socratics' philosophy to build his. Plato did the same with Socrates, and after them Aristotle with Plato. So in you reasoning, Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle were not philosophers, and they had no "true" philosophy, just because they used others' philosophy. Sure...

That's what philosophy is all about! It's not about being original, about creating a philosophy. It's about thinking about the truth! If I think that Nietzsche, Crowley, Rand, and Ragnar Redbeard (just to quote you), had ideas which I think are the truth, why should I invent my philosophy, completely different from these? To look cool? To be original? F**k originality! I take what I think are the best from previous philosophies, include some new items which I think are true, and I have my philosophy.

rhadley
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 02:41 PM
Me, I'm a LaVeyan Satanist myself. I see no use in saying that LaVey was a Jew. Even Einstein was a Jew!

And your point about these jews is, what? BTW Einstein was a fraud, but that's way off-topic here. I'll just say that this fraud has nothing to do with his jewishness - it's just he wasn't original or the great "gernius" he's made out to be, surprisingly by the Jewish emdia mostly.

The actual point vis-a-vis Satanism is, specially the LaVey type, is that it's worthless - what does it achieve apart from an ego-trip and self-delusion about "magick"?




Yes LaVeyan Satanism deals with the glorification of the Ego, self-worship. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with pleasing yourself, with loving yourself?

And what exactly has it to do with White nationalism, with the survival of our folk, with a self-overcoming, with changing one's self through adversity and idealism? With the Aryan values of honor, duty, loyalty? Not a lot - in fact, zilch.

What's wrong with it is easy to say - it's decadent; and does not help our Cause in any way.

Fine, do it, if that's your thing; but evolve? learn? Edge nearer wisdom? Change the world? Forget it.




No, LaVeyan Satanism has NOTHING to do with the traditional sense of Satanism, better described as Gothic Satanism.

Wrong. Please get your facts straight.

Traditional satanism - the sinsiter path - is manifest by the Order of Nine Angles and has nothing to do with Goths, although some Goths associate themselves with the ONA. Neither has the true sinsiter way anything to do with the way of the Xtians.

What you describe has never really existed - excepts in books and films and in a very few small groups of often young kooks who don't know what they're doing.


Also, genuine satanism, the true Dark Side, has very little to do with ego gratification, with posturing, LaVey type showmanship and tricks, and Junior High "magick" of the Buffy type - and nothing whatsoever to do with religion, or any religious attitide.


The Dark Side is to do with change - Chaos - building a higher type of person, and disrupting life, society, evolving things through "presencing he Dark". Here's a good quote which really catches the essence of true evil:-


"It is of fundamental importance - to evolution both individual and otherwise - that what is Dark, Sinister or Satanic is made real in a practical way, over and over again. That is, that what is dangerous, awesome, numinous, tragic, deadly, terrible, terrifying and beyond the power of ordinary mortals, laws or governments to control is made manifest. In effect, non-Initiates (and even Initiates) need constantly reminding that such things still exist; they need constantly to be brought "face-to-face", and touched, with what is, or appears to be, inexplicable, uncontrollable, powerful and "evil". They need reminding of their own mortality - of the unforeseen, inexplicable "powers of Fate", of the powerful force of "Nature".
If this means killing, wars, suffering, sacrifice, terror, disease. tragedy and disruption, then such things must be - for it is one of the duties of a Satanic Initiate to so presence the dark, and prepare the way for, or initiate, the change and evolution which always result from such things. Such things as these must be, and always will be, because the majority of people are or will remain, inert and sub-human unless changed. The majority is - and always will be until it evolves to become something else - raw material to be used, moulded, cut-away and shaped to create what must be. There is no such thing as an innocent person because everyone who exists is part of the whole, the change, the evolution, the presencing of life itself, which is beyond them, and their life only has meaning through the change, development and evolution of life. Their importance is what they can become, or what can be achieved through their death. their tragedy, their living - their importance does not lie in their individual happiness or their individual desires or whatever." ONA: To Presence The Dark

This is a far cry from the ego posturing of the Church of Satan and the law abiding religious kooks of the Temple of Set.

Ka|ser
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 03:07 PM
First of all, Gothic Satanism and Goths have nothing to to with each other. It's like saying Gothic Cathedrals were biult by Goths. Gothic is something dark, gloomy and fearful, just like the Cathedrals or painting. Goth is a style, musically, and in fashion. Ye right, I can imagine the singer of Nightwsh building a church :D .

Anyway...Personally I try to divide religion and politics. I don't search for a political idea which supports my religious, or vice-versa. I believe in what I'm comfortable with.

Religion is a personal matter, I have no wish to change the world through religion! Far from it!



What you describe has never really existed - excepts in books and films and in a very few small groups of often young kooks who don't know what they're doing.
Get your facts stright. Norway, 1992. Go chack out the Church arsons, and go look for the band Mayhem and Burzum. They all existed. Very rare, but exists. And yes, destruction, death, despait, hate, et all. Ha, and that qute of yours proves how stupid such a person can be! OOH I'm so evil, I love war!! bleh....

As Church of Satan satanist, I do no believe in Satan as a deity of evil and death. But we use the true meaning of Satan: the adversary, the opposer, one who questions everything. And that's what a Satanist is! It's quite similar to the Lucifer dilemma. Lucifer derives from luce, meaning light. In fact Lucifer was a minor Roman deity of light. How could a god of light become the prince of Darkness is still a mystery to me. So what if I call myself Luciferian? Would I be a minister of light, or a dark being?

