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Odin Biggles
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 05:48 PM
Would you prefer yourself as a Hitler, Lenin, Stalin etc or one of the mass following them ?

Odin Biggles
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 05:53 PM
I would be a follower.

I can make passionate rants about things but i doubt anyone would be crazy enough to follow me, into battle or politics :D.

It is the followers who put the leader in power, and help maintain the organisation also.

Plus being a follower you can stay in the shadows, while a leader would be a prime target for assasination by enemies or disgruntled members.

Evolved
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 06:05 PM
There doesn't exist currently anyone I feel is worthy of following. On the other hand there are very few people I consider worth of my leadership. ;)

Blood_Axis
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 06:13 PM
I have always had been more of an "observer" than a follower ;)

I belong neither in the follower mass nor in the leader's chair.

I prefer to be "hidden" in the background and observe, learn and evolve, and stir some subtle upheaval, whenever needed, to keep things going :suspect :idiot

As the Monty Pythons say:

Adapt, adopt and improve! :D

Oskorei
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 06:47 PM
Like most people who are into totalitarianism, I fool myself by thinking that I would be one of the leaders ;)

Phlegethon
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 06:48 PM
I am both, and I guess almost everyone else is, too. If you want to lead the first thing you have to learn is to obey.

nordic_canadian_male
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 07:35 PM
Why be a follower when the leader gets all the glory.

Test
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 07:52 PM
I'm definitely not a follower. It's against my very being. But I've never been a leader. I opt for the third choice: nomadic dissenter.

I don't want to follow anyone or lead anyone either.. Isn't that the way of the natural man, to be neither swayed nor dominant? Taoism says so at least.

Phlegethon
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 07:56 PM
Most of those who always fantasize about being leaders are those least qualified for that role.

Phlegethon
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 08:18 PM
Feel free to follow me. ;)

Frans_Jozef
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 08:30 PM
Most of those who always fantasize about being leaders are those least qualified for that role.

When chasing opposite parties finally break down, it's your time to stand up, draw your chair neatly under the table, pay your bills and fling the waitress a fair tip, then you walk calmly over the battered street.

Before that, a simple observation, a bird picking seeds and crumbs from the earth, staggering around and whistling in disdain when his choice proved to be a sour experience, incite enough musings to unlock oneself of an unsuitable framework and glide off to other worlds and find enlightenment...
A leader and a follower are alike, pawns of circulating penury of character.

Phlegethon
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 09:02 PM
Could you rephrase that in a preferably less metaphorical/allegorical sentence?

Johannes de León
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 10:56 PM
I am both, and I guess almost everyone else is, too. If you want to lead the first thing you have to learn is to obey. Wise words. :)

Blood_Axis
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 12:02 PM
Most of those who always fantasize about being leaders are those least qualified for that role.Yes, that is the wisest thing said yet in this thread :thumbsup

IMO, if you are a born leader it will come out naturally, sooner or later, without any conscious effort.
For one thing, the leadership trait will be first recognized and acknowledged by the others, before you have even realized yourself! :goldcup

If you catch yourself "fantasizing" about it, the you most probably are just another :sheep amonsgt the herd that suffers from delusions of grandeur and Napoleonean complexes! :fnap: :fhhorse:

Seriously now, the concepts of followers and leaders are interdependent.
Without followers there would be no leaders and vice versa.

The follower has to be very careful as to whom he chooses to follow.

The follower in some respects is more powerful than the leader, since it is him that creates and empowers the leader and it is him that sustains him in that position. :fobey:

It is wrong to believe that the leader gets all the "glory". The leader is instead the bearer of the highest responsibilities, and he will be the one that History puts the blame for all failures, whether or not they are his own fault.

Therefore, one should think twice before considering himself to be a leader, and not be blinded by his own drive for the 15 minutes of fame.
Not everyone is able to bear such responsibility. :coach

My heart aches for the fact that no serious political or ideological progress has ever been made in Greece, because the deranged, deluded, ego-inflated retards have been eternally consuming themselves in the fights for the leadership :hammer

That is the curse that haunts us.

