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View Full Version : There is no point in talking about the "White race" when Nordics and Alpines belong to different species



Reason Power
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 08:33 PM
Carleton Coon already made it clear that the only pure homo sapiens are the Mediterraneans (and of course then the Nordics, that are a mixture of Danubian and Corded Mediterraneans).
Alpines and Borrebies are closer to mongoloids than to mediterraneans since they are Sapiens/Neanthertal mixes.
This may all be seen quite clearly in this grafic representation.

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/bilder/troe-fig30.jpg

There is no point in talking about race when Nordics and Alpines belong to different species. Beign Alpines and Borrebies thus obviously much closer to Mongoloids than to Mediterraneans.

Quotes from Coon´s "Races of Europe":

"During the Pleistocene period there were several species of primates which had attained some degree of human culture, by the acquisition of stone implements, of fire, and of speech. In the present post-glacial or interglacial period, in conformity with the general reduction in faunal varieties, man has been reduced to a single species, unique in a single genus. During the Pleistocene one species, at least, had developed in the manner of a foetalized terrestrial ape, and it is that species which carries today the main stem of Homo sapiens. Other species, including the fossil men of Java, of Peking, and Homo neanderthalensis, had developed at the same time into a heavier, hypermasculine endocrine form, with a luxuriance of jaws, teeth, and bony crests."


"We propose to demonstrate that these non-foetalized species did not wholly die out, but that at least one of them was absorbed into the main human stem, at some time during the Middle, or the initial part of the Late, Pleistocene. From this amalgamation was produced the large, rugged, and relatively un-foetalized group of Upper Palaeolithic men in Europe, North Africa, and northern Asia. This type of man passed over Bering Straits in early post-glacial times, if not earlier, to provide the basic ge-netic stock from which the American Indian developed, in combination with later arrivals. From a branch of this hyperborean group there evolved, in northern Asia, the ancestral strain of the entire specialized mongoloid family."

"The occupation of all arable lands, and those suitable for grazing, was not completed in a century. or in a millennium; the process was a gradual one, and the withdrawal of the earlier inhabitants into environmentally protected fastnesses equally gradual. The entry of food-producers from Asia and Africa did not take a single route or involve a single people; it was a complex sequence of migrations through several ports of entry. The various strains of food-producers mixed with the food-gatherers whom they encountered, and with each other, until, in our own time, not a single group of complete food-gatherers has remained in white man's territory."

"The food-producers seem to have been variants on one central racial theme, the basic Mediterranean. This basic Mediterranean stock varied in many respects, especially in stature and in pigmentation, but in its essential qualities, which segregated it from non-whites, it was remarkably uniform. We do not know that the survivors of the food-gatherers whom the Mediterranean food-producers absorbed were white in soft-part morphology, and there is some evidence that some had begun to evolve in a mongoloid, others perhaps in a negroid, direction. Such variations may be seen within the present composite white racial amalgam."

"At any rate, the main conclusion of this study will be that the present races of Europe are derived from a blend of (A), food-producing peoples from Asia and Africa, of basically Mediterranean racial form, with (B), the descendants of interglacial and glacial food-gatherers, produced in turn by a blending of basic Homo sapiens, related to the remote ancestor of the Mediterraneans, with some non-sapiens species of general Neanderthaloid form. The actions and interactions of environment, selection, migration, and human culture upon the various entities within this amalgam, have produced the white race in its present complexity."

SouthernBoy
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 10:57 PM
I think you are misinterpreting Coon's data.

Awar
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 11:06 PM
Coon is outdated. Especially in that part.

QuietWind
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 06:28 PM
Reason Power is new here, so he probably doen't realize that most of us don't call it the "white race" in the first place and if we do use the term "white" we put it in nice little quotes. :) In America, the White race constitutes all peoples of European, Middle Eastern, and North African descent.....

