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nicholas
Wednesday, December 1st, 2004, 04:20 AM
What occult methods did Hitler use? Was he defeated using magick? What about the Sword of Destiny?

*the americans attempt at starting a discussion*

Nick

TisaAnne
Wednesday, December 1st, 2004, 06:08 AM
What occult methods did Hitler use? Was he defeated using magick? What about the Sword of Destiny?I recently became interested in this topic, and asked a friend, and member of this forum, about it's relevance. Here is part of the answer he gave me, (which I really hope he doesn't mind my sharing. :) ). His info pretty much set the record straight on the matter for me because I consider him to be a very knowledgeable and relevant source on Hitler, National Socialism and most matters of Germany, in general.

***Note: I've given the following excerpt without permission from the person who wrote it to me, and have not identified the writer, so if there is any dispute about what I've submitted...Keep it to yourself, as the author may or may not wish to defend his position. This is just a strictly informational bit of writing that might shed some opposition on your query.***



It is true that Hitler read some occult Germanic magazines (for example "Ostara") in his teenage years in Vienna but this shouldn´t be overrated. Most influental on the young Hitler was his admiration for Richard Wagner.
Although the secret "Thule Society" in Munich that he came in contact with after WW1 indeed had a strong connection to occultism, paganism, heathendom, etc., the main appeal on Hitler was its support of the counterrevolution which disempowered the communist council that reigned in Munich since 1918. The Thule society also participated in the foundation of the DAP which later was renamed to NSDAP. Hitler was in no way occultist and neither were most National Socialists who came out of the Thule milieu, for example Rudol Heß and Alfred Rosenberg. Both the political program and the actual established National Socialism were extremely anti-occult. Many pseudo-religious groups, even if they were anti semitic and pro NS, were declared illegal and some of its members sent to the concentration camps after the NSDAP took over power in 1933.

The only real occultist NS leader was Heinrich Himmler who was quite a nut. Many weird esoteric ideas about runes, rebirth, astrology, fortune-telling and so on circled in his head but this often was ridiculed behind his back, even by Hitler himself (mostly in his table talks). Tabloid writers nowadays always bring up this stories about evil occult NS since such things sell much better than pointing out the true story but there really isn´t much to it.

Phlegethon
Wednesday, December 1st, 2004, 12:31 PM
Yeah, that is basically true, although the occult nature of the Thule Society is totally overrated, as well as its relevance. You have to imagine it as a kind of freemason lodge as far as the rituals are concerned, coupled with a rather conservative than revolutionary political leaning.

Depending on the definition of occultism one could say that Hess was an occultist in so far as he believed in horoscopes. I would rather classify this as a mild form of superstition.

Himmler on the other hand was full blown nuts. He actually believed he was the reincarnation of Henry the Fowler. Normally at this point he should have been relieved of his offices and sent to an institution. The same is true for most occultist that were involved in the SS in one way or the other (Willigut for example).

But every newspaper knows: Hitler sells. Occultism sells. So an occultistic Hitler story probably sells even better. Since the 80s we had so much hysteria all over the world that government money was pumped into a few obscure monitoring groups who see occultist and Satanist everywhere - basically to save their own jobs. I cannot count the instances of newspaper headlines like "Woman confesses: I was involved in Black Masses and ritual murder. Hundreds of victims?" Of course all these claims came from truly mentally disturbed persons are were so obviously false that the smarter newspaper editors did not touch the topic with a ten feet pole. But for the tabloids it was a quick buck.

green nationalist
Wednesday, December 1st, 2004, 12:35 PM
Some Satanists use Hitler as archtype.

But I doubt we will ever know if Hitler himself was a Satanist.

According to the Muslims we are all the great Satan so it depends on your point of view and definition of Satan.

Wissen ist Macht
Wednesday, December 1st, 2004, 06:07 PM
I recommend to read the book "The Occult Roots Of National Socialism" by Goodrick-Clarke. I found it to be written in an objective way and the author comes to the conclusion that after all, National Socialism was not very much influenced by occultism although some higher leaders where members of the Thulegesellschaft or otherwise engaged in occult societies and / or practices.

Another book on this topic is "The Spear of Destiny" by Ravenscroft. IMHO absolute bullshit, weird stuff. His sources are transcendental experiences which let him have a look into Hitler's quite unknown years in Vienna. Not worth a penny or Pfennig... ;)

Mjölnir
Wednesday, December 1st, 2004, 06:56 PM
I think that Aleister Crowley also meet Hitler (i read in in some Thule Net Post)
and that the "Deutscher Gruss" and the "Victory Sign" by Churchill are some handmagick!

So i think Hitler was introduced in the occult signs and spells.:)

Taras Bulba
Wednesday, December 1st, 2004, 07:33 PM
I think that Aleister Crowley also meet Hitler (i read in in some Thule Net Post)
and that the "Deutscher Gruss" and the "Victory Sign" by Churchill are some handmagick!

So i think Hitler was introduced in the occult signs and spells.:)


Hmmmn.....intetesting that Hitler would meet with a British spy. Yes, Aleister Crowley was an agent for British intelligence during the war, and used his contacts with German occultists to obtain information(this was also true with other major British occultsts) for the British war effort. This is is how the British knew about Hess' flight ahead of time. A trival but still interesting aspect of this story is that Crowley's superior was Ian Fleming, who would later write the James Bond novels.

There are many myths about Hitler and the Occult. One of the most popular is how Hitler consulted astrologers....this is false. Hitler actually attacked astrology and after the Hess affair had many arrested. The Spear of Destiny story has never been really proven.

Mjölnir
Wednesday, December 1st, 2004, 10:46 PM
Hmmmn.....intetesting that Hitler would meet with a British spy. Yes, Aleister Crowley was an agent for British intelligence during the war, and used his contacts with German occultists to obtain information(this was also true with other major British occultsts) for the British war effort. This is is how the British knew about Hess' flight ahead of time. A trival but still interesting aspect of this story is that Crowley's superior was Ian Fleming, who would later write the James Bond novels.