Take a look at the url I gave you. I has a detailed summary of Satanism, both Gothic and Religious. And also the lowdown on Goths.

Prince Eugen
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 08:07 PM
Satanism like christianity has the roots at the middle east's semitic tribes .
Anton LaVey was a jew and CIA agent.One of his church followers is the jew director Roman Polanski another famous follower is the nigger actor Sammy Davies Jr.
Satanism promotes multiracialism,homosexuality,murder of innocent children,for that reason is an enemy for our Race!

Oskorei
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 08:36 PM
Satanism like christianity has the roots at the middle east's semitic tribes .
The satanism of Mayhem and Burzum had its roots in their Northern Germanic blood. It was a reaction against Christianity from people who had been denied knowledge about their pagan origins. When they later had this knowledge many of them abandoned satanism in favor of paganism.

Besides, did not both Judaism and Christianity have their roots in monotheistic religions with an Aryan origin (Zoroastrism and maybe the Egyptian Sun-cult of Ekhnaton)?


Anton LaVey was a jew and CIA agent.One of his church followers is the jew director Roman Polanski another famous follower is the nigger actor Sammy Davies Jr.
Satanism promotes multiracialism,homosexuality,murder of innocent children,for that reason is an enemy for our Race!
Laveyan Satanism accepts homosexuality and multiracialism, but I have never heard that it promotes murder of children or animals. On the contrary it says that animals and children are "natural magicians" and therefore it is forbidden to kill them (maybe a strange reason not to kill someone but anyway).

One always has to separate between traditional satanism, laveyan satanism, and the religious beliefs of psychotic and insane people.

kinvolk
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 09:19 PM
I sure hope that I'm not in that last little catagory!

rhadley
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 11:39 PM
First of all, Gothic Satanism and Goths have nothing to to with each other.

Your assumption. Read what I wrote about Goths vis a vis ONA and satanism. Some is not the same as all, BTW.





Anyway...Personally I try to divide religion and politics.


And your point is?



I don't search for a political idea which supports my religious, or vice-versa. I believe in what I'm comfortable with.


And I try to find whatever aids my folk - our folk - and help it surive and expand and evolve. That's what I'm comfortable with.



Religion is a personal matter,


Nope, it impacts upon the folk. Some religions are good for the folk, some bad.



I have no wish to change the world through religion! Far from it!

Yet I do - for the benefit of my folk.



Get your facts stright. Norway, 1992. Go chack out the Church arsons, and go look for the band Mayhem and Burzum. They all existed.

And your point is, what? Do you know anything about them? Perchance they were inspired by the ONA..... HHOS

So they burned a few Xtian churches - why? You cast them as, what?



destruction, death, despait, hate, et all. Ha, and that qute of yours proves how stupid such a person can be! OOH I'm so evil, I love war!! bleh....

Typical evasion.

You miss the whole point about the ONA quote, about change, about aiding the folk. Order from Chaos; change bringing strength. Destruction aiding evolution. I think it's called the sinister dialectic BTW.



Take a look at the url I gave you. I has a detailed summary of Satanism, both Gothic and Religious. And also the lowdown on Goths.


I know far more about such stuff than you might think. But if you just want to massage your own ego and wallow in illusion, and decadence, and pretend to be "evil" and do "magick" like the CoS and Tos crowd, fine by me. No heresy there, then. Not even aiding one's own folk - and it's own racial archetypes. Now here's the crunch. But this is all probably obscure, to you.

But if you really want to change, to evolve, to be a natural predator in real life, to aid real change in the real world, to KNOW, then there is another way.....

Ka|ser
Sunday, June 20th, 2004, 12:50 PM
If you think that you will change the world with religion, you're really mistaken! If you think you're going to force your religion upon the folk, forget it! People need freedom to follow someone. Imposing something turns most people off. You destruction causing "evolution" is very Christian in ideology if you ask. Were they not the prime idea behing the crusades? You know, kill all infidels, so everyone will be Christian, i.e. perfect. And also the idea behind the Muslim terrorists right now.
This ONA you mention is a perfect specimen of decadence! The means justify the end. Very Utalitarian. So if for my cause, I need to kill an innocent child, I can...look who's prmoting child killing now! And no, CoS does not promote animeal and child killing, actually it's highly prohibited!! Apparently it's you who needs to look up some stuff!

CoS accepts homosexuality, but does not promote it!

The most decadent form of politics is the one which combines politics and religion. Man, I know what I'm saying...Malta has a Demo-Christian government. It leads to stupidity and closed minds throughout your beloved folk. If you want your folk to be happy, give them what it takes to be happy, not impose a ton of s**t on them. People don't like dictatorship, especially when it comes to such personal matters as religion and sexuality.

The church burning incidents were living examples of traditional satanism, which you said are only found in movies and books. THAT's my point! Yes I know about them, black metal is my passion. When the band leader Euronymous was interviewed, he gave the interviewer a summary of his "philosophy". He said that basically what they do is pervert whatever is written in the bible. Do exactly the contrary. Hell he even was gay, just to oppose the bible. So yes, the "movie and books" satanists do exist in this world. And that's only a famous example. Two weeks ago a teenager was killed in Italy during a Traditional Satanic ritual.

CoS leaves its members 110% free to choose whatever political alignment one might choose. YES, even NS like you. Why? Cause if you feel comfortable with it, so be it!! CoS even promotes mating the best with the best to create an elitist community!

rhadley
Sunday, June 20th, 2004, 02:49 PM
If you think that you will change the world with religion, you're really mistaken!