Anyhow, seeing that Reason Power is anti-woman, then nothing I have to say in this thread is of any importance to him. :)

Test
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 06:51 PM
Coon is outdated.
On the genetic side, there is no evidence of admixture between Europeans and Neanderthals. It's statistically impossible to not find admixture gene-wise if there was extensuve admixture. They found Neanderthal mtDNA and was unlike anything found in moderns of any kind. There is a separation of 500,000 years in the last common ancestor.
There is also an almost complete lack of transitional/hybrid forms, save one ambiguous boy's remains. I see a slight resemblance in Caucasians and Neanderthals in the tendency towards long-headedness and prominent noses and browage, but not in the forehead or chin area. This could be convergence because other non-Euro/Middle Eastern populations also have this, such as Papuans.

I personally think Coon is wrong, though at the time without the later findings in various disciplines, he was a trailblazer.

SouthernBoy
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 06:52 PM
The first part is different species have an inability to breed. The second thing is there has been little substantial evidence to prove that Homo neanderthalensis and Homo sapiens interbreed, or were even able to. I think that Coon's theory of "Mediterranean Unity" is too simple. I am sure that both Mediterranids and Nordids are closer to Mongoloids than Cro-Magnids are, they are far more ancient.

Awar
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 07:47 PM
I am sure that both Mediterranids and Nordids are closer to Mongoloids than Cro-Magnids are, they are far more ancient.

I don't understand what you mean.

Test
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 08:09 PM
The first part is different species have an inability to breed. The second thing is there has been little substantial evidence to prove that Homo neanderthalensis and Homo sapiens interbreed, or were even able to.

I think that Coon's theory of "Mediterranean Unity" is too simple.
Yes, it's pretty clear from what we know now that each type is formed out of complex interactions between populations. There is only recently admixed and more ancient, established populations.


I am sure that both Mediterranids and Nordids are closer to Mongoloids than Cro-Magnids are, they are far more ancient.
From what we know now of the Cro-Magnons, they were a northern pan-Siberian race (the most physically distinguished from the other types in the ousth.. who all basically looked the same). This makes sense since they were the only group to venture into truly cold weather. They were big and fully modern, though still primitive in some traits. They no longer exist as a population, but submerged in Western and Eastern Eurasia in various degrees. Meds and Nords and Mongoloids are "neo" races that didn't appear until recently.

Mac Seafraidh
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 11:51 PM
This thesis is meant to abominate Caucasioid man more than it has already been destructed. Now, I have said many times I do not say white anymore or at least not try to for the most part because it is the Jew that has inserted himself in our label. All the Volk must stop calling themselves White.If not, you almost are a Jew. I am sorry to say that to all of you. One must look at this and notice. They have written themselves in our statistics, which is pretty much like erasing someone out of your family. What I am trying to say is. The Jewish Man has made life THIS WAY!!!

Northern Paladin
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 11:59 PM
"Alpines and Borrebies are closer to mongoloids than to mediterraneans since they are Sapiens/Neanthertal mixes."

This is simply absurd.

SouthernBoy
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 01:48 AM
From what we know now of the Cro-Magnons, they were a northern pan-Siberian race (the most physically distinguished from the other types in the ousth.. who all basically looked the same). This makes sense since they were the only group to venture into truly cold weather. They were big and fully modern, though still primitive in some traits. They no longer exist as a population, but submerged in Western and Eastern Eurasia in various degrees. Meds and Nords and Mongoloids are "neo" races that didn't appear until recently.
I wouldn't say Siberian, they certainly came from Central Asia, but I doubt their above average height and dolichocephaly, several types, could have occured in the extreme cold. They also had long arms, I believe, which is against a certain rule for development of body proportions in cold climates, name?.
Europeans and Asians both seem to have inherited significant ancestry, in Northern areas, from upper paleolithic survivors. I believe it is more masked in Asians, perhaps not so in Chukchi?, than it is in Europeans. There are several areas where paleolithic descendants, not truly populations, seem to be significant in Europe. Do you know of any specific markers that can be traced to paleolithic survivors?