There are many myths about Hitler and the Occult. One of the most popular is how Hitler consulted astrologers....this is false. Hitler actually attacked astrology and after the Hess affair had many arrested. The Spear of Destiny story has never been really proven.
The Article:

Aleister Crowley is the occultist and Satanist that is maybe the most well known. His works "The Book of the Law", "Magick in Theory and Practice" and "The Book of Thoth" are broadly used in occult circuits. Crowley himself didn't take much credit for having written them, as he stated they were written by automatic handwriting, being channeled from a higher being called Aiwaz (or Aiwass). This being said he had lived in Caldea during the reign of Hammurabis (around 1750 BC), but later, in his book "Magick in Theory and Practice", Crowley identified Aiwaz as his own genius. He was actually very proud of this book, which he used as a Bible for his own religion - Thelema. Crowley looked at man as a sleeping god who gradually started to understand what powers he possesses. He also taught that Satan was identical with the Sumerian devil/god Shaitan, who he stated had been worshiped in the Egyptian deserts long before the ages of the Pharaohs.


He was also a drug- and sex addict and was addicted both to opium, hashish, cocaine, mescaline, amphetamines and heroin, in order to perceive higher states of beingness (drug abuse is very common to occultists in general). When he discovered mescaline, he developed seven rituals, Rites of Eleusis, and rented Caxton Hall to demonstrate them. Later he opened up a Temple of Satan in London, where many high society ladies became his pupils. By that time Crowley had shaved his head and filed his canine teeth so sharp that he could initiate every new woman with a "kiss of the snake", as he gave them a bite either on the wrist or in the throat.

"Do what thou will shall be the whole of the Law" [The work of the OTO ... is geared towards the achievement of a world-spanning empire ... The Law "Do what thou wilt" is the law of this new state - a One World Government] was his motto for the OTO, which was the secret order he himself was the Grandmaster of. He rejected traditional morality in favor of the life of a drug addict and brutal womanizer ("I rave; and I rape and I rip and I rend" is a line from one of his poems). He even enjoyed being called the "wickedest man in the world". He was married twice, and both his wives went insane. Five of his mistresses committed suicide.

People who met Crowley verified that he had occult powers, and as an example William Seabrook tells the following story: Seabrook wanted a demonstration of Crowley's powers, so the latter chose a man by random out on the street and followed him, imitating his walk. Suddenly Crowley fell but was rapidly on his feet again. At the same time the other man fell on the sidewalk. Crowley and his companion helped the man up, and he looked confused, trying to find the banana peel.

Crowley was also the man who came up with putting backwards messages into musical recordings. Beatles, the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin used this on some of their albums. Jimmy Page put a backward satanic message on the mega hit "Stairway to Heaven" ("Here's to my sweet Satan"). Page also bought Crowley's mansion in Scotland and was/is a true follower of his teaching, as was the late drummer John Bonham from the same group. Beatles also used backwards messages like "Paul is dead" on their albums and Crowley's head is present on the cover of "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band".

http://www.illuminati-news.com/dotviolet.GIF

Aleister Crowley was born in Warwickshire where he revolted against a strict religious childhood. He left his studies and became initiated into the secret order of the Golden Dawn in 1898. After some time he came into conflict with its leaders and went to Mexico. From there he traveled a lot, to India and Ceylon, where he studied yoga and Buddhism. Buddhism replaced his occult interests for a while, until he got a strange experience in Cairo, Egypt in 1904. By curiosity his wife Rose asked him to do an occult ritual. She then went into a state of trance and brought down a message from some strange being. "He's waiting for you", she told Crowley. "Him", she said, was Horus, the God of wars and the son of Osiris in the old Egyptian mythology.

At first, Crowley didn't believe her, so he started asking her a few questions to reveal her as a fraud. But Rose, who didn't know very much about the occult, gave the correct answers ...

The message that was sent to Crowley, told him to sit down by his desk a certain time three days in a row. He obeyed and in these three days he wrote "The Book of Law" with automatic writing. This means ones hand is moving by another force than ones own ...

Crowley's messenger taught that the old Age of Osiris soon would follow by the new Age of Horus. But first Earth must bathe in blood. There should be a World War(!). The Book of Law told about a race of Superhuman and condemned the old religions, the pacifism, democracy, compassion and humanity. "Let my servants be few and secret, they shall reign over the many and the known", the Superhuman continued. The rest of the message goes in the same spirit. The lower races should be humiliated and condemned and even killed. It taught "no mercy". [Long before the Roswell incident, where a flying saucer crashed in the desert and dead aliens were found, Crowley made a drawing of one of his "messengers" called Lam - the drawing is identical with the Grey Aliens with the big black eyes, who nowadays are so well promoted in movies and among abducted].

The messenger also declared that Crowley was the Beast 666 from the "Book of Revelations" (13:18) who had come to destroy Christianity. He tried to forget the whole thing, but from 1909 and forwards, he started taking the messages seriously.

Crowley then left his former occult teacher MacGregor Mathers, who by then was a broken man. Mathers started a psychic war against Crowley. They contacted "demons" with which they attacked each other, and Mathers lost. Such demonic warfare is very common today among the Brotherhoods. Long after his death, Crowley became a hero for many young people within the flower-power movement. The irony in all this is, that these young people cried for peace and love. Crowley in his turn welcomed the First World War, as necessary to sweep away the old age and start the new one. Since he revealed his revelations, he became the head of the OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis) in Germany, which gave him a great influence over similar people in Germany. It's also well known that Hitler was influenced by him and that Crowley himself tried to contact Hitler during the 2:d World War.

Quelle: http://www.illuminati-news.com/aleister_crowley1.htm

Racial Philosopher
Wednesday, December 1st, 2004, 11:04 PM
http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-12.htm

-a section from an anti-Buddhist/lammaic website, but nevertheless contains some interesting infirmation on Miguel Serrano, Tantrism etc.

