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GreenHeart
Wednesday, July 24th, 2002, 09:13 AM
OR, which religion fits the best to your character?

Hellstar
Wednesday, July 24th, 2002, 11:47 AM
As the perfectionist I am, I wont vote because you used the words "pagan" = (Hollywood) and "religion" = (totalitarian doctrine) together with Heathen.

If it was reframed into Heathen mythology or Northern mythology I would vote,

I consider my self "mostly" a mixture of Tyr, Tor, Balder, Odin and Loki.
A descendent Warrior from my great ancestors!

ODIN VI SKAFFER VORES FOLK ÅRBEVÅGEHED OG STYRKE, BRING FREM ØL TROET, FOR VED DIG VIL VI DRIKKE OG TØMME VORES SJÆLS TØRST.

Rahul
Wednesday, July 24th, 2002, 03:35 PM
I am not going to talk about a religion, for honestly, I don't have one. Religion is a word which does not exist in the language which is mine.

I don't understand its relevance either. Its full of all that you get in those middle-eastern toppings.

If anyone wishes to listen to what I think, this forum should have been called Traditions & Lores instead.:D

Ritter
Wednesday, July 24th, 2002, 07:27 PM
Germanic Heathen!

GreenHeart
Wednesday, July 24th, 2002, 10:40 PM
I'm sorry that my choice of phrasing offends you, but I wanted to include ALL the non-christian mythologies, lores traditions etc.... those are the only phrases I know that encompass them all, so please, enlighten me! Which phrase I should have used?

Hellstar, you can edit that option in the poll if you find another better term, that doesn't only mean Nordic mythologies.

Tchort
Thursday, July 25th, 2002, 12:52 AM
Strict atheist.
why?..becuase Nietzsche said so.
:rolleyes: :D :viking

LaundryBob
Thursday, July 25th, 2002, 02:26 AM
I agree with Cosmotheism most of any religion, though I would not consider myself a Cosmotheist per se.

Most of my knowledge of Cosmotheism comes from Dr. Pierce's speeches and his biography. While I disagree that there is a creator, and we are the a manifestation of this creator, I do agree that it is our sacred duty to work towards and ever higher consciousness and towards physical perfection. I will have to start reading some more Cosmotheist literature in order to increase my understanding of the philosophy.

Zvaci
Thursday, July 25th, 2002, 03:19 AM
I have voted Atheist,but I do like to inspire with Legends,Gods and Heros of old Aryan peoples like Germanic Heathen,Zoroastrism,Greek and Roman myths,Slavic myths,Celtic myts ect.
I think that the great deal of life wisdoom lies in messages that our ancesters left us.
:viking

Brian
Friday, July 26th, 2002, 05:46 PM
I'm Catholic!

But I do hate the Catholic Chruch for all these kids getting molsted.It sicking.

Ederico
Friday, July 26th, 2002, 07:30 PM
I was raised a Catholic, I follow Christian morality (I think), but I do not follow the rituals, as I do not feel like following one set of religious ideals. I think the Pre-Christian Aryan myths to be highly inspiring for any Aryan, they are the heritage of our forefathers. I still have to find my religion. I am interested in Cosmotheism at the moment and I would like to get a greater insight of it, could someone help?

Hellstar
Saturday, July 27th, 2002, 11:06 AM
I changed the whole poll, I had to change some different things and i added some, i hope its ok with you?

Out of respect i reset all boxes back to 0 votes, so people know 100% what people voted for!


So lets begin on a fresh vote! shall we boys and girls!

GreenHeart
Saturday, July 27th, 2002, 09:58 PM
Thanks! But can you also put an option that says "pagan, or heathenism?"

Rahul
Monday, July 29th, 2002, 02:58 PM
I cannot, infact I can never accept the the term religion for what I feel the vedic traditions to be. But I need to thank HELLSTAR for putting in the poll an entry for the Vedic.

I had to vote then. And I am happy.

Thanks HELLSTAR!:)

Hellstar
Monday, July 29th, 2002, 03:16 PM
No problem my friend:)

I wanted to ask you something about Vedic, how many are faithful to Vedic these modern times, and where are its main spreading and do you got any sacred places dedicated to Vedic inheritance.

Rahul
Monday, July 29th, 2002, 03:21 PM
Vedic traditions, as they were, there are only a handful among the mass of a billion, which don't matter anyway.:)

We have a lot of inheritances, our seven rivers, starting with the Indus, which those moslem jerks in pakistan have completely destroyed with their vagrant anti-nature diatribe.

davison6
Tuesday, July 30th, 2002, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by NordicPower88
I'm sorry that my choice of phrasing offends you, but I wanted to include ALL the non-christian mythologies, lores traditions etc.... those are the only phrases I know that encompass them all, so please, enlighten me! Which phrase I should have used?Well, Pagan means the religions practiced in each country prior to the rise of slave religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism. Worshipping Zeus is as Pagan as Odin. Although Paganism had a strong local flavor, it was recognized that most of the Old Gods were the same (ie: Thor is Jupiter, Odin is Mercury, Freyja is Aphrodite, etc.) Although most people consider Hinduism as one of the "modern" religions, it is in fact a Pagan religion, the last surviving one along with Shintoism.