If you can't handle the game, don't play it.

Phlegethon
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 12:49 PM
Most "leaders" I know (we prefer the term "chairman" for good reason) are leaders against their will, anyway; basically because they have the necessary technical qualification for the job but lack charisma and the obviously required narcisstic personality structure.

Blood_Axis
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 01:25 PM
Most "leaders" I know (we prefer the term "chairman" for good reason) are leaders against their will, anyway; basically because they have the necessary technical qualification for the job but lack charisma and the obviously required narcisstic personality structure.
I agree.

I believe that leaders, in the genuine sense, have been extinct today. Now, leaders are nothing more than the mirror of that reflects the wishes of the the ruling lobby, a mere administrative tool in the hands of the secret "elite".

Take Bush for instance! :ape

They have no opinion for themselves whatsoever, and they just carry out as puppets what they are told. Who is making the actual decisions, we will never be sure of.

Phlegethon
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 01:42 PM
Bush does not even have the technical requirements for such a position, being an illiterate, imbecilic cokehead and drunkard with significant motorical problems to boot.

By Hedwig's definition I am a leader, I guess. I prefer to see myself as the head clerk, though. ;)

Blood_Axis
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 02:04 PM
Bush does not even have the technical requirements for such a position, being an illiterate, imbecilic cokehead and drunkard with significant motorical problems to boot.

I concur :thumbsup

Jack
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 04:34 PM
Give me all the power, and none of the responsibility ;)

Whatever. I do what has to be done. I don't want fame or power or any of that. I'd just rather live life my own way.

Frans_Jozef
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 09:48 PM
Could you rephrase that in a preferably less metaphorical/allegorical sentence?

Aww, but a allegory invites somebody to sit down, it dandles the mind and a second of contemplation brings to fruition meaning and substance, whereas spelling everything out reduces knowledge to seizeable binary code, smarties for the mind but it provides no answers that fuels the heart of people to any persuasion. A persuasion that positions the individual in an order of existence.

Blood_Axis is right in her analysis that leaders and followers are interdependent, but she agrees on this naturalistic scope as everyone else that there's an imperative necessity to have a leadership and revisionist upgrade of the follower, and that's where I depart, of course. :P ;)

Leaders and followers are indeed alike, pawns of circulating penury of character.
Followers are nestlings who refute to fly off of the bird's nest. They extract meaning, importance and power by the very same subjugation to the leader, who directs, charms up and evokes a destiny and home-felt sentiments in the masses, but this reciprocal identification is a false completion. There's no catharsis and spiritual elevation of the "follower", unlike the gnostic volunteer(the correct term excapes me now) who becomes a mature, autarkic being.
The leader is more priest than initiation master and unlike the latter, he persist in staying on the foreground and he expects an universal and eternal glorification of his being, the predicate is swallowed up by the individual, they have become indistinguishable and henceforth no one else is entitled to bear this title, unless as a quivering pale shadow.
A master would retire in the shadows of caverns, once his job is over.
The leader's image is recorded, transmitted and all-permeating, he binds society but not for the purpose to help people coming in terms with oneself, to excel where other generations failed...the evocation is pure manipulation, to stir and check the sentiments which will be re-routed to the leader who lives, say: vegetates, on this repeated affirmation, it renders a meaning to his life.
Like the follower, he is badly wanting for existential answers and a solution what his significance is in an universe seemingly apathic to his dubious, minuscule existence.

Phlegethon
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 10:17 PM
whereas spelling everything out reduces knowledge to seizeable binary code, smarties for the mind but it provides no answers that fuels the heart of people to any persuasion.


Be a real



http://it.geocities.com/foto_f64/Smarties_rid.jpg



Join Phlegethon's party!

Tripredacus
Wednesday, February 9th, 2005, 10:07 PM
I could be either. But I know that my character would make me being a follower very difficult for whoever my leader may be. That is because I like to give orders when I get comfortable in a situation.

Siegmund
Wednesday, February 9th, 2005, 10:36 PM
I am both, and I guess almost everyone else is, too. If you want to lead the first thing you have to learn is to obey.
Exactly what I was about to say... to be an effective leader, one must first learn to follow.