Taras Bulba
Thursday, December 2nd, 2004, 04:25 PM
Here's a an article dealing with Crowley's involvements with British intelligence.



http://www.redflame93.com/Fleming.html

During World War II, the most unusual top secret operation which Ian Fleming orchestrated dealt with using a Nazi leader's defection as a propaganda tool for the war effort. The idea sounded risky, but the major difficulty lay in deciding which Nazi leader they could get to defect and how.
A plan was hatched which culminated on May 10th 1941 when Adolf Hitler's Deputy, Rudolf Hess, took off in a Messerschmitt bound for Scotland. Some historians claim he was bringing a secret peace offering to end the war however the truth is far more interesting. It appears Fleming, Knight and others had earlier devised this outrageous plan to lure Rudolf Hess to England by slipping him false astrological information. They believed that Rudolf Hess was 'the' gullible Nazi leader they were looking for and it proved true. The data which they fed into the Nazi astrological circles claimed that six planets in the sign of Taurus when coinciding with a full moon implied success for a secret meeting to end the war.
Hess had already learned that a plot to overthrow Churchill's government was being planned in Scotland. Now, with the astrological advice heralding success, Hess was confident and wanted to be personally involved. Fortunately he was unaware that such a plot did not exist, having been fabricated simply to catch him. The meeting was scheduled to take place with the Duke of Hamilton, who was then working with the R.A.F. in Scotland. Hess made arrangements to secretly fly into Scotland in order to negotiate peace for Germany with the 'new' British leaders, of whom Hamilton was one. Unfortunately once Hess was taken into custody the incident was very poorly handled as a propaganda weapon. Little publicity came out regarding his 'defection.' In the end the scheme failed, achieving little more than capturing Rudolf Hess, which in itself was actually a great accomplishment.
During the interrogation Rudolf Hess spoke in strange ramblings which some viewed as occult. Ian Fleming, who was involved with those interrogations, decided that help was needed. But who could he get who might understand these occult ramblings? Fleming thought about it and then suggested to his boss, Rear Admiral John Godfrey, "that Crowley should be allowed to interview Hess about the role of the occult in Nazism." (3) Fleming thought Crowley would be able to obtain further details on the influence of astrology with the Nazi leaders. It seemed like a good idea at the time. However it was his friend, Maxwell Knight, who spoke strongly against Crowley's involvement with Hess. It is said that Knight had no intention of allowing Crowley near Rudolf Hess, even though some historians have indicated that Crowley actually was a MI6 agent who spied on the Nazis and Communists in pre-war Berlin for the British government. Still, some members of the British Government, like Fleming, actually believed that Crowley could have helped in understanding Hess and other Nazi leaders. Both sides argued over this issue but Knight won out. In the end, Crowley was never summoned.
Ian Fleming's biographer John Pearson wrote that Fleming "surpassed himself by appealing to one of the most notorious men in the whole of the British Isles. For many years he had been fascinated by the legend of wickedness which had attached itself to the name of Aleister Crowley, necromancer, black magician and the Great Beast 666. This immensely ugly old diabolist and self-advertiser had thrown himself into certain more unsavory areas of the occult with a gusto that must have appealed to Fleming, and when the interrogators from British Intelligence began trying to make sense of the neurotic and highly superstitious Hess he got the idea that Crowley might be able to help and tracked him down to a place near Torquay, where he was living harmlessly on his own and writing patriotic poetry to encourage the war effort. He seems to have had no difficulty in persuading the old gentleman to put his gifts at the disposal of the nation." (4)
Aleister Crowley wrote a brief letter to Ian Fleming, now the Director of Naval Intelligence, offering his help.

Sir:
If it is true that Herr Hess is much influenced by astrology
and Magick, my services might be of use to the Department in
case he should not be willing to do what you wish. I have the
honour to be, Sir,
Your obedient servant,
Aleister Crowley (5)


With the letter Crowley included a copy of his latest patriotic poem entitled "England Stand Fast". To quote further from Fleming's biography, "It is a pity that this had to be one of Fleming's bright ideas which never came off: understandably, there was hilarity in the department at the idea of the Great Beast 666 doing his bit for Britain." (6) So in the end "Fleming's suggestion was vetoed, and Crowley and Hess never did meet, to the chagrin of the unorthodox historian." (7)

Mjölnir
Friday, December 3rd, 2004, 12:04 PM
[QUOTE=Taras Bulba]Here's a an article dealing with Crowley's involvements with British intelligence.

Interesting Article, show many things in a new light in the case of Hess.

Taras Bulba
Friday, December 3rd, 2004, 04:31 PM
Interesting Article, show many things in a new light in the case of Hess.
They didnt mention that the British knew ahead of time that Hess was flying to England, thats recently been revealed. And Crowley was an agent during WW2, not just in the pre-war years.

Grimr
Friday, December 3rd, 2004, 09:13 PM
The only real occultist NS leader was Heinrich Himmler who was quite a nut. Many weird esoteric ideas about runes, rebirth, astrology, fortune-telling and so on circled in his head but this often was ridiculed behind his back, even by Hitler himself (mostly in his table talks). Tabloid writers nowadays always bring up this stories about evil occult NS since such things sell much better than pointing out the true story but there really isn´t much to it.

Utter nonsense.

green nationalist
Saturday, December 4th, 2004, 02:04 PM
Utter nonsense. Seriously mate, you could provide a more illuminating criticism of TisaAnnes post than that, a 2 word dismissal with no prove or argument is lazy to say the least.

Why do you think this is utter Nonsense?

Wissen ist Macht
Saturday, December 4th, 2004, 02:27 PM
Utter nonsense.

Read Goodrick-Clarkes book "The Occult Roots of National Socialism" before spitting out utter nonsense.
There were quite some esoterical ideas "spooking" around in various national socialist leaders heads, but they didn't have any large effect on the way which national socialism took.
Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler had many occult ideas. My personal opinion is that he most probably wasn't as nerdy as many people who got to knew him described him (not to speak of those who never spoke a word to him and talked / wrote in a bad manner about him decades later). One should take into account that Himmler read many books, essays and so on on occult matters for years and that there will have been few people around him who had occult knowledge on a similar level. That is why I presume that Himmler's occult side "scared" many people simply because they were not able to understand it. AFAIK, Himmler was also into Hörbiger's "Glacialkosmogonie", Welteislehre (world ice theory) which was strongly rejected by established scientists. Getting into world ice theory alone takes amounts of time. Now think about all the other "special things" in which Himmler was interested and then ask yourself how many people there were who had enough background knowledge to really understand what was going on instead of just labelling him as a weirdo.