Reality --> is that religion has changed people over the centuries; it still does. It is vehicle, a means, of change.

Therefore, it can be used to bring change. Not the only means to bring change, but one of them.

Change toward what? A higher human - a superior being; a better Aryan; MORE Aryans.


People need freedom to follow someone.

Isn't that an oxymoron? Freedom implies individuality, to wit, individuation if we want ot be clever; or to be more clever and really Occultic, it requires genuine Adeptship.



You destruction causing "evolution" is very Christian in ideology if you ask
Nope, the idea existed before Xtianity - it's also gnostic BTW.



This ONA you mention is a perfect specimen of decadence! The means justify the end.
It seems you're out of your depth here - not knowing much about the ONA, whose aims are both personal and Aeonic. I suggest you read their Law of the New Aeon - Warriors, Freedom and the Sinister Way. It's at http://ona.apoliteia.com/guide/warrior.html

So if for my cause, I need to kill an innocent child, I can.

If you'd read the ONA quote I posted you'd see they say there is no such thing as an innocent person, which is a Xtian idea isn't it?


And no, CoS does not promote animeal and child killing, actually it's highly prohibited!!
1) Prohibitions belong to the weak - to be prohibit things is un-Satanic. The Sinister, dark, or Left Hand Paths are really individual and impose no restrictions whatsoever. Each individual must find their own way, via experience.
Shucks, you're just proving how un-satanic the CoS really is.
2) ONA says - who needs animal sacrifice when there is so much human dross around just waiting to be culled?




Two weeks ago a teenager was killed in Italy during a Traditional Satanic ritual. So what?? He/she failed, then. The real dark quest is difficult and very dangerous. That's what makes it such fun - and Satanic BTW. Get the idea, now?
No? Well I'm sure there's the comfy discussions and comfy Buffy style "rites" to pass away some time :)


CoS leaves its members 110%
Well, anything over 100 cannot be a percent... Sloppy thinking, I think :)

PsycholgclMishap
Sunday, June 20th, 2004, 09:00 PM
I understand Laveyan Satanism as a worshiping of the Self. A person who considers himself/herself to be a Levayan Satanist usually worships himself/herself.

You might be interested in reading "The Conqueror Manifesto".

Survival of the Fittest!

Ka|ser
Monday, June 21st, 2004, 02:15 PM
Well, it's true that religion did bring changes in the past, but religion also sacrifices good things to promote its ideology. An example is when a Catholic priest (I'm sorry, but I forgot his name, and don't feel like looking, such a lazy bastard :D) went to the then newly found americas and visited the Mayan culture. Now, Mayans had an impressive advancement in the sciences, and they managed to understand thing which even through modern science we can't unravel. But, this catholic priest, due to his belief that religion will change the world to be a better place and create a higher culture, he burned all the books he found because he said they were the devil's work, just because they performed human sacrifice. So, my point is, that if you don't give the people you want to change a certain amount of freedom, this could backfire onto you as well.

What I meant with that "people need freedom to follow someone" is that people want the insurance that, once your ideology will take full effect, their personal freedom will not be violated.



Nope, the idea existed before Xtianity - it's also gnostic BTW
Yes, you're right, I must admit... I always give credit to someone who's right.

Having read that ONA page you gave me, it reminds me a lot of the Bushido code of honour.

Well, why is child-killing highly prohibited? You can do so if you wish, but if you're caught you're going straight to jail...in that case, who will be the winner? Understand? That's why CoS says that one should do whatever one wants to do, as long as you abide to your country's law. Now, of course, some laws are stupid, and useless, but that's how it is! If you want to change that law, then you need politics. But in general, you should respect the law because the law respects you! Why is murder criminalised? 'Cause YOU could be the next victim. The laws, generally, defend the society, and you ARE part of society, so it's also defending you from murderers, frauds, robbers etc. That's basically the idea. Of course I'm not expecting you have this view as well. After all these are all points of view, and we're here to discuss not fight.



ONA says - who needs animal sacrifice when there is so much human dross around just waiting to be culled?
LOL, Lovely!! Yes, I agree with that 100%.

Well, those you call Buffy style rituals found in CoS are not aimed at calling upon some supernatural force sent directly from Hell, you know, Buffy style. There's an idea behind it. It has to do with mind-focusing on one thing, to create what can be easily described as the placebo-effect. In a ritual, you're using all 5 senses simultaneously, and thus exciting your brain in such a way to use as much brain power possible to focus on your ends. Have you ever heard of people who are sick, and thank to their will-power to heal, they DO heal? Or else they give-up on a common cold and never heal? It's something similar...will power. The philosophy behind it is that what is magic today, may be science tomorrow. Kind-of like Alchemy.

LOL, about the 110%, you know what I meant with that: Totally! ;) Relax man!!

rhadley
Monday, June 21st, 2004, 08:31 PM
Well, it's true that religion did bring changes in the past, but religion also sacrifices good things to promote its ideology

true, but even such change, is - well, change, part of the dialectic that we're part of.



Having read that ONA page you gave me, it reminds me a lot of the Bushido code of honour.

Excellent! There's hope yet.



Well, why is child-killing highly prohibited?

If you read through the ONA material about culling, and opfers, you'll see that those culled really choose themselves (we're talking individual culls here BTW not mass stuff through wars, terror and the like) - they're tested, and given a sporting chance. It's their defects of character - from a Satanic point of view of course - which makes them suitable as opfers. They show themselves up as worthless, or supporters of the old repressive orders.



if you're caught you're going straight to jail

In respect of doing stuff that ight lead to jail - in that case, you failed - and weren't cunning enough, clever enough or whatever. In short - we just weren't Satanic enough.

