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Gentilis
Thursday, October 28th, 2004, 06:01 PM
At the genetic level self-sacrifice (altruistic behaviour) has been shown to be a good strategy for ensuring the continued survival of the same genes in other members of the same group -- provided there a critical mass big enough to compensate for the loss. Perhaps the same sort of mechanism once held true for chivalry before we lost the critical mass to sustain it?

We are without a doubt the most altruistic race on the planet -- argueably to our own detriment. We are responsible for the creation of just about every modern humanitarian instituion on the planet. Could there be a genetic explanation as to why altruism continues to defy the need for preservation amongst whites? What was it about early Christianity, before it became profoundly entangled with hegemony, that resonated so profoundly with our ancestors -- instead of the semite populations from where it originated?

Are we now the hapless victims of an altruism gene turned against us? Consider the fact that we adopt more children outside of our own race than any other race on the planet. Are we doomed to extinction like the human equivalents of the host bird species exploited by the cuckoos and the cowbirds?

(http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arc98/5_30_98/bob1.htm)

Indeed why do we continue to neglect and even penalise our own whilst allocating huge resources to other races -- might I add without ever expecting them to reciprocate should the tide eventually turn against us?

Who will care twenty years from now if my children can't find decent work because Third World tribal structures have gone mainstream and non-whites, through unbridled immigration and high birth rates, get the demographic advantage and impose an anti-white stranglehold on government policy?

Jack
Friday, October 29th, 2004, 03:43 AM
I doubt it's genetic. Social power relations and the products of them have far more to do with it. That is, blame the education system and the tolerance morality. Europeans had no problem facing off the Huns and the Muslims in France, and they were Christians.

Gentilis
Friday, October 29th, 2004, 02:09 PM
I doubt it's genetic. Social power relations and the products of them have far more to do with it. That is, blame the education system and the tolerance morality. Europeans had no problem facing off the Huns and the Muslims in France, and they were Christians.
Altruism is not the same thing as pacifism. European history is rife with examples of wars and conquest. I would even go so far as to say that altruism -- the act of self-sacrifice for the good of your community -- is an essential quality of the warriors Forget all the propaganda about power, ideology, glory and bloodlust, warfare is nothing more than a strategy for the survival and propagation of genes.

Whites had done very well for themselves by conquest and warfare, colonizing the far reaches of the globe like no other race ever before. Then suddenly -- BAM! -- rapid decline, loss of territory and resources eventually leading to the reverse-colonization of hut dwellers from the Third Word into the heart of Europe.

What happened? Where were all our warriors to defend our gene pool from the invading masses?

Well, they hadn't deserted us and altruism hadn't failed us either -- the simple fact of the matter is that on a intellectual, cognitive level the rules had change. Our competitors in the gene game became subjects and even citizens of the state and in this respect became us in the eyes of the law. Like the cuckoo or a rhinovirus, they 'flew under the radar', bypassed our defenses and found a way to exploit and pervert all the altruistic tendencies our civilization once reserved for the propagation of our own genes.

And while it is the accepted practices in western nations to consider them part of us, I can most fervently assure you that they don't consider us part of them. Any white person with personal insights into the mentality of Third World expatriates/diasporas will tell you no different. It is socially acceptable for them to preserve their cultural and genetic distinctiveness, while we are reduced to a supporting role -- sacrificing our heritage for their benefit. I live in a hyper-multicultural environment where refugees and immigrants are coddled to the point where they are openly contemptuous of whites (personal anecdotes upon request). And can you blame them? If whites don't respect themselves, why should they?

Tore
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 06:47 AM
At the genetic level self-sacrifice (altruistic behaviour) has been shown to be a good strategy for ensuring the continued survival of the same genes in other members of the same group

And yet you write below...


We are without a doubt the most altruistic race on the planet

Clearly, if Whites were indeed the most altruistic race, than most Whites would tend more to the survival of their ingroup genetic relatives (i.e. other Whites).

As it is, Mongoloids, and not Whites, are the most altruistic race. For example, contrast the cooperative, group-oriented societies of East Asia to Western society, which is much more individualistic and competitive.

Altruism is closely related to the personality factor of agreeableness, which is inversely correlated to testosterone levels, by which East Asians have less of than Whites.