Phlegethon
Saturday, December 4th, 2004, 05:43 PM
I have talked to a few old folks who studied with Heinrich Himmler (all but one deceased by now). They confirmed that they all found him to be extremely odd. In the Munich fraternities Himmler was the butt of every joke and even the convent protocols of the Munich Waffenring confirm this quite drastically.

Wissen ist Macht
Saturday, December 4th, 2004, 05:48 PM
I have talked to a few old folks who studied with Heinrich Himmler (all but one deceased by now). They confirmed that they all found him to be extremely odd. In the Munich fraternities Himmler was the butt of every joke and even the convent protocols of the Munich Waffenring confirm this quite drastically.
Quite interesting. Excuse my ignorance, but what was the Münchner Waffenring? A convent / Burschenschaft?

Edit:
Regarding Himmler's oddity I didn't mean to state that he was pretty normal in my previous post - I just tried to find a reason for people labelling him weirdo due to his occult affections! ;)

Dr. Solar Wolff
Sunday, December 5th, 2004, 01:39 AM
The Thule Society was a diverse bunch of people. Some had occult ideas such as Dietrich Eckhart for instance. Some did not and were most interested in the overthrow of the socialist governments then in Berlin and Munich. But let's leave the Thule people out of this discussion for now.

The Nazi party was a very, very diverse group of people, much more so than the Thule people. Beyond actually party operatives were consultants and advisors who may or may not have been actual party members but contributed to the philosophy of the part. Many of these types were close to Hitler and most, outside the military, had occult connections. Examples are Rudolf Hess, Prof. Karl Haushoffer, Heinrich Himmler, Reinhardt Heydrich, Viktor Schauberger, Karl Maria Willigutt, to name some. The Nazi Party was actually more diverse than the Ameircan Republican Party and within the Republican Party a major wing forms an occult influence group. We know them as the Christian Fundamentalists but one man's occult is simply another man's religion.

If anyone doubts the tremendous occult influence on Nazism, all that need be presented is Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg, the SS home-base. It is full of occult significance but all you have to see is the picture of the mosaic on the floor (basement) of the rotunda there. It is a stylized swastika in the form of the Black Sun---just like the diagram on Wissen ist Macht's avatar. This Black Sun was one unofficial religion within Nazi Germany, the others of course being the race and culture (blood and soil concept).

Dr. Solar Wolff
Sunday, December 5th, 2004, 07:13 AM
I just have to say this. There is so much more to the belief systems of Nazi Germany, both in what detractors call the occult and in their scientific and technical development than establishment historians give them credit for. There was an interaction between the two in certain instances. Within the last 15 years, Germans themselves have begun to explore this past yet most modern Germans seem indifferent to this vast resource of old-new knowledge. Now that Skadi is a Germanic forum, I hope these ideas will get a fair hearing, Because this too is Germanic Preservation and it not even limited to technical or cultural preservation, if one tale is correct, but racial preservation as well.

Wissen ist Macht
Sunday, December 5th, 2004, 10:55 AM
The Thule Society was a diverse bunch of people. Some had occult ideas such as Dietrich Eckhart for instance. Some did not and were most interested in the overthrow of the socialist governments then in Berlin and Munich. But let's leave the Thule people out of this discussion for now.

The Nazi party was a very, very diverse group of people, much more so than the Thule people. Beyond actually party operatives were consultants and advisors who may or may not have been actual party members but contributed to the philosophy of the part. Many of these types were close to Hitler and most, outside the military, had occult connections. Examples are Rudolf Hess, Prof. Karl Haushoffer, Heinrich Himmler, Reinhardt Heydrich, Viktor Schauberger, Karl Maria Willigutt, to name some. The Nazi Party was actually more diverse than the Ameircan Republican Party and within the Republican Party a major wing forms an occult influence group. We know them as the Christian Fundamentalists but one man's occult is simply another man's religion.

If anyone doubts the tremendous occult influence on Nazism, all that need be presented is Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg, the SS home-base. It is full of occult significance but all you have to see is the picture of the mosaic on the floor (basement) of the rotunda there. It is a stylized swastika in the form of the Black Sun---just like the diagram on Wissen ist Macht's avatar. This Black Sun was one unofficial religion within Nazi Germany, the others of course being the race and culture (blood and soil concept).

Dr. Solar Wolff,
I can only agree partly with this post of yours.
Sure, many national socialist leaders had occult interests and took place in occult practices and / or societies but the overall occult influence on national socialism is - IMHO - rather small.
True that the Wewelsberg had deep spiritual meaning - not for nothing it was ment to become the ideological and philosophical center of the Schutzstaffel. But I definetely stand opposed to your conclusion that the black sun was something like an unofficial religion because it simply was not known to anyone besides a handful of very high SS leaders and the Reichsführer as well as the personnel of the castle. I think that it could have become some kind of religion later on - at least in the SS - but as history took another course :( we will never know for sure...

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, December 6th, 2004, 04:29 AM
Dr. Solar Wolff,
I can only agree partly with this post of yours.
Sure, many national socialist leaders had occult interests and took place in occult practices and / or societies but the overall occult influence on national socialism is - IMHO - rather small.
True that the Wewelsberg had deep spiritual meaning - not for nothing it was ment to become the ideological and philosophical center of the Schutzstaffel. But I definetely stand opposed to your conclusion that the black sun was something like an unofficial religion because it simply was not known to anyone besides a handful of very high SS leaders and the Reichsführer as well as the personnel of the castle. I think that it could have become some kind of religion later on - at least in the SS - but as history took another course :( we will never know for sure...