Ritter
Tuesday, July 30th, 2002, 11:39 AM
Ok, I can see Thor and Jupiter being similar, but Odin and Mercury?? :confused:

I agree though that "Paganism" (eww... I hate that word) is not "Nordic" religions only.

BTW please do not compare Nordic Mythlogy to Roman Mythology. It is totaly different, in just about everyway.

As for Hinduism... no clue about those "dot heads".... ;) j/k

Hellstar
Tuesday, July 30th, 2002, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by davison6
Well, Pagan means the religions practiced in each country prior to the rise of slave religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism. Worshipping Zeus is as Pagan as Odin. Although Paganism had a strong local flavor, it was recognized that most of the Old Gods were the same (ie: Thor is Jupiter, Odin is Mercury, Freyja is Aphrodite, etc.) Although most people consider Hinduism as one of the "modern" religions, it is in fact a Pagan religion, the last surviving one along with Shintoism.

I dont completely agree, the word pagan/paganus is rooted in the medieval AROUND the 1400th CENTURY,
Its true the reference about Tor - Odin - Tyr - Tuisto.
(Jupiter/Zevs)

I dont know what this mercury talk is about? (excuse my English)
if we are talking about mercurius or Hermes then its not Odin but Loki. so you are wrong about that, but at the same time not, course the cryptic myths about Lokis origin and ect are linked to Odin as well! beside the point Odin is said to be Uranus and not mercury and Loki is the one of mercur.

shambler
Tuesday, July 30th, 2002, 03:05 PM
http://webhome.idirect.com/~donlong/

This site has something of a 'schoolboy' quality to it, but I think it does a fair job of hitting on the obvious analogs, and some of the differences. I'm not sure how Marvel Comics would feel about having their comic book characters used as pictures in something that's supposed to be an academic setting, but there you have it. We're also informed that Prometheus was chained up in the 'Caucasian' Mountains. :rolleyes:

I think the biggest DIFFERENCE between the two systems is that the Roman/Greek cosmology kept adding deities and cults: Castor & Pollux, Isis, the --I can think of no other term -- pornographic Priapus, on top of deifying a slew of Emperors.

shambler

Rahul
Tuesday, July 30th, 2002, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by davison6
Well, Pagan means the religions practiced in each country prior to the rise of slave religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism. Worshipping Zeus is as Pagan as Odin. Although Paganism had a strong local flavor, it was recognized that most of the Old Gods were the same (ie: Thor is Jupiter, Odin is Mercury, Freyja is Aphrodite, etc.) Although most people consider Hinduism as one of the "modern" religions, it is in fact a Pagan religion, the last surviving one along with Shintoism.


Who told you that "Hinduism" is has a unity at all. Its not about sects, its not about rites, its not about IE either among many other things. Its merely a label, which was given to all the people who lived in the Subcontinent by the Semitic-Hellenic people.

I protest at this word for the very fact that it is a gross corruption of our highly regarded "Sind". It was a river, a source of great water and life and many other gifts of the mother earth. Maybe, our rivers are the veins of our mother. They are too important and we must care for them, all Aryans must!

Therefore I am ruling out the use of the word "Hinduism" which is how others see it, but it has no significance for me, only scorn for its the corruption of a word which represents in reality our great and vast rivers.

Some fools are somehow able to say that the name "India" is derived of Aryan itself. Its untrue. Here is how it evolved.

Vedic "Septa Sind" became Iranian "Hepta Hind".

"Hind" became Greek "Indica"
"Sind" in the vedic language has another meaning.
Which is actually very simple, telling the story of the great river's origin itself.

davison6
Wednesday, July 31st, 2002, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by HELLSTAR
I dont completely agree, the word pagan/paganus is rooted in the medieval AROUND the 1400th CENTURY,
Its true the reference about Tor - Odin - Tyr - Tuisto.
(Jupiter/Zevs)You are correct about the origins of the word. I was using it in the modern sense, but if You prefer "heathen", fine with me.


[i]I dont know what this mercury talk is about?
if we are talking about mercurius or Hermes then its not Odin but Loki. so you are wrong about that, but at the same time not, course the cryptic myths about Lokis origin and ect are linked to Odin as well! beside the point Odin is said to be Uranus and not mercury and Loki is the one of mercur.[/B]Mercury's aspect as trickster favors comparison to Loki, but this is superficial. While Loki was a denizen of Asgard, he was well known for harming the Aesir and fought against them at Ragnarok, which is totally at odds with Mercury's position is Olympus. In fact, in the interpretatio Romana Mercury was equated with Odin, as shown by the fact that Wednesday is Miercoles in Spanish and Mercredi in French. Mercury was the Taker of Souls, Conductor to the Underworld, a function which begins to approach Odin. When Herodotus says that the Royal Scythians worshipped Mercury as King of the Gods, we therefore know he was referring to Odin. This is especially interesting in light of Snorris assertion that Odin was a Thracian chieftain (the Scythians were overlords of the Thracians at this time).