Ultimately, I feel leadership is about responsiblity to those who have placed confidence and hope in you.

Drömmarnas Stig
Wednesday, February 9th, 2005, 10:50 PM
Leader all the way.

I could never ever be a follower, that was my main problem with the army.
If 2 plus 2 is four, then it's four, no matter what the frickin' leader says.

I have my own mind, f**k everyone who has a problem with that.
I could live with a leader if he respects my opinion.

Siegmund
Wednesday, February 9th, 2005, 11:11 PM
I could live with a leader if he respects my opinion.
In that case, my guess is you would make a good follower of a good leader - someone you could respect because he respects you. In such situations, I have often traded places with others depending on the specific skills required for the task at hand.

Lidvick
Thursday, February 10th, 2005, 05:14 AM
I am neither.

I refuse to follow for in the sense I find that following of the masses does not let me evolve in mind or wisdom and I am a seeker of wisdom, or I try to.

I am not leader because I often wonder if I am worthy for such a action. Also I am not a very social person in real life either.


I am a lone wolf so to speak I lead my own life and my own purpose and thought.


I will join a group or purpose if I feel I can help bring fourth somthing on the table and also if the subject at hand is worth joining.


It is interesting one spoke of pawns for in reality we all die and in the wake is death. In the end were all followers of a lively road of life leader and follower alike. And after that just echoes in the saga of history.:) :thumbup

SiegUmJedenPreis
Thursday, February 10th, 2005, 02:38 PM
I find this question quite interesting. Its exactly why whites cannot stand together.

- To many chiefs, too little indians.

Huzar
Thursday, February 10th, 2005, 02:46 PM
I find this question quite interesting. Its exactly why whites cannot stand together.

- To many chiefs, too little indians.

Excellent observation (i realized this, many years ago). Instead, it's very easy to subjugate non western peoples ( very few chiefs, large mass of ants).

SiegUmJedenPreis
Thursday, February 10th, 2005, 03:22 PM
Excellent observation (i realized this, many years ago). Instead, it's very easy to subjugate non western peoples ( very few chiefs, large mass of ants).
Yes, well its sad really.

To mention a good example. Here in South Africa we are a mere 3-5 mil whites, yet we already have counless splinter groups fighting against the injustice of our Communist goverment. Yet the only thing they do is to devide an already divided white polpulation.

I think we here are going to be another Custor's last Stand. Hopefully then will the whites world wide realize what is at stake.

Prussian
Thursday, February 10th, 2005, 03:48 PM
One key factor that must be realised in relation to the question here is the fact that an individual's abilities in the area of leadership are partly dependent on one's level of knowledge or talents in a particular area.

One may be a leader in one field & in the next this individual is a mere follower. Different degrees of Leadership are both broad & selective due to the ability of an individual but also the due to the level of determination present in an individual to conquer unfamiliar territory within situations that arise. Therefore indicating a varied degree of quality in leadership from one individual to another.

This indicates that there is great diversity in the area of leadership, just as the same rule of thumb applies to followers. The fact remains we are usually a combination of both types depending on the situations we face & how we handle them.

Huzar
Thursday, February 10th, 2005, 04:31 PM
Yes, well its sad really.

To mention a good example. Here in South Africa we are a mere 3-5 mil whites, yet we already have counless splinter groups fighting against the injustice of our Communist goverment. Yet the only thing they do is to devide an already divided white polpulation.

I think we here are going to be another Custor's last Stand. Hopefully then will the whites world wide realize what is at stake.

I imagine. 4 millions of whites against 25 millions of coloured people. there's no hope without unity ; and still persists english-dutch division. If all white people in the world were united, there wouldn't be any hope for anti-white. Unfortunately, this is more utopic than communist revolution.........

SouthernBoy
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 02:06 AM
Be a real









http://it.geocities.com/foto_f64/Smarties_rid.jpg









Join Phlegethon's party!