I believe the 3rd Reich was a diverse place concering beliefs. One core belief was race as religion and as correlary, German culture and its folk link to the earth rather than city-life. This is the concept which NS in Germany actively preached. This is because it is really not hard to understand and can be accepted by almost everyone regardless of previous religious ideas.

Besides this there were other ideas. Willigut had his ideas which were promote and tolerated for awhile. Willigut had his particular brand of Odinism and staff to help him. The problem was he ran into another group, Karotecka, which was organized to research old arcane occult knowledge. They did and apparently were able to convince someone higher up in the NS system that their work could be used as a weapon. Hitler immediately fired Willigut and went with Karotecka. This SS group eventually became quite large and secret and some say survived the war and existed within post-war SS survival groups (although they were distrusted if not hated).

In some ways the work of Karotecka dovetails with the Black Sun concept as they both involved energy. It is even possible that the two systems, occult and physical science, were combined or where to be combined in a weapon.

The Black Sun is almost a religious concept but it is also a physical reality in our universe. It exists on so many levels. They all involve a vortex and what we call today a "torsion field". The vortex generates a field of energy. For instance, recently, we have learned that there is a mathematical relationship between the speed of the stars in the perifery of the gallaxy and the strength of the black hole (Black Sun) at it's center. The stronger the gravity shielding (my words) for the black hole, the faster the stars at the outer edge of the gallaxy rotate. The correlation is almost perfect.

Energy is drawn to the center of all vortices. No matter if it is air, water or energy, this energy must come out again, somewhere. In a bar magnet, for instance, energy spirals in at both poles and radiates out at the center of the magnet in what is called a Bloch Wall. Likewise, every vortex, tornado, hurrican, our solar system or our gallaxy re-radiates energy from its center. This energy is contained and is defined by its limits--the "field" of field energy.

For the Nazis and modern new energy researchers, this energy in question was aether energy or zero point energy. It is present in equal measure on all sides within the field. This energy can be absorbed and re-radiated by matter. I won't go into this now.

What is important historically, is this energy, is the basis for the two or perhaps three free energy devices developed or further developed during the 3rd Reich. Hans Coler claimed, for instance, that his device drew in "Raumenergie", space energy. (Use "Hans Coler" as search words for post-war British report on internet).

Viktor Schauberger had ideas about this energy's effectiveness on living things as well.

The big problem with the Black Sun concept is that it is a little difficult to explain. Therefore, only the elete Nazis were introduced to this knowledge, if they cared. Let's face it, some people are not interested in religion, physcal science or energy research. Since you don't pray to the Black Sun, there is no practical application of this knowledge in a person's daily life.

Can you see why this concept was not widely known and why the NS leadership would much rather go on with Blut und Boden rather than begin lecturing about die Schwarze Sonne during a war?

Phlegethon
Monday, December 6th, 2004, 10:35 AM
It seems some people on this forum are having a hard time telling facts from fiction. Goodrich-Clarke, E.R. Carmin, Trevor Ravenscroft all have that problem, too.

Feldherr
Sunday, January 30th, 2005, 04:19 PM
Hitler and the political Esoterik

The Germans engineers, whose work was fundamental for the building of those rockets, which up-sent the first artificial Satalliten into the sky, became by the leader of the NSDAP themselves prevented to finish the V2 at the intended time. General walter Dornberger led the attempts in Peenemuende, where the remote-controlled projectiles developed. One stopped these experiments, in order to submit the reports of the general to the Aposteln of the Hoerbiger cosmogony. Above all one wanted to experience, how the "eternal ice" would react in the world area and whether this rape of the stratosphere could involve not any disaster on earth. In its book "V2 - the shot in the universe" tells the general Dornberger that its work had to be interrupted somewhat later again for two months. The leader had dreamed that the V2 would not function or rather that the sky will raechen itself. This dream should have for the leading men of the third realm more weight than the opinion of the technicians

Behind the Germany of the science and the organization the spirit of the "old magic" was still alive.

This spirit is also today not yet dead.

In January 1958 Swedish engineer Robert arranged close-flows a Memorandium at the Academy of Sciences into new Yourk, in order to warn the USA before the astro+nautical experiments. Due to a famous inquiry the American Martin Gardner estimates the number in the year 1953 The trailer Hoerbigers in Germany, England and the USA on more than one million. In London H.S.Bellamy strives for thirty years around the acknowledgment of a Anthopologie, which draws the crash of three moons and the existence of giants in the secondary and in the Tertiary period in calculation. It was it also, after the war the Russians around permission asked to be allowed to undertake a Expidition on the Ararat on whose summits he hoped to discover the ark Noah.

The Tass Argentur published a categorical refusal of this request, which Soviets explained and stated the mental attitude Bellamys for fascist, such pseudoscientific movements is done to wake "dangerous forces".

In France de university professor and poet Denis sow advice have themselves to the advocate Bellamys.Raised, and the success of Velikovskys book "World in Collision" showed, how many humans are accessible also today still another to magic world view.

A Messiah should come:

Hitler is convinced in its frequent conditions mystischer intuition of it, That it is destined as the executor of this fate.

Its ambition and the mission, which it has to fulfill in its opinion, go the wide beyond range of the policy and Patriotismus.

He said even:

"the term of the nation became empty"

I had to still begin with him for time-historical reasons, but I was clear me from in front over the fact that this could stress only temporarily validity.......

One day will not come, on which of the landlaeufigen nationalism will have remained not much, also and Germans.

But an understanding between the differently speaking member the same, good gentleman race becomes available its.

The policy is only the outside manifestation, the practical for the instant valid application of a religious view of the life laws on earth and in the cosmos.

A fate is prescribed for mankind, which the usual people would not understand and whose sight they could not bear.

This understanding is only inaugurating reserved.

"politics" say Hitler, "are literally today the form of the fate"

That is Exoterik of the theory with the slogans, their social facts, their wars.

But there are also Esoterik........