davison6
Wednesday, July 31st, 2002, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by Rahul
Who told you that "Hinduism" is has a unity at all. Its not about sects, its not about rites, its not about IE either among many other things. Its merely a label, which was given to all the people who lived in the Subcontinent by the Semitic-Hellenic people.
I protest at this word for the very fact that it is a gross corruption of our highly regarded "Sind". It was a river, a source of great water and life and many other gifts of the mother earth. Maybe, our rivers are the veins of our mother. They are too important and we must care for them, all Aryans must!
Therefore I am ruling out the use of the word "Hinduism" which is how others see it, but it has no significance for me, only scorn for its the corruption of a word which represents in reality our great and vast rivers.
Some fools are somehow able to say that the name "India" is derived of Aryan itself. Its untrue. Here is how it evolved.
Vedic "Septa Sind" became Iranian "Hepta Hind".
"Hind" became Greek "Indica"
"Sind" in the vedic language has another meaning.
Which is actually very simple, telling the story of the great river's origin itself. So, what word may be used to refer to the religious beliefs of the Sub-Continent in general? Or do You feel that modern day Hinduism has distanced itself from it's Vedic roots and become a slave religion? In that case I'll correct myself and state that Shintoism is the last Heathen religion.

davison6
Wednesday, July 31st, 2002, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by shambler
I'm not sure how Marvel Comics would feel about having their comic book characters used as pictures in something that's supposed to be an academic setting, but there you have it. We're also informed that Prometheus was chained up in the 'Caucasian' Mountains. :rolleyes:They were quite correct to point this out. You see, the real match for Loki in Greek myth is Prometheus. As a trickster he did outwit Zeus, but his crime hardly merited his punishment. No, what really happened is that Prometheus killed Balder (Achilles or Hercules). In the Caucasus, he was seen by the pre-Aryan peoples as a hero, so his crime was eventually forgotten. Another mythic cycle that sheds much light here is that of the Narts, heroes of the Ossetians who descend from none other than the Scythians. Soslan is comparable to Achilles in many ways, as would Balder if more of his character hadn't been subsumed. Soslan is murdered in a way so similar to Balder by a character so similar to Loki that it can't be coincidence. Soslans murderer, like Loki, is admired amongst the Narts despite his meanness, but this deed was too much and he was nailed to the mountain. One reason why they admired him was that occasionally he pulled them out of tight spots, like when he stole fire from the palace of a giant (Hades) to warm them when they were stranded in a blizzard.

Rahul
Wednesday, July 31st, 2002, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by davison6
So, what word may be used to refer to the religious beliefs of the Sub-Continent in general? Or do You feel that modern day Hinduism has distanced itself from it's Vedic roots and become a slave religion? In that case I'll correct myself and state that Shintoism is the last Heathen religion.

Don't you have the Moslems, the Christians, the Sikhs, the Buddhists etc., in the sub-continent, do you consider them "Hindu" as well?

To my knowledge, the original use of the word "Hindu" was propagated by the Arabian-Semitic people. And among the modern Europeans, the Jewish-English East India Company propagated its use, and since the jews are overly cunning, beating all others, to spread their stupid hokum, now everyone uses it for the subcontinentals of all hues, colours, races etc.

Has "Hinduism" distanced itself from the "Vedic"?

Are you seeing Vedic as something which increased a few hundred dravidians to hundreds of millions?

x_nono

Just like all other Christians, you are free to use the word "Hindu". Maybe I will fail to explain in the present to you what 'I' know.
:)

davison6
Thursday, August 1st, 2002, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Rahul
Don't you have the Moslems, the Christians, the Sikhs, the Buddhists etc., in the sub-continent, do you consider them "Hindu" as well?Good point.


To my knowledge, the original use of the word "Hindu" was propagated by the Arabian-Semitic people. And among the modern Europeans, the Jewish-English East India Company propagated its use, and since the jews are overly cunning, beating all others, to spread their stupid hokum, now everyone uses it for the subcontinentals of all hues, colours, races etc.I see. Yes, this would create a huge dilemma for You in bringing your faith back to the rest of the Aryan nation.


Has "Hinduism" distanced itself from the "Vedic"?Umm... that's what I was asking You. I freely admit that I have no idea.


Are you seeing Vedic as something which increased a few hundred dravidians to hundreds of millions?Wow, You still remember that?


x_nonoHit a nerve, did I? My apologies.


Just like all other Christians, you are free to use the word "Hindu". Maybe I will fail to explain in the present to you what 'I' know.
:)I am left with a problem here. Naturally I would exclude non-Indian religions like Islam and Christianity, or even the Parsees, whose history lies in Persia even though they are Aryan. I am less sure whether to exclude the Dravidian influences, as these clearly had a central role in the development of the religion most people call "Hinduism". So, what do we call it, and what is included in it?