The reason as to why East Asian societies are typically conservative and xenophobic relates to Caucasoid-Mongoloid differences in the trait of Field Dependence (Field dependence is an inverse correlate of Openness to Experience, which in turn, is inversely correlated to ethnocentrism and postively correlated to political liberalism).

Gentilis
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 07:16 PM
Clearly, if Whites were indeed the most altruistic race, than most Whites would tend more to the survival of their ingroup genetic relatives (i.e. other Whites).
...unless, as I pointed out, these tendencies have been manipulated by our anti-white elites to encompass other races to our own detriment.



As it is, Mongoloids, and not Whites, are the most altruistic race. For example, contrast the cooperative, group-oriented societies of East Asia to Western society, which is much more individualistic and competitive.
You are confusing altruism with compliance and orderliness.

Altruism is the unselfish concern for the welfare of others. Asian societies, in contrast to ours, are based on the wholesale exploitation of the masses. Harldy the same thing.

Asians have a saying that roughly translates: "the nail that stands up needs to be hammered down". Ask yourself: do Asians workers benefit from collective bargaining? What sort of social benefits do they have compared to western societies? For every altruistic institution invented by Asians you can come up with, I can confidently cite a greater number invented by Whites (including, but not limited to such disparate things as public libraries, modern hospitals, humanitarian NGOs, free presses, industrial and public safety standards, centres of higher learning etc... )



Altruism is closely related to the personality factor of agreeableness, which is inversely correlated to testosterone levels, by which East Asians have less of than Whites.
If that were true the martial arts would not have evolved to such a high level in East Asian cultures.

Asians societies are hyper-feudal in nature and are not founded on agreeableness. Consensus is imposed and enforced by strict codes of conduct -- and they are decidely anti-altruistic.

Had the events of the Tiananmen Square taken place in a Western country, there would have been shock and outrage, but for the Asians this sort of brutal repression is par for the course.

A case in point, the Samurai. They were not altruistic, nor were they consensus builders -- they were brutal instruments of repression, and not against foreigners, but their own people. The spirit of the Samurai still exists in modern day Japan. If the company president doesn't touch his tea during a board meeting, nobody else is allowed to either -- even if they are dying of thirst. (Not very altruistic in my opinion.)

This sort of behaviour is not limited to Japan either.

In Korea students routinely clash with riot police and with a ferocity not even found amongst soccer hooligans in Europe. (So much for myth of being agreeable.)

According to Amnesty International documents, China executes almost 10,000 of its own people every year -- a staggering number which would be unacceptabe if such a practice was applied to Western nations.

The Asian Pacific Rim achieved economic power in the latter part of the 20th century through the mass exploitation of its human capital and the wanton disregard of human rights and human dignity. There is nothing remotely altruistic about the practices of the East Asian Tigers.

In spite of the corrupting influence of the Jew, altruism remains to this day the strongpoint of Western Civilization.

AryanKrieger
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 07:22 PM
At the genetic level self-sacrifice (altruistic behaviour) has been shown to be a good strategy for ensuring the continued survival of the same genes in other members of the same group -- provided there a critical mass big enough to compensate for the loss. Perhaps the same sort of mechanism once held true for chivalry before we lost the critical mass to sustain it?

We are without a doubt the most altruistic race on the planet -- argueably to our own detriment. We are responsible for the creation of just about every modern humanitarian instituion on the planet. Could there be a genetic explanation as to why altruism continues to defy the need for preservation amongst whites? What was it about early Christianity, before it became profoundly entangled with hegemony, that resonated so profoundly with our ancestors -- instead of the semite populations from where it originated?

Are we now the hapless victims of an altruism gene turned against us? Consider the fact that we adopt more children outside of our own race than any other race on the planet. Are we doomed to extinction like the human equivalents of the host bird species exploited by the cuckoos and the cowbirds?

(http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arc98/5_30_98/bob1.htm)

Indeed why do we continue to neglect and even penalise our own whilst allocating huge resources to other races -- might I add without ever expecting them to reciprocate should the tide eventually turn against us?

Who will care twenty years from now if my children can't find decent work because Third World tribal structures have gone mainstream and non-whites, through unbridled immigration and high birth rates, get the demographic advantage and impose an anti-white stranglehold on government policy?