Test yourself - those who survive and flourish, evolve; those who fail, get caught, etc, fail. So what? It's a natural weeding out of the failures.



Well, those you call Buffy style rituals found in CoS are not aimed at calling upon some supernatural force sent directly from Hell, you know, Buffy style. There's an idea behind it. It has to do with mind-focusing on one thing, to create what can be easily described as the placebo-effect. In a ritual,

Yeah, yeah, whatever. Yawn... Read some ONA stuff about rituals such as:-

http://ona.apoliteia.com/guide/dure.html






LOL, about the 110%, you know what I meant with that: Totally!

Yeah, just tryin' to make a polemic here :)


Relax man!!


I'm chillin'

nachtfuerst
Friday, July 9th, 2004, 01:26 AM
test

Ewergrin
Friday, July 9th, 2004, 01:34 AM
Welcome to Blut und Boden Forum, nachtfuerst.

nachtfuerst
Friday, July 9th, 2004, 01:52 AM
Heil Wotan!
I have a one-man NSBM Band called Leichenberg and i think la vey sucks
Satanism cames from our heart. The pure Hate. Only untermenschen needs a humen who saids this is evil, this is satanism.
I hate Human, I want to kill them all.
I'm German, i wan't to speak german.
Can anyone understand german?

Ewergrin
Friday, July 9th, 2004, 02:09 AM
There are several German-speaking members here.

Mistress Klaus
Wednesday, August 11th, 2004, 12:58 PM
I understand Laveyan Satanism as a worshiping of the Self. A person who considers himself/herself to be a Levayan Satanist usually worships himself/herself.

You might be interested in reading "The Conqueror Manifesto".

Survival of the Fittest!

:smt002 Yes I was also going to post that LaVey promoted the worship & pleasure of thyself. Instead of merely worshipping a deity with sacrifice,....One should accept, demand & fulfill their lives with all the pleasures available...without guilt.
The Satanic aspect of Anton was showmanship & symbolic. I agree with his positive view of 'worshipping yourself' as in positive moves & outlook of taking FULL control of your life.

WarMaiden
Wednesday, August 11th, 2004, 04:23 PM
I have friends that are Satanists and was interested in it for a bit, but then decided it wasn't for me, nice to have you on board~

:waving

Allenson
Thursday, August 12th, 2004, 12:10 AM
Satanism and Christianity is a Judeo-intervention. So since Anton LeVey is of some Jewish blood. I call him Anton Levine lol.


Actually, you are right--that is, or was rather, his real name from what I've read....

green nationalist
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 06:48 AM
I just read some of the rubbish on the Church of Satan site, there is a 200 dollar fee to join! so if you imagine that they have 1000 members ( and Im sure they have far more than that, its nearly a quarter of a million dollars!

What the hell do they need that money for? For fancy dress costumes? Then add that to the amount of books and paraphenalia they sell and they have quite a jewish operation going on.

I am far more interested in European tradition of satanism as championed by the ONA the Black Order of prewar Germany, as I find USA satanism to be shallow, spiritualy desolate and downright cheesy!

A satanist should not adhere to any group unless they are undertaking in a project which requires more than one person. Then a commen ground needs to be found and some blueprint drawn up. Otherwise a simple reading of Nietzche, Machielvelli and Ragnar Redbeard and a apreciation of heritage should be all one needs.

Joining these groups is a cry for attention, a sacrifice of individuality and a comprimise of charachter. Satanists must work alone and in their own unique way, otherwise they are not satanists.

Taras Bulba
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 03:13 PM
Satanism now contains no rituals to speak of, it is an individual worship! Of the self and by the self!

The black mass.

Ka|ser
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 05:06 PM
I just read some of the rubbish on the Church of Satan site

...which quite explains your lack of knoweldge on Modern Satanism.


The black mass

The black mass is a Traditional Satanism ritual rather than a Modern one.

If I had to distinguish between Traditional and Modern Satanism, I would describe the former as Theistic Satanism, and the latter as Atheistic Satanism.


there is a 200 dollar fee to join! so if you imagine that they have 1000 members ( and Im sure they have far more than that, its nearly a quarter of a million dollars!

It's important to note that the Church of Satan is the only religious group in the USA to actually pay taxes, as they refused being excused from paying taxes, a privilege given to all religious groups. Hardly a Jewish decision! And by the way, seems like you only skimmed through the website, rather than read it. The $200 fee has been around for only a couple of months, as it was previously $100 since the 1960s. Plus, it also states that to be Satanist you only need to live as one. The membership is there to be able to participate in official activities promoted by the church itself.

Damn, I hate it when people blabber around without looking for some information before!

Taras Bulba
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 05:45 PM
The black mass is a Traditional Satanism ritual rather than a Modern one.

Really? I could have sworn the opposite was true during my research on Satanism I did several years ago, and all the sources I used were pro-Satanism.

I believe the modern version is basically a reverse version of the Catholic mass with the alter being a naked woman. If I remember this correctly.

Grimr
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 05:51 PM
I believe the modern version is basically a reverse version of the Catholic mass with the alter being a naked woman. If I remember this correctly.

That doesn't sound too bad...

