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View Full Version : Police Use of Deception is Legal



Gareth Lee Hunter
Thursday, January 31st, 2019, 05:29 PM
About three weeks ago, a gas company utility truck stopped across from our home and a man and woman attired as gas company employees persistently knocked on our porch door until I reluctantly answered it. They claimed they were with a company contracted by our gas company surveying the area for gas line replacement work. He then insisted they be allowed to enter our home to determine where our wastewater clean-out was located.

I was skeptical of their intentions, but the gas company had been busy chalking our street for pipe line detection. But I had no idea why my sewage line was involved.

However, just out of curiosity, because I didn't feel threatened by them, I told them to meet me at our locked patio gate and led them from there to our basement where I directed them to our clean-out location while they both suspiciously looked all around my basement until they appeared to satisfy their interest in my private property. They then politely thanked me for my time, and quietly made their departure.

Because of this peculiar incident, I performed a bit of research on the matter of police evading the necessity of obtaining a search warrant or having probable cause to enter a private dwelling by deceptive means. And, apparently LE agencies are legally permitted to violate our 4th Amendment right to conduct these furtive searches now.

Frankly, I think this ruling is BS.


"Trespass and Deception
Laurent Sacharoff
ABSTRACT

Police routinely use deception to get into peopleís homes withoutwarrant or probable cause. They may pose as UPS delivery persons orhomebuyers, or they may say they are looking for a kidnapping victim or apedophile, when really they are looking for drugs or guns. Recent years havebrought hundreds of reported decisions concerning such police ruses.

When the police lie about their identity or their purpose to enter ahome, as when they pose as a homebuyer, the courts surprisingly, butroutinely, approve these deceptions under the Fourth Amendment. Suchintrusions, the courts reason, do not violate a personís reasonableexpectation of privacy and therefore do not even trigger FourthAmendment protection.

But the Supreme Court has announced a new FourthAmendment test based on the civil law of trespass, and this new testpromises to provide more Fourth Amendment protection againstpolice deception. Now, under United States v. Jones and Florida v.Jardines, any time the police trespass to gain information, theytrigger Fourth Amendment protections.

Although Jones and Jardines did not involve police deception, thisArticle applies, for the first time, the police trespass rule stated in thesecases to police deception cases. It makes the claim that the new trespasstest should change the outcomes in the leading police deception cases.After all, these deceptive intrusions would otherwise count as trespassesabsent consent, and under ordinary trespass principles deception vitiatesconsent. Without consent, the intrusion counts as a civil trespass andtriggers Fourth Amendment protection."

Peruse the entire PDF File:

https://digitalcommons.law.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2975&context=lawreview

Elizabeth
Thursday, January 31st, 2019, 06:48 PM
They could have been burglars pretending to be gas people.

I've had a man claiming to be from the water company show up, wanted access to my landord's locked backyard because he thought there was another water meter back there. I knew there wasn't and told him so. I don't think he was from the water company. Only my landlord could give him access to the backyard and he and his wife weren't home. They had locked their backyard because someone stole tools from their tool shed. And twice a man from the phone company unexpectedly arrived to check my phone line. I know of only one time the landlord let in utility workers and that was because the electrical transformer in the backyard blew up. I did have a problem with gas leaking and kept the gas valve shut off when not in use. I lived in a studio apartment that was part of the house.

At another place I lived, the gas company arrived and wanted access to the basement. I had never been in the basement. The gas company guy was freaked out by something in the basement and acted terrified when my landlord showed up. My landlord then was a funeral director (undertaker). I had high water bills from that place. The city said there must be leak in the pipes underground. After I moved away I was still getting high water bills from them. I also had a gas leak from the gas stove/oven. The pilot light would often go out, so I got in the habit of turning off the gas valve. There was also an electrical problem there and the firemen told me I should move. I was living in a duplex then, the owner/landlord lived on one side, I lived on the other side.