Rahul
Thursday, August 1st, 2002, 03:11 PM
@Davison


I see. Yes, this would create a huge dilemma for You in bringing your faith back to the rest of the Aryan nation.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has "Hinduism" distanced itself from the "Vedic"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Umm... that's what I was asking You. I freely admit that I have no idea.



I want to assert that I don't see, what the Vedas talk of, as religion, its simply traditions for me, all sorts of thoughts of many a forefathers from a time which was before recorded history. But it is so genuine and spirited and questioning, without being self-righteous. I find it depressing when someone uses it in a context other than what is used by the language, that in my opinion is an affront to our Aryan race, to our entire line-the ancestors, and their elevated intellegence and to ours'.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you seeing Vedic as something which increased a few hundred dravidians to hundreds of millions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow, You still remember that?





Dravidians cannot see anything other than dogma at best or lack of understanding for the worst, in the Vedic thought. Most of them are scornful of the Vedic traditions. I don't care about their denominations, they will be good Christians however. :rolleyes:

One final word, there is no such thing as a Hindu philosophy or thought for me.

Although we had an early multiculturalist system which destroyed all that could have been done to have a nation, a Volk of the Vedic people. Then there was Islam, following and thoroughly establishing multiculturalism.

Talk of the Bangans, they don't see Krishna as a revered figure, nor do many other people, their traditions are perfectly Aryans.

There is definitely a sign of some Jewish influence in early first me, which endowed this multiculturalism with all the characteristics which is now the fate of the US. There are jewish groups among the Khmer north-east christians, dravidians in the south and the south west. Then, the moslems have imported so much of "civilisation" from the Arabs.

Septa Sind or Aryaverta as a nation has a limited geographical territory in the Indian North West, and I am proud that I am born within its realm.

This is sapping my instincts, there needs to be some focus on what I can positively contribute to this forum.

davison6
Friday, August 2nd, 2002, 01:56 AM
Originally posted by Rahul
I want to assert that I don't see, what the Vedas talk of, as religion, its simply traditions for me, all sorts of thoughts of many a forefathers from a time which was before recorded history. But it is so genuine and spirited and questioning, without being self-righteous. I find it depressing when someone uses it in a context other than what is used by the language, that in my opinion is an affront to our Aryan race, to our entire line-the ancestors, and their elevated intellegence and to ours'.That's as good a way of putting it as I've ever seen. Unfortunately, most people will think of anything that beautiful as religious. And yes, I realize that this does have some disturbing implications


Dravidians cannot see anything other than dogma at best or lack of understanding for the worst, in the Vedic thought. Most of them are scornful of the Vedic traditions. I don't care about their denominations, they will be good Christians however. :rolleyes:ROTFLMAO! Every once in a while You absolutely kill me, Rahul! Especially when You're not even trying! Yes, Dravidians do make good slaves, that's why we conquered them to begin with.


One final word, there is no such thing as a Hindu philosophy or thought for me.You realize that this will make it difficult to talk to You about this subject? On top of the complexities of Vedic thought, people will have to learn the complexity of Rahul's thought before they can enter meaningful discussion. I've come about ten percent of the way towards understanding You.


Although we had an early multiculturalist system which destroyed all that could have been done to have a nation, a Volk of the Vedic people. Then there was Islam, following and thoroughly establishing multiculturalism.Yeah, damn Arabs did a knock up job on Spain too. We could have been the most powerful country in the world, but the English took it instead.


This is sapping my instincts, there needs to be some focus on what I can positively contribute to this forum. Umm... I have a suggestion. Don't focus, and don't try so hard. Just go with the flow. Use the force, young Sindwalker;)

Rahul
Friday, August 2nd, 2002, 04:29 PM
ROTFLMAO! Every once in a while You absolutely kill me, Rahul! Especially when You're not even trying! Yes, Dravidians do make good slaves, that's why we conquered them to begin with.

There is no need to get involved in any apparent way with the Dravidians. Well, with today's modern technology, it isn't that easy to retain your true essence and ingrain more from the nature. Multicultural iunteraction can only result in degeneration.

Better not having ever known them than conquer them.

Berserker
Sunday, August 4th, 2002, 01:30 AM
I am interested in learning about all religions, but I consider myself a PAGAN. Or Heathen if you will.

davison6
Monday, August 5th, 2002, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Berserker
I am interested in learning about all religions, but I consider myself a PAGAN. Or Heathen if you will. In that case, You are still a follower of a religion, just one that doesnt have an oppressive leadership complex. Paganism, as I mentioned earlier, was intensely rooted in the national traditions of the countries that practiced it, there was no foreign Holy Land to seduce and enslave pilgrims, no identical dogma for all the masses everywhere to swallow. And yet, there was a commonality of belief that precluded religious wars. Ever notice that the ancients never killed each other over Odin vs Zeus? As worshipped in each country, the two had different characteristics and different deeds imputed to them, but the Gods were recognized as being essentially the same everywhere. With the rise of the slave religions, despite the (supposed) unity of dogma, religious wars became absolutely rife, and contributed greatly to our nation's decline. More Christians were killed by Christians in Christ's name than any heathen could ever hope to match.