Whom supported Hitler and its friends Hoerbiger, so, because they wanted into an attempt by force to undertake to arouse with the help of the science or also a pseudo-Wissenschaft the spirit of the "old times" again according to humans, the society and the universe the same laws are subjected and a mutual relationship between the meetings of the souls and those the Gestirne exist. The fight between ice and fire, from which the planets developed, to die and be again-born, takes place also in humans

That the basis of the thoughts of Hitler, as she saw also Rauschning:

"one understands Hitler's political will only on the background of its thoughts. Its preference for Horoskope and the nachtseiten of nature is connected with its conviction that humans with the universe are located in a magic connection."

It had already a deeper reason, if Hitler appointed his private--astro+lied the realm authorizing for mathematics, astronomy and physics.

Up to Hoerbiger and the Esoteriker the methods and even the ways changed certain degrees the science

The trailers Hoerbigers, which are capable according to their statement to forecast the weather on whole earth on months and even on years had prophesied a relatively mild winter.

But there was still another another reason: equal to the pupils of the world ice teachings Hitler was absolutely sure in his internal ones that he had closed a pact with cold weather and that the snow masses of the Russian levels would not stop it on its march.

Mankind would occur under its guidance the new cycle of the fire.

It had already begun.

The winter became back-soft before its putting ions, the carriers of the flame.

And during the leaders, had granted he dedicated otherwise completely special attention to the equipment of its troops the soldiers intended for the Russia campaign only a few ridiculous auxiliary pieces: a wollschal and a pair of gloves.

In December 1941 the thermometer fell suddenly on more than forty degrees under zero.

The forecasts had been wrongly, those prophecies had not proven to be true: the elements reared up, the stars in their course stopped with one times working for the fair thing.

Now the ice triumphierte over the fire.

The automated weapons failed, since the oil froze.

In the cans the synthetic gasoline under the effect of cold weather decomposed into two useless components.

Behind the front the locomotives froze

The men died in their uniform skirts and their simplest soldier boots.

Hitler refused believing in this first Zwiespalt between Mystik and reality.

General Guderian risked the joggle and perhaps even death, when he flew to Berlin, in order to refund and over a retreat instruction ask the leader over the layer report.

"cold weather is my thing", answered Hitler. "seizing it on!"

Which remained, had of the large army to finally turn around

When in the following summer the troops occupied the Caucasus, a strange ceremony took place.

Three SS mountain troops erkletterten the summit of the Elbrus, the holy mountain of the Arier, the center of old cultures, the magic summit of the sparkling wines, which "Luzifers" called itself friends.

There the swastika flag was go-eaten.

This flag consecration on the Elbrus should symbolize the incipient crack of a new age.

From now on the seasons the will of humans subject would be that fire would defeat thousands of years outside the ice.

The past year had brought a heavy disappointment, but that had been only a last examination before the trueful victory of the spirit.

And despite reports of the meteorological stations, the troops on Stalingrad tightened some still severer winter than the preceding prophesied, despite all threatening signs, in order to cut Russia into two parts.

But material humans, humans without fires, humans without religious underbody, with its Jewish liberal science, were it, who unfortunately cold weather and the ice came finally to the assistance and should triumphieren.

They unfortunately blew up the Hitler pact.

They had unfortunately the precedence to the magic.

After Stalingrad Hitler is unfortunately no more prophet

Its religion unfortunately breaks down.

Stalingrad is not alone military and political defeat.

The equilibrium of the mirror-image-ritual forces unfortunately changed.

The German newspapers appear with black edge of mourning, and the descriptions of the disaster, which they give, are still more terrible than the Russian Kommuniqes.

A general national mourning is arranged

But this mourning goes power it beyond the framework of the nation to "you clearly!" Goebbels writes

It is a thought, a whole world view, which are subject here. The mental forces are destroyed made, the hour of the court approaches."

Quelle:
Aufbruch ins Dritte Jahrtausend/
Departure in the third millenium
Lois Pauwels
Jacques Bergier
03/86



Hello comrade from the English speaking Skadi forum!

I have available here times try a text which I in the German speaking forum had already published to place to translated and you.

I hope my English am to be read, but better I can do it for the moment not!

Sorry!!!

Feldherr

Odin Biggles
Monday, January 31st, 2005, 12:34 AM
Nothing thats not been covered, but this link has a basic rundown on the subject, www.sumeria.net/politics/nazioccult.html

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, January 31st, 2005, 01:17 AM
The article posted by Feldherr has some intersting things mentioned in it. One of my favorites were the German mountain troops, (Gebirgesjager--spelled correctly?) These troops existed on several levels and even had SS mountain troops. The training was exhaustive and toward the end of the war, it was to be these troops which would have formed the defense around the Alpenfestung if it had happened. But Feldherr's post referrs to something that happend in the Caucasus Mountains, in the former Soviet Union.

For some strange reason, probably an occult reason, the German command decided it was necessary to capture the hightest mountain in Europe, Mt. Elbrus in the Caucasus (or maybe the hightest mountain in the Caucasus or Russia or whatever). This mountain was high, over 15,000 feet. The Germans had already determined through exerimentation and long mountain experience that troops could operate at that altitude but any real heavy activity at anything over 10,000 feet was something that could not be sustained by the human body. In other words, the body started declining rapidly doing soldier-type-activity at that altitude. Add to the the cold.

Another thing that should be added to this German operation to take the high point on Mt.Elbrus was the Soviets. When they became aware of the German desire to take this mountain, they threw in everything they had against them. Remember, this was not a military objective at all.

The fighting was man to man or small group against small group. No heavy mechanization could be brought up there to help. The fighting was expecially brutal and personal. The Germans did capture their objective but the Soviets repelled them from it as they repelled the German forces out of the Soviet Union. Heavy losses were suffered on both sides.

Another point which should be mentioned is Hans Hoerbiger and his Eislehre. This was a theory that the world, and indeed the whole universe was created and exists due to the struggle between heat and cold or Fire and Ice. Hoerbiger pre-dates the Nazis and it seems to me that they largely discounted him. There were theories such as this and the famous Hollow Earth theory which were accepted by some --even some in the political sphere, but were not accepted by the German scientists. For instance it is said that Peenemuende was shut down for three days while psudo-scientists tried to bounce radar signals off the other side of the world by aiming them upward, into space, at a 45 degree angle. This all makes sense if we were at the hollow core of the earth but we are not. Believe me, the guidence systems (there were many) of the V-1 and V-2 rockets did not contain any hollow earth ideas.