Awar
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 01:58 AM
He says pan-Siberian because the CroMags followed animal herds and hunted them.
In any case, everyone is an Upper-Palaeolithic survivor, but we call UP's only those Europid types which retained some of those archaic qualities. There's no real reason not to label a world multitude of other archaic types in the world as UP's.

Northern Paladin
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 04:21 AM
White simply means Europid. And yes it is a race.

Polak
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 12:51 PM
Carleton Coon already made it clear that the only pure homo sapiens are the Mediterraneans (and of course then the Nordics, that are a mixture of Danubian and Corded Mediterraneans).
Alpines and Borrebies are closer to mongoloids than to mediterraneans since they are Sapiens/Neanthertal mixes.
This may all be seen quite clearly in this grafic representation.

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/bilder/troe-fig30.jpg

There is no point in talking about race when Nordics and Alpines belong to different species. Beign Alpines and Borrebies thus obviously much closer to Mongoloids than to Mediterraneans.

Quotes from Coon´s "Races of Europe":

"During the Pleistocene period there were several species of primates which had attained some degree of human culture, by the acquisition of stone implements, of fire, and of speech. In the present post-glacial or interglacial period, in conformity with the general reduction in faunal varieties, man has been reduced to a single species, unique in a single genus. During the Pleistocene one species, at least, had developed in the manner of a foetalized terrestrial ape, and it is that species which carries today the main stem of Homo sapiens. Other species, including the fossil men of Java, of Peking, and Homo neanderthalensis, had developed at the same time into a heavier, hypermasculine endocrine form, with a luxuriance of jaws, teeth, and bony crests."


"We propose to demonstrate that these non-foetalized species did not wholly die out, but that at least one of them was absorbed into the main human stem, at some time during the Middle, or the initial part of the Late, Pleistocene. From this amalgamation was produced the large, rugged, and relatively un-foetalized group of Upper Palaeolithic men in Europe, North Africa, and northern Asia. This type of man passed over Bering Straits in early post-glacial times, if not earlier, to provide the basic ge-netic stock from which the American Indian developed, in combination with later arrivals. From a branch of this hyperborean group there evolved, in northern Asia, the ancestral strain of the entire specialized mongoloid family."

"The occupation of all arable lands, and those suitable for grazing, was not completed in a century. or in a millennium; the process was a gradual one, and the withdrawal of the earlier inhabitants into environmentally protected fastnesses equally gradual. The entry of food-producers from Asia and Africa did not take a single route or involve a single people; it was a complex sequence of migrations through several ports of entry. The various strains of food-producers mixed with the food-gatherers whom they encountered, and with each other, until, in our own time, not a single group of complete food-gatherers has remained in white man's territory."

"The food-producers seem to have been variants on one central racial theme, the basic Mediterranean. This basic Mediterranean stock varied in many respects, especially in stature and in pigmentation, but in its essential qualities, which segregated it from non-whites, it was remarkably uniform. We do not know that the survivors of the food-gatherers whom the Mediterranean food-producers absorbed were white in soft-part morphology, and there is some evidence that some had begun to evolve in a mongoloid, others perhaps in a negroid, direction. Such variations may be seen within the present composite white racial amalgam."

"At any rate, the main conclusion of this study will be that the present races of Europe are derived from a blend of (A), food-producing peoples from Asia and Africa, of basically Mediterranean racial form, with (B), the descendants of interglacial and glacial food-gatherers, produced in turn by a blending of basic Homo sapiens, related to the remote ancestor of the Mediterraneans, with some non-sapiens species of general Neanderthaloid form. The actions and interactions of environment, selection, migration, and human culture upon the various entities within this amalgam, have produced the white race in its present complexity."


Terrible post.

Please do some more recent reading (such as on this forum) and then try again.