Berserker
Monday, August 5th, 2002, 04:31 AM
Wrong. I am not a follower of ANY religion. I meant Pagan in the heathen sense, you understand? Not into paganism so to speak.

davison6
Monday, August 5th, 2002, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by Berserker
Wrong. I am not a follower of ANY religion. I meant Pagan in the heathen sense, you understand? Not into paganism so to speak. In what sense is Paganism/Heathenism not a religion? It has deities, doesn't it? It has a world view complete with a creed of origins, doesn't it? If You believe in any form of these things, however altered by modern scientific knowledge (something that Paganism dealt with much better than the slave religions which still try to enforce Creationism upon their adherents), then You are a believer in the religion of Paganism. If You don't believe in these things, then You are not a Pagan, but an atheist (which although not actually a religion, is still a form of religious thought).

Berserker
Monday, August 5th, 2002, 05:05 AM
in the sense that i do not worship any deities, and i do not follow and laws, or believe in conforming to others ideals. How can I possibly be religious?

davison6
Monday, August 5th, 2002, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by Berserker
in the sense that i do not worship any deities, and i do not follow and laws, or believe in conforming to others ideals. How can I possibly be religious? At least You don't make any wishy washy attempts to straddle the fence. In this case, You are not a Pagan. Pagans/Heathens do indeed believe in deities. As for ideals, while they don't perceive it as conforming to the ideals of another (and certainly not of another mortal), like all other religions there is a set of ideals that must be conformed to because the Gods command it. They are also usually (but not always) that religion's idea of what is right and just, but the fact remains that the Gods command their followers to be right and just. If You follow your own ideals of what is right and just for their own sake rather than any divine command, then You are arguably nobler than he who follows the precepts of his religion. However, the fact remains that You are not following any religion and therefore cannot be a Pagan.
Paganism, for all it's differences with the slave religions, is still a religion.

Berserker
Monday, August 5th, 2002, 05:19 AM
pa·gan Pronunciation Key (pgn)
n.
One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
One who has no religion.
A non-Christian.
A hedonist.
A Neo-Pagan.


this is what i mean
:viking

davison6
Monday, August 5th, 2002, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by Berserker
pa·gan Pronunciation Key (pgn)
n.
One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
One who has no religion.
A non-Christian.
A hedonist.
A Neo-Pagan.

this is what i mean
:viking No, this is not what You mean. This is a collection of meanings taken from a dictionary, some of which are diametrically opposed to each other. You seem to be arguing for the second definition, yet this definition stands in direct contradiction to the first and fifth, and to most of what could be included in the third. Nor does it particularly agree with the fourth, since hedonists may still believe in God.
The original meaning of Paganism was 1) the polytheistic religions of the ancient world. As Christianity firmed it's grip, it came to mean 3) any non-Christian. As Christians came to admit their common origins with moslems and Jews, it came to mean something similar to it's original meaning, but only insofar as it was excluding "the People of the Book" (those religions based upon the Bible) from the pejorative meaning which the word by now carried. In modern times it was used rather loosely to describe 2) atheists, but I'm sure You'll realize that this was a conversational and incorrect usage. Right about this time pagans were also compared to 4) hedonists. This wonderfully incorrect usage was generally made on the basis of the greatly exaggerated orgies of ancient Rome, but by that time the Empire had become largely atheistic, religion being more of a fashion statement than a set of beliefs just before the Christian takeover. Certainly, the orgiasts would have laughed at the notion of taking divinity seriously. And very recently, the appearance of people professing beliefs inspired by ancient Pagan religions have reclaimed the word to describe 5) themselves.
Do learn to say what You mean, or You will never mean what You say.

Berserker
Monday, August 5th, 2002, 05:53 AM
lol well what i actually meant is I am not of any religion, and specifically of the Islam, Judaism, Christian zionist mindwash religions. I am not interested in any fanatic religion created in the desert. So I could still be classified as Pagan or Heathen... another defintion for Pagan being country folk, which is also true.
Pagan has many meanings, just as alot of words do, so maybe I should choose another word to describe myself, but that would be the closet thing to it you see?

davison6
Monday, August 5th, 2002, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by Berserker
lol well what i actually meant is I am not of any religion, and specifically of the Islam, Judaism, Christian zionist mindwash religions. I am not interested in any fanatic religion created in the desert. So I could still be classified as Pagan or Heathen... another defintion for Pagan being country folk, which is also true.
Pagan has many meanings, just as alot of words do, so maybe I should choose another word to describe myself, but that would be the closet thing to it you see? Atheist. I realize You have a certain sympathy for our ancient religion, which quite frankly all Aryans should have, but this still does not make You a believer. And I must discount some of the dictionary definitions since a dictionaries function is merely to list. To analyze the list and select the correct meaning is your function. For example, if You pass by my poolside and observe me languidly enjoying the ministrations of a submissive Asian in public, and mutter "pagan!" under your breath, anyone who hears will know that You're calling me a pervert. However, if You say You're a Pagan in a thread like this, everyone will think You believe in Odin or Zeus. I do realize that there's always room for interpretation, but clarifying your meaning first will help You to arrive at the correct interpretation.