Those aren't smarties! :smilies

Kräuterhexe
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 02:12 AM
leader and follower of a leader who is respectful, in the right and able to make compromise.

SouthernBoy
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 02:50 AM
Maybe not, but good propaganda nevertheless. Oooh... candy! :inlove...need I remind you of Hansel & Gretel? :scared:-O :bmaiden :topic

Tripredacus
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 08:51 AM
...need I remind you of Hansel & Gretel? :scared:-O :bmaiden :topic

The band or the story? :D

SouthernBoy
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 11:43 PM
The band or the story? :D
Which is the one with the flesh-eating witch (i.e. Phelgethon)?

Draco
Saturday, February 12th, 2005, 03:16 PM
I serve well in a leadership capacity. Leading requires the willingness to take initiative, make decisions, and follow through with decisions. The charisma to not force, but genuinely make people want to follow your decisions is a major asset. My assertive personality and language skills lend themselves well to this.

I make a terrible follower. ;)

However, I prefer neither. I'm the guy who always likes to go off by himself and do his own thing. When I do have to be a leader as a situation requires, I regard it as a chore to be finished ASAP so I can go about my normal business.

Odin Biggles
Saturday, February 12th, 2005, 04:50 PM
George W Bush has none of those traits, hes a puppet.

Thats another thing to look at, current leaders who arent err very good at leading.

alphaknave
Sunday, March 27th, 2005, 05:26 AM
I LEAD! Come! Follow me, and let justice be done!

Germanicus
Sunday, March 27th, 2005, 02:32 PM
I find this question quite interesting. Its exactly why whites cannot stand together.

- To many chiefs, too little indians.
I agree. This is especially a problem in the USA. Most of the people here are narcissistic, shallow and self indulgent. The majority of their activities revolve around satisfying their enormous appetites for sex, booze, food, etc..
A leader's charisma and ability is irrelevant. The real question is "what can he do for me" not "what can he do for my nation". It is the whole "master of my own domain" principle satirized on TV shows like Seinfeld.


What they don't realize is that this unrestrained hedonism makes them fairly easy to manipulate. They only think that they are in charge...

King Yngvar
Tuesday, June 14th, 2005, 02:31 AM
Most of those who always fantasize about being leaders are those least qualified for that role.
If you do not have the will to power, you do not belong in power.

Todesritter
Tuesday, June 14th, 2005, 04:52 AM
I wish there were a 3rd ‘loner/hermit’ category, which would be me, the lone hilljack with his stash of books, technology, and tools. I neither lead nor follow, but will do either equally comfortably if my home is directly threatened, or I believe in the cause and the movement driving it.

User
Friday, June 24th, 2005, 12:28 PM
I like to be independent but I am more of a leader than a follower.

Niall Noigiallach
Friday, April 22nd, 2011, 07:01 AM
I wish there were a 3rd ‘loner/hermit’ category, which would be me, the lone hilljack with his stash of books, technology, and tools. I neither lead nor follow, but will do either equally comfortably if my home is directly threatened, or I believe in the cause and the movement driving it.
:thumbup

I'd be of my own station which is above others in that I have total Freedom over my life, yet I don't have the necessary (Schopenhauerian) Will and arrogance to believe my own opinions and ideas to be that above in greatness and importance of others' nor be that of a follower. I am my own person and have no weak need nor want to be in control of others nor be led.

flâneur
Friday, April 22nd, 2011, 08:29 AM
I am niether a leader or one of the led,in that manner i am very English.

Having said that i would have followed Hitler over the edge of the world.;)

Ingvaeonic
Friday, April 22nd, 2011, 01:26 PM
I see myself more in middle management than in a leadership or follower role.

Ælfrun
Friday, April 22nd, 2011, 04:20 PM
I wish there were a 3rd ‘loner/hermit’ category, which would be me, the lone hilljack with his stash of books, technology, and tools. I neither lead nor follow, but will do either equally comfortably if my home is directly threatened, or I believe in the cause and the movement driving it.

I think most of us would be in this category :P I am independent, so I guess that makes me neither a leader or a follower.

