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Glenlivet
Monday, August 11th, 2003, 09:33 PM
The Genetic Legacy of Paleolithic Homo sapiens sapiens in Extant Europeans: A Y Chromosome Perspective

http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p1155.pdf

Test
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 05:46 PM
: A Y-Chromosome Perspective"
"A genetic perspective of human history in Europe was derived from 22 binary markers of the nonrecombining Y chromosome (NRY). Ten lineages account for >95% of the 1007 European Y chromosomes studied. Geographic distribution and age estimates of alleles are compatible with two Paleolithic and one Neolithic migratory episode that have contributed to the modern European gene pool. A significant correlation between the NRY haplotype data and principal components based on 95 protein markers was observed, indicating the effectiveness of NRY binary polymorphisms in the characterization of human population composition and history."

Awar
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 08:52 PM
Very very interesting... especially about the migrations of my haplogroup :)
Some info I had no idea about.

Test
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 09:02 PM
Very very interesting... especially about the migrations of my haplogroup :)
Some info I had no idea about.What is your haplogroup? By your phenotype I'd say M170.
Edit: I never did see a clear picture of you but I heard people describe you as some kind of big Alpine-like person.

Awar
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 09:19 PM
Remind me, what's the conversion for M170.

Here are a few photos, I'll remove them in an hour or so,
just guess :)
http://tinypic.com/xgfhc

Test
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 09:55 PM
Haplogroup classifications do not equate phenotype but a rough parallel can be drawn. Phenotype-wise, I just associate M170 with an intermediate between a depigmented/selected/more rugged Middle Easterner in Paleolithic Europe and M173's Cro-Magnon (and slightly taking into account the later Middle Eastern neolithic expansion and the westward Kurgan (Indo-European?) expansion), so a Spaniard, northern Italian, certain Britons, certain eastern/southern Europeans (Balkan) and such..

You do look like my prediction, so am I right?

from the posted PDF.. M170: The polymorphism M170 represents another putative Paleolithic mutation whose age has been estimated to be ;22,000 years (22, 23). With the exception of idiosyncratic distributions indicative of recent gene flow, M170 is confined to Europe (Eu7). The mutation is most frequent in central Eastern Europe and also occurs in Basques and Sardinians that have accumulated a subsequent mutation (M26) that distinguishes Eu8. The closest phylogenetic predecessor is the M89 mutation, from which the most important Middle Eastern lineages originated. We propose that M170 originated in Europe in descendants of men that arrived from the Middle East 20,000 to 25,000 years ago, who have been associated with the Gravettian culture (16). This migration may have coincided with that of mtDNA haplogroup H to Europe. It has been suggested that Gravettian an Aurignac groups coexisted for a few thousand years, maintaining their identities despite occasional contacts. During the LGM, Western Europe was isolated from Central Europe, where an Epi-Gravettian culture persisted in the area of present-day Austria, the Czech Republic, and the northern Balkans (16). After climatic improvement, this culture spread north and east (16). This finding is supported by the present Eu7 haplotype distribution. In this scenario, haplotype Eu8 would have originated in the western Paleolithic population during the LGM, as local differentiation of the M170 lineage. The frequency and the distribution of haplogroup H across Europe support gene flow between Gravettian and Western European Aurignac groups and suggest differential gender migratory phenomena (24).

Awar
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 10:19 PM
Nope, I'm Eu4. Actually more closely E3b(alpha). Thanks for the guess though. It illustrates that Y isn't equal to phenotype, but it's good for tracing migrations.

Test
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 10:30 PM
Nope, I'm Eu4. Actually more closely E3b(alpha). Thanks for the guess though. It illustrates that Y isn't equal to phenotype, but it's good for tracing migrations.Definitely, it can only give you an educated guess, and even that is after you familiarize with it. I gave up the first time because I didn't see any pattern. Now I'm pretty good at it and enjoy it. Once you understand the scheme, it's fun when the findings confirm predictions.

Eu4 is also derived from M89, like M170 (So, I'm not that far off.), but arrived in Europe from the Middle East much later, during the neolithic expansion.

Or did you mean Eu3? That's Yap, which is a scattered lineage that's scattered in very small groups all over the place. Yap in Europe might even come from Africa.;)

Awar
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 10:46 PM
I know the gravettians are originally from ME. I'm sure it's Eu4, not Eu3.
E3b is just another label for Eu4. The 'alpha' is a Balkan only sub-clade of the E3b.
The sub-clades are where it gets even more interesting. Unfortunately I don't have any info for other haplogroups.

http://tinypic.com/xpmpg

Test
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 10:53 PM
I know the gravettians are originally from ME. I'm sure it's Eu4, not Eu3.
E3b is just another label for Eu4. The 'alpha' is a Balkan only sub-clade of the E3b.
The sub-clades are where it gets even more interesting. Unfortunately I don't have any info for other haplogroups.

http://tinypic.com/xpmpgOk, I see it. Yup, you are Eu4/M89-derived. So, you're paternal lineage is from the Middle East.

Awar
Saturday, December 18th, 2004, 10:56 PM
Yep. It originated in the middle east some 25.000 years ago. But, my specific sub-clade is some 8000-12.000 years in the Balkans. The entire E 'family' seems to have originated in the Middle East and later spread around during Neolithic.

Klegutati
Thursday, January 18th, 2007, 12:17 AM
Nope, I'm Eu4. Actually more closely E3b(alpha). Thanks for the guess though. It illustrates that Y isn't equal to phenotype, but it's good for tracing migrations.

Yea, the Cromagnons of Aurignacian and latter Magdalenian culture for R1b looked more like Paleo-Indians (They split in south-central Siberia), and I am R1b1. Although I look like I1a (south-eastern European) with N (Finnic-Siberian). The Paleo-Indians and Paleo-Europeans were both haplogroup P 45kbp, in the west Altai mountain range (Siberia).;)

Although I need to know if the Magdalenian culture would've been introduced by R1b that stayed in the Italian Refugium during the Ice age, or was it the Iberian R1b, or both? Does anyone know about this?:|

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, January 19th, 2007, 10:03 AM
You know, it is a big jump from a marker to a phenotype.

Klegutati
Friday, January 19th, 2007, 08:40 PM
You know, it is a big jump from a marker to a phenotype.

Regardless of the phenotypical aspect. Anyways, they would've looked like most of the Cro-magnon recreations from Southern France, etc.:P My question was, "Although I need to know if the Magdalenian culture would've been introduced by R1b that stayed in the Italian Refugium during the Ice age, or was it the Iberian R1b, or both? Does anyone know about this?"

Cheers Mate!