Berserker
Monday, August 5th, 2002, 06:39 AM
As i do have a deep interest/respect in ancient Aryan religions/culture, also being a big part of my Nordic/Celtic heritage, i do enjoy the most of it, but i take i for what it is. I do understand where you're coming from here, I just always thought of `PAGAN' as not accepting the mainstream religions. But from now on in respect of your better judgement I will not call myself a Pagan if it that makes any sense... I will just consider myself Aryan ;) I do find the whole creator topic interesting as well, but like i said i should not really label myself anything in the first place, because that is a contradiction in its self to me. But it does seem that most of all our histories are intertwined with Paganism/Occultism/Celticism, it's just in our white roots... in our blood.

davison6
Monday, August 5th, 2002, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by Berserker
As i do have a deep interest/respect in ancient Aryan religions/culture, also being a big part of my Nordic/Celtic heritage, i do enjoy the most of it, but i take i for what it is. I do understand where you're coming from here, I just always thought of `PAGAN' as not accepting the mainstream religions. But from now on in respect of your better judgement I will not call myself a Pagan if it that makes any sense... I will just consider myself Aryan ;) I do find the whole creator topic interesting as well, but like i said i should not really label myself anything in the first place, because that is a contradiction in its self to me. But it does seem that most of all our histories are intertwined with Paganism/Occultism/Celticism, it's just in our white roots... in our blood. That's why I said that all Aryans should have some sympathy with the Ancient Religion. It's virtues embodied those which we as a People sought to cultivate, it's myths preserved memories of where we had been and what we had done. Paganism served the interests of the Nation that believed in it, almost a form of religious, rather than political, national socialism, if You will.

Berserker
Monday, August 5th, 2002, 06:54 AM
exactly! I'm for anything that will advance or speed up our progress as a people. Even if we have to kill off half the world while doing it :D

Jack
Saturday, August 10th, 2002, 09:32 AM
The Left Hand path... :cool

davison6
Sunday, August 11th, 2002, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by Sepp-Übermensch
The Left Hand path... :cool Yes, but only to Neo-Pagans. To the ancient Pagans, their worship was very much the Right Hand Path. However, none of us can be ancient Pagans unless we have a time machine, so I guess you're right.

Rahul
Sunday, August 11th, 2002, 04:13 PM
If an Aryan wishes to consider his relation with his gods, and gods are unique to the IE traditions, let us not confuse these traditions with religion. religion is much more rigid, full of dogma, bereft of sense sometimes, which many find easy to justify, with the use of mere words.

Traditions are Aryan thus, and lores for mythology.

There we see religion and mythology, what others have, off the context for our traditions.

How unique can we get?
And considering that our heritage, in each Aryan tradition is so much grand, with values that none other has, it is a basis itself.

Reacting to pagan or religion(the words), will be akin to reacting to the middle eastern denominations.

davison6
Monday, August 12th, 2002, 04:13 AM
Originally posted by Rahul
If an Aryan wishes to consider his relation with his gods, and gods are unique to the IE traditions, let us not confuse these traditions with religion. religion is much more rigid, full of dogma, bereft of sense sometimes, which many find easy to justify, with the use of mere words.
Traditions are Aryan thus, and lores for mythology.
There we see religion and mythology, what others have, off the context for our traditions.
How unique can we get?
And considering that our heritage, in each Aryan tradition is so much grand, with values that none other has, it is a basis itself.
Reacting to pagan or religion(the words), will be akin to reacting to the middle eastern denominations.True, to a certain degree. But if one is too unique, none will understand him. Aryans also have many things that bind them together, common threads running through the theme, and for this to be so some uniqueness must be sacrificed.
What I was telling Berserker was not that he couldn't feel as he wished about his beliefs, but how to best communicate those beliefs using words that would ensure others interpret his sayings as close to reality as possible. It's true that we are but dreams within a dream, yet this gets lonely. I choose to accept a little rigidity in words (not in beliefs!) so that I may pierce the dream, and see what my fellows dream too. If I may quote some dialogue between Reginald Johnston, tutor to the last emperor of China, and His Majesty:
A matter of words, perhaps, but words are important.
Why are words important?
Because if You can't say what You mean You will never mean what You say, and a gentleman <<or an Aryan -d6>> should always mean what he says.

Pera_Z
Monday, August 12th, 2002, 07:58 AM
National Socialism is enough. There are no need for any other religion.