Taras Bulba
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 05:53 PM
Sounds pathetic if you ask me. Oh well, I guess this proves Satanism is nothing more a perverted form of Catholicism because they use elements of Catholic ritual. Just like how Christianity is just a perverted form of paganism because Christian rituals bear some resemblence to pagan ones. :eyes

Ka|ser
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 06:03 PM
One must distinguish between Traditional and Modern Satanism correctly.
The Traditional Satanism basically is the "popular" version, which includes demon worship, host desacration, and to some extent a parody of the Christian Mass, popularly known as the Black Mass, which was "designed" in 1666 by Madame LaVoisin in France. This has changed considerably from those times, to truncate certain extreme elements such as fetus and animal sacrifices, sexual orgies etc. This is the form of Satanism which includes Christian belief, and I think that it's just a form of "cult" for opressed christians. I strongly condemn this form of Satanism.

The Modern Satanism is a, basically, Atheistic system of belief which makes the individual at the centre of importance. I am my own god, my past, my future etc. For a basic idea of what a Satanist does, try reading The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey. It does include a form of ritual, which also includes a naked woman as an altar, but the said book has some explanations of these rituals and their aim. I also recommend a book called "Where Science and Magic Meet", by Serena Roney-Dougal. This is my form of Satanism. It's also interesting to note that there are versions of modern Satanism as much as there are Satanist, so it's hard to kind of draw a line around it.

green nationalist
Thursday, August 26th, 2004, 07:26 AM
QUOTE=Ka|ser]It's also interesting to note that there are versions of modern Satanism as much as there are Satanist, so it's hard to kind of draw a line around it.[/QUOTE]
very well put,


however when the COS is asking for 200 dollars to gain membership i am tempted to say stick it up your ..... you would imply they need 200 dollars to pay taxes? But you dont pay tax unless you are making money. COS is a buisness venture, nothing more, nothing less.

And to participate in thier rituals? c'mon now, this aint rosmarys baby this is the real deal. I beleive Satanic ritual should be preformed alone or else with a single partner, but to put yourself into a system of ritual created by COS is ridiculous. Anathma to the satanic concept really!

You go be a hollywood star, ill stick with my old European values and laugh at you

Each to thier own i suppose.

And i have read on the COS before, i have been a satanist for 10 years reading up on alot of muck, and i can see a fake when its looking me in the face.

Ka|ser
Thursday, August 26th, 2004, 11:10 AM
As I already said, if you don't want to pay the $200, don't, there's no need...I didn't! Do I consider myself a Satanist? Sure! Did I help the business venture, as you said? Not at all!
As I also already said, there are as many versions of Satanism as much as there are Satanists, which makes the value of individualism stand out in Satanism. Some people prefer performing rituals alone, other in groups. Some people have preferences according to the specific ritual. Who are you to say that "Satanic ritual should be preformed alone or else with a single partner". If feel comfortable doing so, so be it! I'm not you!!

Satanism is a religion based on materialism, on self-gratification. Do you expect the CoS to sacrifice their lives to lead the "venture" for nothing. Now THAT's Satanic Anathema.

Lack of religious tollerance is the most arrongant thing ever seen on the face of the world. If I think that an "American created" religion is compatible with my point of view, I don't know who you are to laugh at me. In fact, I will be the one laughing at someone who, for the sake of "European identity", submits himself to some imaginary friend!! I laugh at you becuase you stick to your European idenity to choose your religion, as instead of using your brains and move towards your compatible system of beliefs, who are conditioned by an area!


And i have read on the COS before, i have been a satanist for 10 years reading up on alot of muck, and i can see a fake when its looking me in the face.
Good, so if you have read about CoS and didn't like it, don't become a Satanist, 'cause you don't feel you're compatible with it. I respect that! You can be a bloody Christian if you want to, as long as you really believe in it. But critisizing someone else's just because it's different is the most stupid thing you could ever do.

green nationalist
Friday, August 27th, 2004, 07:58 AM
Lack of religious tollerance is the most arrongant thing ever seen on the face of the world. If I think that an "American created" religion is compatible with my point of view, I don't know who you are to laugh at me. In fact, I will be the one laughing at someone who, for the sake of "European identity", submits himself to some imaginary friend!! I laugh at you becuase you stick to your European idenity to choose your religion, as instead of using your brains and move towards your compatible system of beliefs, who are conditioned by an area!


Good, so if you have read about CoS and didn't like it, don't become a Satanist, 'cause you don't feel you're compatible with it. I respect that! You can be a bloody Christian if you want to, as long as you really believe in it. But critisizing someone else's just because it's different is the most stupid thing you could ever do.
So then, you as a satanist would never criticise a christians belief then as it would be the most stupid and intolerent thing to do?

Dont get me wrong friend, we are on the same side, I feel however that Levey satanism is designed to con those who are intrested in learning more about this way of life or worldview, as i would not call it a religion.

Satanism is about smashing sacred cows, questioning taboos, forging ones own path in the sceme of things, how then would one subscribe to a dogma such as leveys or anyone else for that matter?

Sure if these church leaders wish to publish their experiences and we should feel the need to share with them these experiences fair enough! But lets not subscribe to every last word and dogma that they spit out! And certainly lets not "Donate" our hard earned cash to their bank account so they can live cushy lives in hollywood after conning us out of our bodies, mind, souls and money.

As I said, I am in this a long time and i used to believe the infallibility of COS but as the years roll by I can see now, that they are the predators and we, as the interested would be Satanists, are the prey.

We should work alone, for own agendas, for our own goals, by our own means and usher in the personal liberation and expression that TRUE satanism is all about.

