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Tifilis
Friday, November 12th, 2004, 07:05 PM
I just want to see if you English speakers can understand Medieval Swedish, who is more closely related to English than todays Swedish is. This is a text from the Håtuna "games"("Hatwna leek") in the 13th century, where three Swedish dukes fought for power of the kingdom, one of them names duke Valdemar(Herotgh Wallemar).
The text was written in 1427 I think.

”The toko tha liws ok gingo thædhan.
Herogane soffwo bade mædhan ok lagho i thera sængh nakne.
Ther wider wordho the wakne, att dörren osakta up gik.
Hertogh Wallemar han fik en kiortil ok kom ther i.
Tha woro the inne meer æn tii ok haffdo thera swerd dragith.
Summi willo han huggit ok summi slagith
The skullo sik ther fangna giwa,
Swa frampt the willo lenger liffua.
Ther kom konungin, gangande nidher, styrnade öghom, hardla vreder.
”Mynnes jder nakot aff Hatwna leek?”

And some 11th century Swedish:
“Varthær lekari sagather, then sum mæth gighu gangar æller mæth fithlu far æller bambu, thaskal kvighu taka otamæ ok flytiæ up a bæsing.

I'll provide a transaltion later.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 04:23 AM
No. But, I cannot understand Anglo-Saxon (Beowulf), Middle English or Mark Twain's work either.

No Code
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 08:27 PM
If you consider the fact that japanese has no relation with english, its easier to understand than this nordic thing there...

Tifilis
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 08:40 PM
I'll translate. The text is about how duke Vlademar and his opponent is asleep and how they are getting arrested and fights. Duke Vlademar and his opponent, can't remeber the name, was inprisoned in a small room in Håtuna castle, and the king threw the key in the Håtuna lake. Me myself have been to Håtuna castle, really nice, lies in the Swedish town of Nyköping.

The toko tha liws ok gingo thædhan.
They took the lifes and went (gone) (?)(to sleep peraps)
Herogane soffwo bade mædhan ok lagho i thera sængh nakne.
The gentlemens slept both during and layed in their beds naked.
Ther wider wordho the wakne, att dörren osakta up gik.
The wide was the awakening, that the door went up (That sounds relly strange, but it's Medieval Swedish grammar)
Hertogh Wallemar han fik en kiortil ok kom ther i.
Duke Valdemar he got a kiortil(?) and come there in.
Tha woro the inne meer æn tii ok haffdo thera swerd dragith.
They was there inside more than they and hade their swords dragged(pulled) (Probobly means that there came soldiers into the room who outnumbered them)
Summi willo han huggit ok summi slagith
Many will he cut down and many beaten (Summi = many)
The skullo sik ther fangna giwa,
The should seek their fagna(?) give,
Swa frampt the willo lenger liffua.
Swa (?) from the will longer lift.
Ther kom konungin, gangande nidher, styrnade öghom, hardla vreder.
Their came the king, walking angerly, angry eyes, hard wrists.
”Mynnes jder nakot aff Hatwna leek?”
"Planning to get naked through the Håtuna games?"

It doesn't relly make sence..

Tifilis
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 08:42 PM
This text from the 16th century from the First book of Mose in the Bible (don't know the chapter)

Tanck vppå Sabbaths daghen, att tu helghar honom. Sex daghar skalt tu arbeta, och göra alla tina gerning. Men på siwnde daghenom, är Herren tins Gudz Sabbath, tå skalt tu intit arbete göra, ey heller tin son, ey heller tijn dotter, ey heller tin tienare, ey heller tijn tiernarinna, ey heller tin öök, ey heller tin fremling. Som innan tins stadz port är. Ty vith sex daghar haffuer Herren giort himmel, och iord och haffuet och whad ther inne är, och whilande på siwnde dahhenom. Ther före welsignadhe Herren Sabbaths daghen, och helgadhe honom.

Oskorei
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 08:57 PM
I'll translate. The text is about how duke Vlademar and his opponent is asleep and how they are getting arrested and fights. Duke Vlademar and his opponent, can't remeber the name, was inprisoned in a small room in Håtuna castle, and the king threw the key in the Håtuna lake. Me myself have been to Håtuna castle, really nice, lies in the Swedish town of Nyköping.

The toko tha liws ok gingo thædhan.
They took the lifes and went (gone) (?)(to sleep peraps)
Thaedan might be either "sedan", meaning afterwards, or hädan (gingo hädan=die). I guess sedan fits best with the storyline.