This is not altruism but brainwashing on behalf of xtianity, a tool of the international Zionist to make us weak and decadent.

Gentilis
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 08:55 PM
This is not altruism but brainwashing on behalf of xtianity, a tool of the international Zionist to make us weak and decadent.
What is a dog, if not a wolf that has had its natural talents for the hunt turned against himself...

It is not so much a case of brainwashing as it is the exploitation and manipulation of inherent qualities.

Tore
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 10:11 PM
You are confusing altruism with compliance and orderliness.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Agreeableness and conscientiousness are also positive correlates of one another (hence the emergence of the psychoticism personality facet).


Asian societies, in contrast to ours, are based on the wholesale exploitation of the masses. Harldy the same thing.

What happened to the "anti-White elites" you spoke of earlier?;)

How do you define "exploitation"?

East Asian societies tend to distribute their wealth much more equitably than the West. Thus, this exploitation you alledge cannot pertain to economics...


Asians have a saying that roughly translates: "the nail that stands up needs to be hammered down".

Therefore reiterating the group-oriented (altruistic) nature of Mongoloids, as the cohesiveness of a group predicates upon the conformity of its members.


Ask yourself: do Asians workers benefit from collective bargaining? What sort of social benefits do they have compared to western societies? For every altruistic institution invented by Asians you can come up with, I can confidently cite a greater number invented by Whites (including, but not limited to such disparate things as public libraries, modern hospitals, humanitarian NGOs, free presses, industrial and public safety standards, centres of higher learning etc... )

As I said earlier, East Asian societies distribute their wealth in a more equitable manner than the West, as it best promotes the collective good.


If that were true the martial arts would not have evolved to such a high level in East Asian cultures.

And yet...

"The races also differ in testosterone level which helps to explain men's behavior. In one study of college students, testosterone levels were 10 to 20% higher in Blacks than in Whites. For an older sample of U.S. military veterans, Blacks had levels 3% higher than Whites (see the 1992 issue of Steroids). In a study of university students, Black Americans had 10 to 15% higher levels than White Americans. The Japanese (in Japan) had even lower levels. Testosterone acts as a "master switch." It affects things like self-concept, aggression, altruism, crime, and sexuality, not just in men, but in women too. Testosterone also controls things like muscle mass and the deepening of the voice in the teenage years(Rushton, 1994)"

http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/Race_Evolution_Behavior.pdf.


In Korea students routinely clash with riot police and with a ferocity not even found amongst soccer hooligans in Europe. (So much for myth of being agreeable.)

Indeed, altruism correlates inversely to criminal activity (which detracts from the overall success of the group).

Need I prove that Mongoloids commit crimes at a rate much lower than that of Whites, even when the two groups live in the same society?

Gentilis
Friday, November 5th, 2004, 05:32 AM
Agreeableness and conscientiousness are also positive correlates of one another (hence the emergence of the psychoticism personality facet).
Which proves nothing.

Selfish, inconsiderate behaviour can also bring about compliance and orderliness -- just ask any person involved in a hostage situation.



What happened to the "anti-White elites" you spoke of earlier? ;) They are still busy at work practicing the politics of exclusion through various reverse discrimination policies. ;(

(Real Media)
http://www.hrma-agrh.gc.ca/ec-fpac/video/Eng_rmDSL.rm

(Windows Media)
http://www.hrma-agrh.gc.ca/ec-fpac/video/Eng_wmvDSL.wmv




How do you define "exploitation"?
To make unethical use of someone for personal gain or profit.



East Asian societies tend to distribute their wealth much more equitably than the West. Thus, this exploitation you alledge cannot pertain to economics... Are you familiar with the term "Karoshi"? Its a social phenonmenon in Japan -- it literally means "death from overwork". And yes, this form of exploitation most decidedly pertains to economics.



Therefore reiterating the group-oriented (altruistic) nature of Mongoloids, as the cohesiveness of a group predicates upon the conformity of its members. You talk plenty about cohesion and conformity, but you have yet to provide a single example of altruism.



As I said earlier, East Asian societies distribute their wealth in a more equitable manner than the West, as it best promotes the collective good. Nonsense. Yunnan doesn't see a fraction of the wealth of Hong Kong.