The seriously students of National Socialism will find that NS is mostly based on Darwinism, Social Darwinism, Eughenic science, as much as Nietzscheism.
The more seriously students of NS are already recognize the influence of the Racial theories made by some phylosophers of the 18-19th Century.

Also in NS could be found the elements of Nordic Mythology, which were not the 'creed' and very changeable. SS was like a cult, with full of Odinists 'rithuals'. Belive it or not, you can check SS HANDBOOK.

Personally I don't see the reasons for praying to the Jew on the Cross or to the Primitive Pagan Mechanism. I really don't see any inspiration in the Gods, but in the ancient aryan warriors. The real battle moral are based on the love toward our own Race/Nation and could be based on the pain which we feel when we see the destruction and degeneracy by our own people.

P.Z.

GreenHeart
Saturday, August 24th, 2002, 11:06 PM
To avoid offending each other, what we all need to get straight is the terms we should use for the various forms of worship of various different gods and the types of beliefs associated with them.

This is what I propose:

RELIGIONS: Total fanatical devotion to only one god, and is intolerant of people who worship no god, who have other gods or people who worship the same god in another way.
Includes Christians, Jews and Muslims.

TRADITIONS & LORE: Loose ideas and advice which is helpful in life, also includes things that have been done for ages. Does not demand fanatical devotion, but rather says that you SHOULD adhere to the advice, but if you don't it's your own fault!
Includes all pre-christian Aryan religions.

Pera_Z
Sunday, August 25th, 2002, 07:07 AM
I think that our knowledge lay in the eternal struggle for researching Natural Laws. We should not be the pagans who personificate natural laws, because they didn't have so much developed science. But I stand that the science wouldn't be so greate like it is today, that they (The pagans our ancestors) didn't exist.

We must take the good thing from the past and present to create the better future. Rebirth.
But some people try to rebuild the Pagan system so much that they forget in which year they live, and what kind of future is afore us. They live in their pagan world and they don't posses conscious for the time.

If someone want to be the Pagan because of tradition, it is not my bussiness, and really I am not interesting in it. Pagan Holydays are very good and remind the future generations on their ancestors - who were they, and what is their wisdom.

But the situation with Christianity is something else. Privately I can't understand the fact that comrade who is NS, belive and pray to dying Jew on the cross. It is very contrary to our stands. That religion had not been made by Aryans, and even if someone claims else, I would say then that those Aryans who invented Christianity were nothing but degenerics.

I repeat that this is my personal point of view, and it should not affect to anyone. With this thread, I am not speaking in the name of any White Racial Group.

NordicPower88, do you think that I am wrong on this one?
Whatever you say, I am not against it, because I think that we all should find the common language, and start the first seriously discussion. Many comrades avoid this subject, but I think that it is a little bit of cowardice.

P.Z.

P.S. NP88 read the SS handbook, and you will see the greate pagan tradition in SS division but also there are some changes because it had to be according to NS.

Francis_Benson
Sunday, August 25th, 2002, 08:34 PM
I personally can understand how a person can learn many valuable lessons from Christianity, i.e.: the subjugating of selfish interests for the greater good of the group (State). The willingness to die before surrendering one's belief.I don't consider myself to be a christian; however, I think a person can follow the teaching of Jesus and stay true to the race. Jesus was very critical of the jew. He called them children of the devil. I consider myself to be religious, but in a more mystical and magical way than christianity provides. I like to think of Jesus in the Gnostic way as one who came to free the jew from the tribal god yahweh and introduce him to the all pervasive god Brahman.

davison6
Monday, August 26th, 2002, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by NordicPower88
To avoid offending each other, what we all need to get straight is the terms we should use for the various forms of worship of various different gods and the types of beliefs associated with them.
This is what I propose:
RELIGIONS: Total fanatical devotion to only one god, and is intolerant of people who worship no god, who have other gods or people who worship the same god in another way.
Includes Christians, Jews and Muslims.Umm... some of us are Christian and not necessarily fanatics. I don't get upset when the Pope is called the Whore of Babylon because he is, but to lump all Christians in as fanatics is absurd.

davison6
Monday, August 26th, 2002, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Francis_Benson
I personally can understand how a person can learn many valuable lessons from Christianity, i.e.: the subjugating of selfish interests for the greater good of the group (State). The willingness to die before surrendering one's belief.I don't consider myself to be a christian; however, I think a person can follow the teaching of Jesus and stay true to the race. Jesus was very critical of the jew. He called them children of the devil. I consider myself to be religious, but in a more mystical and magical way than christianity provides. I like to think of Jesus in the Gnostic way as one who came to free the jew from the tribal god yahweh and introduce him to the all pervasive god Brahman. It has been theorized that Jesus spent time in India before returning to Judaea for his ministry. Certainly, the Indian Church was very early considering the distance and previous lack of contact between the two areas.

GreenHeart
Monday, August 26th, 2002, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by Pera_Z
I think that our knowledge lay in the eternal struggle for researching Natural Laws. We should not be the pagans who personificate natural laws, because they didn't have so much developed science. But I stand that the science wouldn't be so greate like it is today, that they (The pagans our ancestors) didn't exist.