Herogane soffwo bade mædhan ok lagho i thera sængh nakne.
The gentlemens slept both during and layed in their beds naked.
Ther wider wordho the wakne, att dörren osakta up gik.
The wide was the awakening, that the door went up (That sounds relly strange, but it's Medieval Swedish grammar)
My guess: They both woke up, cause the door was slowly opened.


Hertogh Wallemar han fik en kiortil ok kom ther i.
Duke Valdemar he got a kiortil(?) and come there in.
kiortil=kjortel=a sort of clothes. Probably the duke got into his clothes.




Tha woro the inne meer æn tii ok haffdo thera swerd dragith.
They was there inside more than they and hade their swords dragged(pulled) (Probobly means that there came soldiers into the room who outnumbered them)
Summi willo han huggit ok summi slagith
Many will he cut down and many beaten (Summi = many)
The skullo sik ther fangna giwa,
The should seek their fagna(?) give,
fangna=fångna=captives, I guess. They were told to surrender basically.



Swa frampt the willo lenger liffua.
Swa (?) from the will longer lift.
Ther kom konungin, gangande nidher, styrnade öghom, hardla vreder.
Their came the king, walking angerly, angry eyes, hard wrists.
”Mynnes jder nakot aff Hatwna leek?”
"Planning to get naked through the Håtuna games?"

It doesn't relly make sence..
I'm impressed by your translation though, you obviously know more about this language than most native-born :thumbsup

Tifilis
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 09:02 PM
Tack ;)

Jo kanske så. Det är intressant att sitta och läsa gammal svenska. Man finner stora likheter med engelskan.

As you might see, Swedish is close to Engish, at least older fashioned Swedish :) .

Tifilis
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 09:14 PM
A tip on how too understand these texts for you Swedes is to think of them like English. In Medieval Swedish, many words where still used who isn't around anymore. Like "winduv" = window(They still say vinduv in Norwegian as far as I know).

But English and Swedish started to go their own ways. English got Latinizied by Romance invaders and Swedish got Germanizied by German merchants (the Hanseatic league) and noblemens. But the languages still got great similiarites, almost all words are the same, just spelled diffrently.
The most basic
Swedish - English
Hava Have
Giva Give
Under Under
Över Over
Väl Well
Sej(säg) Say

Etc etc etc

Dr. Solar Wolff
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 07:15 AM
This brings up an interesting question for me. Perhaps you guys saw the movie "The 13th Warrior" in English. In that movie the Vikings start off with a presumed Norse language which slowly changes to English. For instance, as they are picking warriors by number to go on this little quest, the words for the first-man, second-man, etc. were very similar to German. Was this a real language or just something Hollywood made up?

Julius
Thursday, November 18th, 2004, 06:04 AM
Fortunately we have no voice synchronising (dubbing) of foreign movies. Most people prefer real acting and Swedish subtitles. :) I believe it is one reason Scandinavians understand English quite well.

The actors in The 13th Warrior spoke Norwegian and Danish and sometimes used Swedish words. But I'm note sure about the scene when they are picking warriors. I remember the counting sounded German. It might have been Old Norse or Icelandic?

Dr. Solar Wolff
Thursday, November 25th, 2004, 07:02 AM
I had the conversation once: Which is closer to English German or Swedish with a Swede and a German. The Swede gave me various words in Swedish and they did sound close to English. But spoken, modern Swedish is something I cannot understand at all. I gave the Swede:

Ick kann schimm aber dat Water ist zu kalt. ----my best Low German
Ich kann schwimmen aber das Wasser ist zu kalt.--my best High German
I can swim but that water is too cold.-------------my best English


I won the argument.

Tifilis
Thursday, November 25th, 2004, 07:14 PM
I had the conversation once: Which is closer to English German or Swedish with a Swede and a German. The Swede gave me various words in Swedish and they did sound close to English. But spoken, modern Swedish is something I cannot understand at all. I gave the Swede:

Ick kann schimm aber dat Water ist zu kalt. ----my best Low German
Ich kann schwimmen aber das Wasser ist zu kalt.--my best High German
I can swim but that water is too cold.-------------my best English


I won the argument.

Jag kan simma men det vattnet är för kallt?
Är = are
Directly translated: I can swim but that water is for cold. We say "for"(för) instead of "too".

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, November 26th, 2004, 08:32 AM
Jag kan simma men det vattnet är för kallt?
Är = are
Directly translated: I can swim but that water is for cold. We say "for"(för) instead of "too".

OK. How about Old Swedish for this sentence?