Caledonian
Sunday, April 24th, 2011, 02:16 AM
Neither. I'm a loner that neither likes to lead nor follow.

I'm a spectator spook and a lone rebel in my own mind or world view. ;)

TXRog
Sunday, April 24th, 2011, 02:21 AM
I have been a leader ever since I was in Cub Scouts (official "spokesperson" for our Den) and Little League (captain).

I have been accused by friends of being "too German" because I am very efficient, organized and and have a "can do, now let's get it done" attitude. Just seems like people enjoy giving me all the responsibility and they do what I say.

Needless to say I feel good about this.:D

BritishLad
Monday, May 16th, 2011, 08:31 PM
Since I'm a loyalist I'd say a follower, I can't really imagine myself as leader.

Edgard
Monday, May 16th, 2011, 09:38 PM
Neither. I'm a loner that neither likes to lead nor follow.

I'm a spectator spook and a lone rebel in my own mind or world view. ;)

I put leader but I am much the same as you. I relay don't follow but I don't necessaries want to lead, most of the time I go my own way although I sometimes take people along for the ride.

thoughtcrime
Tuesday, May 17th, 2011, 12:37 AM
A very hard question, im my opinion. I think I'm both and neither. It simply depends on the definition.

In a practical sense, I'm neither since I'm a natural free spirit and do not respond well to force. Having to do something I don't understand or don't want to do makes me unmotivated or outright defiant, while doing something out of personal conviction or to reach a goal that is important to me energizes me. I enjoy convincing others over commanding them. I don't have a lot of sympathy for neither slaves nor their masters.

In an absolute sense, I still can be either or both at times. If supporting any others' ideas or being convicted by someone makes one a follower, I, like everyone living in a society, am one. If affecting others by one's ideas and ideals makes one a leader, I'm that, too.

Since the original post suggests this is about following a particular person in an universal way or being said person and having devout followers, I'd go with the former definition.

I'm still voting 'leader' for statistical purposes. Since it's an either-or-question and the nature of my personality interferes with being a follower, but not necessarily with being a leader, I'm going with that: I could be classified as a leader who doesn't want to lead unless necessary.

feisty goddess
Tuesday, May 17th, 2011, 12:55 AM
I've never been much of a leader, defintely a follower but really I'm more like a loner because deep down I dislike almost everybody, except for my bfs/mates because attraction can make me like the man as a person. Lol, love is a selfish thing. I hate having to worry about leading others (unless they are very close family) and really hate being told what to do most of all. I suppose that's why I don't like people, I can't lead well and don't want to be in my place so I'd rather be on my own. This is also due to the fact that I have an extremely effeminite personality, I question everything I say and do X10, am paranoid, and let my feelings and emotions influence my thought process a lot. I'm so emotional and listen to my feelings and I wonder if this is why I go about life asking myself so many objective questions and have an attitude that is ready to embrace the truth. I realize that a person's feelings are not an accurate portrayal of the truth and that if you only think with your feelings you're only seeing a small part of it, but using your feelings and intuition can give you a special sort of ability to sense things accurately without being objective. A person like me who thinks in terms of intuition, feelings, and judgement that adopts a little bit of rational technique in their thinking can become very good at figuring out obscure things.

This is why I think I'dve made a good spy. It's somewhat of an independent job that relies on the ability to think fast and use your judgement and intuition to figure out what's going on. The ability to sense things is very valuable for being a spy, but you also have to have a lot of worldly knowledge and have to be able to use logic well. I am not very logical and could never acquire enough knowledge about the world and technology to be a spy because I am too free spirited/artistic, but I think if I had children with someone who was more left-brained, they would make excellent spies. With my keen memory, sensory abilities, guts (everyone tells me I've got more guts than anyone they've ever known), and love for danger/adventure combined with a mate's logical abilities I would probably raise great children for the intelligence business. that is, if they inherited a mix of our personalities and intellectual abilities.

Hersir
Tuesday, May 17th, 2011, 01:03 AM
Leader.