Eislehre does make a come-back in the discussion of Karl Schappeller's aether theory in which Cold is the prime-generator of energy---as screwy as this sounds, it all makes sense in the end. But this aether theory is perhaps the very hardest to understand of all aether theories.

Excuse me, Mt Elbrus is in the Ural Mountains.

Feldherr
Monday, January 31st, 2005, 08:06 PM
The earth is hollow.
We live in their inside.
The Gestirne is ice blocks.
Some moons already down-fell on earth.
Also the ours will fall. The whole history of mankind explains itself by the constant fight between glow and ice.
Humans are not completed yet. It stands before an outrageous transformation, which will lend those forces, which attributed the old persons to the Gods to it.
Some copies of new humans, which perhaps arrived over the borders of space and time away at us, live already on this earth.
A connection with the master of the world can be manufactured, with the king of the fear, to which somewhere in the Orient over an unknown city prevails.
Those, which are received this alliance, will change on thousands of years outside the face of the earth and to mankind history a new sense will lend.
So for instance the scientific theories and the religious terms, from which the developing nationalism fed itself, read to which Hitler and the members of its close circle believed and whom in considerable measures the social and political events of the recent time determined.
Such a statement may appear absurd.
An explanation of the present history, which at least partly proceeds from such ideas, may work repulsively.But I am the opinion that in the long run nothing can be repulsive, if it concerns the study of the truth.
One marks us to spirit enemies, said Hitler.Yes, that are we.
But in a many deeper sense, than these stupid-proud science citizens let themselves be only dreamed.My way is the way of the possibilities hidden in humans wakes. It is a way, which runs against nature and God.
Dr. Willy Ley, one of the largest experts in the area of the rocket technology, fled in the year 1933 from Germany.
By it erfahr one that before arising the national socialism in Berlin a small community existed briefly, which is for us from highest interest.
This secret company was literally based on the novel of an English writer: On Bulwer Lyttons "The Coming Race".
These citizens of Berlin society called themselves "the loge of the brothers of the light" or the "Vril society" the Vril is the epitome of that enormous energy, from which we use a tiny fraction in our usual life only, it is the symbol of our possible Gods.
Been promoted to the master of the Vril, at the same time gentleman over itself, over its fellow men and over the whole world becomes.
The loge of the brothers of the light had friends in the Theosophi society and under the groups of the rose cruisers.
As Jack Fishman, which reports authors of the interesting work "The Seven Men OF Spandau, belonged to Karl Haushofer of this society.
Everything these movements: those of the modern rose cruisers, which golden, were located to Dawn, the German Vril society and the Thule society (also the Haushofer, Hess and Hitler belonged) in connection with the powerful and well organized Theosophi society.
The Theosophie added the again heidnischen magic an eastern Habitus and a hinduistische terminology.
One can also say, her opened to a certain luziferischen Orient the ways in the evening country.
In scientific and technisierten Germany Hanns Hoerbiger with shouting and elbow impacts of illuminating, the irrational knowledge and the visions cleared a way.
It did not stand alone; it was only one the fighter of a powerful movement.
Hitler and Himmler had entrusted themselves to a astro+lied, although they guarded, to let this fact penetrate to the public.
The name of this astro+lied read Fuhrer.
Later, after the seizure of power, they dared to provoke it however, the scholars; it was, as if they wanted to state not alone their ruler will, but also their intention of changing "the life".
They appointed Fuhrer the "realm authorized person" for mathematics, astronomy and physics.

Quelle:
Aufbruch ins Dritte Jahrtausend/
Departure in the third millenium
Lois Pauwels
Jacques Bergier
03/86


With Respect
Feldherr

Siegmund
Monday, January 31st, 2005, 11:54 PM
Some copies of new humans, which perhaps arrived over the borders of space and time away at us, live already on this earth... to which Hitler and the members of its close circle believed... before arising the national socialism in Berlin a small community existed briefly...
Absolutely fascinating. I am personally very interested in these ideas but can't seem to find much written on them in English.

Think for a moment about how many films and television programs have picked up the idea of "new humans," everything from the old Prey, to the Species movies, to the new Battlestar Galactica. The theme is in the air, it's getting stronger, and I don't think it's a coincidence.

Here are some images along the lines of your post that predate the Third Reich and confirm its connection to the prevailing theosophical current. They are taken from the work of Hugo Hoppener (known as Fidus), who lived 1868-1948. More here (http://tallulahs.com/f1.html).

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30289&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30291&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30288&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30281&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30287&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30283&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30284&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30285&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30286&stc=1

Dr. Solar Wolff
Tuesday, February 1st, 2005, 02:33 AM
Absolutely fascinating. I am personally very interested in these ideas but can't seem to find much written on them in English.

Think for a moment about how many films and television programs have picked up the idea of "new humans," everything from the old Prey, to the Species movies, to the new Battlestar Galactica. The theme is in the air, it's getting stronger, and I don't think it's a coincidence.

Here are some images along the lines of your post that predate the Third Reich and confirm its connection to the prevailing theosophical current. They are taken from the work of Hugo Hoppener (known as Fidus), who lived 1868-1948. More here (http://tallulahs.com/f1.html).

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30289&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30291&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30288&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30281&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30287&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30283&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30284&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30285&stc=1 http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30286&stc=1

Hitler once spoke on the subject of der Uebermench (Superman). I read this in a book Die Thulegeschellschaft by Detlev Rose which I don't have in front of me here but Hitler was talking to a mayor of a city in Silesia whose name was Rauchling or something like this. Later on this man defected to the British and repeated the story which freaked out the Allies. Hitler began shaking when the subject of the superman came up and turned to Rauschling and said something like:

I have seen him. Isn't that enough for you? He is here among us (Hitler said "unter uns" which made me think of the hollow earth theory). He was frightful. I was afraid.