Jack
Friday, August 27th, 2004, 08:10 AM
"My invisible friend is more powerful than your invisible friend" :P

Question: Do we live in this temporal world, or not?

green nationalist
Friday, August 27th, 2004, 08:17 AM
"My invisible friend is more powerful than your invisible friend" :P

Question: Do we live in this temporal world, or not?
We live here, and it is temporal, and satan does not exist it is a worldview and mindset, therefore it is more powerfull than your unconstructive sarcasm.

Ka|ser
Friday, August 27th, 2004, 01:45 PM
What you are saying is 100, no 110% true if, and only if, a guy, out of the blues, buys the Satanic Bible and dicides to convert by taking every idea and live it, that is, force himself into the ideology. Of course, that's stupid, and is at the same level as any other religion. These poeple make LaVey a Christ figure. But this is NOT Satanism! As LaVey himself haid, that would make them, at most, Satanic!

Being a Satanist does not involve adulation, worship or any rules for that matter!! Calling yourself a Satanist is merely a label. I know people who seem like they memorised the Satanic Bible when they speak, when in fact they never even saw one. Are they not Satanists? It's like saying that you believe in God and Jesus was his only son, turn the other cheek bla bla, and say you're not a Christian! You are, just that you don't accept the label. I did!



as i would not call it a religion.
I don't know if i should call it a religion or not! It's a religion in that it has an organisation and a book which supports the belief. I call it an anti-religion as it challenges and critisizes all the rest. Also, rather than a system of beliefs in a deity/ies and a whole score of myths and characters, it's a way of life. I consider it to be a selection of past philosophies, from which the required points are taken, and mixed together to form Satanic philosophy. So I think it's a cross between the two.

Ka|ser
Friday, August 27th, 2004, 02:03 PM
I can see now, that they are the predators and we, as the interested would be Satanists, are the prey.
I would only give out $200 if I was comfortable of giving them. I consider those to work hard to get those $200 as weak, and very unSatanic for that matter! And probably yes, CoS takes an advantage an these people. Why not, who's wiser will win in the end! CoS says that $200 will make you a registered member of CoS, and give you a card and whatnot! Do you NEED that card to be a Satanist? Not at all! I would say that 70% of those who DO het the membership are completely unSatanic and have not grasped the idea of the ideology! I am my God, and I do anything just for ME! Now if you sacrificed you hard-earned money, just to get the membership, you're just showing how stupid you are! But are CoS gonna refuse this money just because it's not given to them by a Satanist? As if! They're not dumb!! I don't afford $200 for a card right now, so I'm not gonna give them out!

A hunter is usually the strongest, and the prey the weakest. Act like the hunter, not the prey!

Ah and bdw! I'm a Satanist, not a CoS fanatic! CoS are the only organisation who actually advocate this ideology, and that's why I defend them! Being a Satanist does not involve any CoS fanaticism! You can still be a Satanist and a CoS-sceptic.

green nationalist
Thursday, September 2nd, 2004, 06:09 PM
Ah and bdw! I'm a Satanist, not a CoS fanatic! CoS are the only organisation who actually advocate this ideology, and that's why I defend them! Being a Satanist does not involve any CoS fanaticism! You can still be a Satanist and a CoS-sceptic.
Well I shall be the satanist who has no respect for the church of satan then,

there are many other organisations such as the ONA, Black order and many other secretive ones which is the ideal way i think, clandestine groups.

Ka|ser
Thursday, September 2nd, 2004, 06:19 PM
Well, as far as I know, ONA is a Traditional Satanism group, so it can't be considered a CoS clandestine group. There are splinter groups who have been created following either a disagreement with CoS (Temple of Set), or else even people like you who think that CoS has become a carnival or/and business (First Church of Satan).
Of course, every splinter group has different line of thought from the original CoS. Temple of Set for example, live a Satanic life in the lines of CoS, however believe in the actual existence of a deity called Set, who can easily be compared to Satan. First Church of Satan claim to revive the original CoS metality before it became a carnival. Another group, called Church of Lucifer, is very similar to CoS, but from what I've read about them (i.e. not much) seems like they're more into mysticism. Give them a look!

WotansKrieger
Tuesday, March 29th, 2005, 05:40 AM
Individualism is the death of our heritage. That is what satanism promptes individualism, the "stomp on others" "Im #1" attitudes. Its a tottaly modern and destructive point of view.

Banehogg
Monday, October 31st, 2005, 12:48 AM
Luciferianism in the old egyptian way, actually do have some of the same conepts as Paganism/Heathendom, so I would consider Lucifer is Odin, Odin is Lucifer. The way one chooses to see this is all about ones own personality. Also this has been fit into the culture of the land where the beliefs were originated, thus the way of seeing Lucifer/Odin were different in some ways, but very alike in other ways. So I would consider Luciferianism Satanism, and Satanism Luciferianism.
This is my theory, anyway.

Sigurd
Monday, October 31st, 2005, 12:53 AM
All-father is not a materialistic hedonist. Full stop.

Heidenlord
Monday, October 31st, 2005, 02:34 PM
All-father is not a materialistic hedonist. Full stop.

Hear! Hear!

I would rather live next door to christians than people who take Lavey seriously!

All the Satanic Bible is the negro "F*** you, I'ma getting mine!" from ther perspective of a 140IQ jew. It is the creed of assholes, hedionist, sex fiends, drug addicts, homosexuals, ect...

While Christianity does place a lot of value on the individual to the detriment of society sometimes, Anton took the self-concern levels to hideous new heights.