Where I live now, in an apartment, I've had water and sewage line problems. And the smoke detector keeps going off. The landlord knows it needs a new battery. Luckily I don't have gas here, so that's something to not worry about. I've had a few random people knocking on the door asking for people that don't live here, the police when I was a witness in a shooting in my neighborhood, and Jehovah Witnesses. And recently a guy claiming to be from AT&T was at my door. I don't have AT&T and I don't want it.

Gareth Lee Hunter
Thursday, January 31st, 2019, 08:12 PM
They could have been burglars pretending to be gas people.

Believe me, that possibility, however remote, as in this case, is always my first consideration whenever a stranger comes around. But our security system monitors all such activity on our property. And we're both either armed, or have immediate access to firearms.

Besides their display of photo ID badges, these two were just too neat, and professional in appearance to be gas company employees. They both possessed the authoritative demeanor of LEOs.

I strongly suspect why I might be under police surveillance. And it has to do with the social events we host. Numerous guests parking nice vehicles in our street and driveway tend to attract suspicion from nosy neighbors who notify the police that we're dealing drugs, for example.

Also, I attracted Federal ATF attention due to a double murder, including the death of a local LEO when it was discovered I used to own the pistol used as the murder weapon; even though I was cleared of any wrongdoing in this case.

SpearBrave
Friday, February 1st, 2019, 12:28 AM
If you want I can explain this whole thing with the sewer line and gas replacement. You live in a area with Vectren gas as your natural gas provider. Vectren has had problems with a issue called "cross boring", this issue is caused when direction boring new gas lines through sewer lines. When the sewer line gets clogged the practice to clean the sewer is to use a rooter which cuts the gas line and natural gas fills the sewer system and all the houses and it could explode the whole neighborhood. They needed to see your clean out to know where your sewer line runs so they don't hit it. I could go into more details, but that would be boring.....pun intended. ;)

Don't ask how I know these things, cause all I can say it's not easy being fat and cheesy. :D

Elizabeth
Friday, February 1st, 2019, 12:48 AM
Besides their display of photo ID badges, these two were just too neat, and professional in appearance to be gas company employees.


After reading SpearBrave's post I'm sure the two people at your house really were gas company employees. If I were you I'd call or write the gas company to compliment their very neat and professional appearance. They probably deserve a raise. :)

Gareth Lee Hunter
Friday, February 1st, 2019, 01:01 AM
If you want I can explain this whole thing with the sewer line and gas replacement. You live in a area with Vectren gas as your natural gas provider. Vectren has had problems with a issue called "cross boring", this issue is caused when direction boring new gas lines through sewer lines. When the sewer line gets clogged the practice to clean the sewer is to use a rooter which cuts the gas line and natural gas fills the sewer system and all the houses and it could explode the whole neighborhood. They needed to see your clean out to know where your sewer line runs so they don't hit it. I could go into more details, but that would be boring.....pun intended. ;)

Don't ask how I know these things, cause all I can say it's not easy being fat and cheesy. :D

You're right, of course, about the gas company hiring contractors to locate and replace gas lines in our area. But the two 'utility workers' that came to our home really didn't seem to know what they were doing concerning gas pipes and sewage lines. And, even though I restricted their snooping to the utility section of our basement, what a convenient opportunity the gas line project provided for LE to perform a bit of snooping in a private residence without the hassle of first obtaining a search warrant.

SpearBrave
Friday, February 1st, 2019, 01:16 AM
You're right, of course, about the gas company hiring contractors to locate and replace gas lines in our area. But the two 'utility workers' that came to our home really didn't seem to know what they were doing concerning gas pipes and sewage lines. And, even though I restricted their snooping to the utility section of our basement, what a convenient opportunity the gas line project provided for LE to perform a bit of snooping in a private residence without the hassle of first obtaining a search warrant.

After working with and consulting with different underground utility companies these last 3 to 4 years, I will say most the guys may seem awkward but they mean you no harm, they are just being safe. The guys they send door to door generally wear cleaner uniforms.

Herr Rentz
Friday, February 1st, 2019, 01:49 AM
No one, for whatever reason, gets into my home without a warrant.

If a utility person comes around (which has never happened) their home office would receive a call verifying their need to be on the property. They would be escorted by an armed me and a very suspicious German Shepherd Dog.