We must take the good thing from the past and present to create the better future. Rebirth.
But some people try to rebuild the Pagan system so much that they forget in which year they live, and what kind of future is afore us. They live in their pagan world and they don't posses conscious for the time.

If someone want to be the Pagan because of tradition, it is not my bussiness, and really I am not interesting in it. Pagan Holydays are very good and remind the future generations on their ancestors - who were they, and what is their wisdom.

But the situation with Christianity is something else. Privately I can't understand the fact that comrade who is NS, belive and pray to dying Jew on the cross. It is very contrary to our stands. That religion had not been made by Aryans, and even if someone claims else, I would say then that those Aryans who invented Christianity were nothing but degenerics.

I repeat that this is my personal point of view, and it should not affect to anyone. With this thread, I am not speaking in the name of any White Racial Group.

NordicPower88, do you think that I am wrong on this one?
Whatever you say, I am not against it, because I think that we all should find the common language, and start the first seriously discussion. Many comrades avoid this subject, but I think that it is a little bit of cowardice.

P.Z.

P.S. NP88 read the SS handbook, and you will see the greate pagan tradition in SS division but also there are some changes because it had to be according to NS.

I think I'm not understanding you right. Do you think I'm against paganism/heathenism??

Well anyway I totally agree with you. As "pagans" (for lack of better term) We can't totally live in the past. We should acknowlegde it, and even admire and aspire to it, but not completely live it.

Anyway, I don't really care about christianity, it's so boring I could almost fall asleep. If you read about these people in the bible you can't get an accurate idea in your head about how they look and think, and you don't get the feeling that this doesn't pertain to you! Besides the fact that it's so dogmatic, nobody can ever possibly live up to it. So you suffer. I don't want to live my life suffering, I want to LIVE!!!!

For me it doesn't make sense to live like you are already dead. Because what if when you die, you're just dead?

I also believe it's extremely hypocritical to be christian and NS or WN. Because in my opinion true christians have no reverance for their ancestors, or race, (all men are equal in the eyes of "god") and can only love and die for god and nothing else.

But at the same time, I feel that religion is a personal thing, and though I will question a christian to see why he believes that way, I would never FORCE him to believe in something else.

By the way, I would love to read that SS manuel if I find it somewhere online!! Do you have a link??

Jack
Wednesday, August 28th, 2002, 08:15 AM
Gnostic...

wpvengeance1488
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 03:43 AM
i am a die hard odinist/heathen but i do study all kinds of religions

Saoirse
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 05:44 AM
Pagan.

Sudden_strike88
Wednesday, May 28th, 2003, 09:10 PM
ODIN VI SKAFFER VORES FOLK ÅRBEVÅGEHED OG STYRKE, BRING FREM ØL TROET, FOR VED DIG VIL VI DRIKKE OG TØMME VORES SJÆLS TØRST.


Akkurat derfor så kjem du ikkje no`sted. Ikkje andre som støtt de hell.

-----------

I clicked on other simply because I did not want to be in with Catholics and Lutherans. My religion is a different story for itself :-)

Evolved
Thursday, May 29th, 2003, 01:47 PM
Shaman/Noáide/Táltos :)

Archangel Michael
Sunday, June 22nd, 2003, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by Pera_Z
National Socialism is enough. There are no need for any other religion.

The seriously students of National Socialism will find that NS is mostly based on Darwinism, Social Darwinism, Eughenic science, as much as Nietzscheism.
The more seriously students of NS are already recognize the influence of the Racial theories made by some phylosophers of the 18-19th Century.

Also in NS could be found the elements of Nordic Mythology, which were not the 'creed' and very changeable. SS was like a cult, with full of Odinists 'rithuals'. Belive it or not, you can check SS HANDBOOK.

Personally I don't see the reasons for praying to the Jew on the Cross or to the Primitive Pagan Mechanism. I really don't see any inspiration in the Gods, but in the ancient aryan warriors. The real battle moral are based on the love toward our own Race/Nation and could be based on the pain which we feel when we see the destruction and degeneracy by our own people.

P.Z.


You'rew wrong. National-Socialism is not a religion, never has been and was not intended as such. Even Hitler was opposed to the idea when Himmler suggested this to him.

Most people prefer conventional religion - or none at all. Introducing Nazi doctrine as religion is as stupid as treating Communism as a religion. Just as the Communists failed, you will fail as well.

Archangel Michael
Sunday, June 22nd, 2003, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by Berserker
in the sense that i do not worship any deities, and i do not follow and laws, or believe in conforming to others ideals. How can I possibly be religious?

You're right. I would class you as an atheist anarchist.

_Vé_
Monday, August 25th, 2003, 12:16 AM
Odin and Thor are my two.

Stríbog
Friday, September 5th, 2003, 02:33 AM
LOL only NP88 would have labelled Islam as "Muslimism" :rofl