Lavey was a Jewish carnival worker and I will never take any type of religious tips from a jewish con man.

Blutwölfin
Monday, October 31st, 2005, 02:50 PM
You probably got Sigurd wrong, Heidenlord. He referred to Banehogg who compared Lucifer with Odin and Sigurd stated that Odin ("Allfather") is NOT materialistic (like Lucifer is...).

Blutwölfin
Monday, October 31st, 2005, 02:56 PM
All the Satanic Bible is the negro "F*** you, I'ma getting mine!" from ther perspective of a 140IQ jew. It is the creed of assholes, hedionist, sex fiends, drug addicts, homosexuals, ect...

While Christianity does place a lot of value on the individual to the detriment of society sometimes, Anton took the self-concern levels to hideous new heights.

Lavey was a Jewish carnival worker and I will never take any type of religious tips from a jewish con man.

I would have chosen other words, but actually you're right.

In fact I think it's most funny that people adoring Satan hate the church at the same time. They've stolen all their rituals and just turned them upside down. LaVey and some other Satanists say "Be your own God" - but how can you be a god when you still have to praise other ones (Satan, in this case)?

No evil without good, Satanism is just another invention of the Jewish suppressors to balance the so called power of their god. Who supports LaVey'an Satanism, supports the church, feeds their wealth and underlines their values.

Banehogg
Monday, October 31st, 2005, 04:42 PM
The Luciferian "Luciferianism" is very much older than cristianity, and has nothing to do with it. Please don't comment my theory unless you have knowledge on the subject.

Blutwölfin
Monday, October 31st, 2005, 04:58 PM
So, how old is it? And what is the source of that age?
By the way: Lucifer is a latin word and was first mentioned in the bible.

And: I can comment whatever I want. If you post your theory in a forum you have to deal with other opinions. A forum (which is also a latin word, by the way) is a place for discussions.

In Norse mythology it's probably Loki who represents some "satanic" characteristics; in Egypt it was Isis.

Banehogg
Monday, October 31st, 2005, 05:00 PM
It has existed since the birth of ancient egypt. And the word Lucifer (the light bringer) is set later. The pre-name was EA / ENKI.

Blutwölfin
Monday, October 31st, 2005, 05:02 PM
It has existed since the birth of ancient egypt. And the word Lucifer (the light bringer) is set later. The pre-name was EA / ENKI.


Please elaborate your source. Thank you.

Heidenlord
Monday, October 31st, 2005, 09:03 PM
No evil without good, Satanism is just another invention of the Jewish suppressors to balance the so called power of their god. Who supports LaVey'an Satanism, supports the church, feeds their wealth and underlines their values.


Yes, two sides of the same coin.
I am of the opinion that traditional devil worship was really christians persercuting people who were still practicing some watered down version of a previous heathen right that had nothing to do with Satan at all.


Btw BW, i think you were right. I did misunderstand him, but my 2nd meaning of his sentence is somewhat appropriate even though Odin sometimes could be tricky and at least once as evil with the name Bolverkr as I am sure that you are well aware of and could probably teach a class on the subject.

Thulean Imperial Inquisitor
Sunday, November 6th, 2005, 02:36 PM
What an interesting discussion. This subject is something I have been pondering for some time. I have studied varius form of Satanism for the past year or so and I have discarded what I thought unsuitable or did not feel "right" with regards to the advancement of the self and the protection of my race.

There are very many ideas and diffrent explanations on what who Satan and what Satanism is. I think Satan is a force with a thousand names.

The origins of Satan do not seem to be Jewish. Of course the Judaic dualism of Good vs. Evil is stolen from Persian mythology, the Persian prophet and mystic Zoraster set forth the dualism idea, or so I read in a text by Kerry Bolton.


..and also incorrectly - the figure of Satan Himself is commonly held to derive from the religion described in the Hebrew 'Old Testament', with the word "Satan" being regarded as derived from the Hebrew word for "accuser". In fact, the Hebrew word is itself derived from another word - an ancient Greek one. This Greek word - http://www.blutundboden.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=486&stc=1&d=1131287453 an is - that is, 'an accusation', [See, for example, its use by Aeschylus - aitiau ekho.] and also 'cause' or 'foundation' or 'origin' of some-thing. In essence, Satan as a word represents (a) the prime cause of change, of human evolution; (b) 'Adversary' in the sense of opposing norm, the accepted, and this sense is still retained in the usage of 'Devil' (e.g. Devil's Advocate). The word 'Devil' is derived from the Greek word - http://www.blutundboden.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=487&stc=1&d=1131287603 - via the Latin "diabolus". The figure of Satan is thus seen to be not a Hebrew invention, as hitherto supposed, but in fact a representation of opposition, of Heresy: and a symbol of creative change.
From opposition there is a synthesis - the process of dialectical change which governs evolution.

http://www.blutundboden.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=488&stc=1&d=1131287603entid=2592&stc=1&d=1131209479

More on the origins of Satan/Satanism, this is from Kerry Bolton I think.