I've seen images of the modern poor in China living admist heaps of electronic junk, using makeshift hotplates to extract lead from circuit boards. I've seen workers burning their lungs out with caustic fumes in unregulated wig factories that bleach black hair from the Indian sub-continent into stylish blond wigs.



And yet...

"The races also differ in testosterone level which helps to explain men's behavior. In one study of college students, testosterone levels were 10 to 20% higher in Blacks than in Whites. For an older sample of U.S. military veterans, Blacks had levels 3% higher than Whites (see the 1992 issue of Steroids). In a study of university students, Black Americans had 10 to 15% higher levels than White Americans. The Japanese (in Japan) had even lower levels. Testosterone acts as a "master switch." It affects things like self-concept, aggression, altruism, crime, and sexuality, not just in men, but in women too. Testosterone also controls things like muscle mass and the deepening of the voice in the teenage years(Rushton, 1994)" TV also affects things like self-concept, aggression, altruism, crime, and sexuality.

And what does eastern philosphy and religion have to say about altruism? Consider the following...

"Any thought of self-betterment or benefit from an altruistic act is not considered virtuous, desirable, or even acceptable, because it goes against the fundamental teaching of dana paramita, or 'the virtue of giving'." (Kalupahana, 1992)



Indeed, altruism correlates inversely to criminal activity (which detracts from the overall success of the group).

Need I prove that Mongoloids commit crimes at a rate much lower than that of Whites, even when the two groups live in the same society? Why bother? Altruism can be made to correlate inversely with all manner of things. Yours is a specious argument.

You have yet to give me a single altruistic institution invented by Asians.

Tore
Friday, November 5th, 2004, 06:50 AM
Which proves nothing.

Same could be applied to your numerous subjective 'observations' and (improper) use of anomalies to advance your argument, such as:

"Selfish, inconsiderate behaviour can also bring about compliance and orderliness -- just ask any person involved in a hostage situation."

and

"I've seen images of the modern poor in China living admist heaps of electronic junk, using makeshift hotplates to extract lead from circuit boards. I've seen workers burning their lungs out with caustic fumes in unregulated wig factories that bleach black hair from the Indian sub-continent into stylish blond wigs."


Are you familiar with the term "Karoshi"? Its a social phenonmenon in Japan -- it literally means "death from overwork". And yes, this form of exploitation most decidedly pertains to economics.

Yes, we've established that East Asians are conscientiousness.

So, to clarify, conscientiousness and agreeableness are the same thing when you wish to advance your argument, but are entirely different when I attempt to advance mine.

Very consistent!


You talk plenty about cohesion and conformity, but you have yet to provide a single example of altruism.

The example I provided involved the White-Mongoloid crime rate disparity, which you ignored.

Again, I can provide statistics if you're interested.


Nonsense. Yunnan doesn't see a fraction of the wealth of Hong Kong.

Again, you resort to anomalies.


TV also affects things like self-concept, aggression, altruism, crime, and sexuality.

Yeah, racial differences must be cultural in origin. :D


And what does eastern philosphy and religion have to say about altruism? Consider the following...

Ever considered that culture might be an expression of the innate (thus genetic) tendencies of a people?


Why bother? Altruism can be made to correlate inversely with all manner of things.

Replace "altruism" with "intelligence" and Gould would be forced to sue you for plagarism (if he were still living that is).

Gentilis
Friday, November 5th, 2004, 01:13 PM
Yes, we've established that East Asians are conscientiousness.


Altruisim is defined as "the tendency to act in ways that benefit other individuals more than oneself, sometimes even where there is a real cost involved to the giver. "

What benefit does a company, the employee's spouce, their offsprings and the society as a whole derive from Karoshi?

Karoshi is not altruism. The losses outweigh the gains. Rather, it is exploitation, pure and simple.



Ever considered that culture might be an expression of the innate (thus genetic) tendencies of a people?

My point exactly.

I've given you plenty of concrete examples dealing with the cultural manifestation of innate tendencies within European and East Asian societies, but you consistently refuse to acknowledge them -- calling them subjective and anomalous.

How many more examples do you need?

Conversely, you have yet to cite a single altruistic institution or practice originating in East Asia.