The novel, Virl the Coming Age or whatever it was called is so boring that I could only read half. It is set in a hollow earth and it actually did inspire the Viril Society into coming into existence so it has some historical value.

Siegmund
Tuesday, February 1st, 2005, 03:25 AM
I have seen him. Isn't that enough for you?
Amazing words. If memory serves, not even Irving documents words or events of this nature.

Feldherr
Tuesday, February 1st, 2005, 07:38 AM
Also am I convinces in many Science the Fiction films more reality puts nevertheless somewhere, than admitted. If one looks at oneself the films from the 70'Jahren today, most details already carried out themselves. I read for the moment very much over the Occulten relations and the high technologies of the third realm. Those are ranges at those still very much clearing-up to be made must. I have only actually always assume in the English language the more information am present.But also there very much is unfortunately concealed and put as improbable. I am rather sure me that many more happenings is than it us admits one gives. Sleep still as many documents under catch in the USA and England, which could possibly bring something light inside. But I think gradually we together into the darkness somewhat more lights will bring.

With Respect
Feldherr

Siegmund
Tuesday, February 1st, 2005, 12:18 PM
Also am I convinces in many Science the Fiction films more reality puts nevertheless somewhere, than admitted.
Film is already a preferred medium for acculturating people to the notions of multiculturalism, diversity, and low normative intelligence. It could also be used as a vehicle for ideas and actions that exalt the human spirit rather than debase it. Personally, I find science fiction programming to have a higher proportion of superior values than other film genres.

Feldherr
Tuesday, February 1st, 2005, 11:59 PM
There I give you quite, because in novels one can leave more free run to the fantasy. I meant only the fact that much became already reality which years ago was allegedly still impossible. I read for the moment the straight Trilogy of Wilhelm Landig and I must determine in these novels very much reality put. I am not also the view us everything erzaehlz become there, which really happened in the third realm. There still another quantity is documents under catch, which would know possibly or other secret air. But a daily the truth will turn out to the daylight and we will become everything to know which for high technologies and which at Occultismus in the third realm reality was and is!

With Respect Feldherr

Siegmund
Wednesday, February 2nd, 2005, 12:22 AM
But a daily the truth will turn out to the daylight and we will become everything to know which for high technologies and which at Occultismus in the third realm reality was and is!
I believe you are correct. But when? With the censorship laws in Germany and de facto censorhip elsewhere, those who have the knowledge must necessarily keep it hidden...

Deling
Thursday, September 29th, 2005, 01:30 AM
Hitler's regime was secular, the only occult was "making society into myth" in a way never seen before (because of the mass aspect of democratic societies).

If one look at the Soviet regime, its occult past is perhaps even worse. A.e: "Incarnators of God", a.s.o. Fact or fiction? Probably the latter, just in case of Third Reich.

Cole Nidray
Thursday, September 29th, 2005, 02:04 AM
The occult aspect is an attempt by those who don't understand race and nation to comprehend the Third Reich.

For the media's part it's kabbalahization to appeal to their own appreciation of deviancy and sensationalize the man, all the while ignoring the true message

They want people to think that only "dark forces" are able enough to do what Germany did in the 1930's..... "no racial nation could be that powerful....It was devil's work!":-O

Fenris
Thursday, September 29th, 2005, 02:53 AM
Interesting that earlier, Dr. Solar Wollf would mention "Karotecka," as until I'd read this thread I'd never heard of it mentioned with regards to the Third Reich outside of the Call of Cthulhu roleplaying game supplement Delta Green, which is all about modern day conspiracies based in the Mythos. One such conspiracy in said supplement is the Karotechia, an organisation led by ex-SS and other loyal members of the Reich, who follow the ghost of Hitler. The ghost of Hitler is in actuality just an aspect of Nyarlathotep, the Crawling Chaos, who is using the organisation, which includes a reanimated and zombified Dr. Josef Mengele, to destroy the world.

If said fictitious organisation actually had a real world origin, I'd be fascinated in reading about it, so if possible, Dr. Solar Wollf, would you elucidate upon your sources regarding the Karotecka?


The notion that Hitler possessed the Spear of Destiny was - in my opinion - propaganda, though I would not utterly rule out such a thing, as there is no incontrovertible proof to prove or debunk it.

The fact that Hitler actively worked against occult organisations - even pro-NS/anti-semitic ones - is a sad highlight of just how effectively the slave religion christianity has done to destroy elements of our ancient folkway, for the loathing of the occult touched even the mind of der Führer and led him to attack people who fully supported his aims. It highlights how anti-folk christianity is, and how much damage it is still capable of doing to this day (as even christian national socialists and racially-aware individuals are either critical of - or vehemently opposed to - our ancestral heritage with regards to the practice of magic or even just indigenous European religions without the element of magic).

Fenris
Thursday, September 29th, 2005, 02:54 AM
Egads, I appear to have misspelled Wolff's username twice. I apologise.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Thursday, September 29th, 2005, 03:56 AM
Fenris, I have no personal knowledge nor have done any research with confirms the existence of Karotechia. A friend sent me a print-out from the internet which turned out to be bogus and only the Delta Green game. This same friend insists that his two contacts from years ago, both SS men, verified to him that Karotechia existed. I don't know.

Deling
Thursday, September 29th, 2005, 02:10 PM
"The notion that Hitler possessed the Spear of Destiny was - in my opinion - propaganda, though I would not utterly rule out such a thing, as there is no incontrovertible proof to prove or debunk it."

The original Longinus' spear is long gone (if it ever existed), but that existing is said to have been made by emperor Konstantin from the nails Christ was crucified on. True or not I refuse to speculate about.

That spear, however, lies in the Vienna National museum, so Hitler sure could've got his hands on it. It's in fact an artifact that has been possessed by many Germanic warrior-kings, among others Charlemagne, so it was a convenient symbol for the new German lords - and it also, symbolically, is the tool of bane of Jesus the Jew...