Since the Hebrew culture is an amalgam and adaptation of the various cultures encountered by the Hebrews, its should not be a surprise if "Satan" in NOT of Hebrew origin. The English "traditional Satanists" The Order of Nine Angles (who promote National Socialism as embodying our Aeonic destiny) trace the etymology of "Satan" to Greek, meaning "an accusation ([greek lettering unavailable]) from whence the Hebrew Satan, "the accuser". (It might be relevant to mention that the Grand Master of the ONA prior to the current one is a scholar who has translated several of the Greek classics). Others connect "Satan" to the Indo-Aryan SAT, the Dark entropic force infusing Nature (somewhat reminiscent of the recently discovered "dark mass" that physicists say permeates the cosmos). Many, probably most cultures have equivalents of this Dark Force. It is manifest in the creative/destructive power of SHIVA, and the cosmic interplay of Shakti/Shiva. It is represented in the Norse myth of Ragnarok where the dark hordes of Loki, Fenrir, et al. instigate the cosmic cataclysm which clears the way for a new cosmic order: a cyclic process of Creation/Destruction/Renewal, without which there would be stasis and decay.


According to the Judeo-Christians Satanism is really following every other god or philosophy than Christianity, so according to the Judeo-Christians any other deity than their God (Jah, Jehova) is just another image of Satan. The Jews called every other god than Jehova, Satan for example; Baphomet an old desert fertility god became Satan. So one looking from a Judeo-Cristian window could see for example Norse Asatru or Greek mythology as Satanism.

To better explain who Satan is to the Judeo-Christians I will translate an article I wrote about the subject in Icelandic:

Why SaTan is the best thing that ever crossed the path of mankind

An old fable of a desert tribe of former slaves tells of the creation of mankind and the lives of the first human beings in their paradise, garden of Eden. In the garden of Eden man lived in endless equality and simplicity, carefree and unencumbered. Nothing really changed and all remained still. One day there was finally change, a serpent met the female human and the serpent bid her to take a bite of the forbidden fruit of the tree of wisdom. The female could not resist the serpents offer and ate the forbidden fruit. Thereof ended the so-called paradise of human kind.

The best thing that ever happened to man, happened at that moment. The forbidden fruit grew from the tree of wisdom and thus brought the human wisdom. He was not anymore an unconscious unworried animal that lived in eternal (purposeless) existence of the equality of the garden of Eden. Man became a beast that had to work to survive; he obtained desires and pleasures. Desires and pleasures of sexual arousal and creation (sex is creation and creation is sex). Creation is the greatest excitation of the human; art , science - all expression is creation; everyone enjoys creation in every possible form; sonic, visual, texture. Graphic art, literature, architecture, music and so the list goes on; all is this the product of the creativity of mankind; everyone creates in some way.

In the eyes of the eastern tribe and the followers of their morale the bite of the forbidden fruit was the worst thing ever to happen to humanity. In their eyes it was a demonic sin. In the religion of this tribe it would seem that creation and the joys of it are bad, it is defined as evil; sexual desires, pride and the creation of a higher forms of life are evil. They believe it is evil be cause it goes against their demiurge: Jehova. It would seem that their wish has always been that mankind had remained an ignorant animal wich obeys the great tribal god. Why this weird desert tribe wants to worship a god of imposition, ascendence and monopoly is a question wich the followers of the serpent have been asking themselves for a long time. According to the slave tribe, the serpent was and is the worst form of existence there is thinkable.

But the serpent was and is the true savior; he freed mankind from ignorance and slavery; he broke the chains the evil tribal demiurge had put on the human being; he forged man into a natural creating beast; but it had been a pitiful domesticated animal of the subordinate deity. The Serpent: the lifegiving force with a thousand names is probably best known under the name Satan. Every man should thank him and worship; for he is the force of creation; he is the freedom, the glory, and the power; the pleasure, the work and the joy.

Hail to the clever serpent wich freed us from the animal-cage and false-paradise Eden! HAIL SATAN!

--

It should be clear now that in my view Satanism is a path of creation, change, and joy. This also seem to be what the writers of varius Satanism movements have come to conclusion.



Now there is modern Satanism; LaVeyan and Setian. To those orders Satanism is not a religion but a way of life or a philosophy. A philosophy that rejects Judeo-Christian values like; "all men are equal". Many parts of the LaVeyian/Setian philosophy are not unlike National Socialism, based on the laws of nature; "The strong dominate the weak, the clever dominate the strong". But there are also Jewish aspects in modern Satanism that do not comply with National Socialism, aspects like; all the self-gratifacation, rejection of family values, back-stabbing, individualism.

Also we have Order of Nine Angels type of Satanism, wich seems modern but claims to have excisted for many centuries; called traditional Satanism. ONA Satanism has many thins simelar with LeVeyian/Setian Satanism but is without the Jewish aspects. ONA is more about Strength & Honour and strive to create a higher being; the Ubermensch.

So it seems to me, of all the diffrent forms of Satanism, ONA Satanism is the most like National Socialism. Some people have even said that ONA Satanism is just National Socialism disguised as an Occult path.

But then, what is National Socialism?

In my mind National Socialism has a lot to do with the nature of the nordish folk. Since National Socialism is a life affirming creed built on the laws of nature, where the strong survive and the weak perish. National Socialism affirms that the purpose of life is contributing to evolution in a positive way and that we contribute to evolution when we do our duty to our folk, since our folk (our race and culture) is our connection to Nature: how Nature is manifest in us as human beings!

National Socialism sees the nation, the folk, as a living organism, a body. And National Socialisms wants that body to be healthy. National Socialism wants to strengthen the body, make if more fit and greater. National Socialism is also, just like Satanism about making the individual stronger and enjoying life.

What we need to do, is to combine all life-affirming forces, undir wich name does not matter. As long as the forces seek to create a stronger, purer folkish society as a base and conquer the galaxy from thereon! May our spirit guide us in the journey to the stars! Hail Victory!