Grimsteinr
Tuesday, May 17th, 2011, 08:56 PM
I am, and have been a Leader throughout my long life. I have also been a Teacher, and an entertainer, over the years.
ETA.........I have on many occasions also been a spiritual Teacher, in classes, and as a Mentor.

Leaders, and Teachers are generally very out going, extroverted, frequently out-spoken people.
If you look around and there is someone that many people "listen to", pay attention to, seek out a person for advice..... that person has Leadership.
I think it is partly a personality trait. And, it is partly a thing that needs to be learned and practiced.:)

Patrioten
Tuesday, May 17th, 2011, 09:06 PM
Follower. I am loyal to a fault with people I respect and like.

Schmetterling
Tuesday, March 7th, 2017, 12:16 AM
On a personal note I am more of a leader/loner. If I follow something, it's my intuition. In my relationship, I'm usually the one who has to do the planning and deciding where to go, what to do etc.

Politically however I wouldn't see myself a leader and would avoid spotlights. I'd make a better follower or observer I guess.

Catterick
Wednesday, March 8th, 2017, 07:58 PM
Only ever a cryptic or reluctant leader.

Leliana
Wednesday, March 8th, 2017, 09:16 PM
I confess, I'm follower. I couldn't stand in the first row, in the first line, all alone against the malevolent flood. But I'd back a thousand of fighters on our side with all I have...in the fourth or fifth row. I'm female after all and not that extrovert and social to be a leader. Leaders have certain characteristics which makes them great. I have none of them.

Juthunge
Thursday, March 9th, 2017, 05:38 PM
I’d describe myself as a reluctant or unconscious/automatic leader. I don’t need to be in the lime light and not necessarily enjoy it.
But among friends and family, I was always the one who started discussions on what to do or where to go on a trip, for example.

But in the last few years I’ve realised, that you won’t get an answer if you’re presenting the average people with more than two, at the most three clearly worded options. In the latter case, you might actually get an answer, eventually, after quite some time.

But as soon as I noticed that things aren’t going fast enough I always too charge and more or less simply took all matters entirely into my own hands. In the last few years, I started to do that more and more and far earlier than in the past.

No one seems to complain about that and all seem glad, that they don’t have to do anything on their own initiative. That’s why it’s, in general, actually relatively easy to take charge, although it brings much responsibility for the group with it, of course.

But I have to admit, it’s also a good feeling if you can tell others what to do and follow your carefully worked out plans and therefore, your will. ;)

Blod og Jord
Saturday, March 25th, 2017, 09:30 PM
There are times when we all have to be leaders or followers.
For example, I will have to be a leader to my child. Enforce love and respect, and bring them up and educate them in a healthy way. I am a supporter of my partner, and of my family at the same time.
I don't like the limelight, but we all have to switch and do our best.

Gareth Lee Hunter
Sunday, March 26th, 2017, 12:58 PM
Neither a leader nor a follower be.

I make my own decisions to conduct my own affairs. That's the full extent of my leadership role... And I follow no one except the Good Lord.

RoyBatty
Sunday, March 26th, 2017, 01:01 PM
I'm neither, nor do I have any interest in being either.

Following is for sheeple and being a leader requires hard work, effort and being despised and hated by all those ungrateful, blind and stupid fools who you tried to help.

I'm a mercenary, adapt to circumstances and make them work for me.

Wyrd
Saturday, September 16th, 2017, 05:27 PM
Interesting how many people chose leader. :P

I guess I am neither and both. I am my own leader and my own follower. I have to be on my own and independent but I don't follow principles just for the sake of it. I analyze things before I decide to support a theory.

saxonbrit
Sunday, September 17th, 2017, 05:12 AM
Definitely a follower. Lots easier and far less risk. Life is hard enough. Make it as easy as possible.

Fjolnir
Sunday, September 17th, 2017, 07:11 PM
Are you sure a division into leaders and followers is really accurate? I'd say it's pretty pointless, people adapt to the situation at hand. There's quite a bit of systems of psychological profiling floating around and most of them admit that personalities are fluid and change over time. Studies show that even reading words associated with certain stances and emotions alter your behaviour, thusly also your leadership skills.